i read many mailing lists and the suse-linux-e mailing list sticks out in one annoying aspect - and that is, people quote all messages when replying and then someone else quotes the original and the reply and his and so on. there are messages on the list of depth 7 - so less than 10% by average is actual message text. please take care when including the original message when replying. it's a fabulous tool to establish context for something you have to say, but it's not there to make multiple and more multiple copies of emails here and there. thanks for your time, martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo madduck@!#:1:s@\@@@.net -- "it appears that pl/i (and its dialects) is, or will be, the most widely used higher level language for systems programming." -- j. sammet
MaD dUCK schrieb:
i read many mailing lists and the suse-linux-e mailing list sticks out in one annoying aspect - and that is, people quote all messages when replying and then someone else quotes the original and the reply and his and so on. there are messages on the list of depth 7 - so less than 10% by average is actual message text.
please take care when including the original message when replying. it's a fabulous tool to establish context for something you have to say, but it's not there to make multiple and more multiple copies of emails here and there.
thanks for your time, martin
Dear Martin. I entirely agree with you. But L/x folks love reading text mixtures - or could someone possibly explain to me why one has so many locations to search for docs? e.g. /usr/share and then the howtos, minihowtos a.s.f.? I cannot figure any sense there and consider it severly annoying! O
MaD dUCK schrieb:
i read many mailing lists and the suse-linux-e mailing list sticks out in one annoying aspect - and that is, people quote all messages when replying and then someone else quotes the original and the reply and his and so on. there are messages on the list of depth 7 - so less than 10% by average is actual message text.
please take care when including the original message when replying. it's a fabulous tool to establish context for something you have to say, but it's not there to make multiple and more multiple copies of emails here and there.
thanks for your time, martin
Dear Martin. I entirely agree with you. But L/x folks love reading text mixtures - or could someone possibly explain to me why one has so many locations to search for docs? e.g. /usr/share and then the howtos, minihowtos a.s.f.? I cannot figure any sense there and consider it seveX-MoziX-Mozilla-Status: 0009om - Sun Jan 14 15:24:59 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0801 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 FCC: /C|/Programme/Netscape/Users/ob_ok/mail/Sent Message-ID: <3A61B6BA.E97DE3FD@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:24:58 +0100 From: Oliver Ob <ob_ok@gmx.net> Organization: o.b./RSi/TRSi/SCS*TRC/BB/F4CG X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; uuencode=0; html=0; linewidth=78 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [de]C-CCK-MCD DT (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: peter hollings <phollings@alum.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [SLE] Recent Discussions..Yast etc. References: <E14GJpG-0003a6-00@post.mail.nl.demon.net> <000c01c07b07$d89e1480$2d601f18@atl.mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit peter hollings schrieb:
At the risk of butting into an intense discussion, I'll venture the following: Why not adopt a structure like a "User Group" as in the commercial software industry in America? SuSE could present its release plans to the group in a virtual forum and accept feedback. If the release plan was in fact committed, the feedback could still impact the next subsequent release -- which isn't that far away. SuSE wouldn't give up much, if any, autonomy at all and could gain a lot. Being in on the early announcement could create interest and excitement in the community. And having its product plans more closely aligned with the needs of the community could only strengthen SuSE's market position.
Peter Hollings
----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Sarginson" <cliff@raggedclown.net> To: <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:53 AM Subject: [SLE] Recent Discussions..Yast etc.
Hello, I hope the enthusiastic accolades now coming onto the list, and the suggestion that discussion about yast1 has just been bandwidth wasting will not alter a few important points arising.
Firstly. Why has this speculation arose ? And why have Suse not officially responded to the mailling list that fills the inadequacies in their support for zero cost ?
Someone on the list has stated that Suse are modularising yast, and that yast1 and yast2 will both be available. How does he know this ? Is he privy to information we are not. If this is the case why are there no Alsa or new printer modules in Yast1 under Version 7.0, but existing for Yast2?
