[opensuse] Grub2 and installing multiple distros on same computer
A while back I had a bit of a gripe about grub2 (vs grub) because it wasn't clear how I would be able to install other distros on my computer apart from my main openSUSE. At that time I wished that I had used grub when I installed 12.2. Well, earlier today I took the plunge and decided to create the situation whereby I could install Tumbleweed and openSUSE RC2 later today - or, if I failed, to re-install 12.2 from scratch using grub. With my heart in my mouth I started the procedure - only to find that I still had a working 12.2 but now with the ability to install more distros. In fact the whole process was "a piece of cake" so to speak. If others are contemplating doing same I recommend reading which is where I got my "inspiration" from: http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/index.php?name=CmodsDownload&file=index&req=getit&lid=38 use Okular to view it, and save it. The article is titled, "Installing Multiple Distributions on the same computer". Read this article SEVERAL+ times before doing anything. I read the article before I installed 12.2 and chose to go the Case #3 way when installing 12.2. 12.2 was installed, but then I got stuck with working out what to do next - and only found the stomach to "take the plunge" today. However, just before the end of the process I broke out in a profuse sweat because on page #16 of the article it states, "Then run the command sudo grub-mkconfig -o ..........". When doing so I got the error message that I was way up there with the fairies as the command "grub-mkconfig" is something I dreamt up after being sprinkled with Tinker Bell's pixie dust. Well, the answer was that the command should read "grub2-mkconfig". Once I found this out everything worked to its finality as expected. One more thing: go into YaST2>Bootloader and make sure that it is sited as described in the article. If not, adjust and save the changes. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.10.00 & kernel 3.8.0-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/03/13 16:27, Basil Chupin wrote:
A while back I had a bit of a gripe about grub2 (vs grub) because it wasn't clear how I would be able to install other distros on my computer apart from my main openSUSE. At that time I wished that I had used grub when I installed 12.2.
Well, earlier today I took the plunge and decided to create the situation whereby I could install Tumbleweed and openSUSE RC2 later today - or, if I failed, to re-install 12.2 from scratch using grub.
With my heart in my mouth I started the procedure - only to find that I still had a working 12.2 but now with the ability to install more distros.
In fact the whole process was "a piece of cake" so to speak.
If others are contemplating doing same I recommend reading which is where I got my "inspiration" from:
http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/index.php?name=CmodsDownload&file=index&req=getit&lid=38
use Okular to view it, and save it.
The article is titled, "Installing Multiple Distributions on the same computer".
Read this article SEVERAL+ times before doing anything.
I read the article before I installed 12.2 and chose to go the Case #3 way when installing 12.2. 12.2 was installed, but then I got stuck with working out what to do next - and only found the stomach to "take the plunge" today.
However, just before the end of the process I broke out in a profuse sweat because on page #16 of the article it states, "Then run the command sudo grub-mkconfig -o ..........". When doing so I got the error message that I was way up there with the fairies as the command "grub-mkconfig" is something I dreamt up after being sprinkled with Tinker Bell's pixie dust.
Well, the answer was that the command should read "grub2-mkconfig". Once I found this out everything worked to its finality as expected.
One more thing:
go into YaST2>Bootloader and make sure that it is sited as described in the article. If not, adjust and save the changes.
BC
Following the above I installed os 12.3 RC2. All went well and I could booth into either 12.2 or 12.3 -- but with some "fiddling" re booting into 12.2 because I upgraded the kernel in 12.2 from 3.8.1-1 to 3.8.1-2 but this new kernel was not being recognised at boot time (details about this on request, if you want to know about this). The problem with booting into 12.2 was caused by not having the grub.cfg recognised in the setup #3 as described in the article (above). I already gave a correction to what is stated in the article: on page 16 it states to use- grub-mkconfig -o /media/btldr/boot/grub/grub.cfg[*] to have a new, updated, grub.cfg generated. I mentioned that the beginning of this command should read "grub2-mkconfig....". Well, the other command - to setup /media/btldr - as the master boot partition, namely grub-install -root-directory=/media/btldr /dev/sda should ALSO read grub2-install........ And when you do this, this command creates a GRUB2 folder in btldr; and in the command 'grub2-mkconfig...' the reference to '.../boot/grub/.....' should therefore read '..../boot/grub2/.....'. Now, what is so damn annoying about this new grub2 thingie is that when one goes to do either 'info/man grub2-install or grub2-mkconfig' you told that you are out of your skull and that there are no such commands! :-( MOST annoying! [*] You need to create a blank file called 'grub.cfg' for this command to work. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.10.00 & kernel 3.8.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Now, what is so damn annoying about this new grub2 thingie is that when one goes to do either 'info/man grub2-install or grub2-mkconfig' you told that you are out of your skull and that there are no such commands! :-( MOST annoying!
They are documented in "info grub2". But as grub-install or grub-mkconfig. Patches for grub.info to replace all occurrences of "grub" with "grub2" in relevant places are welcome.
grub-mkconfig -o /media/btldr/boot/grub/grub.cfg[*] [*] You need to create a blank file called 'grub.cfg' for this command to work.
I just tested it (again) with non-existent file and it works. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-04 10:57 (GMT+0400) Andrey Borzenkov composed:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Now, what is so damn annoying about this new grub2 thingie is that when one goes to do either 'info/man grub2-install or grub2-mkconfig' you told that you are out of your skull and that there are no such commands! :-( MOST annoying!
They are documented in "info grub2". But as grub-install or grub-mkconfig. Patches for grub.info to replace all occurrences of "grub" with "grub2" in relevant places are welcome.
To clarify further, upstream's "Grub2" replaced "Grub Legacy", with no change in name. Therefore, upstream docs only refer to grub, not grub2. Since openSUSE offers both Grub Legacy and Grub2, it is responsible for distinguishing the two to prevent collisions, which means openSUSE packagers and/or community must change all Grub2 occurrences of grub to grub2 in both filesystem and docs. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/13 17:57, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Now, what is so damn annoying about this new grub2 thingie is that when one goes to do either 'info/man grub2-install or grub2-mkconfig' you told that you are out of your skull and that there are no such commands! :-( MOST annoying!
They are documented in "info grub2".
