2015-11-16 10:55 keltezéssel, Basil Chupin írta:

On 16/11/15 02:29, Albert Oszkó wrote:

...

Hi all,

As I mentioned a week or so ago, I installed Leap/KDE on Lenovo G505. I could hardly wait Leap, because I had to make too much compromise with 13.2, so I hoped things can only get better. Well, they did not. The installation went flawlessly, but then I tried to use the machine, and there were several severe problems. Not with the look of the desktop, it is mainly a matter of taste - but I admit it can also has an effect on usage. The nerve-cracking behavior of KWallet can somehow be tamed. But the continuous crashes of LibreOffice was showstopping. I uninstalled, the installed 5.0.3 - get the same crash. Looks like starting Writer, Calc, etc made the system log out. The common start menu of Libre worked, but the individual parts did not. Finally I reinstalled Leap. The Libre complained that somebody (that is me) from the previous installation edited something. So I deleted libreoffice from /home/.local. I removed my earlier persona, but did not remove crashes. So I considered giving a try to Linux Mint 17.2 with MATE. Could not install it. ( I disabled UEFI and Secure boot). Ubuntu 15.04 installed like a charm and upgraded to 15.10 - with kernel 4.2. I did not like it, could not import my client.ovpn file, and found ridiculous that it has no scanner support per se. So I installed Kubuntu 15.10 - and all things work. I got used to Suse - started with 9.1, and want to go back after changing this laptop. The reason I wrote this long text is that I am absolutely lost in the reasons of crashes. Nobody tells Libre5 crashes on Leap - neither on the libreoffice list. So I thought the mistake is on my side. And yet, *buntus with 4.2 kernel work. Do you have an idea what is wrong with this Leap install?

Please let me share a final thought in a different topic. I am eager what Suse guys think of the future of this distro. I mean Leap came out only in 64 bit version. I think there are thousands of elder 32 bit machines still working. The other day I met one not accepting even 13.2 with ext4 filesystems. They will look after another distro when they want some more recent system.

Best regards, Albert

The one theme which I can see running thru your post above is that the only distros which worked for you were those you installed from 'scratch'. While your opening statement that you installed Leap/KDE on Lenovo G505 does NOT indicate that it was installed as a new, clean install and I therefore come to the conclusion that you did a zypper dup to get Leap/KDE - but I may be wrong.

I, personally, NEVER, upgrade to a newer release by using zypper dup (well, I did once, many years ago but learnt to never do it again).

Talk again when you have installed Leap 42 as a new installation from a newly burnt ISO, OK?

BTW, LibreOffice works fine in Leap, and so does Wallet (which I at first hated the sight of but now see that it is of some use).

BC

Just like you, I made zypper dup a few years ago, with catastrophic result. Since then I always make a clean install from DVD, and lately from USB stick. Albert

On 16 November 2015 at 11:27, Daniel Bauer wrote:

Am 16.11.2015 um 10:55 schrieb Basil Chupin:

...

The one theme which I can see running thru your post above is that the only distros which worked for you were those you installed from 'scratch'. While your opening statement that you installed Leap/KDE on Lenovo G505 does NOT indicate that it was installed as a new, clean install and I therefore come to the conclusion that you did a zypper dup to get Leap/KDE - but I may be wrong.

I, personally, NEVER, upgrade to a newer release by using zypper dup (well, I did once, many years ago but learnt to never do it again).

Talk again when you have installed Leap 42 as a new installation from a newly burnt ISO, OK?

BTW, LibreOffice works fine in Leap, and so does Wallet (which I at first hated the sight of but now see that it is of some use).

I believe it is *essential* that an upgrade can be done without a new install.

Of course many are just playing with their computers, but at least some need it for work. To install all the programs again, finding all the settings and adjustments again... is a huge amount of time, and even after weeks or month suddenly seldom used things don't work, when you use them for the first time on the new install, and there you are on google again and again.

And if you take your old /home with you there are countless issues and "rare behaviours" because of settings that conflict with newer software and have not been adjusted, as an upgrade would/should do it.

In my case, additionally, as a reiserfs user (yes, it's old-times, but it works and it works great on fully encrypted systems) a new install is not possible, because there is no more option for reiserfs. And as seen on this and other lists, the new defaut file system is only for people who enjoy to spend their time repairing their unaccessible machines every once in a while.