Why does Suse not make it's intentions clear ?
You all pay for Suse, the CD's may not be reproduced by 3rd parties for sale (unlike nearly all other distro's -- including Redhat). So you are paying for the distribution technology. This is certainly one of the reasons I use Suse. It seems to me to be completely legitimate to ask what the future holds in this regard.
Suse in my experience almost never respond to feedback or info emails. It is time they did.
This is a matter of a business transaction. Suse sit outside the free distribution chain so common in Linux - therefore they should respond in a business like manner.
Flames to /dev/null. Creative comments to Suse.
Cliff
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail X-MoziX-MX-Mozilla-Status: 0009> Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE 100%
MaD dUCK schrieb:
i read many mailing lists and the suse-linux-e mailing list sticks out in one annoying aspect - and that is, people quote all messages when replying and then someone else quotes the original and the reply and his and so on. there are messages on the list of depth 7 - so less than 10% by average is actual message text.
please take care when including the original message when replying. it's a fabulous tool to establish context for something you have to say, but it's not there to make multiple and more multiple copies of emails here and there.
thanks for your time, martin
Dear Martin. I entirely agree with you. But L/x folks love reading text mixtures - or could someone possibly explain to me why one has so many locations to search for docs? e.g. /usr/share and then the howtos, minihowtos a.s.f.? I cannot figure any sense there and consider it seveX-MoziX-Mozilla-Status: 0009om - Sun Jan 14 15:24:59 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0801 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 FCC: /C|/Programme/Netscape/Users/ob_ok/mail/Sent Message-ID: <3A61B6BA.E97DE3FD@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:24:58 +0100 From: Oliver Ob <ob_ok@gmx.net> Organization: o.b./RSi/TRSi/SCS*TRC/BB/F4CG X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; uuencode=0; html=0; linewidth=78 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [de]C-CCK-MCD DT (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: peter hollings <phollings@alum.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [SLE] Recent Discussions..Yast etc. References: <E14GJpG-0003a6-00@post.mail.nl.demon.net> <000c01c07b07$d89e1480$2d601f18@atl.mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit peter hollings schrieb:
At the risk of butting into an intense discussion, I'll venture the following: Why not adopt a structure like a "User Group" as in the commercial software industry in America? SuSE could present its release plans to the group in a virtual forum and accept feedback. If the release plan was in fact committed, the feedback could still impact the next subsequent release -- which isn't that far away. SuSE wouldn't give up much, if any, autonomy at all and could gain a lot. Being in on the early announcement could create interest and excitement in the community. And having its product plans more closely aligned with the needs of the community could only strengthen SuSE's market position.
Peter Hollings
----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Sarginson" <cliff@raggedclown.net> To: <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:53 AM Subject: [SLE] Recent Discussions..Yast etc.
Hello, I hope the enthusiastic accolades now coming onto the list, and the suggestion that discussion about yast1 has just been bandwidth wasting will not alter a few important points arising.
Firstly. Why has this speculation arose ? And why have Suse not officially responded to the mailling list that fills the inadequacies in their support for zero cost ?
Someone on the list has stated that Suse are modularising yast, and that yast1 and yast2 will both be available. How does he know this ? Is he privy to information we are not. If this is the case why are there no Alsa or new printer modules in Yast1 under Version 7.0, but existing for Yast2?
Why does Suse not make it's intentions clear ?
You all pay for Suse, the CD's may not be reproduced by 3rd parties for sale (unlike nearly all other distro's -- including Redhat). So you are paying for the distribution technology. This is certainly one of the reasons I use Suse. It seems to me to be completely legitimate to ask what the future holds in this regard.
Suse in my experience almost never respond to feedback or info emails. It is time they did.
This is a matter of a business transaction. Suse sit outside the free distribution chain so common in Linux - therefore they should respond in a business like manner.
