I just hate all this stuff. Capitalism sucks at times. The mass majority always suffers. We all have to be like hamsters on the wheel to survive. I've had my say for today. Pat ...just another silly American enduring my ride. __________________________________________________ Pat Gorden-Ozgul BNL-ISD Systems gorden@bnl.gov 631-344-5159 -----Original Message----- From: Christopher D. Reimer [mailto:creimer@rahul.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 5:36 PM To: Matthew Cc: Corvin Russell; suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] SuSE Inc. Lay offs? Apparently, this is still up in the air. Did SuSE really lay people off in the U.S. office? (Would not surprised me that much since the current market probably sink their opportunity to do a IPO now or on more favorable terms.) Or, did a single fired employee start rumors to get back at SuSE? Either way, business is business, and I hope we don't see a removal of the SuSE distribution from the U.S. market. Christopher On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Matthew wrote:
It is very disturbing :-(. Hopefully they will release a reason "why" thye are laying off most of the staff.
Good luck to all the staff!
Hopefully you will all stay in the Linux field and hopefully things will get to turn round sometime in the future.
I really hoped nothing like this would happen to an non-IPO company, or the slumps owuld not affect them as much as IPO ones...
Matt
On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Corvin Russell wrote:
It's a little disturbing that the SuSE PR person could come out and just tell a blatant untruth. Well, I believe the part about expanding marketing and sales, it fits with the blatant untruth part. Sign of things to come?
Corvin
-- Corvin Russell
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You think that sucks, try living in California with this Capitalism-inspired deregulation process. The six-story building I worked in has to cut power by 10% during the power emergency to receive steep discounts from the power company. So they cut out the heating to the entire building, and it's freezing when there's a storm or cold wind outside. On top of that, my company cuts out the overhead lights to save money on their own energy bills. Now it's dark and freezing most of the time. I would not be surprised to find out if SuSE laid off people because it couldn't pay it's power bill. Christopher Reimer On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Gorden-Ozgul, Patricia E wrote:
I just hate all this stuff. Capitalism sucks at times. The mass majority always suffers. We all have to be like hamsters on the wheel to survive. I've had my say for today. Pat ...just another silly American enduring my ride.
On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Christopher D. Reimer wrote:
You think that sucks, try living in California with this Capitalism-inspired deregulation process.
This is really off-topic, but to be fair, California's deregulation was everything BUT deregulation. The whole scheme was devised by liberals, goaded by special interests. As I understand the main problem, the state Public Utilities Commission prevented the utilities from buying power via long-range contracts, instead requiring that they buy on the inflated spot-market. Ironic that the state government now is trying to save our bacon with long-range contracts. Harumph! Lew Wolfgang
**strings of ones and zeros arranged themselves into a message from Lewie Wolfgang
You better review your California political history. Claifornia's version of 'deregulation' was socialist inspired.... The California legislature couldn't control the costs the California power companies were paying to out-of-state suppliers, but they could and did control the price those same companies could charge for power to the consumer. Fix income - soaring expenses = bankruptcies... That economics 101 only a socialist couldn't understand.. Then, the same folks who had *SUCCESSFULLY * protested so many years against building more powerplants, all throughout the time the population of California was rapidly growing, now claim corruption because those "evil" capitalist companies made profits on the sale of energy before that 'half-deregulation' was imposed. Classic disinformation. It doesn't suprise me. Folks who think that redistribution of other folks income to themselves is how money is 'earned' don't give a second thought to *demanding* redistribution of power from those states that are prudent in their planning and operation to themselves so they can continue to live the carefree life style at other peoples expense. The Free Lunch is over kiddies. Time to start making prudent plans for the future based on hard-nosed realities. 1) Good planners will allow for generating capacity of at least 20% over average maximum demand, seasonally adjusted. 