Yeah, right.  Look back through the list archives since the deal between
MS and Novell was announced.  I'd bet close to 1/3 of all the mail to
this list involved non technical discussions of the agreement.  I'd
think this might be a good thing on this list, since it puts forth what
the Novell CEO's position on this deal is, and might end all of the
speculation one way or the other.  Tell me what the technical aspects of
 "A five year plan to Novell/SuSE" are.

>>> On 11/21/2006 at 2:51 PM, Patrick Shanahan 
wrote:
> * Andreas Girardet  [11-21-06 14:42]:
>> Have not seen any email with this URL from anyone on here, 
> 
> There is a *reason*.  It belongs in suse-ot@suse.com.
> 
> This forum is for "technical" discussion of the SUSE issues of
linux.
> 
> Thankyou
-- 
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...

...

On 11/21/2006 at 3:31 PM, Kenneth Schneider wrote: On Tue, 2006-11-21 at 15:00 -0500, Joe Zitnik wrote: Yeah, right. Look back through the list archives since the deal between MS and Novell was announced. I'd bet close to 1/3 of all the mail to this list involved non technical discussions of the agreement. I'd think this might be a good thing on this list, since it puts forth what the Novell CEO's position on this deal is, and might end all of the speculation one way or the other. Tell me what the technical aspects of "A five year plan to Novell/SuSE" are.

Have a close look at:

http://en.opensuse.org/Opensuse_mailing_list_netiquette

And think again.

Think again about what? All I did was present facts. Go back through the posts since the deal was announced and tell me how many were of a non technical nature. Dozens, maybe hundreds, and someone picks one e-mail to say, this isn't the place for that? Gimme a break. My point was, this list has been filled for weeks with discussion over the deal between Microsoft and Novell. Someone posts a useful link, one that presents the Novell CEOs position on the deal. I have to believe the CEO is more knowledgeable than the list users over the legal and economical reasons and ramifications of the deal. If anything, maybe his post will end some of the speculation by presenting a link to the explanation of SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY KNOWs WHY this was done. You drew your line in the sand about a hundred miles after it was already crossed. That's all. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue November 21 2006 12:50, Patrick Shanahan wrote: Patrick, you might want to take a look at the email address of the original post - aka NOVELL.COM. Whether or not you contention that this should be moved to the OT list is well warrented, the original post is from a Novell employee and he's addressing the concerns about the community. I would suspect that this is directed by Novell itself. Therefore, telling a Novell employee that's likely acting under the direction of the Novell corp to take it to the OT list is not an issue for Andreas Girardet@novell.com? Curtis.

TAKE IT TO suse-ot! -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2

- -- Spammers Beware: Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Like the song say: "Everything's 'Zen'... I don't think so"! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFY2zz7CQBg4DqqCwRAjojAJ9G/NAjse/jSqJe4PnMzXz3YmYqRgCgx2PX hrshA7RK+4mg3DMD7b9FqOI= =HBc2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

>>> On 11/21/2006 at 3:50 PM, Patrick Shanahan 
wrote:
> * Joe Zitnik  [11-21-06 15:46]:
>> Think again about what?  All I did was present facts.  Go back
through
>> the posts since the deal was announced and tell me how many were of
a
>> non technical nature.  Dozens, maybe hundreds, and someone picks
one
>> e-mail to say, this isn't the place for that?  Gimme a break.  My
point
>> was, this list has been filled for weeks with discussion over the
deal
>> between Microsoft and Novell.  
> 
> Then you are not doing your share (remember community?).  Step up
and
> tell it like is is _supposed_ to be.
> 
> TAKE IT TO suse-ot!

Do you just not get it?  My issue isn't with your e-mail, or even the
point you're trying to make.

Is your LUG under attack?
SuSE tainted
A Five Year Deal to Dump Novell/SuSE

There are dozens of these, just in the last ten hours,and you pick
"Novell CEO's community Answer" to be the list police?  I think you
could have picked a better battle.  Where was your indignance at their
abuse of the list etiquette?
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On Tuesday 21 November 2006 15:34, Patrick Shanahan wrote: ....

You have not done your home-work. If you want to check the archives, you will find that I quite frequently object to off-topic discussion on all the suse* and opensuse* lists. ....

Patrick, http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate "User/Support Lists These lists are for generic questions and User to User support for the openSUSE distribution. * opensuse@opensuse.org" This is not only about technical, but also openSUSE distribution related social questions. That all is support. So it is not really OT to discuss recent events. What makes all threads looking bad is that many negative messages are based on external sources that are not necessarily friendly, only because they come from other Linux oriented sources. The Linux is commercialized more every day, and competition is growing. It is to expect more and worse attacks in the future, with more discussions going about. It is time to think about openSUSE-advocacy list, to move social events from this group. Just going around, telling everybody that any social related discussion is OT, leads nowhere. -- Regards, Rajko M. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, 2006-11-26 at 11:11 +0700, Matt T. wrote:

On Wednesday 22 November 2006 11:34, Rajko M wrote:

...

