Cautionary Tales: lm_sensors for beginners
For the first time since starting to use Linux, I decided that I will go really high tech and start using lm_sensors on SUSE 10.1. I used the /usr/sbin/sensors- detect command and let it find them and then "do its thing" to create the lm_sensors configuration file. Because it was time for me to go biddie-byes I didn't reboot but shut the system down and went to bed. This morning I booted-up the system and suddenly I was hit by a very high pitched sound coming from the computer. Ear-splitting it was :-( and to me this is a no-no 'cause I suffer from tinnitus. Took a while to pinpoint the sound as coming from the rheostat on the (front) panel which controls the speed of the Gigabyte CPU heatsink fan. There was not a murmur when I booted into the "other" OS so it was something in SUSE. Finally[0] dawned on me that the only thing that changed between "no noise" and "hight-pitched noise" was the creation of the lm_sensors file in /etc/sysconfig. I renamed lm_sensors file, rebooted and the sound vanished. So, if you configure lm_sensors and suddenly find that there is a very high-pitched sound coming from the innards of your computer case then you now know what you can try and do to get rid of it. [0] I have another rheostat on another (front) panel which controls the speed of the PSU and case fans which occasionally makes a similar noise if the speed of the case fans drops too low, and just gently tapping the control knob gets rid of the noise. My initial reaction to the above was that it was this that was causing the high-pitched sound. Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1
I used the /usr/sbin/sensors- detect command and let it find them and then "do its thing" to create the lm_sensors configuration file. Because it was time for me to go biddie-byes I didn't reboot but shut the system down and went to bed. Creating the lm_sensors file in /etc/sysconfig only puts in variables. It doesn't do anything. You also need to copy the startup script for SUSE from /usr/share/doc/packages/sensors/prog/init to /etc/init.d and
Basil Chupin wrote: then enable it. Did you also do that?
This morning I booted-up the system and suddenly I was hit by a very high pitched sound coming from the computer. <snip> Finally[0] dawned on me that the only thing that changed between "no noise" and "hight-pitched noise" was the creation of the lm_sensors file in /etc/sysconfig. I renamed lm_sensors file, rebooted and the sound vanished.
If all you did was create the lm_sensors file, i seriously doubt that was the problem. If you also copied the startup script, and enabled it, then it could make sense, but you could have just as easily stopped it and disabled it. It could be the defaults for your sensors chip will need tweaking for your configuration. -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871
Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
I used the /usr/sbin/sensors- detect command and let it find them and then "do its thing" to create the lm_sensors configuration file. Because it was time for me to go biddie-byes I didn't reboot but shut the system down and went to bed.
Creating the lm_sensors file in /etc/sysconfig only puts in variables. It doesn't do anything. You also need to copy the startup script for SUSE from /usr/share/doc/packages/sensors/prog/init to /etc/init.d and then enable it. Did you also do that?
Nope.
This morning I booted-up the system and suddenly I was hit by a very high pitched sound coming from the computer. <snip> Finally[0] dawned on me that the only thing that changed between "no noise" and "hight-pitched noise" was the creation of the lm_sensors file in /etc/sysconfig. I renamed lm_sensors file, rebooted and the sound vanished.
If all you did was create the lm_sensors file, i seriously doubt that was the problem. If you also copied the startup script, and enabled it, then it could make sense, but you could have just as easily stopped it and disabled it. It could be the defaults for your sensors chip will need tweaking for your configuration.
My message of a "Cautionary Tale" is more relevant than I expected :-) . I did nothing more than run sensors-detect and accept the findings which created the lm_sensors file. The sound effect is reproducible - I just did a couple of times - so there is something going on in connection with lm_sensors file which causes the high-pitched noise - and possibly *because* I did nothing more than have this file created and did not follow-up with the startup script. Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1
On Friday 08 September 2006 22:08, Basil Chupin wrote:
So, if you configure lm_sensors and suddenly find that there is a very high-pitched sound coming from the innards of your computer case then you now know what you can try and do to get rid of it.
Yes, look frantically around for reostats on the computer ... Wait a minute, I've never ONCE seen a reostat on a computer, or a fan controlled by such. Where DID you get that thing Basil? Army Surplus ? ;-) -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
John Andersen wrote:
On Friday 08 September 2006 22:08, Basil Chupin wrote:
So, if you configure lm_sensors and suddenly find that there is a very high-pitched sound coming from the innards of your computer case then you now know what you can try and do to get rid of it.
Yes, look frantically around for reostats on the computer ... Wait a minute, I've never ONCE seen a reostat on a computer, or a fan controlled by such.
Where DID you get that thing Basil? Army Surplus ? ;-)
Ok, if you want me to call it a "speed controller" rather than a rheostat then to make you happy I'll call it a "speed controller" :-) . One "speed controller" controls the fans in the Antec PSU and the 120mm case fans and the other "speed controller" controls the blower cooling the heat pipes on the Gigabyte heatsink. It was the latter that was making the high-pitched noise. Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1
On Saturday 09 September 2006 00:20, Basil Chupin wrote:
One "speed controller" controls the fans in the Antec PSU and the 120mm case fans and the other "speed controller" controls the blower cooling the heat pipes on the Gigabyte heatsink. It was the latter that was making the high-pitched noise.
So these things are not knobs you twiddle, but rather something the OS is supposed to manage? -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
On Saturday 09 September 2006 10:22, John Andersen wrote:
On Saturday 09 September 2006 00:20, Basil Chupin wrote:
One "speed controller" controls the fans in the Antec PSU and the 120mm case fans and the other "speed controller" controls the blower cooling the heat pipes on the Gigabyte heatsink. It was the latter that was making the high-pitched noise.
