Hi all ! As SUSE 10.1 comes near - SUSE 10.0 will not be supported anymore. At least that's my fear. I do *not* want to change my Desktop OS every half year - that's too frequent for production environment. The problem is - with every OS release I get old bugs fixed - but new ones appearing (regressions) - so even if I switch to 10.1 - it *will* be newer, but I'm not sure if it will be more stable. What I do want is to have my OS - SUSE Linux 10.0 - more stable. Unfortunately, SUSE Linux 10.0 turned out to be poorly tested - even considering the fact that I have filled over 40 bugs in openSUSE Bugzilla during the two-month testing period. Just half year passed since release - but bugfixes are scarse - and support is poor. I would like to change that. First build a community - wiki page on openSUSE that document the bugs & other usability/configuration problems in SUSE Linux 10.0 - and provide solutions for them - described in plain text. If this proves to be successful - next target would be releasing unofficial, community-made "Service Packs" that solves many problems all-at-once.
Here is my first draft for "SUSE Legacy" project: http://en.opensuse.org/Category:SUSE_Linux_10.0_-_supporting_legacy_OS I think having SUSE Legacy is useful (just like Fedora Legacy supports their OS).
On Saturday, April 22, 2006 @ 12:43 PM, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Hi all !
As SUSE 10.1 comes near - SUSE 10.0 will not be supported anymore. At least that's my fear.
Historically, releases are supported for app. 2 years, I believe. If I'm not mistaken, 10.0, 9.3, 9.2, and 9.1 are currently being supported, though support for 9.1 will stop when 10.1 comes out, or shortly before that.
I do *not* want to change my Desktop OS every half year - that's too frequent for production environment. The problem is - with every OS release I get old bugs fixed - but new ones appearing (regressions) - so even if I switch to 10.1 - it *will* be newer, but I'm not sure if it will be more stable.
What I do want is to have my OS - SUSE Linux 10.0 - more stable. Unfortunately, SUSE Linux 10.0 turned out to be poorly tested - even considering the fact that I have filled over 40 bugs in openSUSE Bugzilla during the two-month testing period.
Just half year passed since release - but bugfixes are scarse - and support is poor.
I would like to change that. First build a community - wiki page on openSUSE that document the bugs & other usability/configuration problems in SUSE Linux 10.0 - and provide solutions for them - described in plain text.
If this proves to be successful - next target would be releasing unofficial, community-made "Service Packs" that solves many problems all-at-once.
Greg Wallace
This is your theory. In my practise - SUSE Linux 10.0 is supported poorly.
On Saturday 22 April 2006 21:34, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
This is your theory. In my practise - SUSE Linux 10.0 is supported poorly.
How do you mean? It is supported in the sense that if there is a security problem, it receives security fixes. Have you seen a security problem that's gone unpatched?
On Sat, 2006-04-22 at 22:13 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Saturday 22 April 2006 21:34, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
In my practise - SUSE Linux 10.0 is supported poorly. It is supported in the sense that if there is a security problem, it receives security fixes. Have you seen a security problem that's gone unpatched?
I'm with Anders here, SUSE is actually very well supported in the form of security fixes and the availability of unofficial SUSE-supplied packages in supplementary. You want full on 24/7 hold-your-hand support, buy SLES and take out a support contract. I'm pretty sure that Fedora Legacy is about unofficial support for OS versions from way back that Red Hat don't support any more incidentally. And Alexey's list of bugs have all either been fixed (boo! bad support?) or aren't actual bugs :) -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org http://usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Help end poverty: http://oxfam.org.uk/imin
On Saturday 22 April 2006 22:34, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
And Alexey's list of bugs have all either been fixed (boo! bad support?) or aren't actual bugs :)
Ohh - you're starting Microsoft's Game - "bugs are features". bad boy.
Those are bugs, and most of them unfixed.