2) That envolves tracking expected population growths. It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark. 3) Charging sufficient to cover the costs of generation and distirbution and maintanence. While you are at it, put these sobering facts into your calculations: The current generation of teenagers will consume ALL of the worlds supply of Coal, oil and gas, if the consumption continutes to grow at it's current rate. And we are not including the increasing demand of 'Third World' citizens on the consumption rate. Let r(t) = the current metric tons rate of consumption over interval t. Let r(i) = the initial metric ton rate of consumption. Let k = the percentage rate of consumption Let t = the time interval r(t) = r(i) * e^(k*t) Integrate from t = 0 (now) to Tout (total resource, R, is consumed) Int ( r(t))dt = r(i) * int (e^(k*t) ) dt The left side is the total resource, R and the right side is the desired result. R = [r(i)/k] *[e^(k*Tout) - 1] Solve the right side for Tout Tout = ln( [k*(R/r(i))+1] ) / k The current value of k is around 8% The estimated High value for R is 1409 X 10^9 tons The estimated Low value for R is 390 X 10^9 tons r(i) for the year 2000 ? Exercise for the class: look it up and plug it in... Then, for grins, make the High value 10 TIMES bigger. That is, pretend we locate 10 times more RECOVERABLE coal resources than we presently know about. Determine how much longer the coal resource will last. (Hint: an addition 13 years.... that's the lesson of exponential growth.) http://www.wri.org/climate/jm_oil_000.html Now isn't the time to revert to antiquated and moribund Socialist command and control structures. Now is the time to unleash free enterprise and personal initiative, along with a government Manhatten-type energy project, to get efficient, low cost solar power into mass production, and freely share the techology know-how acquired with the rest of the world: Multi-megawatt Solar Power Towers, photovotaic systems for the home, the Hydrogen economy, etc.... http://www.sandia.gov/LabNews/LN06-21-96/barstow.html http://rhlx01.rz.fht-esslingen.de/projects/alt_energy/sol_thermal/powertower... You think energy prices are too high? Too bad.. fossil fuel energy will NEVER again be as cheap as it is now. Mean while we need to cut back on neon lights, outdoor lighting, street lighting (why give the criminals light to see by when residents could use inexpensive and low powered thermal imaging units?) Have a crash program to replace vacum monitors with low power LED monitors. And more... I'm 60 years old... if I live as long as my dad did I'll see the end of the fossil fuel age too. Fortunately, I will also see the beginning of the Hydrogen economy too! (If any of us are around by then) JLK On Wednesday 07 February 2001 16:57, Christopher D. Reimer wrote:
You think that sucks, try living in California with this Capitalism-inspired deregulation process. The six-story building I worked in has to cut power by 10% during the power emergency to receive steep discounts from the power company. So they cut out the heating to the entire building, and it's freezing when there's a storm or cold wind outside. On top of that, my company cuts out the overhead lights to save money on their own energy bills. Now it's dark and freezing most of the time. I would not be surprised to find out if SuSE laid off people because it couldn't pay it's power bill.
Christopher Reimer
On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Gorden-Ozgul, Patricia E wrote:
I just hate all this stuff. Capitalism sucks at times. The mass majority always suffers. We all have to be like hamsters on the wheel to survive. I've had my say for today. Pat ...just another silly American enduring my ride.
-- "God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of people that these liberties are a gift of God? Thomas Jefferson - 1781
I was only making a joke between capitalism and the California mess. But I do appreciate the history lesson; it was interesting reading and added a few bits of information that I was not aware of. Again, given the way things are going in California, I really wouldn't be surprised by any business that would lay off people because of their power bill. Christopher On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Jerry Kreps wrote:
You better review your California political history.
I wouldn't be suprised either. In many ways the current stock market bubble is similar to the Linux IPO bubble. It is also similar to the 1920's when everyone was into the stock market, mainly on the margin. Now, folks are doing interday trading, the most dangerous racket of all and one where the player with the greatest monetary advantage usually wins, and folks are financing their speculations with credit card debt. Just gambling, not 'investing'. IMO. JLK On Wednesday 07 February 2001 19:26, Christopher D. Reimer wrote:
I was only making a joke between capitalism and the California mess. But I do appreciate the history lesson; it was interesting reading and added a few bits of information that I was not aware of. Again, given the way things are going in California, I really wouldn't be surprised by any business that would lay off people because of their power bill.
Christopher
On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Jerry Kreps wrote:
You better review your California political history.