I saw that, but when you don't know what you are doing and are relying on something written by someone who knows all then seeing this does not help and creates more confusion: File: grub2.info, Node: Installing GRUB using grub-install, Next: Making a GRUB bootable CD-ROM, Up: Installation 3.1 Installing GRUB using grub-install ====================================== For information on where GRUB should be installed on PC BIOS platforms, *note BIOS installation::. In order to install GRUB under a UNIX-like OS (such as GNU), invoke the program `grub-install' (*note Invoking grub-install::) as the superuser ("root"). The usage is basically very simple. You only need to specify one argument to the program, namely, where to install the boot loader. The argument has to be either a device file (like `/dev/hda'). For example, under Linux the following will install GRUB into the MBR of the first IDE disk: # grub-install /dev/hda Likewise, under GNU/Hurd, this has the same effect: # grub-install /dev/hd0 Even the references to dev/hda or /dev/hd0 are not outdated.
But as grub-install or grub-mkconfig. Patches for grub.info to replace all occurrences of "grub" with "grub2" in relevant places are welcome.
grub-mkconfig -o /media/btldr/boot/grub/grub.cfg[*] [*] You need to create a blank file called 'grub.cfg' for this command to work.
I just tested it (again) with non-existent file and it works.
Interesting. Gave me an error message that there was no such file but then I may have made a typo in the command. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.10.00 & kernel 3.8.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2013-03-04 a las 14:50 +1100, Basil Chupin escribió:
Following the above I installed os 12.3 RC2. All went well and I could booth into either 12.2 or 12.3 -- but with some "fiddling" re booting into 12.2 because I upgraded the kernel in 12.2 from 3.8.1-1 to 3.8.1-2 but this new kernel was not being recognised at boot time (details about this on request, if you want to know about this).
I installed RC2 a few days back, using grub2, as a secondary system on this laptop. I read no guide, just used common sense and Yast (and a full image backup). What I did was tell yast to install grub 2 on the partition dedicated to RC2, and to not write anything to the MBR (which it will do by default). I may have forgotten another click by now. Ah! Yes, it also wanted to change some bootable marks which I disabled. Piece of cake :-) Of course, my main system (see sig below) uses grub 1 and has an entry that points to the test partition, which now starts grub2. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlE54yQACgkQja8UbcUWM1z24wD8DzxJUPnX1taXlTBHkjt31oVY 1ewp6h+GQ/IlODFMavgBAIZ6VzQNvR9vbSQJSsPBGw2P6S/xjBcM1U+hLyxFb6Jc =hGGn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 09/03/13 00:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
El 2013-03-04 a las 14:50 +1100, Basil Chupin escribió:
Following the above I installed os 12.3 RC2. All went well and I could booth into either 12.2 or 12.3 -- but with some "fiddling" re booting into 12.2 because I upgraded the kernel in 12.2 from 3.8.1-1 to 3.8.1-2 but this new kernel was not being recognised at boot time (details about this on request, if you want to know about this).
I installed RC2 a few days back, using grub2, as a secondary system on this laptop. I read no guide, just used common sense and Yast (and a full image backup).
What I did was tell yast to install grub 2 on the partition dedicated to RC2, and to not write anything to the MBR (which it will do by default). I may have forgotten another click by now. Ah! Yes, it also wanted to change some bootable marks which I disabled.
Yes, this is correct: you install the bootloaders of the OSs in the ROOT directory of the OS being installed and do not allow the MBR to be written to EXCEPT by the FIRST operating system you install - which is then overwritten when you install the 'Master' bootloader (as I have) . (But there is another exception which is that if you also have Windows then it will write its loader in the MBR which is why one installs Windows first and then the Linux install of the first distro will overwrite the MBR.) It's a bit difficult to explain all this in a few words :-( . But what you did is OK when you only have 2 OSs installed but then things get a bit difficult if you install more or change them or remove them - which is why the "main" booloader is suggested. For example, if you have 4 OSs installed and don't have a "main" loader then you would need to run grub2-mkconfig on each of the OSs whenever you add another or remove one of them; whereas if you have a "main" loader then you only have to run grub2-mkconfig just the once fot this mail loader.
Piece of cake :-)
Always is - when you know how :-) .
Of course, my main system (see sig below) uses grub 1 and has an entry that points to the test partition, which now starts grub2.
Yep, no worries here. But what will happen if you decide to add 12.3 or Ubuntu/Kubuntu or Debian or <whatever> ? :-) (Just on this point: I had 11.x installed a while ago and then installed Ubuntu. I couldn't understand what the fuss was all about re bootloaders and grub2 vs grub and "main" bootloaders - afterall, 11.x was working fine and so was Ubuntu! What was all the fuss about? I thought. Well, I found out later why a "main" loader is most useful - and so easy to setup. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2013-03-09 a las 00:39 +1100, Basil Chupin escribió:
On 09/03/13 00:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
What I did was tell yast to install grub 2 on the partition dedicated to RC2, and to not write anything to the MBR (which it will do by default). I may have forgotten another click by now. Ah! Yes, it also wanted to change some bootable marks which I disabled.
Yes, this is correct: you install the bootloaders of the OSs in the ROOT directory of the OS being installed and do not allow the MBR to be written to EXCEPT by the FIRST operating system you install - which is then overwritten when you install the 'Master' bootloader (as I have) . (But there is another exception which is that if you also have Windows then it will write its loader in the MBR which is why one installs Windows first and then the Linux install of the first distro will overwrite the MBR.)
Which is why I made sure that the MBR was not modified. I have also Windows 7 on this laptop and I want to keep the original Windows MBR. If not, there are more problems when installing service packs (in fact, to install them I have to disable grub).
But what you did is OK when you only have 2 OSs installed but then things get a bit difficult if you install more or change them or remove them - which is why the "main" booloader is suggested. For example, if you have 4 OSs installed and don't have a "main" loader then you would need to run grub2-mkconfig on each of the OSs whenever you add another or remove one of them; whereas if you have a "main" loader then you only have to run grub2-mkconfig just the once fot this mail loader.
My strategy is, on the main grub, to point to the grub of the other system(s). I do not make entries for the kernels or specifics of the rest of the installations. In my case, it is grub 1. title openSUSE Factory (/dev/sda9) via chainloader rootnoverify (hd0,8) chainloader +1 If I were to install another multiboot computer, I would first create a small Linux system (5..10 G) with the main grub booter, loading the grubs of each other system installed, as in the above entry. This partition would double as rescue system. This is problably what you call a "main loader"?
Piece of cake :-)
Always is - when you know how :-) .
Of course, my main system (see sig below) uses grub 1 and has an entry that points to the test partition, which now starts grub2.
Yep, no worries here. But what will happen if you decide to add 12.3 or Ubuntu/Kubuntu or Debian or <whatever> ? :-)
If I had to install a different flavour, I would have to make sure that they can install grub only to their root partition. Preferably I would install in vmware instead.
