On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 17:47 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Patrik Hasibuan [10-16-07 17:44]:

...

I use opensuse10.2. I installed 'WWW::Search::Google' with cpan.

openSUSE uses the rpm system, not cpan. You *will* have many problems with dependencies and you *will* corrupt your rpm system using other package systems, cpan, deb, install, rpms for other distro/versions...

I see we're back to this again. Patrick, can you provide a single example of "problems with dependencies" and/or "corrupt your rpm system" caused by using CPAN? Specifically CPAN, not any of the other possibilities you mention. Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * joe [10-16-07 19:03]:

That's an easy one - perl tarballs are ignorant of your package database, and a cpan install will simply overwrite your existing suse package without hesitation or awareness of the fact. Likewise, rpm is unaware of the cpan installed packages lurking there and will overwrite them in case of conflict.

yes

I've been bitten enough times that I always try to find a suse package, rather than just blowing away files willy nilly with perl tarball install and hoping for the best.

and have I

In rare circumstances I've installed cpan packages, but always cross my fingers and test afterwards to make sure my perl installation isn't hosed.

again tks, Joe. I could[would] not have put it better. - -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn4472 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHFU+KClSjbQz1U5oRAkBBAKCQ0dTX2bWgTOxUoK0Q4JF7y3O70ACfU6KX N/kn1mAGJVkHtCm7KOoV6bo= =tpmj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dear Dave and Joe, Here I did: as root I do so: 1. cd /PATH/TO/.cpan/build/Net-Google-1.0 2. cp -pR lib/Net/Google/Services blib/lib/Net/Google/ 3. perl -Mblib t/001-search.t (here, I typed in my API key as the value of $key) 4. perl -Mblib t/002-spelling.t (here, I typed in my API key as the value of $key) 5. perl -Mblib t/003-cache.t (here, I typed in my API key as the value of $key) 6. perl Build.PL 7. perl Build 6. make install ====== suseonthelap:/home/patrikh/arsip/installer/pm/Net-Google-1.0/Net-Google-1.0 # whoami root suseonthelap:/home/patrikh/arsip/installer/pm/Net-Google-1.0/Net-Google-1.0 # ls blib _build Build Build.PL Changes lib Makefile Makefile.PL MANIFEST META.yml README t suseonthelap:/home/patrikh/arsip/installer/pm/Net-Google-1.0/Net-Google-1.0 # cp -pR lib/Net/Google/Services blib/lib/Net/Google/ suseonthelap:/home/patrikh/arsip/installer/pm/Net-Google-1.0/Net-Google-1.0 # perl -Mblib t/001-search.t 1..5 ok 1 - Read Google API key ok 2 - use Net::Google; ok 3 - The object isa Net::Google ok 4 - The object isa Net::Google::Search Exception from service object: Invalid authorization key: ABQIAAAASzVWEo9_PkDjwjTkhPHJIxTovFWtVmuuMSRYt_dv3iXA1zQ3OxT9hxr3F7hqD-SZIzQb7p0QjzUobQ at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/SOAP/Lite.pm line 3412 ok 5 - Got results for related:http://perl.aaronland.net Google returned 0 results: suseonthelap:/home/patrikh/arsip/installer/pm/Net-Google-1.0/Net-Google-1.0 # perl -Mblib t/002-spelling.t 1..5 ok 1 - Read Google API key ok 2 - use Net::Google; ok 3 - The object isa Net::Google ok 4 - The object isa Net::Google::Spelling Exception from service object: Invalid authorization key: ABQIAAAASzVWEo9_PkDjwjTkhPHJIxTovFWtVmuuMSRYt_dv3iXA1zQ3OxT9hxr3F7hqD-SZIzQb7p0QjzUobQ at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/SOAP/Lite.pm line 3412 not ok 5 - The correct spelling of 'neu yirk citee' is 'new york city' # Failed test 'The correct spelling of 'neu yirk citee' is 'new york city'' # at t/002-spelling.t line 41. # got: undef # expected: 'new york city' # Looks like you failed 1 test of 5. suseonthelap:/home/patrikh/arsip/installer/pm/Net-Google-1.0/Net-Google-1.0 # perl -Mblib t/003-cache.t 1..5 ok 1 - Got Google API key ok 2 - use Net::Google; ok 3 - The object isa Net::Google ok 4 - The object isa Net::Google::Cache Exception from service object: Invalid authorization key: ABQIAAAASzVWEo9_PkDjwjTkhPHJIxTovFWtVmuuMSRYt_dv3iXA1zQ3OxT9hxr3F7hqD-SZIzQb7p0QjzUobQ at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/SOAP/Lite.pm line 3412 not ok 5 - Got cache for http://aaronland.net # Failed test 'Got cache for http://aaronland.net' # at t/003-cache.t line 42. # Looks like you failed 1 test of 5. suseonthelap:/home/patrikh/arsip/installer/pm/Net-Google-1.0/Net-Google-1.0 # perl Build.PL Checking whether your kit is complete... Looks good Checking prerequisites... Looks good Deleting Build Removed previous script 'Build' Creating new 'Build' script for 'Net-Google' version '1.0' suseonthelap:/home/patrikh/arsip/installer/pm/Net-Google-1.0/Net-Google-1.0 # perl Build suseonthelap:/home/patrikh/arsip/installer/pm/Net-Google-1.0/Net-Google-1.0 # make install /usr/bin/perl Build --makefile_env_macros 1 install Skipping /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Net/Google.pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Net/Google/Search.pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Net/Google/tool.pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Net/Google/Spelling.pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Net/Google/Cache.pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Net/Google/Service.pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Net/Google/Response.pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Net/Google/GoogleSearch.wsdl (unchanged) Skipping /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Net/Google/Services/GoogleSearch.wsdl (unchanged) Skipping /usr/share/man/man3/Net::Google::tool.3pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/share/man/man3/Net::Google::Response.3pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/share/man/man3/Net::Google::Search.3pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/share/man/man3/Net::Google::Cache.3pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/share/man/man3/Net::Google.3pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/share/man/man3/Net::Google::Service.3pm (unchanged) Skipping /usr/share/man/man3/Net::Google::Spelling.3pm (unchanged) Writing /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i586-linux-thread-multi/auto/Net/Google/.packlist suseonthelap:/home/patrikh/arsip/installer/pm/Net-Google-1.0/Net-Google-1.0 # ====== But the error message is still this one: ./googleku.pl Exception from service object: Invalid authorization key: ABQIAAAASzVWEo9_PkDjwjTkhPHJIxRVKfLtW6hUIq_dyO2cW4cqhEYIWRTV1zrZCha92gqEsRqFh_JYMutL-w at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/SOAP/Lite.pm line 3412 ==== Please tell me my mistake. tell me the solution. Thank you very much in advance. On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 09:59:26 +0100 Dave Howorth wrote:

joe wrote:

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Dave Howorth wrote:

...

...

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I use opensuse10.2. I installed 'WWW::Search::Google' with cpan. openSUSE uses the rpm system, not cpan. You *will* have many problems with dependencies and you *will* corrupt your rpm system using other

* Patrik Hasibuan [10-16-07 17:44]: package systems, cpan, deb, install, rpms for other distro/versions... I see we're back to this again. Patrick, can you provide a single example of "problems with dependencies" and/or "corrupt your rpm system" caused by using CPAN? Specifically CPAN, not any of the other

On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 17:47 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote: possibilities you mention.

That's an easy one - perl tarballs are ignorant of your package database, and a cpan install will simply overwrite your existing suse package without hesitation or awareness of the fact. Likewise, rpm is unaware of the cpan installed packages lurking there and will overwrite them in case of conflict.

This shouldn't happen. There is a built-in mechanism to prevent such conflicts. Can you please supply specific details of any packages where this has occurred? What is the package name, Suse and CPAN versions, which files have been overwritten (ls -l would be useful). And which applications were broken as a result?

Thanks, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- Patrik Hasibuan Junior Programmer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth wrote:

joe wrote:

...

That's an easy one - perl tarballs are ignorant of your package database, and a cpan install will simply overwrite your existing suse package without hesitation or awareness of the fact. Likewise, rpm is unaware of the cpan installed packages lurking there and will overwrite them in case of conflict.

This shouldn't happen. There is a built-in mechanism to prevent such conflicts. Can you please supply specific details of any packages where this has occurred? What is the package name, Suse and CPAN versions, which files have been overwritten (ls -l would be useful). And which applications were broken as a result?

It's been some months - I don't remember all the packages and versions installed anymore, but I do remember clearly that upon installing some cpan packages my maia mailguard system promptly broke. I was able to get it back up and running only after surgically removing every trace of perl and reinstalling it from rpm packages. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Sloan [10-17-07 13:46]:

...

It's been some months - I don't remember all the packages and versions installed anymore, but I do remember clearly that upon installing some cpan packages my maia mailguard system promptly broke. I was able to get it back up and running only after surgically removing every trace of perl and reinstalling it from rpm packages.

I borked spamassassin some time back and had a devil of a time replacing the cpan files with ones that openSUSE or SuSE could use and update. It has been quite some time and I do not recall the particulars, but would not touch that again with ....

I cannot provide the particulars requested, but do not feel like a reinstall to prove/disprove an action where I *was* burned :^)

I absolutely sympathise with your desire not to self-induce more grief! But without details, such problems will never get fixed. And we'll never know exactly what the cause was and exactly what package was to blame. In those circumstances, I feel that making sweeping accusations that the CPAN mechanism is the source of the trouble is entirely unjustified. Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sloan wrote:

Dave Howorth wrote:

...

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

I borked spamassassin some time back and had a devil of a time replacing the cpan files with ones that openSUSE or SuSE could use and update. It has been quite some time and I do not recall the particulars, but would not touch that again with ....

I cannot provide the particulars requested, but do not feel like a reinstall to prove/disprove an action where I *was* burned :^)

I absolutely sympathise with your desire not to self-induce more grief! But without details, such problems will never get fixed. And we'll never know exactly what the cause was and exactly what package was to blame.

