On 23/11/13 18:17, Greg Freemyer wrote: [SNIP]

To install any operating system you need to boot up into a dedicated boot environment.

Why, exactly? Say I am running oS 12.3 and have a spare partition, why shouldn't it be possible to execute a program in the running 12.3 system which does a 1st stage install into the spare partition and updates the bootloader? At the next boot, you can then choose to boot to the new installation and complete the install from there... Dx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 23/11/13 20:55, Togan Muftuoglu wrote:

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"Dylan" == Dylan writes:

Dylan> On 23/11/13 18:17, Greg Freemyer wrote: Dylan> [SNIP]

>> To install any >> operating system you need to boot up into a dedicated boot >> environment. >>

Dylan> Why, exactly? Say I am running oS 12.3 and have a spare partition, Dylan> why shouldn't it be possible to execute a program in the running Dylan> 12.3 system which does a 1st stage install into the spare partition Dylan> and updates the bootloader? At the next boot, you can then choose Dylan> to boot to the new installation and complete the install from Dylan> there...

If I understand correctly what you are looking for is setupgrupforinstall

Unfortunately, you do not understand. Remember this is a newbie who wants the latest opensuse. A newbie who has no other PC hardware or facilities to clone anything. I recently assisted in donating some netbooks where the hardware had no CD/DVD drive, 2 USB ports and an RJ45 network port. The single USB flash disk each student had contained their years academic work and so could not be used for a pen-drive install. No student had access to buy another flash disk, even if they had the money. Each netbook was pre-loaded with Windows Starter. The key here is to think back to basics as a brand new user without the nice to have items i.e. DVD drive, USB flash disk, but someone who has a network connection on their current OS. Regards Hylton -- ======================================================================== Hylton is a Lions Club member of Lions Club of Fish Hoek (District 410A) http://www.fishhoeklionsclub.org.za being part of the worlds largest non profit NGO ======================================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2013-11-26 at 12:43 +0100, Per Jessen wrote:

Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:

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Remember this is a newbie who wants the latest opensuse. A newbie who has no other PC hardware or facilities to clone anything.

I recently assisted in donating some netbooks where the hardware had no CD/DVD drive, 2 USB ports and an RJ45 network port. The single USB flash disk each student had contained their years academic work and so could not be used for a pen-drive install. No student had access to buy another flash disk, even if they had the money. Each netbook was pre-loaded with Windows Starter.

Why not donate a USB stick along with the netbook? The flash disk only needs to be about 1Gb - those are given away as advertising presents.

1GByte? Not even that is needed: openSUSE-13.1-NET-x86_64.iso 06-Nov-2013 17:27 284M Although i wonder i you still get them that small ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 26/11/2013 12:31, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) a écrit :

I recently assisted in donating some netbooks where the hardware had no CD/DVD drive, 2 USB ports and an RJ45 network port. The single USB flash disk each student had contained their years academic work and so could not be used for a pen-drive install. No student had access to buy another flash disk, even if they had the money. Each netbook was pre-loaded with Windows Starter.

*one* flash key is enough for *all* the students..

The key here is to think back to basics as a brand new user without the nice to have items i.e. DVD drive, USB flash disk, but someone who has a network connection on their current OS.

I have a similar problem (not yet solved) for a people that, when retired, was donated his work laptop working, but with no peripheral. the window 9x software is so old than the internet explorer can't explore any thing (everybody have certificates nowaday). The computer do *not* boot on usb. He is fast enough to be worth keeping (was certainly very high end when new) this pc is not mine and I have to wait the owner to come to be able to work on it. What I will try: * see if my usb dvd reader is seen and able to boot, if so no more problems. * try to upload on *my* server some tools, probably some puppy or xpud distro that, with luck, I may be able to boot from the windows boot manager * try to remove the hard drive and install something on it, but I fear it to be some flash memory soldered on the mobo... this computer used to be run from a desk with all the necessary hardware... and I don't have the desk but if I can't upgrade the computer I won't blame anybody (nor me :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 26/11/13 15:12, Per Jessen wrote:

jdd wrote:

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Le 26/11/2013 12:31, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) a écrit :

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I recently assisted in donating some netbooks where the hardware had no CD/DVD drive, 2 USB ports and an RJ45 network port. The single USB flash disk each student had contained their years academic work and so could not be used for a pen-drive install. No student had access to buy another flash disk, even if they had the money. Each netbook was pre-loaded with Windows Starter.

*one* flash key is enough for *all* the students..

Excellent point!

An excellent point EXCEPT the students are scattered across 6 university campuses at least 50km from each other and EACH student needs a backup of their own school work i.e. it is not just annual course material, it is the students own work that has been backed up. Back to the drawing board jdd :) -- ======================================================================== Hylton is a Lions Club member of Lions Club of Fish Hoek (District 410A) http://www.fishhoeklionsclub.org.za being part of the worlds largest non profit NGO ======================================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Dylan wrote:

On 23/11/13 18:17, Greg Freemyer wrote:

[SNIP]

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To install any operating system you need to boot up into a dedicated boot environment.

Why, exactly? Say I am running oS 12.3 and have a spare partition, why shouldn't it be possible to execute a program in the running 12.3 system which does a 1st stage install into the spare partition and updates the bootloader? At the next boot, you can then choose to boot to the new installation and complete the install from there...

This is easily done - I do this when I install servers I rent (e.g. @ Hetzner). I run Hetzner's rescue system which runs in memory only. Then I setup a boot partition with the installation-system kernel+initrd and boot with that on the next boot. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (0.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - now also with dynamic DNS service. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 25/11/13 21:00, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Saturday, 2013-11-23 at 18:37 -0000, Dylan wrote:

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On 23/11/13 18:17, Greg Freemyer wrote:

[SNIP]

...