So these things are not knobs you twiddle, but rather something the OS is supposed to manage?
Let's see if we can make this simple for you. These are manually controlled fans. They use a knob that you can use to control the speed of the fan based on your own needs. Not too hard to understand really. There are also models available, mainly for cpu's, that are controlled by heat sensors that will vary the speed of the cpu fan depending on how much load, and heat is being generated by the cpu. OH, and no, the OS is totally unaware of these 'manual' knobs. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 10.0 Kernel 2.6.13 X86_64 KDE 3.4 Kmail 1.8 11:14am up 6 days 2:15, 4 users, load average: 2.04, 2.10, 2.13
John Andersen wrote:
On Saturday 09 September 2006 00:20, Basil Chupin wrote:
One "speed controller" controls the fans in the Antec PSU and the 120mm case fans and the other "speed controller" controls the blower cooling the heat pipes on the Gigabyte heatsink. It was the latter that was making the high-pitched noise.
So these things are not knobs you twiddle, but rather something the OS is supposed to manage?
No, these *are* knobs I twiddle to manually increase/decrease the speed of the blower or fans. The fans are automatically controlled by the PSU from input from sensors on the motherboard. The knob-twiddling is a manual control which I can use to override the base speed of the PSU and the case fans if I think that the temperature inside the case should be lower. In hotter weather I up the fan speeds for all 4 fans (2X PSU, 2X case) to get the air inside the case moving quicker. I set the RPM of these fans at ~1650 RPM. I twiddle with the heatsink blower knob when ambient temperature goes up to keep the CPU temperature down. The speed of the blower is adjustable from 2000 RPM to 4500 RPM. I normally run it at 2500 RPM but have never had to go past 3200 RPM to keep the CPU at a comfortable temperature. Highest it ever got to on a very hot day here was 56C. Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1
Basil Chupin wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
On Saturday 09 September 2006 00:20, Basil Chupin wrote:
One "speed controller" controls the fans in the Antec PSU and the 120mm case fans and the other "speed controller" controls the blower cooling the heat pipes on the Gigabyte heatsink. It was the latter that was making the high-pitched noise.
So these things are not knobs you twiddle, but rather something the OS is supposed to manage?
No, these *are* knobs I twiddle to manually increase/decrease the speed of the blower or fans.
Actually, those knobs are like the ones on the Star Ship Enterprise. They don't do anything. They're only there for show! ;-)
On Saturday 09 September 2006 05:09, Basil Chupin wrote:
The fans are automatically controlled by the PSU from input from sensors on the motherboard. The knob-twiddling is a manual control which I can use to override the base speed of the PSU and the case fans if I think that the temperature inside the case should be lower. In hotter weather I up the fan speeds for all 4 fans (2X PSU, 2X case) to get the air inside the case moving quicker. I set the RPM of these fans at ~1650 RPM.
Well then I re-iterate my first statement... I've never heard of rheostats on on computer fans. Anything not demand controlled from by the computer itself is just asking for trouble IMHO. Its a computer. Its got all the time in the world to watch its own temperature. Remember: it works for you, not the other way around. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
John Andersen wrote:
On Saturday 09 September 2006 05:09, Basil Chupin wrote:
The fans are automatically controlled by the PSU from input from sensors on the motherboard. The knob-twiddling is a manual control which I can use to override the base speed of the PSU and the case fans if I think that the temperature inside the case should be lower. In hotter weather I up the fan speeds for all 4 fans (2X PSU, 2X case) to get the air inside the case moving quicker. I set the RPM of these fans at ~1650 RPM.
Well then I re-iterate my first statement... I've never heard of rheostats on on computer fans. Anything not demand controlled from by the computer itself is just asking for trouble IMHO.
Its a computer. Its got all the time in the world to watch its own temperature. Remember: it works for you, not the other way around.
I also find it very unusual. I've never heard of such a thing either.
* John Andersen <jsa@pen.homeip.net> [09-09-06 16:14]:
Well then I re-iterate my first statement... I've never heard of rheostats on on computer fans. Anything not demand controlled from by the computer itself is just asking for trouble IMHO.
My server case has a knob to control (rheostat) the rear case fan. It also has an 'auto' setting which I use. Case has 4 fans plus cpu and contains 6 hard drives, 2 dvds and an ascpi floppy drive (LS120). I also have lm_sensors configured and active w/o a problem. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2
On Saturday 09 September 2006 13:13, John Andersen wrote:
...
Well then I re-iterate my first statement... I've never heard of rheostats on on computer fans. ...
You've heard of them now, right? So you'll refrain from this refrain in the future?
...
RRS
On Saturday 09 September 2006 22:13, John Andersen wrote:
Well then I re-iterate my first statement... I've never heard of rheostats on on computer fans. Anything not demand controlled from by the computer itself is just asking for trouble IMHO.
Then I'd suggest looking at this page. Fully adjustable either manually or by temp. http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/2005/dcfans/smartfan/a1357.htm Then perhaps wander around the site a bit, and perhaps you will change your opinion. -- Powered by SuSE 10.0 Kernel 2.6.13 X86_64 KDE 3.4 Kmail 1.8 7:22am up 6 days 22:24, 4 users, load average: 2.18, 2.27, 2.23
On Saturday 09 September 2006 21:24, Mike wrote:
Then I'd suggest looking at this page. Fully adjustable either manually or by temp.