Flames to /dev/null. Creative comments to Suse.
Cliff
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail X-MoziX-MX-Mozilla-Status: 0009> Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE 100%
MaD dUCK schrieb:
i read many mailing lists and the suse-linux-e mailing list sticks out in one annoying aspect - and that is, people quote all messages when replying and then someone else quotes the original and the reply and his and so on. there are messages on the list of depth 7 - so less than 10% by average is actual message text.
please take care when including the original message when replying. it's a fabulous tool to establish context for something you have to say, but it's not there to make multiple and more multiple copies of emails here and there.
thanks for your time, martin
Dear Martin. I entirely agree with you. But L/x folks love reading text mixtures - or could someone possibly explain to me why one has so many locations to search for docs? e.g. /usr/share and then the howtos, minihowtos a.s.f.? I cannot figure any sense there and consider it seveX-MoziX-Mozilla-Status: 0009om - Sun Jan 14 15:24:59 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0801 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 FCC: /C|/Programme/Netscape/Users/ob_ok/mail/Sent Message-ID: <3A61B6BA.E97DE3FD@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:24:58 +0100 From: Oliver Ob <ob_ok@gmx.net> Organization: o.b./RSi/TRSi/SCS*TRC/BB/F4CG X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; uuencode=0; html=0; linewidth=78 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [de]C-CCK-MCD DT (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: peter hollings <phollings@alum.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [SLE] Recent Discussions..Yast etc. References: <E14GJpG-0003a6-00@post.mail.nl.demon.net> <000c01c07b07$d89e1480$2d601f18@atl.mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit peter hollings schrieb:
At the risk of butting into an intense discussion, I'll venture the following: Why not adopt a structure like a "User Group" as in the commercial software industry in America? SuSE could present its release plans to the group in a virtual forum and accept feedback. If the release plan was in fact committed, the feedback could still impact the next subsequent release -- which isn't that far away. SuSE wouldn't give up much, if any, autonomy at all and could gain a lot. Being in on the early announcement could create interest and excitement in the community. And having its product plans more closely aligned with the needs of the community could only strengthen SuSE's market position.
Peter Hollings
----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Sarginson" <cliff@raggedclown.net> To: <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:53 AM Subject: [SLE] Recent Discussions..Yast etc.
Hello, I hope the enthusiastic accolades now coming onto the list, and the suggestion that discussion about yast1 has just been bandwidth wasting will not alter a few important points arising.
Firstly. Why has this speculation arose ? And why have Suse not officially responded to the mailling list that fills the inadequacies in their support for zero cost ?
Someone on the list has stated that Suse are modularising yast, and that yast1 and yast2 will both be available. How does he know this ? Is he privy to information we are not. If this is the case why are there no Alsa or new printer modules in Yast1 under Version 7.0, but existing for Yast2?
Why does Suse not make it's intentions clear ?
You all pay for Suse, the CD's may not be reproduced by 3rd parties for sale (unlike nearly all other distro's -- including Redhat). So you are paying for the distribution technology. This is certainly one of the reasons I use Suse. It seems to me to be completely legitimate to ask what the future holds in this regard.
Suse in my experience almost never respond to feedback or info emails. It is time they did.
This is a matter of a business transaction. Suse sit outside the free distribution chain so common in Linux - therefore they should respond in a business like manner.
Flames to /dev/null. Creative comments to Suse.
Cliff
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail X-MoziX-MX-Mozilla-Status: 0009> Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE 100%
I prefer the complete question (prior msgs) be included in any response, That way I can see what the orginal question was without trying to infer from the quoted seqment. JLK On Friday 19 January 2001 06:07, Oliver Ob wrote:
MaD dUCK schrieb:
i read many mailing lists and the suse-linux-e mailing list sticks out in one annoying aspect - and that is, people quote all messages when replying and then someone else quotes the original and the reply and his and so on. there are messages on the list of depth 7 - so less than 10% by average is actual message text.
please take care when including the original message when replying. it's a fabulous tool to establish context for something you have to say, but it's not there to make multiple and more multiple copies of emails here and there.
thanks for your time, martin
Dear Martin. I entirely agree with you.
