Re: [SuSE Linux] SuSE support does not function
Michael Perry wrote:
Quoting Evil Linux on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 01:27:28PM -0700:
I seemed to be one of the lucky ones. I sent three emails and three weeks later I received one reply back. I have also tried to call the tech support phone number, but with little success. Personally I do not feel I am getting my money's worth by paying for the package.
Not to sound confrontational, but how much did you spend for the package and what do you consider to be the requisite technical support you should get? If you spend $40 on 5 cd's of software, what level of technical support do you think you should get? I am just curious about what return on investment you think would be adequate. Let me say, I rarely send technical support email. I have used SuSE since 5.0 with some brief forays to the land of red hats. My primary location for technical support and expertise with the operating system is this mailing list and the mailing list archives. I respect SuSE and I like what they do; I just do not depend on them to provide tech support. If I did, perhaps I would feel that what they charge should carry some quick response service level support. Then again, perhaps not and I would do what I have done. Primarily experiment, make mistakes, learn, make more mistakes, and learn more. Also drop a few emails to some notable luminaries on this list.
I'm not flaming or arguing. Just commenting...
I have a lot of sympathy for this view and I hate it when people complain about not getting value for money when they only spent 40 bucks. OTOH, people like myself who are prepared to RTFM and search the list archives and the web for answers and even experiment to a degree sometimes still end up with no other recourse but to report the fault to the distributor and ask for their help. Given all the work you've put in by that point, it is extremely disturbing to find either that you are being completely ignored or that you are being given the brush off because they won't support the system once you've compiled your own kernel. For $40 we can expect only a limited amount of support, but some of us aren't even getting that. When you've taken the time to investigate the problem thoroughly and have documented it all for them with example input and output etc. it's only fair to expect a slightly more co-operative response. After all in doing this we are helping them to refine their product. SuSE must be prepared to stand behind their product if they expect to retain any credibility. If that means they have to charge a little more then so be it. But the current policy is certain to lose them customers. I for one will be looking very carefully at the support angle from now on when choosing distributions. -- rclark@virgosolutions.demon.co.uk Ralph Clark, Virgo Solutions Ltd (UK) __ _ / / (_)__ __ ____ __ * Powerful * Flexible * Compatible * Reliable * / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / *Well Supported * Thousands of New Users Every Day* /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ The Cost Effective Choice - Linux Means Business! -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Ralph Clark wrote:
I have a lot of sympathy for this view and I hate it when people complain about not getting value for money when they only spent 40 bucks.
I do to. It doesn't matter really what the price was. $40, or $4000. It is simply an issue of delivering as promised. If SuSE is silly enough to promise 60 day installation support for $60, that is they should deliver on that promise. If I sell my car for $2000, and promise to repair any problems for the next two years. Then it isn't fair or legal, to later claim that it is TOO expensive to address major mechanical problems, and that my warrantee is limited only to providing emergency jump starts if the car is towed to my apartment first. And it is definitely not legal or moral then continue to try and sell a second car for $2000 and make the same promise. The people I've spoken to at SuSE understand that, and admit they are trying to fix the problem. I don't understand why some of the readers of this list don't. Reasonable installation support, means at the very minimum every message is replied to. In 950f the cases the message could be one of the following: - We are sorry, your request goes beyond our standard installation. Support. Your system is up and running, and your YaST upgrades are working. We don't write package X.rpm ourselves, but merely act as an agent for delivering the package to you. We suggest you contact x@y.z as he is the current maintainer of this package according to the LSM. - We are sorry, but we can't find your registration in our database. Please try registering again at: http://... - You have seemed to have stumped our installation support department. If we eventually find an answer we will let you know. Otherwise you may wish to contact sales@suse.com for information on returning our product. We are sorry this didn't seem to work out for you. - FAQ #xxx seems to answer your question. If not, please send us further details about your problem. - Thanks for your input. We will consider incorporating your ideas into our next release. - No, we don't want easy money, and we won't send your message to 15 of our friends. Bill
OTOH, people like myself who are prepared to RTFM and search the list archives and the web for answers and even experiment to a degree sometimes still end up with no other recourse but to report the fault to the distributor and ask for their help. Given all the work you've put in by that point, it is extremely disturbing to find either that you are being completely ignored or that you are being given the brush off because they won't support the system once you've compiled your own kernel. For $40 we can expect only a limited amount of support, but some of us aren't even getting that. When you've taken the time to investigate the problem thoroughly and have documented it all for them with example input and output etc. it's only fair to expect a slightly more co-operative response. After all in doing this we are helping them to refine their product.