Not sure what you mean by 'list of bugs', but if you're talking about what you have on the wiki, it's a little odd 1. This talks about 10.0, but gives a link that was filed for 10.1 beta1. You say it hasn't been fixed, but it has, as evidenced by the link you gave yourself 2. has been fixed 3. has just been opened. Give it a little time 4. apparently can't be reproduced, which makes it hard to debug. My quanta doesn't crash the way you describe
On Saturday 22 April 2006 15:34, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
This is your theory. In my practise - SUSE Linux 10.0 is supported poorly. ========
You want support? Buy SLES or a support package from SUSE. That is what they are there for, to help. Free support? You get that here and other SUSE mail lists at absolutely no cost to you, how can you complain about that. If you purchased your SUSE package, then it spells out what support you get with that, so unless you just don't read, you know it doesn't include detailed support on everything. You'll find the same thing with any distro, unless you live in a cave and don't do your research before using Linux. As Anders points out, SUSE is supported for at least 2 years after it is released. Security patches and even file updates are provided on a timely basis. If you want or mean personal support, well then that's something else and you need to get a clue. regards, Lee
The kind of support I want - is Service Packs - that fix security issues as well as bugs.
On Saturday 22 April 2006 22:28, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
The kind of support I want - is Service Packs - that fix security issues as well as bugs.
There are service packs for the business products. SLES 8 is up to service pack 4, SLES 9 has Service Pack 3, NLD 9 too, OES is up to service pack 2 But for SUSE Linux the home user version there are no service packs. Just individual patches released through online update. This isn't exactly something new, it's the way it's always been.
On Sat, 2006-04-22 at 22:32 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Saturday 22 April 2006 22:28, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
The kind of support I want - is Service Packs - that fix security issues as well as bugs.
There are service packs for the business products. SLES 8 is up to service pack 4, SLES 9 has Service Pack 3, NLD 9 too, OES is up to service pack 2
But for SUSE Linux the home user version there are no service packs. Just individual patches released through online update. This isn't exactly something new, it's the way it's always been.
IOW instead of one massive update, it's being done incrementally?
On Saturday 22 April 2006 22:51, Mike McMullin wrote:
But for SUSE Linux the home user version there are no service packs. Just individual patches released through online update. This isn't exactly something new, it's the way it's always been.
IOW instead of one massive update, it's being done incrementally?
There are patches and online update for the business products as well. It's just that every now and then, they collect all the patches released so far and put them together on an ISO image (or three) and call it a service pack. It is then possible to install directly from that service pack so your machine will start up with all those patches, so the initial online update only gets the patches released since that service pack
The kind of support I want - is Service Packs - that fix security issues as well as bugs.
I suggest you read through the archives of suse-security-announce http://lists.suse.com/archive/suse-security-announce/ This month alone, security issues have been fixed in: kaffeine, mailman, xzgv, clamav, MozillaFirefox and mozilla (Only issues that exist can be fixed) -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org http://usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Help end poverty: http://oxfam.org.uk/imin
On Saturday 22 April 2006 16:28, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
The kind of support I want - is Service Packs - that fix security issues as well as bugs.
It seems you find waaaay more bugs than most of us. SuSE 10.0 works just fine here and I have noticed few if any bugs. (or maybe I'm just not as fussy as you are)
On Sat, 2006-04-22 at 17:34 -0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
This is your theory. In my practise - SUSE Linux 10.0 is supported poorly.
There is paid support from Novell if you want to go that route. Generally I find adequate support in this forum, which is web searchable.
On Sunday 23 April 2006 00:30, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Do you understand what YOU is ?
Yes, and I don't like it at all.
I want offline system for updates. Like Service Packs. Nothing else will satisfy me.
So get one of the business products
>So get one of the business products 1) How much do they price ? (SLED 10 DVD) (I hope not above 120$) 2) Do they have all the codecs ? (MP3+DivX+WMA+WMV) 3) software is incompatible - packman has no software for SLED 10. Only for SUSE 10. what to do ? The other way around is to build a community to support SUSE 10.0. - including rolling out unofffial Service Packs.
On Saturday 22 April 2006 18:42, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
The other way around is to build a community to support SUSE 10.0. - including rolling out unofffial Service Packs.