-- "God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of people that these liberties are a gift of God? Thomas Jefferson - 1781
To clarify one important point of fact: the fixing of consumer power
rates was not "socialist-inspired", it was, in fact, requested by the
consumer power supply companies themselves at the time of
"deregulation". The idea was that there was a glut in wholesale
supply, so competition that resulted from deregulation would force
wholesale prices down. By having fixed end-user rates, the middle-men
would clean up. What happened was that demand shot up, and the
prospect of the resulting high prices removed incentives for the
now-deregulated suppliers to build new plants, ergo the current crisis.
However, supposing the system had been fully deregulated: then, I
suppose, the costs would have been passed on to consumers. In theory,
they would then reduce their usage, which would be good. But -- isn't
the ideological selling point of deregulation that efficiencies
deliver lower costs to consumers? Even if the hypothetical
deregulation had taken place, why would we want it? It wasn't broke,
didn't need fixing before pseudo-deregulation took place.
Jurisdictions that still regulate power are doing just fine. This is
an example of capitalist social engineering that we don't need.
Valete,
Corvin
"Parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus." -- Quintus Horatius
Flaccus
--
Corvin Russell
Christopher (and other disgruntled San Francisco Bay residents): How about moving down here and finding a job in Venice Beach or Santa Monica? The weather's better, you don't have to worry about power outages, housing is less expensive. You can live by the beach or in the mountains and still be in the city. Los Angeles has its own municipal utility with excess capacity. The city sells power to the grid at a profit. We Angelenos also don't tend to get as cold as you folks up north do if the heating should happen to be curtailed. (Obligatory disclosure: I have an interest in disgruntled bay area folks coming down south to live among the palm trees. I'm trying to recruit more staff.) --Steven Augart Chief Technology Officer, Sulcata, Inc. Venice Beach, California USA "Christopher D. Reimer" wrote:
You think that sucks, try living in California with this Capitalism-inspired deregulation process. The six-story building I worked in has to cut power by 10% during the power emergency to receive steep discounts from the power company. So they cut out the heating to the entire building, and it's freezing when there's a storm or cold wind outside. On top of that, my company cuts out the overhead lights to save money on their own energy bills. Now it's dark and freezing most of the time. I would not be surprised to find out if SuSE laid off people because it couldn't pay it's power bill.
Ah, but there is the smog . . . the never ending smog. Although, it is not so bad near the beach, that is true. I lived in LA for almost 3 years, and have been happier with the climate here better. If I stayed in LA for longer than 5 months with out a vacation somewhere, I started to get asthma symptoms. The cost of living is nice, however :-) Steven Augart (steve@sulcata.com) [010207 18:48]: - > Christopher (and other disgruntled San Francisco Bay residents): - > - > How about moving down here and finding a job in Venice Beach or Santa Monica? The weather's better, you don't have to worry about power outages, housing is less expensive. You can live by the beach or in the mountains and still be in the city. - > - > Los Angeles has its own municipal utility with excess capacity. The city sells power to the grid at a profit. We Angelenos also don't tend to get as cold as you folks up north do if the heating should happen to be curtailed. - > - > (Obligatory disclosure: I have an interest in disgruntled bay area folks coming down south to live among the palm trees. I'm trying to recruit more staff.) - > - > --Steven Augart - > Chief Technology Officer, Sulcata, Inc. - > Venice Beach, California USA - > - > - > - > - > "Christopher D. Reimer" wrote: - > > - > > You think that sucks, try living in California with this - > > Capitalism-inspired deregulation process. The six-story building I worked - > > in has to cut power by 10% during the power emergency to receive steep - > > discounts from the power company. So they cut out the heating to the - > > entire building, and it's freezing when there's a storm or cold wind - > > outside. On top of that, my company cuts out the overhead lights to save - > > money on their own energy bills. Now it's dark and freezing most of the - > > time. I would not be surprised to find out if SuSE laid off people - > > because it couldn't pay it's power bill. - > - > -- - > To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com - > For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com - > Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq - > I can't believe it's not UNIX!!! ------------------------------------------------------------ SuSE Inc. | Precision-Engineered Linux Leah Cunningham | PPC QA, Business Support & | QA & Development, et al. 580 2nd Street, Ste 210 | PH: 510.628.3380 Oakland, CA 94607 | FAX: 510.628.3381