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/2005/dcfans/smartfan/a1357.htm
Then perhaps wander around the site a bit, and perhaps you will change your opinion.
Nope. I have a life. I don't intend to sit around adjusting cooling for a machine. Either it handles it itself, or I get one that will. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
Basil Chupin wrote:
Ok, if you want me to call it a "speed controller" rather than a rheostat then to make you happy I'll call it a "speed controller" :-)
Personally, I'd prefer potentiometer. I had to go lookup what a "rheostat" is :-)
One "speed controller" controls the fans in the Antec PSU and the 120mm case fans and the other "speed controller" controls the blower cooling the heat pipes on the Gigabyte heatsink. It was the latter that was making the high-pitched noise.
Because it was going at max revs? /Per Jessen, Zürich
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 10:24 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Ok, if you want me to call it a "speed controller" rather than a rheostat then to make you happy I'll call it a "speed controller" :-)
Personally, I'd prefer potentiometer. I had to go lookup what a "rheostat" is :-)
| From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]: | | Rheostat \Rhe"o*stat\ (r[=e]"[-o]*st[a^]t), n. [Gr. "rei^n + | stato`s standing still.] (Elec.) | A contrivance for adjusting or regulating the strength of | electrical currents, operating usually by the intercalation | of resistance which can be varied at will. --Wheatstone. | --{Rhe`o*stat"ic}, a. | [1913 Webster] Here, in Spain, the word is old fashioned; by rheostat I understand a coiled wire device designed for power, ie, for directly controlling the current of a (relatively) high power device, as a motor or fan. A potentiometer is always very low power. Thinking about what Basil reported, the only explanation I can think of is that the computer was turning on and off the current fast on the fan circuit; being a coil, the rheostat can vibrate. That is, if his circuit is really a rheostat and not an active electronic circuit. I have found that effect when using a tyristor circuit (dimmer) to control an open air coiled wire stove: at some settings it vibrated, but softly. In fact, if you put a dimmer at middrange controlling a bulb, and poise a magnet to the bulb, you can see the filament oscillating wildly (and finally breaking). - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFApqktTMYHG2NR9URAiCOAJ9K/ZW0o85KPDk/hTfn88mqfcoz8QCdE/gW dQfLEGRvqcSeFP2Gpx5P1S0= =Eptv -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 10:24 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Ok, if you want me to call it a "speed controller" rather than a rheostat then to make you happy I'll call it a "speed controller" :-) Personally, I'd prefer potentiometer. I had to go lookup what a "rheostat" is :-)
| From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]: | | Rheostat \Rhe"o*stat\ (r[=e]"[-o]*st[a^]t), n. [Gr. "rei^n + | stato`s standing still.] (Elec.) | A contrivance for adjusting or regulating the strength of | electrical currents, operating usually by the intercalation | of resistance which can be varied at will. --Wheatstone. | --{Rhe`o*stat"ic}, a. | [1913 Webster]
Here, in Spain, the word is old fashioned; by rheostat I understand a coiled wire device designed for power, ie, for directly controlling the current of a (relatively) high power device, as a motor or fan. A potentiometer is always very low power.
Thinking about what Basil reported, the only explanation I can think of is that the computer was turning on and off the current fast on the fan circuit; being a coil, the rheostat can vibrate. That is, if his circuit is really a rheostat and not an active electronic circuit.
The heatsink has a "smart IC controller" which provides "linear fan speed and noise control" and this is also controlled by a "VR control function". The "VR control function" I read to be "variable resistor control function" which in my limited electrical knowledge equates to a rheostat or potentiometer :-) .
I have found that effect when using a tyristor circuit (dimmer) to control an open air coiled wire stove: at some settings it vibrated, but softly. In fact, if you put a dimmer at middrange controlling a bulb, and poise a magnet to the bulb, you can see the filament oscillating wildly (and finally breaking).
Now I find this explanation most interesting. This may explain why I get a high-pitched vibrating sound from the "control knob" for the PSU/case fans at a certain (low) speed. Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 23:37 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Now I find this explanation most interesting. This may explain why I get a high-pitched vibrating sound from the "control knob" for the PSU/case fans at a certain (low) speed.
Still, I find it difficult to believe/understand... I would need to see the schematic to make certain. It is possible, but weird. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFAs5TtTMYHG2NR9URAvZ0AJ9Dw/+VM0Uu/jOVhuV/YMjI390DtwCfdAWy logLMYgZO4JHuWL5aluGNas= =EOBP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 23:37 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Now I find this explanation most interesting. This may explain why I get a high-pitched vibrating sound from the "control knob" for the PSU/case fans at a certain (low) speed.
Still, I find it difficult to believe/understand... I would need to see the schematic to make certain. It is possible, but weird.
You're forgetting that we are dealing with computer components here :-) . Anything is possible. (Can't help with a schematic but if it is of any help it is a Gigabyte PCU31-VH CPU cooler.) Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1
On Saturday 09 September 2006 16:34, Basil Chupin wrote:
Still, I find it difficult to believe/understand... I would need to see the schematic to make certain. It is possible, but weird.
You're forgetting that we are dealing with computer components here :-) . Anything is possible.
(Can't help with a schematic but if it is of any help it is a Gigabyte PCU31-VH CPU cooler.)