SuSE must be prepared to stand behind their product if they expect to retain any credibility. If that means they have to charge a little more then so be it. But the current policy is certain to lose them customers. I for one will be looking very carefully at the support angle from now on when choosing distributions.
-- rclark@virgosolutions.demon.co.uk Ralph Clark, Virgo Solutions Ltd (UK) __ _ / / (_)__ __ ____ __ * Powerful * Flexible * Compatible * Reliable * / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / *Well Supported * Thousands of New Users Every Day* /____/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ The Cost Effective Choice - Linux Means Business!
-- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
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mmm... I'm one for one in the support department... And, this mail list (paid for by SuSE) is a pretty good support medium. It is better than the comp.os.linux.misc newsgroup which I used to frequent, because most messages here are related to questions for help or answers to questions the focus on the SuSE distribution. What has been missing from this list is the necessity to wade through the flood of porno ads (some do get through, but not many), the barrage of gonad comparisons, spitting contests, and other ego displays, arguing about off topic subjects (which usually end up in philosophical debates that are finally terminated when one or both sides evokes Hitler and fascism), and rants from the politically and religiously insane just to find information that can be useful. The ration of questions answered to questions asked about SuSE has to be an order of magnitude greater on this list than any other list. You folks haven't forgotten that, have you? I switched from M$ to Linux about a year ago. I guess I am only a quasi-newbie. Being a professional programmer helps because we have long depended on Reading The Fine Manual in order to learn how to solve problems. Even so, programming, computers, networks and the Internet, and all the technology behind them, have become so massive and varied that only a genius can become competent in the areas. Most, like myself, are expert in one area, good in a couple of more, and have vague knowledge in the rest. Where I work a person was hired to program awhile back. The individual claimed prior knowledge in several dialects of the programming arts. After a few days and a few questions, however, it became painfully obvious that the individual was not seeking help with a problem or two. The person's real need was a through training, beginning with the basic difference between and OS and an application, and the fundamentals about input, output, sequence, choice and repetition. Forget operating an IDE to develop a GUI app, this individual couldn't navigate Windows competently. The difference between giving help to answer a question or two, and support that amounts to lifting a neophyte from total ignorance to reasonable competence is the kind of difference some are asking on this list. This list won't supply that kind of assistance, and it is unrealistic to expect it (and the SuSE staff) to do so. If you are willing to pay big $$$ SuSE can offer that kind of service, though. That is how SuSE makes money. It would surprise me if the CD sales did anything more than break even. Personally, any SuSE employees that moniter this list are a bonus. The real benefit of this list are the experienced users who donate their time to answer the questions of the less experienced, who, after they acquire some experience, give back to the list by helping others. That is what the community spirit of this list has been in the past. We should get back to that spirit and stop the worthless whining and complaining. Geesh, I've spent more money taking my wife to dinner than I spend on a SuSE subsciption, and I usually tip the waiter 20% just for doing what he is paid to do by the owner of the restaurant. You folks want to start tipping Lenz for the help he provides? Maybe that will bring Helmut back, because it sure beats being slapped in the face when he was only trying to help. Ralph Clark wrote:
Michael Perry wrote:
Quoting Evil Linux on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 01:27:28PM -0700:
I seemed to be one of the lucky ones. I sent three emails and three weeks later I received one reply back. I have also tried to call the tech support phone number, but with little success. Personally I do not feel I am getting my money's worth by paying for the package.