Hi Alexey, Please don't take offense but you're starting to act like a troll. You've expressed your opinions and proposed your ideas and it seems that no other course of action will satisfy you. You've received very patient and intelligent responses from some of the people on SLE who really *do* know what they're talking about. Instead of thanking them for taking the time out of their day to respond and absorbing what they've explained in plain language, you dismiss their answers and persist on your own track. Very troll-like, IMHO. You have to accept the facts as they are and adjust to reality, not insist on starting back at the top of your argument and restating your ideas and opinions all over again. SUSE 10.0 is a great distribution and is extremely well supported via YOU, these lists and by the 'third party' packager community. If you're having a lot of problems, the deficit is really in your knowledge and patience not in the distribution. Now please let this redundant thread die. regards, Carl
On Saturday 22 April 2006 18:18, Carl Hartung wrote:
Please don't take offense but you're starting to act like a troll.
hi Carl, Just curious, what is a troll? The best answer all-around is simply to recommend one of the enterprise solutions. oh, is a troll the fat ugly assertive guy that lives under the bridge and won't let anyone cross unless they can knock him off the bridge... and then if they can't knock him off the bridge he eats them? :) -- Kind regards, Mark H. Harris <>< harrismh777@earthlink.net
On Saturday 22 April 2006 10:21 pm, Mark H. Harris wrote:
On Saturday 22 April 2006 18:18, Carl Hartung wrote:
Please don't take offense but you're starting to act like a troll.
hi Carl,
Just curious, what is a troll?
I like to think of myself as one. A happy-go-lucky troll, but a troll nonetheless. :)
The best answer all-around is simply to recommend one of the enterprise solutions.
oh, is a troll the fat ugly assertive guy that lives under the bridge and won't let anyone cross unless they can knock him off the bridge... and then if they can't knock him off the bridge he eats them?
What are you - some kind of billy goat? :P -- kai - www.perfectreign.com tall, pale and handsome troll
On Sunday 23 April 2006 01:21, Mark H. Harris wrote:
The best answer all-around is simply to recommend one of the enterprise solutions.
Hi Mark, You'll note I did *not* call him a troll... just warned him that his unreasonable persistence was becoming very troll-like. There *is* a difference and I was polite about it, too. He'd already been referred to the enterprise solution and dismissed it, saying something like "... hope it's not over $120" (paraphrased) I'd still prefer to see this thread die, though. regards, Carl
Please don't take offense but you're starting to act like a troll.
A quick Google for him confirms this, seems he jumps on a distro and bleats on their lists asking for it to be made exactly how he wants it (forget anyone else), which is basically like Windows XP but free. I'm adding him to my "Carl William Spitzer" list - trolls whose mails shall not be read, never mind responded to. -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org http://usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Help end poverty: http://oxfam.org.uk/imin
On Sun, 2006-04-23 at 09:18 +0100, James Ogley wrote:
Please don't take offense but you're starting to act like a troll.
A quick Google for him confirms this, seems he jumps on a distro and bleats on their lists asking for it to be made exactly how he wants it (forget anyone else), which is basically like Windows XP but free.
I'm adding him to my "Carl William Spitzer" list - trolls whose mails shall not be read, never mind responded to. --
Why would you make such a statement about me. Of what are you afraid? Have I asked too many questions? -- ___ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ | | | | [__ | | | |___ |_|_| ___] | \/
Why would you make such a statement about me. Of what are you afraid? Have I asked too many questions?
He is just an old man who tend to overlook great ideas. It is true - many people (me too) tend to change Linux to be more Windowsy - but this is a good go - not a bad one.
On Saturday 29 April 2006 09:25, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Why would you make such a statement about me. Of what are you afraid? Have I asked too many questions?
He is just an old man who tend to overlook great ideas.
It is true - many people (me too) tend to change Linux to be more Windowsy - but this is a good go - not a bad one.
A quick note KEEP WINDOWS OUT OF Linux . I have to use XP (extra plonkey) during the day and cant wait to get back to sanity of Linux in the evening .. -- The Labour party has changed there emblem from a rose to a condom as it more accuratley reflects the governments political stance. A condom allows for inflation halts production destroys the next gereration, protects a bunch of pricks, and givesyou a sense of security while you are actually bieng fucked from GSM
On Saturday 29 April 2006 03:02 am, Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Saturday 29 April 2006 09:25, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Why would you make such a statement about me. Of what are you afraid? Have I asked too many questions?
He is just an old man who tend to overlook great ideas.
It is true - many people (me too) tend to change Linux to be more Windowsy - but this is a good go - not a bad one.
A quick note
KEEP WINDOWS OUT OF Linux .
I have to use XP (extra plonkey) during the day and cant wait to get back to sanity of Linux in the evening ..