Or he can stop by the thermaltake site. They have tons of these exact types of fans. Manually controlled, thermally controlled, and so on. I guess they aren't available where he lives. Personally I like them. Most are very quiet even when running at full speed. And I've got two 8cm fans blowing on three HD's, two more for pulling hot air from the cpus, two more above the PSU for exhaust, and two in the PSU. One of the fans in the PSU is manually controllable. The system isn't that noisy, as I can still hear the wife when she calls me for dinner.. ;-) Mike -- Powered by SuSE 10.0 Kernel 2.6.13 X86_64 KDE 3.4 Kmail 1.8 5:17pm up 6 days 8:18, 4 users, load average: 2.32, 2.22, 2.17
Mike wrote:
On Saturday 09 September 2006 16:34, Basil Chupin wrote:
Still, I find it difficult to believe/understand... I would need to see the schematic to make certain. It is possible, but weird. You're forgetting that we are dealing with computer components here :-) . Anything is possible.
(Can't help with a schematic but if it is of any help it is a Gigabyte PCU31-VH CPU cooler.)
Or he can stop by the thermaltake site. They have tons of these exact types of fans. Manually controlled, thermally controlled, and so on. I guess they aren't available where he lives. Personally I like them.
One of the things I liked about it was how the heatsink contact surface was prepared at the factory. It required no lapping or polishing - all this was already done at the factory. Most impressive.
Most are very quiet even when running at full speed. And I've got two 8cm fans blowing on three HD's, two more for pulling hot air from the cpus, two more above the PSU for exhaust, and two in the PSU. One of the fans in the PSU is manually controllable. The system isn't that noisy, as I can still hear the wife when she calls me for dinner.. ;-)
Well it could also mean that your wife makes a rather loud call :-) . With all those fans (plus all the other components drawing power) what do you use as the PSU? Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1
On Saturday 09 September 2006 17:48, Basil Chupin wrote:
One of the things I liked about it was how the heatsink contact surface was prepared at the factory. It required no lapping or polishing - all this was already done at the factory. Most impressive.
That is nice. The thermaltake heatsinks I've used are nice also. Always quiet, and pretty easy to install.
Most are very quiet even when running at full speed. And I've got two 8cm fans blowing on three HD's, two more for pulling hot air from the cpus, two more above the PSU for exhaust, and two in the PSU. One of the fans in the PSU is manually controllable. The system isn't that noisy, as I can still hear the wife when she calls me for dinner.. ;-)
Well it could also mean that your wife makes a rather loud call :-) .
No.. she's actually pretty quiet. ;-))
With all those fans (plus all the other components drawing power) what do you use as the PSU?
Thermaltake 480w ATX type. Don't remember the exact model, but I've had it for quite a while. It just keeps working. And it's got more connectors than I'll ever need. If you are really interested, contact me off-list, and I can tell you more about what is being powered here. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 10.0 Kernel 2.6.13 X86_64 KDE 3.4 Kmail 1.8 6:20pm up 6 days 9:21, 4 users, load average: 2.16, 2.18, 2.17
Per Jessen wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Ok, if you want me to call it a "speed controller" rather than a rheostat then to make you happy I'll call it a "speed controller" :-)
Personally, I'd prefer potentiometer. I had to go lookup what a "rheostat" is :-)
Either is a physical device, that changes resistance. I doubt either would be used in a computer for controlling fan speed. Incidentally, a rheostat is a variable resistance, connected in series with a load to control current. A potentiometer is a variable tap on a resistor, usually used for adjusting a voltage level.
James, On Saturday 09 September 2006 05:01, James Knott wrote:
Per Jessen wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Ok, if you want me to call it a "speed controller" rather than a rheostat then to make you happy I'll call it a "speed controller" :-)
Personally, I'd prefer potentiometer. I had to go lookup what a "rheostat" is :-)
Either is a physical device, that changes resistance. I doubt either would be used in a computer for controlling fan speed.
Doubt is fine, but in this case you're wrong. My X-SuperAlien case has three of these, two on the front panel controll the four cabinet fans and the two hard drive bay fans, resp., plus a third on the PSU controll its intake and exhaust fans. It's all manual with no feedback from any sensors. It's certainly less than ideal, but I had a hard time finding a cabinet with enough cooling, enough drive bays and a big enough power supply. I ended up with a case with a big window, fans with blue LEDs and fluorescent cable sheathing. When my niece first saw it, she thought it was an aquarium! Fortunately, the CPU-mounted fan is controlled by the main-board sensor circuitry. I know I don't have the cabinet fans on high enough when I start to hear that fan.
Incidentally, a rheostat is a variable resistance, connected in series with a load to control current. A potentiometer is a variable tap on a resistor, usually used for adjusting a voltage level.
Yeah. We got that. There're probably more than a few EE types here (probably including some of us erstwhile EE types now doing software 'cause of the hideous math the make the EEs learn!) Randall Schulz
On Saturday 09 September 2006 16:26, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Doubt is fine, but in this case you're wrong. My X-SuperAlien case has three of these, two on the front panel controll the four cabinet fans and the two hard drive bay fans, resp., plus a third on the PSU controll its intake and exhaust fans.
Is that a mid-tower, or full tower? I'm in the market for another case for my project machine. And like you my case Lian-li PC70 has lots of space for fans. I do like the newer cases though as they use the 120mm fans that are quieter. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 10.0 Kernel 2.6.13 X86_64 KDE 3.4 Kmail 1.8 5:24pm up 6 days 8:25, 4 users, load average: 2.04, 2.12, 2.14
Mike, On Saturday 09 September 2006 08:26, Mike wrote:
On Saturday 09 September 2006 16:26, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Doubt is fine, but in this case you're wrong. My X-SuperAlien case has three of these, two on the front panel controll the four cabinet fans and the two hard drive bay fans, resp., plus a third on the PSU controll its intake and exhaust fans.
