-------- Original Message -------- From: Hans van der Merwe <hvdmerwe@sunspace.co.za> To: SLE <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Date: Di 29.08.2006 10:34 Subject: Re: [SLE] Suse License Question On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 10:10 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Henk Roos wrote:
What I want to do is load Suse 10 for someone else and then set up postgres etc. and load a program I have written for them and then charge them anually for the program. Can I keep the root password for myself.
IOW you're providing a service for someone else and charging a fee for it. That is the same as the millions of webhosters that offer Linux+Apache+MySQL+PHP at a fee. It is not related to the license of the distribution itself.
Whether you can keep the root-password to yourself is only a matter for you and your customer.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
One thing to consider is the licensing of the software that you have written yourself. It may rely on GPLed code? But still this does not involve the distribution. So what you all are saying is that I will be providing a service, and that the software program I have written still belong to me and I am using Suse 10 as a platform for my service, which means that the OS doesn't belong to them or to me, because it is open source? All the source code for the program I have written myself from scratch in Java, I haven't used / modified any other GPL source. Thanks "Softline VIP provides no warranty, express or implied, as to the accuracy or completeness of any advice or information provided herein and accepts no liability for loss or damage of any nature whatsoever, as a result of or which may be attributable to the use of, or the reliance upon, the advice or information provided herein."
Henk Roos wrote:
So what you all are saying is that I will be providing a service, and that the software program I have written still belong to me
That's the way I see it, unless your contract with the customer somehow involves providing the program, not just the service.
and I am using Suse 10 as a platform for my service, which means that the OS doesn't belong to them or to me, because it is open source?
If it belongs to anyone, it's probably Novell. /Per Jessen, Zürich
On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 11:24 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Henk Roos wrote:
So what you all are saying is that I will be providing a service, and that the software program I have written still belong to me
That's the way I see it, unless your contract with the customer somehow involves providing the program, not just the service.
and I am using Suse 10 as a platform for my service, which means that the OS doesn't belong to them or to me, because it is open source?
If it belongs to anyone, it's probably Novell.
Only the parts they developed. Including artwork etc. E-Mail disclaimer: http://www.sunspace.co.za/emaildisclaimer.htm
On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 11:24 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Henk Roos wrote:
So what you all are saying is that I will be providing a service, and that the software program I have written still belong to me
That's the way I see it, unless your contract with the customer somehow involves providing the program, not just the service.
and I am using Suse 10 as a platform for my service, which means that the OS doesn't belong to them or to me, because it is open source?
If it belongs to anyone, it's probably Novell.
Only the parts they developed. Including artwork etc.
Thanks Per + Hans for the information. This way I can charge them anually for my service, which is exactly what I want to do. Henk "Softline VIP provides no warranty, express or implied, as to the accuracy or completeness of any advice or information provided herein and accepts no liability for loss or damage of any nature whatsoever, as a result of or which may be attributable to the use of, or the reliance upon, the advice or information provided herein."
Henk Roos wrote:
On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 11:24 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Henk Roos wrote:
So what you all are saying is that I will be providing a service, and that the software program I have written still belong to me That's the way I see it, unless your contract with the customer somehow involves providing the program, not just the service.
and I am using Suse 10 as a platform for my service, which means that the OS doesn't belong to them or to me, because it is open source? If it belongs to anyone, it's probably Novell.
Only the parts they developed. Including artwork etc.
Thanks Per + Hans for the information.
This way I can charge them anually for my service, which is exactly what I want to do.
Henk
Of course, it wouldn't hurt to have them buy a copy from Novell.
On Tuesday 29 August 2006 11:24, Per Jessen wrote:
and I am using Suse 10 as a platform for my service, which means that the OS doesn't belong to them or to me, because it is open source?