(Just on this point: I had 11.x installed a while ago and then installed Ubuntu. I couldn't understand what the fuss was all about re bootloaders and grub2 vs grub and "main" bootloaders - afterall, 11.x was working fine and so was Ubuntu! What was all the fuss about? I thought. Well, I found out later why a "main" loader is most useful - and so easy to setup.
Yes, I understand. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlE59dMACgkQja8UbcUWM1wizwD+JK9G6ZfTP29AKLeDatAXdOpH a0emyP8DBMxByQYYBH0A/RxlsQiRjQLeRbR53pPk2Mhibqp6ZMrGGdKIxgp3xTKR =zTeI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 2013-03-08 15:29 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
If I were to install another multiboot computer, I would first create a small Linux system (5..10 G) with the main grub booter, loading the grubs of each other system installed, as in the above entry. This partition would double as rescue system.
This is problably what you call a "main loader"?
It really isn't necessary to install a full system to have a main bootloader. On a new HD I first partition, then boot Knoppix, from which I create a filesystem on at least my realboot partition plus the swapper, and untar what needs to go in /boot/grub plus a 100% penguin /boot/message. Then I open the Grub Legacy shell to run setup, after which I fetch the first installation kernel/initrd set(s) I will use to install an OS. Example realboot menus last modified within the past 3 months: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/menu.lst.big41boot.05 http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/menu.lst.gx27b-boot.23 http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/menu.lst.gx62b-boot.06 -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/03/13 02:34, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-08 15:29 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
If I were to install another multiboot computer, I would first create a small Linux system (5..10 G) with the main grub booter, loading the grubs of each other system installed, as in the above entry. This partition would double as rescue system.
This is problably what you call a "main loader"?
It really isn't necessary to install a full system to have a main bootloader. On a new HD I first partition, then boot Knoppix, from which I create a filesystem on at least my realboot partition plus the swapper, and untar what needs to go in /boot/grub plus a 100% penguin /boot/message. Then I open the Grub Legacy shell to run setup, after which I fetch the first installation kernel/initrd set(s) I will use to install an OS.
Correct. But why go thru all this hoopla when you can do this from an already installed system and save all this time in installing from Knoppix etc?
Example realboot menus last modified within the past 3 months: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/menu.lst.big41boot.05 http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/menu.lst.gx27b-boot.23 http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/menu.lst.gx62b-boot.06
BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-09 13:31 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
It really isn't necessary to install a full system to have a main bootloader. On a new HD I first partition, then boot Knoppix, from which I create a filesystem on at least my realboot partition plus the swapper, and untar what needs to go in /boot/grub plus a 100% penguin /boot/message. Then I open the Grub Legacy shell to run setup, after which I fetch the first installation kernel/initrd set(s) I will use to install an OS.
Correct. But why go thru all this hoopla when you can do this from an already installed system and save all this time in installing from Knoppix etc?
When I wrote "new HD", the implication was also _only HD_, the typical laptop case whether the HD is new or not. Also on many recent desktop systems, only enough space is provided for a single internal HD, so with laptops outselling desktops for more than half a decade, only HD is actually the most common target configuration. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/03/13 13:48, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-09 13:31 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
It really isn't necessary to install a full system to have a main bootloader. On a new HD I first partition, then boot Knoppix, from which I create a filesystem on at least my realboot partition plus the swapper, and untar what needs to go in /boot/grub plus a 100% penguin /boot/message. Then I open the Grub Legacy shell to run setup, after which I fetch the first installation kernel/initrd set(s) I will use to install an OS.
Correct. But why go thru all this hoopla when you can do this from an already installed system and save all this time in installing from Knoppix etc?
When I wrote "new HD", the implication was also _only HD_, the typical laptop case whether the HD is new or not. Also on many recent desktop systems, only enough space is provided for a single internal HD, so with laptops outselling desktops for more than half a decade, only HD is actually the most common target configuration.
I am not too sure what you are trying to say about the difference between "new HD" and "only HD" because having just the one HD has nothing to do with the argument because, for example, on my system all my OSs - with the exception of XP which I had to put on the second HDD - are all on the one HDD. The only possible factor to come into the argument is the size of the HDD - but as, say, openSUSE doesn't require more than 20GB or so then the argument is moot because even internal HDD now come in the 132GB and above sizes -- even with Windows 7 or 8 installed. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-09 20:35 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
On 09/03/13 13:48, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-09 13:31 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
It really isn't necessary to install a full system to have a main bootloader. On a new HD I first partition, then boot Knoppix, from which I create a filesystem on at least my realboot partition plus the swapper, and untar what needs to go in /boot/grub plus a 100% penguin /boot/message. Then I open the Grub Legacy shell to run setup, after which I fetch the first installation kernel/initrd set(s) I will use to install an OS.
Correct. But why go thru all this hoopla when you can do this from an already installed system and save all this time in installing from Knoppix etc?
When I wrote "new HD", the implication was also _only HD_, the typical laptop case whether the HD is new or not. Also on many recent desktop systems, only enough space is provided for a single internal HD, so with laptops outselling desktops for more than half a decade, only HD is actually the most common target configuration.
I am not too sure what you are trying to say about the difference between "new HD" and "only HD" because having just the one HD has nothing to do with the argument because, for example, on my system all my OSs - with the exception of XP which I had to put on the second HDD - are all on the one HDD.
Your (already booting/working) system is not what I was writing about. The system I was writing about had/has nothing installed anywhere. I was responding to "all this hoopla", which was/is about getting _anything_ installed initially; and about getting and keeping a separate master/real boot partition (of 400MiB or less) that no installed OS owns or thinks it owns and can discombobulate at upgrade times. And, it was/is about installing openSUSE or any other Linux without downloading or booting any installation isos or any further booting from anywhere except HD, using Knoppix to ready Grub (Legacy) to initiate (network) installation of the first operating system on a theretofore empty HD.
The only possible factor to come into the argument is the size of the HDD - but as, say, openSUSE doesn't require more than 20GB or so then the argument is moot because even internal HDD now come in the 132GB and above sizes -- even with Windows 7 or 8 installed.
On my test systems, / partitions are usually 4.8GiB regardless of total HD size, so even a little 20GB HD has room for at least 3 distros plus DOS and/or minimal WinXP plus some swap and a minimal /home - and realboot on 1st or 3rd primary partition. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/03/13 02:22, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-09 20:35 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
On 09/03/13 13:48, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-09 13:31 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
It really isn't necessary to install a full system to have a main bootloader. On a new HD I first partition, then boot Knoppix, from which I create a filesystem on at least my realboot partition plus the swapper, and untar what needs to go in /boot/grub plus a 100% penguin /boot/message. Then I open the Grub Legacy shell to run setup, after which I fetch the first installation kernel/initrd set(s) I will use to install an OS.