Is that a mid-tower, or full tower? I'm in the market for another case for my project machine. And like you my case Lian-li PC70 has lots of space for fans. I do like the newer cases though as they use the 120mm fans that are quieter.
It's a full tower: - 5 5 1/4" CD / DVD drive bays - 2 diskette bays - 5 3 1/2" hard-drive bays - 500-watt power supply - Front-panel audio (in & out), USB (2) and FireWire ports The two fans that cool the hard-drive bay are 120mm. The side, top and rear fans are 70mm units. It does not have the supposedly required side vent ducting driectly onto the CPU cooling fan, but it does have a side fan (in the lucite portion of the case) and a top fan in addition to the two rear fans and the two (120 mm) fans on the drive bay, which is at the front. There's a hinged front-panel cover, but I don't like the idea 'cause I'm afraid that if it's closed when a CD/DVD drive ejects its tray there could be damage to the drive's tray mechanism. I removed it. Although the illumination and transparent sides are a bit garish, it's the most functional and capacious cabinet I've ever been able to find. Here's a review: <http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Computer-Cases/XPCases-XSuperalien-Case-Review/>.
Mike
Randall Schulz
On Saturday 09 September 2006 17:58, Randall R Schulz wrote: Randall,
It's a full tower:
- 5 5 1/4" CD / DVD drive bays - 2 diskette bays - 5 3 1/2" hard-drive bays - 500-watt power supply - Front-panel audio (in & out), USB (2) and FireWire ports
Thanks for the info. Nice case. And I have to agree about the from cover. I'd remove it too. Think I might have to see if I can find a place that will ship to me.
Although the illumination and transparent sides are a bit garish, it's the most functional and capacious cabinet I've ever been able to find.
With the exception of no removable MB piece, I like all the room that this PC-70 has. At one time I had 5 SCSI hd's in it, with room to spare. ;-) But scsi is expensive when compared to ide or even SATA now. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 10.0 Kernel 2.6.13 X86_64 KDE 3.4 Kmail 1.8 6:24pm up 6 days 9:25, 4 users, load average: 2.12, 2.17, 2.17
Per Jessen wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Ok, if you want me to call it a "speed controller" rather than a rheostat then to make you happy I'll call it a "speed controller" :-)
Personally, I'd prefer potentiometer. I had to go lookup what a "rheostat" is :-)
OK, just for you, and as a "Today Only Special", I'll call the gizmo a potentiometer :-) .
One "speed controller" controls the fans in the Antec PSU and the 120mm case fans and the other "speed controller" controls the blower cooling the heat pipes on the Gigabyte heatsink. It was the latter that was making the high-pitched noise.
Because it was going at max revs?
No, not at all. It has never run at its max. speed. Max speed is 4500 RPM and it normally runs at 2500 RPM. It's running at this speed at the moment but is not making a sound - I can hear the HDs reading/writing - because the lm_sensors file is not visible. Make it 'visible' to SUSE and the sound starts. Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 23:17 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
- because the lm_sensors file is not visible. Make it 'visible' to SUSE and the sound starts.
That may be because the script/program responsible does not run, ie, exits, if it doesn't find the configuration file. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFAs6ptTMYHG2NR9URAn7VAJ9QPKUt1hYVXVBMi71r39kaYGikiQCffLR7 tan22ag7iLBZS6e31Xu0LpM= =kXHl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 23:17 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
- because the lm_sensors file is not visible. Make it 'visible' to SUSE and the sound starts.
That may be because the script/program responsible does not run, ie, exits, if it doesn't find the configuration file.
I feel that we are starting to lose the plot here. I posted my original message for the simple reason that by having the lm_sensors file created a high-pitched noise started up when I booted into SUSE. It took a while to locate the reason for this noise so I posted the message in case someone else, at some future time, strikes the same problem and wonders what may be the sudden cause of the noise. Joe Morris responded with the statement that nothing happens with lm_sensors until one copies the startup script from /usr/share/doc/packages/sensors/prog/init to /etc/init.d and then enables the script; he asked if I did this and I answered NO. By accepting that this script had to be activated before lm_sensors started to actually work, I suggested that my (original) message was more relevant than I initially thought because here was a control file causing noise when the script which used it wasn't even activated (and that when this file was removed the noise stopped). While I still don't really know how lm_sensors work or what makes it work, after reading quickly the wording of the lm_sensors file created by /usr/sbin/sensors-detect command I now think that in SUSE 10.1 the sensors start working when the file lm_sensors exists in /etc/sysconfig - and this goes contrary to what Joe suggested. If this is the case, that the sensors app. runs when lm_sensors is present in /etc/sysconfig, then it makes perfect sense why the noise stops when I rename the lm_sensors file - and what you state above is correct. But we got to this point after tossing some ideas around :-) . However, I hope that my original posting, about what may be causing the sudden appearance of a high-pitched noise when fooling around with lm_sensors, comes in handy to someone in the future. The only thing we haven't resolved - but does it matter? - is what exactly in the parameters created by sensors-detect is causing the noise to be generated? :-) Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1
Basil Chupin wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 23:17 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
- because the lm_sensors file is not visible. Make it 'visible' to SUSE and the sound starts.