But L/x folks love reading text mixtures - or could someone possibly explain to me why one has so many locations to search for docs? e.g. /usr/share and then the howtos, minihowtos a.s.f.? I cannot figure any sense there and consider it seveX-MoziX-Mozilla-Status: 0009om - Sun Jan 14 15:24:59 2001 X-Mozilla-Status: 0801 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 FCC: /C|/Programme/Netscape/Users/ob_ok/mail/Sent Message-ID: <3A61B6BA.E97DE3FD@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:24:58 +0100 From: Oliver Ob <ob_ok@gmx.net> Organization: o.b./RSi/TRSi/SCS*TRC/BB/F4CG X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0; receipt=0; uuencode=0; html=0; linewidth=78 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [de]C-CCK-MCD DT (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: peter hollings <phollings@alum.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [SLE] Recent Discussions..Yast etc. References: <E14GJpG-0003a6-00@post.mail.nl.demon.net> <000c01c07b07$d89e1480$2d601f18@atl.mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
peter hollings schrieb:
At the risk of butting into an intense discussion, I'll venture the following: Why not adopt a structure like a "User Group" as in the commercial software industry in America? SuSE could present its release plans to the group in a virtual forum and accept feedback. If the release plan was in fact committed, the feedback could still impact the next subsequent release -- which isn't that far away. SuSE wouldn't give up much, if any, autonomy at all and could gain a lot. Being in on the early announcement could create interest and excitement in the community. And having its product plans more closely aligned with the needs of the community could only strengthen SuSE's market position.
Peter Hollings
----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Sarginson" <cliff@raggedclown.net> To: <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:53 AM Subject: [SLE] Recent Discussions..Yast etc.
Hello, I hope the enthusiastic accolades now coming onto the list, and the suggestion that discussion about yast1 has just been bandwidth wasting will not alter a few important points arising.
Firstly. Why has this speculation arose ? And why have Suse not officially responded to the mailling list that fills the inadequacies in their support for zero cost ?
Someone on the list has stated that Suse are modularising yast, and that yast1 and yast2 will both be available. How does he know this ? Is he privy to information we are not. If this is the case why are there no Alsa or new printer modules in Yast1 under Version 7.0, but existing for Yast2?
Why does Suse not make it's intentions clear ?
You all pay for Suse, the CD's may not be reproduced by 3rd parties for sale (unlike nearly all other distro's -- including Redhat). So you are paying for the distribution technology. This is certainly one of the reasons I use Suse. It seems to me to be completely legitimate to ask what the future holds in this regard.
Suse in my experience almost never respond to feedback or info emails. It is time they did.
This is a matter of a business transaction. Suse sit outside the free distribution chain so common in Linux - therefore they should respond in a business like manner.
Flames to /dev/null. Creative comments to Suse.
Cliff
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail X-MoziX-MX-Mozilla-Status: 0009> Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE 100%
-- Scientific theories, according to Sir Karl Popper, can be "falsified," or proven wrong, by experiment. Unscientific theories -Marxist dialectical history and Freudian psychology were Popper's favorites- are formed in such a way that they cannot be falsified by data.
also sprach Jerry Kreps (on Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:41:27AM -0600):
I prefer the complete question (prior msgs) be included in any response,
That way I can see what the orginal question was without trying to infer from the quoted seqment.