Correct. But why go thru all this hoopla when you can do this from an already installed system and save all this time in installing from Knoppix etc?
When I wrote "new HD", the implication was also _only HD_, the typical laptop case whether the HD is new or not. Also on many recent desktop systems, only enough space is provided for a single internal HD, so with laptops outselling desktops for more than half a decade, only HD is actually the most common target configuration.
I am not too sure what you are trying to say about the difference between "new HD" and "only HD" because having just the one HD has nothing to do with the argument because, for example, on my system all my OSs - with the exception of XP which I had to put on the second HDD - are all on the one HDD.
Your (already booting/working) system is not what I was writing about. The system I was writing about had/has nothing installed anywhere.
I wasn't really talking about my system but a clean HDD which will have its first OS installed. If my system came into the picture it was accidental.
I was responding to "all this hoopla", which was/is about getting _anything_ installed initially; and about getting and keeping a separate master/real boot partition (of 400MiB or less) that no installed OS owns or thinks it owns and can discombobulate
"discombobulate" - I like that :-) . 'Discombobulate' - kinda rolls off the tongue, don't it? :-)
at upgrade times. And, it was/is about installing openSUSE or any other Linux without downloading or booting any installation isos or any further booting from anywhere except HD, using Knoppix to ready Grub (Legacy) to initiate (network) installation of the first operating system on a theretofore empty HD
Have you read that article which I mentioned several times? It isn't long but it gives you the story behind bootloaders and then proceeds to give examples on how to partition your HDD to be able to have multiple OSs on the same system. I think that if you read that article it would save heaps of wording in this thread. Trust me :-) . [pruned] BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-10 15:19 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Have you read that article which I mentioned several times?
I clicked your link, but didn't try to read it, as it's not a web document: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20030714.html -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/03/13 23:50, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-10 15:19 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Have you read that article which I mentioned several times?
I clicked your link, but didn't try to read it, as it's not a web document: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20030714.html
Ce`? Where did you this URL from? I didn't provide it :-) . The one I gave several times is: http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/down/articles/LSK_multi_distro_install_US.pd... BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 with KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-11 22:10 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-10 15:19 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Have you read that article which I mentioned several times?
I clicked your link, but didn't try to read it, as it's not a web document: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20030714.html
Ce`? Where did you this URL from? I didn't provide it :-) . The one I gave several times is:
http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/down/articles/LSK_multi_distro_install_US.pd...
The useit.com URL I provided _describes_ the primary reason why I didn't read your URL. Another reason would be I really don't need to read what others have to say about multiboot, having (initially) written my own multiboot URL over 11 years ago: http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/partitioningindex.html -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/03/13 03:11, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-11 22:10 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-10 15:19 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Have you read that article which I mentioned several times?
I clicked your link, but didn't try to read it, as it's not a web document: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20030714.html
Ce`? Where did you this URL from? I didn't provide it :-) . The one I gave several times is:
http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/down/articles/LSK_multi_distro_install_US.pd...
The useit.com URL I provided _describes_ the primary reason why I didn't read your URL.
Oh, that's the reason - because someone has a pet hate about PDF files. Good reason I guess...
Another reason would be I really don't need to read what others have to say about multiboot, having (initially) written my own multiboot URL over 11 years ago: http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/partitioningindex.html
A most commendable and detailed effort. But I don't see any references to grub2. Why not? Time to bring that up-to-date perhaps? BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 with KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-12 15:14 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Another reason would be I really don't need to read what others have to say about multiboot, having (initially) written my own multiboot URL over 11 years ago: http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/partitioningindex.html
A most commendable and detailed effort.
But I don't see any references to grub2. Why not? Time to bring that up-to-date perhaps?
There's not much I could change without actually understanding Grub2. Grub2 has nothing I need that Grub Legacy lacks, so as it's still maturing and I have a round tuit shortage anyway, I have only disincentive to learn it in the foreseeable future. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/03/13 15:57, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-12 15:14 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Another reason would be I really don't need to read what others have to say about multiboot, having (initially) written my own multiboot URL over 11 years ago: http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/partitioningindex.html
A most commendable and detailed effort.
But I don't see any references to grub2. Why not? Time to bring that up-to-date perhaps?
There's not much I could change without actually understanding Grub2. Grub2 has nothing I need that Grub Legacy lacks,
Aaaah, you have made up your mind without actually using grub2 or at least reading any easy-to-read articles about grub2. And Basil Brush says to Felix the Cat: whatever makes you happy and 'makes your day', ol' boy :-) . [pruned] BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 with KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-12 16:56 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-12 15:14 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
There's not much I could change without actually understanding Grub2. Grub2 has nothing I need that Grub Legacy lacks,
Aaaah, you have made up your mind without actually using grub2
Nothing I wrote implies I've not used it. *buntu first dumped it (v1.96 IIRC) on me more than two years ago by making it non-optional, though at least installable to the / partition (the only place I ever let it install). That and exposure to it in Fedora (where it cannot be installed except to MBR), in Mageia (where it needn't be installed to MBR), and via years of subscribing to grub-devel (where installation to other than MBR is heavily discouraged) and help-grub mailing lists is how I know I don't need it or want it, and how I know most existing multi-boot users' systems don't need it either. Multi-boot is as much art as science. Art can be much better by emphasizing simplicity as much as practical. The difference in size between Grub Legacy and Grub2 makes it clear which must be the less complex. Until I am able to avail myself of the even simpler Gummiboot and UEFI, I can well make do with Grub Legacy, and not burden my systems and thought processes with the more complex and still evolving (aka moving target) mini OS named Grub2. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/03/13 01:29, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
El 2013-03-09 a las 00:39 +1100, Basil Chupin escribió:
On 09/03/13 00:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
What I did was tell yast to install grub 2 on the partition dedicated to RC2, and to not write anything to the MBR (which it will do by default). I may have forgotten another click by now. Ah! Yes, it also wanted to change some bootable marks which I disabled.
Yes, this is correct: you install the bootloaders of the OSs in the ROOT directory of the OS being installed and do not allow the MBR to be written to EXCEPT by the FIRST operating system you install - which is then overwritten when you install the 'Master' bootloader (as I have) . (But there is another exception which is that if you also have Windows then it will write its loader in the MBR which is why one installs Windows first and then the Linux install of the first distro will overwrite the MBR.)