That may be because the script/program responsible does not run, ie, exits, if it doesn't find the configuration file.
I feel that we are starting to lose the plot here.
I posted my original message for the simple reason that by having the lm_sensors file created a high-pitched noise started up when I booted into SUSE. It took a while to locate the reason for this noise so I posted the message in case someone else, at some future time, strikes the same problem and wonders what may be the sudden cause of the noise.
Joe Morris responded with the statement that nothing happens with lm_sensors until one copies the startup script from /usr/share/doc/packages/sensors/prog/init to /etc/init.d and then enables the script; he asked if I did this and I answered NO.
By accepting that this script had to be activated before lm_sensors started to actually work, I suggested that my (original) message was more relevant than I initially thought because here was a control file causing noise when the script which used it wasn't even activated (and that when this file was removed the noise stopped).
While I still don't really know how lm_sensors work or what makes it work, after reading quickly the wording of the lm_sensors file created by /usr/sbin/sensors-detect command I now think that in SUSE 10.1 the sensors start working when the file lm_sensors exists in /etc/sysconfig - and this goes contrary to what Joe suggested.
If this is the case, that the sensors app. runs when lm_sensors is present in /etc/sysconfig, then it makes perfect sense why the noise stops when I rename the lm_sensors file - and what you state above is correct.
But we got to this point after tossing some ideas around :-) . However, I hope that my original posting, about what may be causing the sudden appearance of a high-pitched noise when fooling around with lm_sensors, comes in handy to someone in the future. The only thing we haven't resolved - but does it matter? - is what exactly in the parameters created by sensors-detect is causing the noise to be generated? :-)
Cheers.
I very happy to see Basil refocus this discussion on his original issue. For one, I am quite interested in learning something of value from this discussion and I am having trouble wading through all the words for the meat. Sorry! My understand of lm_sensors (which could easily be very wrong) is that it reads out from various registers on the MBO values and then displays them for us. I was always under the impression that it is read only. How can a read only program cause a change that sets off Basil's alarm? Someone smart please explain that? In addition, Steve Boddy in a post to this thread said: This may sound like an silly question, but is it possible it's an alarm? I've always found the lm_sensors stuff a bit hit and miss for detecting and setting things properly, like putting odd values in for alarm conditions. Not understanding the detail of how it works, it may be seeing something it doesn't like and generating an audible alarm. w83697hf-isa-0290 Adapter: ISA adapter VCore: +1.66 V (min = +1.71 V, max = +1.89 V) ALARM +3.3V: +1.49 V (min = +3.14 V, max = +3.47 V) ALARM +5V: +4.87 V (min = +4.76 V, max = +5.24 V) +12V: +12.04 V (min = +10.82 V, max = +13.19 V) -12V: +1.54 V (min = -13.18 V, max = -10.80 V) ALARM -5V: +0.13 V (min = -5.25 V, max = -4.75 V) ALARM V5SB: +5.46 V (min = +4.76 V, max = +5.24 V) ALARM VBat: +3.15 V (min = +2.40 V, max = +3.60 V) fan1: 2766 RPM (min = 84375 RPM, div = 8) ALARM fan2: 0 RPM (min = 1739 RPM, div = 8) ALARM temp1: +38 C (high = +34 C, hyst = -92 C) sensor = thermistor ALARM temp2: +46.5 C (high = +100 C, hyst = +95 C) sensor = thermistor alarms: beep_enable: Sound alarm enabled As you can see, after a quick detect and init, I've got crazy values in some fields, and alarms up the kazoo. Note also the beep_enable at the end. I guess if that was wired up properly I'd be being annoyed right now by a high pitched noise ;-) I also have these alarms from the voltages being out of range from the norm. However, it is clear to me, (maybe I am stupid) that these voltages can't be incorrect as the BIOS looks fine and the machine works perfectly. Have any of you found what the right method to edit these files for accuracy? I suppose i could get the MBO manuals out and try to find the proper numbers from the manufacture. Seems a bit arcane though. Again, my goal would be to learn and document more about the use of lm_sensors from as many smart people as I can for current and future reference. Hopefully no one reacts negatively to this, I just want to get smarter if possible. And yes, I have done a lot reading and note taking from the man pages and other DOC. Cheers, Bob
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 09:33 -0700, Robert Lewis wrote:
My understand of lm_sensors (which could easily be very wrong) is that it reads out from various registers on the MBO values and then displays them for us. I was always under the impression that it is read only. How can a read only program cause a change that sets off Basil's alarm? Someone smart please explain that?
It is not "read only". See the code: FANCONFIG=/etc/fancontrol # Start fan control, if configured if test -s "$FANCONFIG" -a -x "$PFAN" ; then echo -n ", starting fan control: " /sbin/startproc -q "$PFAN" rc_status else echo -n ": " fi It does control the fan. Perhaps Basil just have got to rename the file "/etc/fancontrol", or edit it conveniently. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFA0hGtTMYHG2NR9URAgdCAJsGYuecOPk96Ll/w4akYwJLorpQBQCfTRGG HPfrRdToAnWhroXFsg5BINA= =+zBz -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2006-09-10 at 01:15 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
That may be because the script/program responsible does not run, ie, exits, if it doesn't find the configuration file.
I feel that we are starting to lose the plot here.
I posted my original message for the simple reason that by having the lm_sensors file created a high-pitched noise started up when I booted into SUSE. It took a while to locate the reason for this noise so I posted the message in case someone else, at some future time, strikes the same problem and wonders what may be the sudden cause of the noise.