Not to sound confrontational, but how much did you spend for the package and what do you consider to be the requisite technical support you should get? If you spend $40 on 5 cd's of software, what level of technical support do you think you should get? I am just curious about what return on investment you think would be adequate. Let me say, I rarely send technical support email. I have used SuSE since 5.0 with some brief forays to the land of red hats. My primary location for technical support and expertise with the operating system is this mailing list and the mailing list archives. I respect SuSE and I like what they do; I just do not depend on them to provide tech support. If I did, perhaps I would feel that what they charge should carry some quick response service level support. Then again, perhaps not and I would do what I have done. Primarily experiment, make mistakes, learn, make more mistakes, and learn more. Also drop a few emails to some notable luminaries on this list.
I'm not flaming or arguing. Just commenting...
I have a lot of sympathy for this view and I hate it when people complain about not getting value for money when they only spent 40 bucks.
OTOH, people like myself who are prepared to RTFM and search the list archives and the web for answers and even experiment to a degree sometimes still end up with no other recourse but to report the fault to the distributor and ask for their help. Given all the work you've put in by that point, it is extremely disturbing to find either that you are being completely ignored or that you are being given the brush off because they won't support the system once you've compiled your own kernel. For $40 we can expect only a limited amount of support, but some of us aren't even getting that. When you've taken the time to investigate the problem thoroughly and have documented it all for them with example input and output etc. it's only fair to expect a slightly more co-operative response. After all in doing this we are helping them to refine their product.
SuSE must be prepared to stand behind their product if they expect to retain any credibility. If that means they have to charge a little more then so be it. But the current policy is certain to lose them customers. I for one will be looking very carefully at the support angle from now on when choosing distributions.
-- rclark@virgosolutions.demon.co.uk Ralph Clark, Virgo Solutions Ltd (UK)
-- JLK Linux, because it's STABLE, the source code is included, the price is right. -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Jerry Lynn Kreps wrote:
unrealistic to expect it (and the SuSE staff) to do so. If you are willing to pay big $$$ SuSE can offer that kind of service, though. That is how SuSE makes money. It would surprise me if the CD sales did anything more than break even.
Where in the world did you get that idea? I inquired with there technical staff. SuSE offers absolutely no paid support. If they did it would make my life much easier, because companies like AT&T have lots of money to throw around. It is much less hassle, than trying to assign problems to one of my own team. They do have a partner that offers support service. But the service is VANILLA service, having nothing to do with SuSE. And from my brief talk with them, I concluded their partner knows very little about SuSE, and they have no mechanism in place to feed back changes and fixes into the SuSE distribution. Bill -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Quoting Bill C Riemers on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 12:28:49AM -0400:
Jerry Lynn Kreps wrote:
unrealistic to expect it (and the SuSE staff) to do so. If you are willing to pay big $$$ SuSE can offer that kind of service, though. That is how SuSE makes money. It would surprise me if the CD sales did anything more than break even.
Where in the world did you get that idea? I inquired with there technical staff. SuSE offers absolutely no paid support. If they did it would make my life much easier, because companies like AT&T have lots of money to throw around. It is much less hassle, than trying to assign problems to one of my own team. They do have a partner that offers support service. But the service is VANILLA service, having nothing to do with SuSE. And from my brief talk with them, I concluded their partner knows very little about SuSE, and they have no mechanism in place to feed back changes and fixes into the SuSE distribution.