Which is why I made sure that the MBR was not modified. I have also Windows 7 on this laptop and I want to keep the original Windows MBR. If not, there are more problems when installing service packs (in fact, to install them I have to disable grub).
But what you did is OK when you only have 2 OSs installed but then things get a bit difficult if you install more or change them or remove them - which is why the "main" booloader is suggested. For example, if you have 4 OSs installed and don't have a "main" loader then you would need to run grub2-mkconfig on each of the OSs whenever you add another or remove one of them; whereas if you have a "main" loader then you only have to run grub2-mkconfig just the once fot this mail loader.
My strategy is, on the main grub, to point to the grub of the other system(s). I do not make entries for the kernels or specifics of the rest of the installations. In my case, it is grub 1.
title openSUSE Factory (/dev/sda9) via chainloader rootnoverify (hd0,8) chainloader +1
If I were to install another multiboot computer, I would first create a small Linux system (5..10 G) with the main grub booter, loading the grubs of each other system installed, as in the above entry. This partition would double as rescue system.
This is problably what you call a "main loader"?
The best way to answer this would be to refer you to page #16 of this article, the part starting with the heading, "Case 3" (which is what I set up): http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/down/articles/LSK_multi_distro_install_US.pd... It explains much better than I could. (The only thing re the article is that it really has caused some confusion because I think it started off being an article about grub but then changed to be one about grub2 - but the author forgot to alter references to "grub-..." commands to read "grub2-....." commands. Either that or the author(s) of grub2 decided to rename grub=>grub2 at some point after the article was written.) [pruned] BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
В Sat, 09 Mar 2013 13:28:25 +1100 Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> пишет:
http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/down/articles/LSK_multi_distro_install_US.pd...
It explains much better than I could. (The only thing re the article is that it really has caused some confusion because I think it started off being an article about grub but then changed to be one about grub2 - but the author forgot to alter references to "grub-..." commands to read "grub2-....." commands. Either that or the author(s) of grub2 decided to rename grub=>grub2 at some point after the article was written.)
Upstream GRUB2 is called GRUB. grub2 is used by distributions that support both legacy GRUB and modern GRUB and need to allow both to be installed in parallel. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/03/13 15:41, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
� Sat, 09 Mar 2013 13:28:25 +1100 Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> �����:
http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/down/articles/LSK_multi_distro_install_US.pd...
It explains much better than I could. (The only thing re the article is that it really has caused some confusion because I think it started off being an article about grub but then changed to be one about grub2 - but the author forgot to alter references to "grub-..." commands to read "grub2-....." commands. Either that or the author(s) of grub2 decided to rename grub=>grub2 at some point after the article was written.) Upstream GRUB2 is called GRUB. grub2 is used by distributions that support both legacy GRUB and modern GRUB and need to allow both to be installed in parallel.
Ah, I see. Thanks for this clarification. If I can find the e-mail address of the author of that article I would send him a msg asking for some adjusts to what he wrote to make it relevant for all cases where grub/grub2 is used. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin wrote:
A while back I had a bit of a gripe about grub2 (vs grub) because it wasn't clear how I would be able to install other distros on my computer apart from my main openSUSE. At that time I wished that I had used grub when I installed 12.2.
Well, earlier today I took the plunge and decided to create the situation whereby I could install Tumbleweed and openSUSE RC2 later today - or, if I failed, to re-install 12.2 from scratch using grub.
With my heart in my mouth I started the procedure - only to find that I still had a working 12.2 but now with the ability to install more distros.
In fact the whole process was "a piece of cake" so to speak.
If others are contemplating doing same I recommend reading which is where I got my "inspiration" from:
http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/index.php?name=CmodsDownload&file=index&req=getit&lid=38
use Okular to view it, and save it.
The article is titled, "Installing Multiple Distributions on the same computer".
Read this article SEVERAL+ times before doing anything.
I read the article before I installed 12.2 and chose to go the Case #3 way when installing 12.2. 12.2 was installed, but then I got stuck with working out what to do next - and only found the stomach to "take the plunge" today.
However, just before the end of the process I broke out in a profuse sweat because on page #16 of the article it states, "Then run the command sudo grub-mkconfig -o ..........". When doing so I got the error message that I was way up there with the fairies as the command "grub-mkconfig" is something I dreamt up after being sprinkled with Tinker Bell's pixie dust.
Well, the answer was that the command should read "grub2-mkconfig". Once I found this out everything worked to its finality as expected.
One more thing:
go into YaST2>Bootloader and make sure that it is sited as described in the article. If not, adjust and save the changes.
BC
I use legacy grub to boot multiple distros. grub2 is too confusing to use. To add a new distro in legacy grub, all you have to do is add a new stanza in /boot/grub/menu.lst as below: title SuSe 12.2 at sda6 root (hd0,5) kernel /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img savedefault boot The important thing is to locate where core.img is. Some distros have core.img as : /boot/grub/core.img Most distros install grub2 in the MBR, you have no choice. I use mepis 11 which uses grub legacy and booted suse 12.2 as above. jozien -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/03/13 06:33, Joe Zien wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
A while back I had a bit of a gripe about grub2 (vs grub) because it wasn't clear how I would be able to install other distros on my computer apart from my main openSUSE. At that time I wished that I had used grub when I installed 12.2.
Well, earlier today I took the plunge and decided to create the situation whereby I could install Tumbleweed and openSUSE RC2 later today - or, if I failed, to re-install 12.2 from scratch using grub.
With my heart in my mouth I started the procedure - only to find that I still had a working 12.2 but now with the ability to install more distros.
In fact the whole process was "a piece of cake" so to speak.
If others are contemplating doing same I recommend reading which is where I got my "inspiration" from:
http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/index.php?name=CmodsDownload&file=index&req=getit&lid=38
use Okular to view it, and save it.
The article is titled, "Installing Multiple Distributions on the same computer".
Read this article SEVERAL+ times before doing anything.
I read the article before I installed 12.2 and chose to go the Case #3 way when installing 12.2. 12.2 was installed, but then I got stuck with working out what to do next - and only found the stomach to "take the plunge" today.
However, just before the end of the process I broke out in a profuse sweat because on page #16 of the article it states, "Then run the command sudo grub-mkconfig -o ..........". When doing so I got the error message that I was way up there with the fairies as the command "grub-mkconfig" is something I dreamt up after being sprinkled with Tinker Bell's pixie dust.
Well, the answer was that the command should read "grub2-mkconfig". Once I found this out everything worked to its finality as expected.