In those circumstances, I feel that making sweeping accusations that the CPAN mechanism is the source of the trouble is entirely unjustified.

We tend to learn quickly when burned. The problem seems to be mixing components of perl from different worlds. I'm willing to do some testing along these lines, on test machines, as time allows.

Joe

Sloan wrote:

Maia is not available as a package, it's a manual install. The problem seems to be mixing components of perl from different worlds.

Indeed. My difficulty is that you made the claim that installing modules from CPAN broke Suse packages. As far as I can see, you have presented no evidence to back up that claim. The most likely explanation I can see is that a third-party package that you installed (maia) has dependency problems. Without details, it's impossible to establish whether maia itself is the source of the problem or one or more of the modules it uses is. In any event, all that I can see is that packages sometimes have bugs, not that the CPAN installation mechanism is broken or that it should not be used on Suse systems. Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dave Howorth wrote:

Sloan wrote:

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Dave Howorth wrote:

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Patrick Shanahan wrote:

<snip>

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Joe

Sloan wrote:

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Maia is not available as a package, it's a manual install. The problem seems to be mixing components of perl from different worlds.

Indeed. My difficulty is that you made the claim that installing modules from CPAN broke Suse packages. As far as I can see, you have presented no evidence to back up that claim.

<snip> I think this is part of a more general issue which it may be worthwhile to address. Some guidelines on how to deal with installing (and locally maintaining) applications which for one reason or another will not fit within the SuSE normal build parameters. On some occasions I think one can get little to involved in trying to force the square peg into the round hole, rather than figuring out that it might be more useful to have both a square hole and a round hole... Just a thought.... - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHGcV4asN0sSnLmgIRAlTqAJwMOD6L2dLfomX7QMGwB0+P3V3/qQCg4cUm 6xp8q+bsaeQ1Znz/zut8k3o= =k+pW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth wrote:

Sloan wrote:

...

It's been some months - I don't remember all the packages and versions installed anymore, but I do remember clearly that upon installing some cpan packages my maia mailguard system promptly broke. I was able to get it back up and running only after surgically removing every trace of perl and reinstalling it from rpm packages.

Without specific details it's practically impossible to say what happened or to fix any such problems. It would be much better to file a bug report at the time, when details are fresh.

Indeed - my only concern was to get the server running again, and learned a valuable lesson. But it's interesting that Patrick reported a similar problem with his spamassassin install, so that is a common thread between our 2 scenarios.

I can't find maia when I search the Suse repositories. Which package is it in?

Maia is not available as a package, it's a manual install. Basically it supplies the missing piece for spam quarantine management. It's a top layer that works with existing postfix, amavis, spamassassin, clamav, apache, mysql and perl functionality and ties it all together. I use it at home, and have deployed it in a number of shops, as well as my main employer with 14,000 mailboxes. For a heads up, look at http://maiamailguard.com/maia/wiki/AboutMaia Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith wrote:

CPAN perl repository stuff do not normally affect the non-perl libraries on the host system (it will complain if the version of a non-perl library is not correct but it will not replace it, it will update any perl related dependencies). e.g. The cdio perl library refuses to install because it cannot compile against the SuSE libraries. It is up the user to install the appropriate libraries or non-perl executable components a module requires within the context of the OS...

I am using a number of CPAN components which do not exist in the SuSE repository in rpm form. Perl is its own universe and once you have installed perl components from CPAN it is probably unwise to update with SuSE perl rpms and it is probably a good idea to continue maintaining perl with CPAN only....CPAN has its own mechanism for tracking perl components and updates on the system, and once one is committed to CPAN I would say the reverse is more accurate, SuSE rpms may damage the perl configuration...

That's not supposed to happen either. Look at your @INC: perl -e '{ print "@INC\n" }' You should see site_perl directories that are used by modules installed from CPAN and vendor_perl directories that are used by modules installed from Suse rpms. Applications from Suse rpms should have their @INC set so that they never see the site_perl directories, which is why I'm asking Joe and Patrick for details of the offending programs they say they've seen. Conversely, applications that you build yourself will use any modules installed from Suse rpms by default but will give preference to any that you install from CPAN. Any Suse rpms subsequently installed won't affect modules installed from CPAN. Again, if you know of any that actually do, please say what they are! Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith wrote:

Nice to know about this, and that is the case. The basic @INC is something I take a hands off approach to at the moment ..., though I will need to take a more detailed look at a future date as using FindBin is apparently discouraged for distributed perl stuff.

I've never used FindBin and the only modification I ever make to @INC is via use lib to add a path to modules I'm developing.

However I have noticed on a couple of occasions that CPAN seems to flag that the SuSE installed version is the latest and only acts if required... Not too sure what this implies if for any reason the site version becomes older than the SuSE version (say after an OS upgrade.. ).

Your programs will continue to access the existing CPAN version. Suse programs should access the updated Suse version. But if I saw such an upgrade occurring, I'd upgrade the CPAN one as well. In practice, it never happens because I always load a fresh copy of a new version of the OS and then reinstall all the CPAN modules I need. Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org