Bill
Please consider www.linuxcare.com for paid technical support. I only mention this because as a matter of fact I work for linuxcare not in a technical support function primarily. If you are serious about getting service level agreement support for SuSE Linux, please give us a call. I do not want this to sound like I'm marketing the group and I do not think I have ever mentioned who I work for in all the time I have been on this list. That was quite intentional on my part. I could have subscribed with a linuxcare email address but I did not. We offer what you want IF you want technical support. Call SuSE and ask about us. If you want post-installation support, we can do it. We have a quite good partnership with SuSE in the support area. I would again state to give SuSE a call in Oakland and ask about us. I wont speak of this matter again though. I dont like to sound like Im selling services to the group. If you want to take this to private email, that would be great Thanks. -- Michael Perry mperry@znet.com ---------------------- -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Michael Perry wrote:
Quoting Bill C Riemers on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 12:28:49AM -0400:
Jerry Lynn Kreps wrote:
unrealistic to expect it (and the SuSE staff) to do so. If you are willing to pay big $$$ SuSE can offer that kind of service, though. That is how SuSE makes money. It would surprise me if the CD sales did anything more than break even.
Where in the world did you get that idea? I inquired with there technical staff. SuSE offers absolutely no paid support. If they did it would make my life much easier, because companies like AT&T have lots of money to throw around. It is much less hassle, than trying to assign problems to one of my own team. They do have a partner that offers support service. But the service is VANILLA service, having nothing to do with SuSE. And from my brief talk with them, I concluded their partner knows very little about SuSE, and they have no mechanism in place to feed back changes and fixes into the SuSE distribution.
Bill
Please consider www.linuxcare.com for paid technical support. I only
This is an example of what I consider VANILLA support. I'm certain your support services are good. And your pricing structure looks very inexpensive. But there is a significant difference between hiring consultants, on a per incident basis, and supporting a distribution. For example, one of the outstanding problems with the SuSE 6.1 distribution is it CORE dumps whenever I try to link some of my shared C++ libraries. I know the way to avoid the problem. Install the latest version of EGCS binaries from the Slackware distribution. Walla, no more core dumps. But solution won't help others when we release the same libraries open source. And it is very dissatisfying to know each time any of do a SuSE upgrade, we have to then replace broken pieces. In the past, we've paid companies like Netscape to fix bugs, even though we already knew exactly how to fix them ourselves. RedHat is about the only Unix distribution that will actually fix the BUGS for free. SuSE seems not to care about bug reports. And even if you offer them a pile of money they still don't seem to care. This difference is one of the reasons why AT&T is now spending an ungodly amount of money Y2K certifying RedHat for internal use, while SuSE was instead simply classified as out of scope, and we aren't suppose to run mission critical applications under it. Bill -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Hi, On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Bill C Riemers wrote:
Where in the world did you get that idea? I inquired with there technical staff. SuSE offers absolutely no paid support.
I'd like to object in this case. We definetely offer professional (paid) support (that's where I work at), and we plan to expand this business to other countries as well. SuSE Inc. is also building up this kind infrastructure. The main problem in this area is getting qualified people, otherwise we would already offer this service on a much bigger scale.
If they did it would make my life much easier, because companies like AT&T have lots of money to throw around. It is much less hassle, than trying to assign problems to one of my own team. They do have a partner that offers support service. But the service is VANILLA service, having nothing to do with SuSE. And from my brief talk with them, I concluded their partner knows very little about SuSE, and they have no mechanism in place to feed back changes and fixes into the SuSE distribution.
Well, I guess this infrastructure is just at the beginning. It may take some time, but it will definetely be expanded. Bye, LenZ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lenz Grimmer SuSE GmbH <A HREF="mailto:grimmer@suse.de">mailto:grimmer@suse.de</A> Schanzaeckerstr. 10 <A HREF="http://www.suse.de/~grimmer"><A HREF="http://www.suse.de/~grimmer</A">http://www.suse.de/~grimmer</A</A>> 90443 Nuernberg, Germany -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Lenz Grimmer wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Bill C Riemers wrote:
Where in the world did you get that idea? I inquired with there technical staff. SuSE offers absolutely no paid support.
I'd like to object in this case. We definetely offer professional (paid) support (that's where I work at), and we plan to expand this business to other countries as well. SuSE Inc. is also building up this kind infrastructure. The main problem in this area is getting qualified people, otherwise we would already offer this service on a much bigger scale.