One more thing:
go into YaST2>Bootloader and make sure that it is sited as described in the article. If not, adjust and save the changes.
BC
I use legacy grub to boot multiple distros. grub2 is too confusing to use.
No, no it isn't it. It is quite easy.
To add a new distro in legacy grub, all you have to do is add a new stanza in /boot/grub/menu.lst as below:
With grub2 you don't need to do this (unless you really want to) because all you do is to execute 'grub2-mkconfig -o <path-to-grub.cfg>'
title SuSe 12.2 at sda6 root (hd0,5) kernel /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img savedefault boot
The important thing is to locate where core.img is. Some distros have core.img as : /boot/grub/core.img
Most distros install grub2 in the MBR, you have no choice.
Could you please name them?
I use mepis 11 which uses grub legacy and booted suse 12.2 as above.
But of course. When you have 2 OSs then there is no problem with anything - its just like dual-booting with Windows and, say, openSUSE with whichever bootloader it uses- lilo, grub, or grub2. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 with KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Most distros install grub2 in the MBR, you have no choice.
Could you please name them?
AFAIK Fedora is one. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/03/13 22:50, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Most distros install grub2 in the MBR, you have no choice.
Could you please name them?
AFAIK Fedora is one.
Sorry, Andrey, Fedora uses grub2. 3.3. GRUB GRUB is contained in the grub2 package and is signed with the Fedora CA key. Once the binary is cryptographically verified it is executed by shim. The GRUB package does not contain any key material. When GRUB needs to verify the integrity of the Kernel it will call back into shim to execute the actual check. http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/UEFI_Secure_Boot_Guide/se... BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 with KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 11 March 2013 23:05:00 Basil Chupin wrote:
On 11/03/13 22:50, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Most distros install grub2 in the MBR, you have no choice.
Could you please name them?
AFAIK Fedora is one.
Sorry, Andrey, Fedora uses grub2.
??? Fedora installs grub2 in the MBR unconditionally No no no, fedora uses grub2 Non sequitur -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/03/13 23:11, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Monday 11 March 2013 23:05:00 Basil Chupin wrote:
On 11/03/13 22:50, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Most distros install grub2 in the MBR, you have no choice. Could you please name them? AFAIK Fedora is one. Sorry, Andrey, Fedora uses grub2. ???
Fedora installs grub2 in the MBR unconditionally No no no, fedora uses grub2
Non sequitur
OK, my mistake. The talk about grub (legacy) confus-ed me. That's alright - all that happens is that Fedora will become the dominant OS and therefore the first one to appear for booting on the grub's boot menu. But at the same time I believe that you can also create a separate boot partition where you can put a "main" bootloader. At least this is according to my theory :-) . And now that you have pointed out my confu-sion I shall have to install Fedora to disprove my theorum :-) . (But, heck, Fedora is as bad as Windows by writing its boot info in the MBR.) BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 with KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-11 13:11 (GMT+0100) Anders Johansson composed:
On Monday 11 March 2013 23:05:00 Basil Chupin wrote:
On 11/03/13 22:50, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:
Most distros install grub2 in the MBR, you have no choice.
Could you please name them?
AFAIK Fedora is one.
Sorry, Andrey, Fedora uses grub2.
???
Fedora installs grub2 in the MBR unconditionally No no no, fedora uses grub2
Not exactly. Unless this was changed very recently, Fedora provides the option I use installing it: install _no_ bootloader. It's a simple enough matter to boot Fedora using any Grub version (or other bootloader) installed elsewhere, or even on Fedora's /. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-11 22:17 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Joe Zien wrote:
I use legacy grub to boot multiple distros. grub2 is too confusing to use.
No, no it isn't it. It is quite easy.
Your opinion. Grub2 is much like systemd, much more complicated. e.g. "systemctl isolate graphical.target" (~35 keystrokes) instead of "init 5" (7 keystrokes, 20% fewer) to switch from multiuser to X....
To add a new distro in legacy grub, all you have to do is add a new stanza in /boot/grub/menu.lst as below:
With grub2 you don't need to do this (unless you really want to) because all you do is to execute 'grub2-mkconfig -o <path-to-grub.cfg>'
I can probably add a new stanza to menu.lst via copy/paste/edit faster than most people can type all that, if they can even remember it, and the title will read exactly the way I want instead of some packager's notion of what the title should be. And, I can do it while booted to something else when booting it is broken, and without having to chroot first. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/03/13 04:04, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-11 22:17 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Joe Zien wrote:
I use legacy grub to boot multiple distros. grub2 is too confusing to use.
No, no it isn't it. It is quite easy.
Your opinion. Grub2 is much like systemd, much more complicated. e.g. "systemctl isolate graphical.target" (~35 keystrokes) instead of "init 5" (7 keystrokes, 20% fewer) to switch from multiuser to X....
I really do not understand or am simply missing the point or you are a bit behind the times...... Don't know which, sorry. I already mentioned in my post about the new nVidia driver that "init3" and "init 5" are back and useable. NOW - I installed 12.3 RC2 without any fiddling so am assuming that it uses systemd as the default and if so then "init 3" and "init 5" work.
To add a new distro in legacy grub, all you have to do
is add a new stanza in /boot/grub/menu.lst as below:
With grub2 you don't need to do this (unless you really want to) because all you do is to execute 'grub2-mkconfig -o <path-to-grub.cfg>'
I can probably add a new stanza to menu.lst via copy/paste/edit faster than most people can type all that, if they can even remember it, and the title will read exactly the way I want instead of some packager's notion of what the title should be. And, I can do it while booted to something else when booting it is broken, and without having to chroot first.
I have a strong feeling that you also use KDE 3 or possibly even KDE 2 and won't budge from it. Am I right? BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 with KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-12 15:07 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-11 22:17 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Joe Zien wrote:
grub2 is too confusing to use.
No, no it isn't it. It is quite easy.
Your opinion. Grub2 is much like systemd, much more complicated. e.g. "systemctl isolate graphical.target" (~35 keystrokes) instead of "init 5" (7 keystrokes, 20% fewer) to switch from multiuser to X....
I really do not understand or am simply missing the point or you are a bit behind the times...... Don't know which, sorry.
Missing the point....
I already mentioned in my post about the new nVidia driver that "init3" and "init 5" are back and useable.
NOW - I installed 12.3 RC2 without any fiddling so am assuming that it uses systemd as the default and if so then "init 3" and "init 5" work.