If it belongs to anyone, it's probably Novell.
owl:~ # mount ... /home/SUSE-Linux-10.1-GM-DVD-i386.iso on /media/suse type iso9660 (ro,loop=/dev/loop0) cd /me owl:~ # cd /media/suse owl:/media/suse # less LICENSE.TXT There's the answer. 3rd full paragraph says the original poster may NOT do what he's asking about: ------------ The Software is a collective work of Novell. You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software for Your distribution and use within Your Organization. You may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software outside Your organization provided that: 1) You receive no consideration; and, 2) you do not bundle or combine the Software with another offering (e.g., software, hardware, or service). ------------- Points (1) and (2) both apply here. -- ----- stephan@s11n.net http://s11n.net "...pleasure is a grace and is not obedient to the commands of the will." -- Alan W. Watts
Am Dienstag, 29. August 2006 14:51 schrieb stephan beal:
owl:~ # mount ... /home/SUSE-Linux-10.1-GM-DVD-i386.iso on /media/suse type iso9660 (ro,loop=/dev/loop0) cd /me owl:~ # cd /media/suse owl:/media/suse # less LICENSE.TXT
There's the answer. 3rd full paragraph says the original poster may NOT do what he's asking about:
------------ The Software is a collective work of Novell. You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software for Your distribution and use within Your Organization. You may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software outside Your organization provided that: 1) You receive no consideration; and, 2) you do not bundle or combine the Software with another offering (e.g., software, hardware, or service). -------------
Points (1) and (2) both apply here.
I'm not a lawyer, but in this case I just think: - regardig 1) if he gives the Suse software for free, not getting any consideration for that, but then eventually gets payd for his work with installing it, it should be ok, no? If not, nobody could ask to get paid for the installing work and then almost nobody would do it except on the own machine and maybe some friends ones, I guess. regarding 2) then he just must not bundle or combine the Suse software with his own, but just make two different things out of it: first install Suse and as a second job install his own software. According to this text it's not forbidden to ask beeing paid for software running on a Suse system, he just may not "bundle or combine" it. b.t.w. if its true that one may not bundle Suse Linux with hardware, then it would be impossible to sell PC's with pre-istalled Linux or complete systems for a certain business application runing on Suse Linux. If this is the case, every software developper *must* sell Win or Mac, because he can bundle it with what ever he wants, as long as he uses a licensed system. I can't believe that, so I *must* have misundersood something here... Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Switzerland professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com Madagascar special: http://www.sanic.ch
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 03:11:49PM +0200, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Am Dienstag, 29. August 2006 14:51 schrieb stephan beal:
------------ The Software is a collective work of Novell. You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software for Your distribution and use within Your Organization. You may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software outside Your organization provided that: 1) You receive no consideration; and, 2) you do not bundle or combine the Software with another offering (e.g., software, hardware, or service). -------------
I'm not a lawyer, but in this case I just think:
- regardig 1) if he gives the Suse software for free, not getting any consideration for that, but then eventually gets payd for his work with installing it, it should be ok, no? If not, nobody could ask to get paid for the installing work and then almost nobody would do it except on the own machine and maybe some friends ones, I guess.
The phrase "You may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software [...] provided that:" It's the combination of making copies *and* getting paid that's illegal.
regarding 2) then he just must not bundle or combine the Suse software with his own, but just make two different things out of it: first install Suse and as a second job install his own software. According to this text it's not forbidden to ask beeing paid for software running on a Suse system, he just may not "bundle or combine" it.
b.t.w. if its true that one may not bundle Suse Linux with hardware, then it would be impossible to sell PC's with pre-istalled Linux or complete systems for a certain business application runing on Suse Linux. If this is the case, every software developper *must* sell Win or Mac, because he can bundle it with what ever he wants, as long as he uses a licensed system.
I can't believe that, so I *must* have misundersood something here...
Yes, you have (I think :) ) You can't make a copy and then bundle that copy with hardware/software/ services. The above text doesn't, however, outlaw bundling official copies. So, basically, if you sell a copy of SuSE (by bundling it), then it has to be an official one. i.e. SuSE want a license fee for each machine if you're going to sell it. There could, however, be other rules which prevent you from reselling official copies. I haven't got a full copy of the text here. Of course, even if the above text prohibits all bundling, then it is still possible to bundle SuSE with hardware - you just have to go to Novell and offer them $$$, and they'll give you different licensing terms (e.g. an Authorised Reseller contract). As an example, under the standard MS EULA, you're not allowed to buy a single copy of Windows and install it onto multiple machines before then selling them. However, most PC vendors have a single master disk of Windows which they use for every PC they sell; they're allowed to do this because they are constrained by different rules to the end users (including having to pay MS tax for every PC they sell). -- David Smith Work Email: Dave.Smith@st.com STMicroelectronics Home Email: David.Smith@ds-electronics.co.uk Bristol, England GPG Key: 0xF13192F2
David SMITH wrote:
(including having to pay MS tax for every PC they sell).