does KMail not support threading??? if not, i'd very quickly switch to mutt. without threading, i couldn't bear the volume of emails i am receiving. no, i am not bragging. martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo madduck@!#:1:s@\@@@.net -- "gilmour's guitar sounds good whether you've got a bottle of cider in your hand or a keyboard and a mouse." -- prof. bruce maxwell
On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:23:27 +0100, MaD dUCK wrote: | does KMail not support threading??? if not, i'd very quickly switch to | mutt. without threading, i couldn't bear the volume of emails i am | receiving. no, i am not bragging. mutt? You must be a masochist. Especially as you are putting it up as an alternative to KMail. Why don't you check Pronto (http://www.muhri.net/pronto): very stable and tons on features. As you can also opt to stuff your emails in a MySQL database your access will be blazing fast and you will never have to deal with corrupt mbox files again. There is a drawback: it's a perl/gtk app. So the startup takes quit a few seconds. But once it's loaded....phew! -- Koos Pol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- S.C. Pol T: +31 20 3116122 Systems Administrator F: +31 20 3116200 Compuware Europe B.V. E: koos_pol@nl.compuware.com Amsterdam PGP public key available
also sprach Koos Pol (on Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:43:37PM +0100):
mutt? You must be a masochist. Especially as you are putting it up as an alternative to KMail. Why don't you check Pronto
well, i'll argue i am about 3 times faster than you when i use mutt. and it works beautifully through ssh/telnet. it's still the best email client around... but let's not get religious... martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo madduck@!#:1:s@\@@@.net -- "no small art is it to sleep: it is necessary for that purpose to keep awake all day." -- nietzsche
does KMail not support threading??? if not, i'd very quickly switch to mutt. without threading, i couldn't bear the volume of emails i am receiving. no, i am not bragging.
Kmail2 supports threading (I dont know if kmail1 does, I never have used it) Cliff
Yes, Kmail supports threading, but I only want to show unread email. JLK On Friday 19 January 2001 09:23, MaD dUCK wrote:
also sprach Jerry Kreps (on Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:41:27AM -0600):
I prefer the complete question (prior msgs) be included in any response,
That way I can see what the orginal question was without trying to infer from the quoted seqment.
does KMail not support threading??? if not, i'd very quickly switch to mutt. without threading, i couldn't bear the volume of emails i am receiving. no, i am not bragging.
martin
[greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo madduck@!#:1:s@\@@@.net
-- Scientific theories, according to Sir Karl Popper, can be "falsified," or proven wrong, by experiment. Unscientific theories -Marxist dialectical history and Freudian psychology were Popper's favorites- are formed in such a way that they cannot be falsified by data.
On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:23:27 +0100 MaD dUCK <madduck@madduck.net> got it together enough to write:
does KMail not support threading??? if not, i'd very quickly switch to mutt. without threading, i couldn't bear the volume of emails i am receiving. no, i am not bragging.
Don't know about kmail, I use Sylpheed. I also recieve large numbers of emails daily, and with the filtering and threading capabilities, this is about the best (GUI) MHA I have found so far. -- This Email is 100% Virus Free! How do I know? Because no Microsoft products were used to generate it! Regards Don Hansford ECKYTECH COMPUTING/ SQIT Warwick <SuSE Linux 6.4> "We're tired, we're wired, and our breath smells bad -- -But at least our Operating System doesn't suck!"
MaD dUCK schrieb:
i read many mailing lists and the suse-linux-e mailing list sticks out in one annoying aspect - and that is, people quote all messages when replying and then someone else quotes the original and the reply and his and so on. there are messages on the list of depth 7 - so less than 10% by average is actual message text.
please take care when including the original message when replying. it's a fabulous tool to establish context for something you have to say, but it's not there to make multiple and more multiple copies of emails here and there.
thanks for your time, martin
Dear Martin. I entirely agree with you. But L/x folks love reading text mixtures - or could someone possibly explain to me why one has so many locations to search for docs? e.g. /usr/share and then the howtos, minihowtos a.s.f.? I cannot figure any sense there and consider it severely annoying
participants (6)
-
Cliff Sarginson -
Don Hansford -
Jerry Kreps -
Koos Pol -
MaD dUCK -
Oliver Ob