Those init commands are aliases for systemd commands to perform the closest equivalent sysvinit function. It's the long-winded command strings and filenames used by systemd generally that make understanding and using it complicated and tough to learn. The aliases are welcome, but do nothing to solve systemd's wordy design. Systemd complexity as replacement for sysvint broadly parallels the more complex Grub2 as "replacement" for Grub Legacy. There is no significant benefit to using Grub2 on systems what Grub Legacy worked on. Grub Legacy is mature enough to need no maintenance, which means no additional learning, relearning or unlearning as Grub2 requires.
I have a strong feeling that you also use KDE 3 or possibly even KDE 2 and won't budge from it. Am I right?
I could budge if there weren't three blocker bugs[1] preventing my routine use of it, and a bunch of less egregious bugs leaving KDE and TDE easier to use. I do have it installed on nearly half my test installations, KDE3 on nearly half, with XFCE, TDE & LXDE comprising the rest. [1] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158556 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283366 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=297217 -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/03/13 15:50, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-12 15:07 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-11 22:17 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Joe Zien wrote:
grub2 is too confusing to use.
No, no it isn't it. It is quite easy.
Your opinion. Grub2 is much like systemd, much more complicated. e.g. "systemctl isolate graphical.target" (~35 keystrokes) instead of "init 5" (7 keystrokes, 20% fewer) to switch from multiuser to X....
I really do not understand or am simply missing the point or you are a bit behind the times...... Don't know which, sorry.
Missing the point....
I already mentioned in my post about the new nVidia driver that "init3" and "init 5" are back and useable.
NOW - I installed 12.3 RC2 without any fiddling so am assuming that it uses systemd as the default and if so then "init 3" and "init 5" work.
Those init commands are aliases for systemd commands to perform the closest equivalent sysvinit function. It's the long-winded command strings and filenames used by systemd generally that make understanding and using it complicated and tough to learn. The aliases are welcome, but do nothing to solve systemd's wordy design.
Does it really matter as long as it all works?
Systemd complexity as replacement for sysvint broadly parallels the more complex Grub2 as "replacement" for Grub Legacy. There is no significant benefit to using Grub2 on systems what Grub Legacy worked on. Grub Legacy is mature enough to need no maintenance, which means no additional learning, relearning or unlearning as Grub2 requires.
A question: can grub boot into uefi setups which are now, or about to be, all the rage?
I have a strong feeling that you also use KDE 3 or possibly even KDE 2
and won't budge from it. Am I right?
I could budge if there weren't three blocker bugs[1]
Ah, so by taking a gamble I got a royal flush :-) . You DO use outdated KDE 3.
preventing my routine use of it, and a bunch of less egregious bugs leaving KDE and TDE easier to use. I do have it installed on nearly half my test installations, KDE3 on nearly half, with XFCE, TDE & LXDE comprising the rest.
What the heck is "the plasma panel" mentioned in this? : Plasma panel can now be resized, but it cannot be hidden like it was possible for the panel in kde 3.x
Rajko gave you a sensible answer to your complaint.
I don't see this here as I am using KDE 4.10.1, but perhaps I am not understanding what the problem described is all about - especially since nobody commented to your bug report back in April 2012. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 with KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-12 17:34 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
I have a strong feeling that you also use KDE 3 or possibly even KDE 2 and won't budge from it. Am I right?
I could budge if there weren't three blocker bugs[1]
Ah, so by taking a gamble I got a royal flush :-) . You DO use outdated KDE 3.
Not outdated. Mature, like OS/2, no less useful now than they ever were. Nothing I've noticed in KDE4 makes my life any easier, but some of it clearly makes it a lot harder.
preventing my routine use of it, and a bunch of less egregious bugs leaving KDE and TDE easier to use. I do have it installed on nearly half my test installations, KDE3 on nearly half, with XFCE, TDE & LXDE comprising the rest.
What the heck is "the plasma panel" mentioned in this? :
New name for old paradigm, KDE3's Kicker, much like Win's taskbar or OS/2's WarpCentre.
Plasma panel can now be resized, but it cannot be hidden like it was possible for the panel in kde 3.x
If it cannot be hidden in similar manner as in KDE3, it's in my way more often than can be tolerated.
Rajko gave you a sensible answer to your complaint.
Sensible maybe for people who aren't jumping among hundreds of logins spread across hundreds of unique installations. The old way (KDE3) just works. The new way (KDE4) does not.
I don't see this here as I am using KDE 4.10.1, but perhaps I am not understanding what the problem described is all about - especially since
Did you look at the screenshot? What's your display density? What's your visual acuity? What's your viewing distance? The problem is certainly not a problem most would encounter (now or any time soon), but it's certainly one devs need consider lest those who do cannot function unimpaired.
nobody commented to your bug report back in April 2012.
It's just another manifestation of DE and app developers (like web site stylists) sizing things in pixels instead of ems. When pixels are the sizing unit, as display density goes up, usability drops. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
On 12/03/13 15:50, Felix Miata wrote:
Those init commands are aliases for systemd commands to perform the closest equivalent sysvinit function. It's the long-winded command strings and filenames used by systemd generally that make understanding and using it complicated and tough to learn. The aliases are welcome, but do nothing to solve systemd's wordy design.
If you look hard enough, you can find oddities everywhere. Systemd works so much better on modern hardware. I cannot imagine downgrading on anything I'm running Linux on. 12 extra letters (which you don't have to type anyway since the alias is there) is nothing in the bazillion keystrokes I seem to do every day - and the argument about remembering commands, all I can say is LOL. Linux is the god of obscure and cyptic commands. This is nothing new. :-P
A question: can grub boot into uefi setups which are now, or about to be, all the rage?
It can't handle any UEFI system I've got. I have to use Grub2. Grub is dead in the water if you're using current/new hardware (in any testing I've done). While yes, Grub2 was a pig to use initially, a lot has been done to make it seamless for install and use. Adding new entries (if you even really need to) is actually easier now with Grub2 (for me) than it ever was with Grub.
I don't see this here as I am using KDE 4.10.1, but perhaps I am not understanding what the problem described is all about - especially since nobody commented to your bug report back in April 2012.
This one was an issue in really old versions of KDE4. It hasn't been around for a long time on any system I use. If it still exists on any machine using current released of KDE4, I'd venture to say it's caused by some leftover cruft from using old releases of KDE. C. -- openSUSE 12.2 x86_64, KDE 4.10.1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-12 08:45 (GMT+0100) C composed:
I don't see this here as I am using KDE 4.10.1, but perhaps I am not understanding what the problem described is all about - especially since nobody commented to your bug report back in April 2012.
This one was an issue in really old versions of KDE4. It hasn't been around for a long time on any system I use. If it still exists on any machine using current released of KDE4, I'd venture to say it's caused by some leftover cruft from using old releases of KDE.