Joe Morris responded with the statement that nothing happens with lm_sensors until one copies the startup script from /usr/share/doc/packages/sensors/prog/init to /etc/init.d and then enables the script; he asked if I did this and I answered NO.
This is not really true. I have a "/etc/init.d/lm_sensors" file, which was installed automatically by yast; just ask rpm: nimrodel:~ # rpm -q -f /etc/init.d/lm_sensors sensors-2.10.0-10 It is a system file. See the code: CONFIG=/etc/sysconfig/lm_sensors ... start() { echo -n "Starting up sensors" unset ${!MODULE_*} test -r "$CONFIG" && . "$CONFIG" Now, what does that "test" line? `-r FILE' True if FILE exists and read permission is granted. But I'm unsure of what does the part to the right of &&. I think it runs the config file, setting up variables, if it exists. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFA0mHtTMYHG2NR9URAmu4AJ9cI0g65CBBXq4n4KTOG3uyth7SVwCeMeyT oGYxMC/lXwSYH/OJToqBiHk= =FO3k -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 9/9/06 7:08 PM, "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
start() { echo -n "Starting up sensors" unset ${!MODULE_*} test -r "$CONFIG" && . "$CONFIG"
Now, what does that "test" line?
`-r FILE' True if FILE exists and read permission is granted.
But I'm unsure of what does the part to the right of &&. I think it runs the config file, setting up variables, if it exists.
In English, "test for the file to exist and be readable, and if it is, then read in the variable assignments contained therein."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-09-09 at 22:12 -0400, Ian Marlier wrote:
In English, "test for the file to exist and be readable, and if it is, then read in the variable assignments contained therein."
Noted, thanks. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFA+9OtTMYHG2NR9URAtQRAJ437oUUbh7NLQbWMW+ZeLs4l/4EoACbBfgy d5FySAtCHdlCZbOaKDWoOc4= =eZAO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Saturday 09 September 2006 07:08, Basil Chupin wrote:
For the first time since starting to use Linux, I decided that I will go really high tech and start using lm_sensors on SUSE 10.1.
I used the /usr/sbin/sensors- detect command and let it find them and then "do its thing" to create the lm_sensors configuration file. Because it was time for me to go biddie-byes I didn't reboot but shut the system down and went to bed.
This morning I booted-up the system and suddenly I was hit by a very high pitched sound coming from the computer. Ear-splitting it was :-( and to me this is a no-no 'cause I suffer from tinnitus.
Took a while to pinpoint the sound as coming from the rheostat on the (front) panel which controls the speed of the Gigabyte CPU heatsink fan.
There was not a murmur when I booted into the "other" OS so it was something in SUSE. Finally[0] dawned on me that the only thing that changed between "no noise" and "hight-pitched noise" was the creation of the lm_sensors file in /etc/sysconfig. I renamed lm_sensors file, rebooted and the sound vanished.
So, if you configure lm_sensors and suddenly find that there is a very high-pitched sound coming from the innards of your computer case then you now know what you can try and do to get rid of it.
[0] I have another rheostat on another (front) panel which controls the speed of the PSU and case fans which occasionally makes a similar noise if the speed of the case fans drops too low, and just gently tapping the control knob gets rid of the noise. My initial reaction to the above was that it was this that was causing the high-pitched sound.
This may sound like an silly question, but is it possible it's an alarm? I've always found the lm_sensors stuff a bit hit and miss for detecting and setting things properly, like putting odd values in for alarm conditions. Not understanding the detail of how it works, it may be seeing something it doesn't like and generating an audible alarm. w83697hf-isa-0290 Adapter: ISA adapter VCore: +1.66 V (min = +1.71 V, max = +1.89 V) ALARM +3.3V: +1.49 V (min = +3.14 V, max = +3.47 V) ALARM +5V: +4.87 V (min = +4.76 V, max = +5.24 V) +12V: +12.04 V (min = +10.82 V, max = +13.19 V) -12V: +1.54 V (min = -13.18 V, max = -10.80 V) ALARM -5V: +0.13 V (min = -5.25 V, max = -4.75 V) ALARM V5SB: +5.46 V (min = +4.76 V, max = +5.24 V) ALARM VBat: +3.15 V (min = +2.40 V, max = +3.60 V) fan1: 2766 RPM (min = 84375 RPM, div = 8) ALARM fan2: 0 RPM (min = 1739 RPM, div = 8) ALARM temp1: +38 C (high = +34 C, hyst = -92 C) sensor = thermistor ALARM temp2: +46.5 C (high = +100 C, hyst = +95 C) sensor = thermistor alarms: beep_enable: Sound alarm enabled As you can see, after a quick detect and init, I've got crazy values in some fields, and alarms up the kazoo. Note also the beep_enable at the end. I guess if that was wired up properly I'd be being annoyed right now by a high pitched noise ;-) -- Steve Boddy
Stephen Boddy wrote:
On Saturday 09 September 2006 07:08, Basil Chupin wrote:
For the first time since starting to use Linux, I decided that I will go really high tech and start using lm_sensors on SUSE 10.1.
I used the /usr/sbin/sensors- detect command and let it find them and then "do its thing" to create the lm_sensors configuration file. Because it was time for me to go biddie-byes I didn't reboot but shut the system down and went to bed.
This morning I booted-up the system and suddenly I was hit by a very high pitched sound coming from the computer. Ear-splitting it was :-( and to me this is a no-no 'cause I suffer from tinnitus.