On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Leah Cunningham wrote:
Ah, but there is the smog . . . the never ending smog. Although, it is not so bad near the beach, that is true. I lived in LA for almost 3 years, and have been happier with the climate here better. If I stayed in LA for longer than 5 months with out a vacation somewhere, I started to get asthma symptoms. The cost of living is nice, however :-)
The air is much cleaner here now then people think. Many of the large cities in Arizona and Texas are much worse now. I ride mtn bikes several days a week all year round and where 10 years ago I'd have burning lungs on bad summer days I haven't suffered smog-related symptoms in over 6 years. Greg
- > On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Leah Cunningham wrote: - > - > > Ah, but there is the smog . . . the never ending smog. Although, it - > > is not so bad near the beach, that is true. I lived in LA for - > > almost 3 years, and have been happier with the climate here better. - > > If I stayed in LA for longer than 5 months with out a vacation - > > somewhere, I started to get asthma symptoms. The cost of living is - > > nice, however :-) - > - > The air is much cleaner here now then people think. Many of the large - > cities in Arizona and Texas are much worse now. - > - > I ride mtn bikes several days a week all year round and where 10 years ago - > I'd have burning lungs on bad summer days I haven't suffered smog-related - > symptoms in over 6 years. That's good to hear. I did notice that it is not to bad over near the coast. I grew up in Indiana, so I'm more sensitive to the smog than most people though :-) I can't believe it's not UNIX!!! ------------------------------------------------------------ SuSE Inc. | Precision-Engineered Linux Leah Cunningham | PPC QA, Business Support & | QA & Development, et al. 580 2nd Street, Ste 210 | PH: 510.628.3380 Oakland, CA 94607 | FAX: 510.628.3381
* Steven Augart (steve@sulcata.com) [010207 19:10]:
Christopher (and other disgruntled San Francisco Bay residents):
How about moving down here and finding a job in Venice Beach or Santa Monica?
I did my undergraduate time down there...thanks, but no thanks ;) -- -ckm
At 06:48 PM 2/7/2001, Steven Augart wrote:
Christopher (and other disgruntled San Francisco Bay residents):
How about moving down here and finding a job in Venice Beach or Santa Monica? The weather's better, you don't have to worry about power outages, housing is less expensive. You can live by the beach or in the mountains and still be in the city.
Actually, I am moving but not down there. :)
Los Angeles has its own municipal utility with excess capacity. The city sells power to the grid at a profit. We Angelenos also don't tend to get as cold as you folks up north do if the heating should happen to be curtailed.
Santa Clara has there own utility. Unfortunately, I think natural gas prices are eating into their profits.
(Obligatory disclosure: I have an interest in disgruntled bay area folks coming down south to live among the palm trees. I'm trying to recruit more staff.)
Without a doubt, more than a few of us on SuSE list appreciate your offer. Good luck with your hunting! Christopher Reimer
Well , I hate to tell you , you folks voted the politicians in who "deregulated" the industry , as well as the tree guggers who made them tie up the builing process up in knots , so now you need to "deal" with it. Allright I am being simplistic about it. I am in NYC ,and have no doubt that we will be seeing the same here in the north east. This whole energy ball of wax need quit a lot of work from all ends. Makes for a bleak out look for the high tech industriy in Ca. At 02:57 PM 2/7/2001 -0800, Christopher D. Reimer wrote:
You think that sucks, try living in California with this Capitalism-inspired deregulation process. The six-story building I worked in has to cut power by 10% during the power emergency to receive steep discounts from the power company. So they cut out the heating to the entire building, and it's freezing when there's a storm or cold wind outside. On top of that, my company cuts out the overhead lights to save money on their own energy bills. Now it's dark and freezing most of the time. I would not be surprised to find out if SuSE laid off people because it couldn't pay it's power bill.