To install any operating system you need to boot up into a dedicated boot environment.

Why, exactly? Say I am running oS 12.3 and have a spare partition, why shouldn't it be possible to execute a program in the running 12.3 system which does a 1st stage install into the spare partition and updates the bootloader? At the next boot, you can then choose to boot to the new installation and complete the install from there...

I think I remember seeing a yast module to install the distro on another directory :-?

So do I, and in looking for it I found: yast2-instserver - YaST2 - Installation Server Configuration and Management This package allows you to configure an installation server suitable for installaing SUSE Linux over the network. Currently FTP, HTTP and NFS sources are supported. ... Dx

- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)

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-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 23/11/13 20:17, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:

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Hi,

OK, A fairly rough statement to make but the newest version of OpenSuse, and I believe its previous versions, did not have a TRUE network installation option.

WITHOUT any additional software management i.e. to create a Live USB or DVD, and also not having a master host server to retrieve from, how can a network install truly be done?

I would certainly download a file and execute it on my operating system that simply pointed me to a server from which I could then download the entire distribution.

A file should be made available that once downloaded, would start the installation process of 13.1. It does not matter what OS I am coming from, only that the file I download is compatible enough with my current OS so that I can install 13.1.

I am putting this out into the community as there will come a time where USB drives and CD/DVD's are no longer available to be used on a laptop, as it has a network connection. How does a person with no optical drive and no USB port with a single laptop install openSuse?

Just a thought Should I perhaps raise it on Bugzilla?

Regards Hylton

Feature requests are supposed to go to fate, not bugzilla:

https://features.opensuse.org/

Thanks. I'll look at putting something together to better describe the request.

=== Do you have an example device in mind that can't boot from external media one way or another?

==

Yes I recently acquired a Windows Vista laptop where the CD/DVD is flaky, the USB ports seem OK and the network is OK. Seeing as I last used Windows a few years ago, I figured I should rather install OpenSuse 13.1, seeing as if the system doesn't work, I lose nothing.

I don't think your idea is thought out well yet. To install any operating system you need to boot up into a dedicated boot environment.

For physical installs that means:

- boot from CD/DVD - boot from USB / external SATA - boot from PXE (a true network boot, where the boot OS is provided by a PXE server)

The above hardware would in theory be able to boot from a Live USB stick to do the install yet I just do not have a spare 5Gb flash disk for the 4.1Gb image. I have a network connection and whilst it is Windows based it would allow me to get to a PXE type server. However finding a PXE server is another mission. I am not asking a member of the community to allow me access to their PXE server, I am querying why Opensuse does not have a method for a new user to download a SMALL file (i.e. Java executable) that can either be self executing or executed on their current OS to retrieve the necessary files to begin the install of OpenSuse, via a network connection.

It may be possible to boot some devices from a bluetooth connected drive, but I've never heard of that.

:) Lets get booting directly from a wired network working first :)

So your proposal needs to have an identified boot solution that is not currently supported that should be.

Hear hear. Hylton -- ======================================================================== Hylton is a Lions Club member of Lions Club of Fish Hoek (District 410A) http://www.fishhoeklionsclub.org.za being part of the worlds largest non profit NGO ======================================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

"Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC)" wrote:

On 23/11/13 20:17, Greg Freemyer wrote:

The above hardware would in theory be able to boot from a Live USB stick to do the install yet I just do not have a spare 5Gb flash disk for the

4.1Gb image.

The NET install iso fits on a CD, so hundreds of megs, not gigs. Also, if your idea is really going to happen it will need a developer. One way for that to happen is the Google Summer Of Code (gsoc) project. Ideas for gsoc projects are solicited in Jan/Feb on the opensuse-project mailing list. Or you could email Many Gupta and see if he is managing the process again this year. Once the idea is in the list of potential projects a mentor and a student have to be identified. Somehow I think finding someone willing to mentor will be harder than finding a student. Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 23/11/13 21:11, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

В Sat, 23 Nov 2013 18:54:28 +0200 "Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC)" пишет:

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Hi,

OK, A fairly rough statement to make but the newest version of OpenSuse, and I believe its previous versions, did not have a TRUE network installation option.

https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:PXE_boot_installation

If that is not TRUE network installation you need to start with definition of "TRUE network installation" first.

PXE is via the network BUT it requires a PXE server. What if one is not available? -- ======================================================================== Hylton is a Lions Club member of Lions Club of Fish Hoek (District 410A) http://www.fishhoeklionsclub.org.za being part of the worlds largest non profit NGO ======================================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 25/11/13 23:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Monday, 2013-11-25 at 10:55 +0100, Per Jessen wrote:

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Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:

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OK, A fairly rough statement to make but the newest version of OpenSuse, and I believe its previous versions, did not have a TRUE network installation option.

WITHOUT any additional software management i.e. to create a Live USB or DVD, and also not having a master host server to retrieve from, how can a network install truly be done?

Download the install-system kernel and initrd, boot them over PXE. This does require a working DHCP and TFTP server setup though. I've been installing servers with this method for the last 4-5 years.

View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=484223 How to boot a openSUSE DVD from hard disk with Grub2

It is a method to boot the openSUSE DVD image from grub2, copied to hard disk, not from a real DVD. It uses the ISO file stored on the HD.

I initially saw this and thought great. The only problems are you need a working opensuse installation as well as the new OS files being stored on a partition that is not going to be formatted. In theory, is might be possible, but remember new pc users are not going to know the intricaies of managing partitions etc via fdisk. Good thought and link idea but not feasible for newbies. Regards Hylton -- ======================================================================== Hylton is a Lions Club member of Lions Club of Fish Hoek (District 410A) http://www.fishhoeklionsclub.org.za being part of the worlds largest non profit NGO ======================================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org