Took a while to pinpoint the sound as coming from the rheostat on the (front) panel which controls the speed of the Gigabyte CPU heatsink fan.
There was not a murmur when I booted into the "other" OS so it was something in SUSE. Finally[0] dawned on me that the only thing that changed between "no noise" and "hight-pitched noise" was the creation of the lm_sensors file in /etc/sysconfig. I renamed lm_sensors file, rebooted and the sound vanished.
So, if you configure lm_sensors and suddenly find that there is a very high-pitched sound coming from the innards of your computer case then you now know what you can try and do to get rid of it.
[0] I have another rheostat on another (front) panel which controls the speed of the PSU and case fans which occasionally makes a similar noise if the speed of the case fans drops too low, and just gently tapping the control knob gets rid of the noise. My initial reaction to the above was that it was this that was causing the high-pitched sound.
This may sound like an silly question, but is it possible it's an alarm?
I've always found the lm_sensors stuff a bit hit and miss for detecting and setting things properly, like putting odd values in for alarm conditions.
Not understanding the detail of how it works, it may be seeing something it doesn't like and generating an audible alarm.
[pruned]
As you can see, after a quick detect and init, I've got crazy values in some fields, and alarms up the kazoo. Note also the beep_enable at the end. I guess if that was wired up properly I'd be being annoyed right now by a high pitched noise ;-)
Only problem with this is that lm_sensors application was not actually activated :-) . All I had in place was the lm_sensors file created by /usr/sbin/sensors-detect. Unless of course in SUSE 10.1 the lm_sensors are activated automatically once the lm_sensors file is created in /etc/sysconfig. Dunno. Actually..... I just had a look at the lm_sensors file and I think lm_sensors may be activated should the lm_sensors file exist in /etc/sysconfig which may go against what Joe Morris mentioned in an earlier message. But then I am stating this from a very cursory look at what is shown in lm_sensors file. BTW, here are the parameters which sensors-detect put into the lm_sensors file when it created it: # Generated by sensors-detect on Sat Sep 9 01:07:41 2006 MODULE_0=i2c-nforce2 MODULE_1=i2c-isa MODULE_2=eeprom MODULE_3=it87 Cheers. -- This computer is environment-friendly and is running on OpenSuSE 10.1
Basil Chupin wrote:
Only problem with this is that lm_sensors application was not actually activated :-) . All I had in place was the lm_sensors file created by /usr/sbin/sensors-detect. I realize I rebuilt the sensors package I am using, but it is not that different than the SuSE 10.1 default. The file /etc/sysconfig/lmsensors is just variables. I just checked the rpm, and I guess things have changed because there is a file listed /etc/init.d/lm_sensors. So out of the box it has the capability to get started, but according to the spec file, it doesn't start by installing the package.
Unless of course in SUSE 10.1 the lm_sensors are activated automatically once the lm_sensors file is created in /etc/sysconfig. Dunno. I don't think so, but IIRC sensors-detect loads some of the modules (all?) which would cause it to start working til it was stopped (which unloads the modules).
Actually..... I just had a look at the lm_sensors file and I think lm_sensors may be activated should the lm_sensors file exist in /etc/sysconfig which may go against what Joe Morris mentioned in an earlier message. But then I am stating this from a very cursory look at what is shown in lm_sensors file.
It is sourced from the startup script, so it would only work if the service had been started (i.e. via Runlevel Editor, etc.). Outside of that, it is only variables. It actively does nothing. BUT, sensors-detect may load the modules needed to work, I'm not sure, but it does not use or need /etc/sysconfig/lm_sensors.
BTW, here are the parameters which sensors-detect put into the lm_sensors file when it created it:
# Generated by sensors-detect on Sat Sep 9 01:07:41 2006 MODULE_0=i2c-nforce2 MODULE_1=i2c-isa MODULE_2=eeprom MODULE_3=it87 Similar to mine. MODULE_0=i2c-nforce2 MODULE_1=i2c-isa MODULE_2=eeprom MODULE_3=w83627hf
BTW, you should change the module modprobed in lines 38 and 45 in /etc/init.d/lm_sensors to i2c-dev, which was the reason I rebuilt the package I am using. -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871
Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:
BTW, you should change the module modprobed in lines 38 and 45 in /etc/init.d/lm_sensors to i2c-dev, which was the reason I rebuilt the package I am using.
Why? Is i2c-sensor obsolete? (I'm still using 10.0, if that matters.) Thanks in advance for an explanation, Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany
Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:
BTW, you should change the module modprobed in lines 38 and 45 in /etc/init.d/lm_sensors to i2c-dev, which was the reason I rebuilt the package I am using.
Why? Is i2c-sensor obsolete? (I'm still using 10.0, if that matters.) I'm not sure about 10.0, but when I checked the 10.1 kernel modules,
Joachim Schrod wrote: there was no i2c-sensor module. According to modinfo, i2c-dev will when modprobed also load i2c-core, which was why I figured i2c-dev was the right one to modprobe in the script. But, that was with the 10.1 kernel (and with the 2.6.17.13 kernel I am running now). You should check /lib/modules/<your kernel version>/kernel/drivers/i2c to see if it is there. -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871
participants (13)
-
Basil Chupin -
Carlos E. R. -
Ian Marlier -
James Knott -
Joachim Schrod -
Joe Morris (NTM) -
John Andersen -
Mike -
Patrick Shanahan -
Per Jessen -
Randall R Schulz -
Robert Lewis -
Stephen Boddy