Christopher Reimer
On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Gorden-Ozgul, Patricia E wrote:
I just hate all this stuff. Capitalism sucks at times. The mass majority always suffers. We all have to be like hamsters on the wheel to survive. I've had my say for today. Pat ...just another silly American enduring my ride.
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
Move your companies out here to Missouri. We're tied deep into all the bandwidth pipes the country has and have no problems like electricity going out. Plenty of University students that'd welcome good tech jobs and we have one of the biggest Linux groups in the country. The cost of buying land is a fraction of what it is in California and the cost of living is much MUCH lower. You can fly anywhere in the country in a short time due to being dead in the middle of everything else. The company I work for does business all over the world from this comfortable and affordable little location. :) *^*^*^* Have the courage to take your own thoughts seriously, for they will shape you. -- Albert Einstein On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Well , I hate to tell you , you folks voted the politicians in who "deregulated" the industry , as well as the tree guggers who made them tie up the builing process up in knots , so now you need to "deal" with it.
Allright I am being simplistic about it. I am in NYC ,and have no doubt that we will be seeing the same here in the north east. This whole energy ball of wax need quit a lot of work from all ends.
Makes for a bleak out look for the high tech industriy in Ca.
At 02:57 PM 2/7/2001 -0800, Christopher D. Reimer wrote:
You think that sucks, try living in California with this Capitalism-inspired deregulation process. The six-story building I worked in has to cut power by 10% during the power emergency to receive steep discounts from the power company. So they cut out the heating to the entire building, and it's freezing when there's a storm or cold wind outside. On top of that, my company cuts out the overhead lights to save money on their own energy bills. Now it's dark and freezing most of the time. I would not be surprised to find out if SuSE laid off people because it couldn't pay it's power bill.
Christopher Reimer
On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Gorden-Ozgul, Patricia E wrote:
I just hate all this stuff. Capitalism sucks at times. The mass majority always suffers. We all have to be like hamsters on the wheel to survive. I've had my say for today. Pat ...just another silly American enduring my ride.
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
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Move your companies out here to Missouri. We're tied deep into all the bandwidth pipes the country has and have no problems like electricity
Hey there fellow Missourian! I agree. Plus, we could go to the offices and buy the distro direct maybe. ;-) Hey, Sm@rt Reseller even named St. Louis the best of the 25 top IT cities for cost of living last year (1/4 of that in Silicon Valley). -Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============
And, it won't be over with the coming of Summer, because we've gotten acustom to that air-conditioning, too! On Thursday 08 February 2001 01:55, Samy Elashmawy wrote:
Well , I hate to tell you , you folks voted the politicians in who "deregulated" the industry , as well as the tree guggers who made them tie up the builing process up in knots , so now you need to "deal" with it.
Allright I am being simplistic about it. I am in NYC ,and have no doubt that we will be seeing the same here in the north east. This whole energy ball of wax need quit a lot of work from all ends.
Makes for a bleak out look for the high tech industriy in Ca.
At 02:57 PM 2/7/2001 -0800, Christopher D. Reimer wrote:
You think that sucks, try living in California with this Capitalism-inspired deregulation process. The six-story building I worked in has to cut power by 10% during the power emergency to receive steep discounts from the power company. So they cut out the heating to the entire building, and it's freezing when there's a storm or cold wind outside. On top of that, my company cuts out the overhead lights to save money on their own energy bills. Now it's dark and freezing most of the time. I would not be surprised to find out if SuSE laid off people because it couldn't pay it's power bill.
Christopher Reimer
On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Gorden-Ozgul, Patricia E wrote:
I just hate all this stuff. Capitalism sucks at times. The mass majority always suffers. We all have to be like hamsters on the wheel to survive. I've had my say for today. Pat ...just another silly American enduring my ride.
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
-- "God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of people that these liberties are a gift of God? Thomas Jefferson - 1781
participants (13)
-
Christopher D. Reimer -
Christopher Mahmood -
Corvin Russell -
Gorden-Ozgul, Patricia E -
Greg Thomas -
Jerry Kreps -
jfweber＠eternal.net -
Leah Cunningham -
Lewie Wolfgang -
Michael -
Samy Elashmawy -
Steven Augart -
Timothy R. Butler