Actually, that was ruled illegal, if the customer doesn't receive a legal copy of Windows. A vendor can't legally sell you a computer, without Windows and still charge for a Windows licence.
stephan beal wrote:
On Tuesday 29 August 2006 11:24, Per Jessen wrote:
and I am using Suse 10 as a platform for my service, which means that the OS doesn't belong to them or to me, because it is open source? If it belongs to anyone, it's probably Novell.
owl:~ # mount ... /home/SUSE-Linux-10.1-GM-DVD-i386.iso on /media/suse type iso9660 (ro,loop=/dev/loop0) cd /me owl:~ # cd /media/suse owl:/media/suse # less LICENSE.TXT
There's the answer. 3rd full paragraph says the original poster may NOT do what he's asking about:
------------ The Software is a collective work of Novell. You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software for Your distribution and use within Your Organization. You may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software outside Your organization provided that: 1) You receive no consideration; and, 2) you do not bundle or combine the Software with another offering (e.g., software, hardware, or service). -------------
Points (1) and (2) both apply here.
The original poster can and should force his customer to pay for a boxed set of SuSE. Then deleiver his application on seperate media. He can then charge what ever he wants for his product and/or services. Mark
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 02:51:02PM +0200, stephan beal wrote:
owl:~ # mount ... /home/SUSE-Linux-10.1-GM-DVD-i386.iso on /media/suse type iso9660 (ro,loop=/dev/loop0) cd /me owl:~ # cd /media/suse owl:/media/suse # less LICENSE.TXT
There's the answer. 3rd full paragraph says the original poster may NOT do what he's asking about:
------------ The Software is a collective work of Novell. You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software for Your distribution and use within Your Organization. You may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software outside Your organization provided that: 1) You receive no consideration; and, 2) you do not bundle or combine the Software with another offering (e.g., software, hardware, or service). -------------
AFAICT, Henk (the OP) didn't specify whether he was going to install an official copy purchased by (or on behalf of) the client, or a copy he bought himself. If it's the former, then it's probably legal, although you'd have to check the full copy of LICENSE.TXT to check whether it's OK to resell a bought copy. Either way, it would be OK if you got the client to buy the software and then installed it for them. If it's the latter, then no, it's not legal. However, the client could make a copy themselves and ask you to install it, since you're no longer doing the copying. Usual disclaimers, IANAL, etc. -- David Smith Work Email: Dave.Smith@st.com STMicroelectronics Home Email: David.Smith@ds-electronics.co.uk Bristol, England GPG Key: 0xF13192F2
stephan beal wrote:
On Tuesday 29 August 2006 11:24, Per Jessen wrote:
and I am using Suse 10 as a platform for my service, which means that the OS doesn't belong to them or to me, because it is open source?
There's the answer. 3rd full paragraph says the original poster may NOT do what he's asking about:
------------ The Software is a collective work of Novell. You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software for Your distribution and use within Your Organization. You may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software outside Your organization provided that: 1) You receive no consideration; and, 2) you do not bundle or combine the Software with another offering (e.g., software, hardware, or service). -------------
Points (1) and (2) both apply here.
Hmm, I'm not convinced. Henk was not proposing to make a copy nor to distribute the Software. He only wants to run a server with the Software in order to provide a service for a customer. /Per Jessen, Zürich
On 29/08/06 13:57, Per Jessen wrote:
stephan beal wrote:
<snip>
Points (1) and (2) both apply here.
Hmm, I'm not convinced. Henk was not proposing to make a copy nor to distribute the Software. He only wants to run a server with the Software in order to provide a service for a customer.
I am convinced.. Stephan is quite wrong.
participants (9)
-
Daniel Bauer -
Darryl Gregorash -
David SMITH -
Hans van der Merwe -
Henk Roos -
James Knott -
Mark Hounschell -
Per Jessen -
stephan beal