No improvement seen on any of my systems: http://bugsfiles.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=77976 Please note the image's comment in the bug (no cruft possible). As noted in my previous thread post, the problem is caused upstream by anachronistic use of pixels to size objects that will be used in high pixel density environments. So, the problem gets worse as density rises. At only 25% above standard 96 DPI density, the left column is already inanely narrow. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-12 05:05 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:
On 2013-03-12 08:45 (GMT+0100) C composed:
I don't see this here as I am using KDE 4.10.1, but perhaps I am not understanding what the problem described is all about - especially since nobody commented to your bug report back in April 2012.
This one was an issue in really old versions of KDE4. It hasn't been around for a long time on any system I use. If it still exists on any machine using current released of KDE4, I'd venture to say it's caused by some leftover cruft from using old releases of KDE.
No improvement seen on any of my systems: http://bugsfiles.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=77976
obsolete URL, use: http://bugsfiles.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=77977
Please note the image's comment in the bug (no cruft possible). As noted in my previous thread post, the problem is caused upstream by anachronistic use of pixels to size objects that will be used in high pixel density environments. So, the problem gets worse as density rises. At only 25% above standard 96 DPI density, the left column is already inanely narrow. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/03/13 18:45, C wrote:
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
On 12/03/13 15:50, Felix Miata wrote:
Those init commands are aliases for systemd commands to perform the closest equivalent sysvinit function. It's the long-winded command strings and filenames used by systemd generally that make understanding and using it complicated and tough to learn. The aliases are welcome, but do nothing to solve systemd's wordy design. If you look hard enough, you can find oddities everywhere. Systemd works so much better on modern hardware. I cannot imagine downgrading on anything I'm running Linux on.
12 extra letters (which you don't have to type anyway since the alias is there) is nothing in the bazillion keystrokes I seem to do every day - and the argument about remembering commands, all I can say is LOL. Linux is the god of obscure and cyptic commands. This is nothing new. :-P
A question: can grub boot into uefi setups which are now, or about to be, all the rage? It can't handle any UEFI system I've got. I have to use Grub2.
I suspected as much.
Grub is dead in the water if you're using current/new hardware (in any testing I've done). While yes, Grub2 was a pig to use initially, a lot has been done to make it seamless for install and use. Adding new entries (if you even really need to) is actually easier now with Grub2 (for me) than it ever was with Grub.
Which is what I tried to state in another post: using grub2 is now a piece of cake.
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=297217
I don't see this here as I am using KDE 4.10.1, but perhaps I am not understanding what the problem described is all about - especially since nobody commented to your bug report back in April 2012. This one was an issue in really old versions of KDE4. It hasn't been around for a long time on any system I use. If it still exists on any machine using current released of KDE4, I'd venture to say it's caused by some leftover cruft from using old releases of KDE.
C.
BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 with KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
A question: can grub boot into uefi setups which are now, or about to be, all the rage?
It can't handle any UEFI system I've got. I have to use Grub2.
I suspected as much.
I should clarify that if I switch off UEFI (there is a legacy option thing in the UEFI/BIOS) then UEFI seems to take a backseat, and Grub1 will work fine. It gets a bit weird with UEFI turned on, and the UEFI is aware of openSUSE when it's installed - it's even listed as a bootable OS when you poke around in the UEFI/BIOS after installing openSUSE. Grub1 didn't want to play nice, but I never spent any time at all to discover why because Grub2 was a fire-and-forget. Grub2 and the openSUSE install seemed to have no issue at all with a multiboot configuration (I did not install other OSes post openSUSE install, but others were on the drives prior to installing). C. -- openSUSE 12.2 x86_64, KDE 4.10 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/03/13 21:07, C wrote:
A question: can grub boot into uefi setups which are now, or about to be, all the rage? It can't handle any UEFI system I've got. I have to use Grub2. I suspected as much. I should clarify that if I switch off UEFI (there is a legacy option
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote: thing in the UEFI/BIOS) then UEFI seems to take a backseat, and Grub1 will work fine. It gets a bit weird with UEFI turned on, and the UEFI is aware of openSUSE when it's installed - it's even listed as a bootable OS when you poke around in the UEFI/BIOS after installing openSUSE. Grub1 didn't want to play nice, but I never spent any time at all to discover why because Grub2 was a fire-and-forget. Grub2 and the openSUSE install seemed to have no issue at all with a multiboot configuration (I did not install other OSes post openSUSE install, but others were on the drives prior to installing).
Thanks for this C. Valuable information which I have taken onboard. I read an interesting response to something I said about grub2 in another place - in other words I got 'raked over the coals' :-) - which said that Ubuntu follows upstream convention and does NOT use the term grub2 but uses grub. I therefore can assume that this use of grub2 is in openSUSE only? BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 with KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-03-13 15:48 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
I read an interesting response to something I said about grub2 in another place - in other words I got 'raked over the coals' :-) - which said that Ubuntu follows upstream convention and does NOT use the term grub2 but uses grub.
I therefore can assume that this use of grub2 is in openSUSE only?
Mageia and Mandriva do as openSUSE. There could be other distros doing the same. e.g. ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/linux/mirrors/mandriva/devel/cooker/i586/media/main/release/grub-0.97-37-mdv2012.0.i586.rpm ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/linux/mirrors/mandriva/devel/cooker/i586/media/main/release/grub2-2.00-1-mdv2012.0.i586.rpm -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 13/03/13 16:27, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-03-13 15:48 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
I read an interesting response to something I said about grub2 in another place - in other words I got 'raked over the coals' :-) - which said that Ubuntu follows upstream convention and does NOT use the term grub2 but uses grub.
I therefore can assume that this use of grub2 is in openSUSE only?
Mageia and Mandriva do as openSUSE. There could be other distros doing the same.
e.g. ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/linux/mirrors/mandriva/devel/cooker/i586/media/main/release/grub-0.97-37-mdv2012.0.i586.rpm
ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/linux/mirrors/mandriva/devel/cooker/i586/media/main/release/grub2-2.00-1-mdv2012.0.i586.rpm
Thanks for this, Felix. So, Ubuntu may be the one which is "out of step", so to speak, just in other ways: for example, I learnt that it does not activate a firewall as a default but requires one to manually and delibarately activate and configure it. How primitive. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 with KDE 4.10.1 & kernel 3.8.2-1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Anders Johansson -
Andrey Borzenkov -
Basil Chupin -
C -
Carlos E. R. -
Felix Miata -
Joe Zien