On Tuesday 21 November 2006 15:34, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

You have not done your home-work. If you want to check the archives, you will find that I quite frequently object to off-topic discussion on all the suse* and opensuse* lists.

...

Patrick,

http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate "User/Support Lists These lists are for generic questions and User to User support for the openSUSE distribution. * opensuse@opensuse.org"

This is not only about technical, but also openSUSE distribution related social questions. That all is support.

So it is not really OT to discuss recent events.

Agreed. I think it does belong here.

Then please read this: http://en.opensuse.org/Opensuse_mailing_list_netiquette -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 26 November 2006 20:43, John Andersen wrote:

On Sunday 26 November 2006 16:48, Kenneth Schneider wrote:

...

...

...

This is not only about technical, but also openSUSE distribution related social questions. That all is support.

So it is not really OT to discuss recent events.

Agreed. I think it does belong here.

Then please read this:

http://en.opensuse.org/Opensuse_mailing_list_netiquette

Ummm, thats just a wiki. Anyone can deface a wiki.

Was that about Nov. 13 addition to the article? :-) It is good meant, but opensuse.org is hosting 3 Announce Lists, 11 User/Support Lists, 1 Project Lists, 3 Architecture Lists, 16 Topic Lists, 1 Test List. 35 Total Please see http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2006-11/msg00133.html and if you feel that you would like it, vote for it. -- Regards, Rajko M. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 26 November 2006 23:17, jdd wrote:

...

...

Then please read this:

http://en.opensuse.org/Opensuse_mailing_list_netiquette

Ummm, thats just a wiki.  Anyone can deface a wiki.

if this should be a problem, any sysop can protect the page from being modified, as some pages of the wiki are (like the front page)

Not knowing a great deal about wiki management..... I would be more interested to know if it were possible to kno who changed a given page last, and when. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Sunday 26 November 2006 23:25, jdd wrote:

John Andersen a écrit :

...

On Sunday 26 November 2006 23:17, jdd wrote:

...

...

...

Then please read this:

http://en.opensuse.org/Opensuse_mailing_list_netiquette

Ummm, thats just a wiki. Anyone can deface a wiki.

if this should be a problem, any sysop can protect the page from being modified, as some pages of the wiki are (like the front page)

Not knowing a great deal about wiki management..... I would be more interested to know if it were possible to kno who changed a given page last, and when.

look at the history page (link at the bottom of any page). look also at the special:recent pages

jdd

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA BUSTED KEN! Thats exactly suspected. Ken puts in the prohibition about discussing certain articles and then points to it as if it were gospel. Here is the page before Ken's change http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=Opensuse_mailing_list_netiquette&oldid=10961 To Ken: At LEAST next time use a nom-du-keyboard! -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Monday 27 November 2006 00:26, jdd wrote:

(and by the way discussion about this wiki page is not OT neither)

But pointing out that "not ... neither" is somewhat non-standard usage, and redundant in that neither is a contraction of not+either, is CLEARLY off topic, not to mention pedantic. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Monday 27 November 2006 00:33, jdd wrote:

beg you pardon, I'm french and my english is poor :-(

My French is non existent, so I try to help everybody learn english ;-) -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Sunday 26 November 2006 19:48, Kenneth Schneider wrote: ...

...

...

This is not only about technical, but also openSUSE distribution related social questions. That all is support.

So it is not really OT to discuss recent events.

Agreed. I think it does belong here.

Then please read this:

http://en.opensuse.org/Opensuse_mailing_list_netiquette

Hi Ken, While I agree that one has to be on topic for the list, the article "Opensuse mailing list netiquette" is written about some technical oriented mail list, but without telling which one it is. The opensuse@opensuse.org is catch-it-all group. We need one that will allow any SUSE related postings, but as it appear we would need one called opensuse-advocacy. I hope that you agree and would vote for it. My next mail goes to opensuse-project@opensuse.org with proposal for new group. The purpose of this group is not changed a bit after Novell decided to move suse-linux-e here. -- Regards, Rajko M. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2006-11-21 at 15:43 -0500, Joe Zitnik wrote:

If anything, maybe his post will end some of the speculation by presenting a link to the explanation of SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY KNOWs WHY this was done. You drew your line in the sand about a hundred miles after it was already crossed. That's all.

While I agree with you that THIS thread possibly deserves an announcement to this list, I think this was the exception (I haven't read the link yet, but make an assumption it is offering rebuttal to MS-tales). You are in err to say the line was drawn on this thread, as hundreds of cries to carry such topics to the OT thread preceed it. This is the 'nuts & bolts' forum, and I for one am not intending to abandon SUSE until the facts are in. In the meantime, I follow this list for tips/tricks/insight of worth...not FUD. So I heartily agree...take it to OT PLEASE! -- Tom in NM SuSE 9.3/Evolution 8:35pm up 9 days 1:53, 2 users, load average: 0.33, 0.19, 0.11 ==== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 22 November 2006 12:19, Brad Bourn wrote:

Has anyone made a suse-police@suse.com list?

Yep, you just got plonked to it for being a top-posting idiot. -- Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented worker', is like calling a home intruder an 'unwanted houseguest'. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org