Hrmmm where to I send a resume? };-> -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
Allen Carpenter wrote:
Lenz Grimmer wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Bill C Riemers wrote:
Where in the world did you get that idea? I inquired with there technical staff. SuSE offers absolutely no paid support.
I'd like to object in this case. We definetely offer professional (paid) support (that's where I work at), and we plan to expand this business to other countries as well. SuSE Inc. is also building up this kind infrastructure. The main problem in this area is getting qualified people, otherwise we would already offer this service on a much bigger scale.
Hrmmm where to I send a resume? };->
Indeed. There seems to be no link on the SuSE web page for employment opportunities. If you need qualified people, the net seems like the place to find them. I would be interested in job offerings at SuSE :-) -- lunaslide * PGP key->pgpkeys.mit.edu port 11371 * * * * * * My advice to you is just be lucky. Go out there and buy low and sell high, and everything will be fine.* -Ken Thompson * * * * * -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
All this bickering and flaming reminds me of Civilization Call To Power. When you first start out everything is nice and easy... your people are having celebrations in your honour. Everything goes pretty smoothly untill *WHAM* everyone starts freaking out and rioting. The reasons are usually unknown or trivial. Before ya know it your people have turned against you and are calling themselves barbarians (and flying the red flag mind you). Seems just a week or so ago everyone was happy. Then someone complains because he didn't get the latest most up to date release. Now that the flood gates have opened everyone want to complain (myself included... complaining about complainers). Can someone tell me since when did this mailing list become "Official'? Since when was it the duty of the SuSE staff to answer my questions on this mailing list? I thought that this list was an added bonus. If you can not go out and do a little searching on your own when no one answers you, then perhaps you should learn how to use the web to search for info. Granted their are always weird problems... if this is the case then you should try IRC or Usenet. This list is only a supplement. Join a LUG for crying out loud. I was always under the impression that the SuSE support consisted only of getting Linux installed. Not how to install every single program, but getting a basic setup going. Anyway.... to all you people threating to leave, please do. Fly your little red flag. Join another tribe and repeat the whole process over... because that's what you will do. arghhh, rimez P.S. I'm ripping my hair out over CTP ;-) wner of the restaurant.
You folks want to start tipping Lenz for the help he provides? Maybe that will bring Helmut back, because it sure beats being slapped in the face when he was only trying to help.
Ralph Clark wrote:
Michael Perry wrote:
Quoting Evil Linux on Sun, May 30, 1999 at 01:27:28PM -0700:
I since 5.0 with some brief forays to the land of red
hats. My primary locaton for technical support and expertise with the operatioblem thoroughly and have documented it all for them with example input and output etc. it's only fair to expect a slightly more co-operative respon
SuSE must be prepared to stand behind their product if they expect to retain any credibility. If th
--
JLK Linux, because it's STABLE, the source code is included, the price is right. --ww.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html
-- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
well said! more constructive info and less negativity! On Wed, 02 Jun 1999, Jerry Lynn Kreps wrote:
mmm... I'm one for one in the support department...
<snip>
Personally, any SuSE employees that moniter this list are a bonus. The real benefit of this list are the experienced users who donate their time to answer the questions of the less experienced, who, after they acquire some experience, give back to the list by helping others. That is what the community spirit of this list has been in the past. We should get back to that spirit and stop the worthless whining and complaining. Geesh, I've spent more money taking my wife to dinner than I spend on a SuSE subsciption, and I usually tip the waiter 20% just for doing what he is paid to do by the owner of the restaurant. You folks want to start tipping Lenz for the help he provides? Maybe that will bring Helmut back, because it sure beats being slapped in the face when he was only trying to help.
-- cott lockhart slockhar@cadvision.com "sometimes it is easier to ask forgiveness, than to seek permission" -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>
participants (9)
-
bcr＠feynman.com -
grimmer＠suse.de -
jlkreps＠navix.net -
lunaslide＠pacbell.net -
mezger＠surfree.com -
mperry＠znet.com -
ozy＠landofoz.org -
rclark＠virgosolutions.demon.co.uk -
slockhar＠cadvision.com