LOL! Me too. I'm finally to the point where I'm more comfortable in KDE/Linux than Wintendo. The other day I wanted to do a simple whois. Not possible in Wintendo without extra software. I won't go into what i had to do to load said software... It is nice on the weekends to be SUSE only. :) Of course, my $*#*#&@*& five-year-old just beat the pants off me in Tux Racer. I've NEVER gotten to level seven. I didn't even know there WAS a level seven! Grrrr..... -- kai - www.perfectreign.com 43...for those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything.
On Saturday 29 April 2006 16:43, kai wrote:
A quick note
KEEP WINDOWS OUT OF Linux .
I have to use XP (extra plonkey) during the day and cant wait to get back to sanity of Linux in the evening ..
LOL! Me too. I'm finally to the point where I'm more comfortable in KDE/Linux than Wintendo.
The other day I wanted to do a simple whois. Not possible in Wintendo without extra software. I won't go into what i had to do to load said software...
It is nice on the weekends to be SUSE only. :)
Of course, my $*#*#&@*& five-year-old just beat the pants off me in Tux Racer. I've NEVER gotten to level seven. I didn't even know there WAS a level seven!
Grrrr.....
-- kai - www.perfectreign.com
43...for those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything.
I gave up on trying to get round games like that dont think the fingers work quick enough Ho Hummmm part of becoming an old fart so i have been told I can still beat the living hell out of everyone i have come across on at Mahjongg thou .. :-) one up for me .. Pete . -- The Labour party has changed their emblem from a rose to a condom as it more accurately reflects the government's political stance. A condom allows for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you are actually being fucked. from GSM
On Sunday 23 April 2006 00:30, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Do you understand what YOU is ?
Yes, and I don't like it at all.
I want offline system for updates.
Aha! :) I did that for a while when I was without an internet connection. I collected some rpms on an usb disk in an internet café, and at home I installed them with 'rpm -Fhv'. Or I created a YaST source, and installed them with YaST (or apt4rpm/apt).
Like Service Packs. Nothing else will satisfy me.
IIUC, a Service Pack is just a bunch of updated rpm packages, collected in a certain timespan. Then I had my own mini Service Packs. ;) Cheers, Leen
On Saturday 22 April 2006 23:30, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Do you understand what YOU is ?
Yes, and I don't like it at all.
I want offline system for updates. Like Service Packs. Nothing else will satisfy me.
Well bully for you .. Ya gads man you get cut price software IF you can be botherd to look most problems are solved and the solutions freely available on the net what more do you want if you want to unplug youe machines from the net to update them then simply D/L the patches/fixes burn em onto a cd turn your network off and install from cd untill you are sick of the sight of cd's just dont try bully boy tacticks on people on here cus you are only going to end up getting bitten big time , If you dont believe me then just carry on the way you are going and see what happens .. Pete . -- The Labour party has changed there emblem from a rose to a condom as it more accuratley reflects the governments political stance. A condom allows for inflation halts production destroys the next gereration, protects a bunch of pricks, and givesyou a sense of security while you are actually bieng fucked from GSM
On Sat, 2006-04-22 at 20:30 -0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Do you understand what YOU is ? Yes, and I don't like it at all.
I want offline system for updates. Like Service Packs. Nothing else will satisfy me.
Stay away from that other OS then. ;) BTW how often do you expect a service pack to be made and invoiced to you?
On Sat, 2006-04-22 at 20:30 -0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Do you understand what YOU is ? Yes, and I don't like it at all.
I want offline system for updates. Like Service Packs. Nothing else will satisfy me.
In which case you are using the wrong software. You clearly need to return to the MicroSoft world that you are used to. Peter
Hi, You're right, there is a two-years support, in sense that security updates are released when something is discovered. In fact I upgrade my servers every two years, for instance I moved from 9.0 to 9.3. I would prefer having to do it every three years and for this would need to move to the enterprise version but I perfer to install the enterprise version only when I need it. Regards, Gaël
participants (15)
-
Alexey Eremenko -
Anders Johansson -
BandiPat -
Bruce Marshall -
Carl Hartung -
Carl William Spitzer IV -
Gaël Lams -
Greg Wallace -
James Ogley -
kai -
Leendert Meyer -
Mark H. Harris -
Mike McMullin -
Peter Nikolic -
Peter Onion