If a distro cannot be upgraded safely to a new version, then this distro is simply out of the game for me.

I agree, Basil's opinion does not reflect the opinion of the openSUSE Project as a whole, nor the experience of thousands of users who have already used either the offline (from disk) or online (from zypper dup) methods of upgrading. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Bauer wrote: ...

I believe it is *essential* that an upgrade can be done without a new install.

...

And if you take your old /home with you there are countless issues and "rare behaviours" because of settings that conflict with newer software and have not been adjusted, as an upgrade would/should do it.

Upgrade never did anything to your /home. If you are lucky and each individual application has "upgrade mode" when it detects settings had been done under older version, it will attempt to upgrade settings. Otherwise new install is not different to upgrade in this case. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen composed on 2015-11-16 11:44 (UTC+0100):

Daniel Bauer wrote:

...

In my case, additionally, as a reiserfs user (yes, it's old-times, but it works and it works great on fully encrypted systems) a new install is not possible, because there is no more option for reiserfs.

You could still install on reisefs, it just takes a bit of manual intervention. Once the installation system is booted, you swap out to a console and create the reisefs filesystems you need. I guess you might need to do the encryption stuff too, dunno. Once that's done, you swap back to YaST and continue.

Or do as I do. I never even begin an installation until both partitioning is done as I wish, and filesystems have been created on the partitions to be used. This is simple for me, because all my systems are multiboot, but when I first use a new or wiped HD, I do the same, simply from a live media boot instead of a HD boot, as any non-multibooter could do. Another option is to prep a new HD via temporary installation in some other PC, so no live media boot needed.

...

And as seen on this and other lists, the new defaut file system is only for people who enjoy to spend their time repairing their unaccessible machines every once in a while.

So use ext4 instead.

I have many TW and Leap installations. All are on EXT3 or EXT4. Some defaults I agree with and use, others I don't. The Linux world provides options not found elsewhere. Feel free to explore and even enjoy them. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/16/2015 04:46 AM, Richard Brown wrote:

One thing to consider when moving away from the default btrfs filesystem for / is that you lose automatic snapshotting with snapper, and boot to snapshot in Grub

These two features are real life savers.

Some how most of us survived just fine without those "life-savers" for decades. After the SECOND time I lost significant amounts of data on BTRFS, I did a fresh install and abandoned it. It will stay abandoned for at lease several releases, probably a minimum of a couple years. Luckily I had backup, because as I mentioned some of us know that relying on snapshots on the same disk is just asking for trouble. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Dne Po 16. listopadu 2015 11:27:59, Daniel Bauer napsal(a):

Am 16.11.2015 um 10:55 schrieb Basil Chupin:

...

The one theme which I can see running thru your post above is that the only distros which worked for you were those you installed from 'scratch'. While your opening statement that you installed Leap/KDE on Lenovo G505 does NOT indicate that it was installed as a new, clean install and I therefore come to the conclusion that you did a zypper dup to get Leap/KDE - but I may be wrong.

I, personally, NEVER, upgrade to a newer release by using zypper dup (well, I did once, many years ago but learnt to never do it again).

Talk again when you have installed Leap 42 as a new installation from a newly burnt ISO, OK?

BTW, LibreOffice works fine in Leap, and so does Wallet (which I at first hated the sight of but now see that it is of some use).

I believe it is *essential* that an upgrade can be done without a new install.

Of course many are just playing with their computers, but at least some need it for work. To install all the programs again, finding all the settings and adjustments again... is a huge amount of time, and even after weeks or month suddenly seldom used things don't work, when you use them for the first time on the new install, and there you are on google again and again.

And if you take your old /home with you there are countless issues and "rare behaviours" because of settings that conflict with newer software and have not been adjusted, as an upgrade would/should do it.

In my case, additionally, as a reiserfs user (yes, it's old-times, but it works and it works great on fully encrypted systems) a new install is not possible, because there is no more option for reiserfs. And as seen on this and other lists, the new defaut file system is only for people who enjoy to spend their time repairing their unaccessible machines every once in a while.

If a distro cannot be upgraded safely to a new version, then this distro is simply out of the game for me.

I haven't upgraded into Leap 42.1 yet, but I use fully encrypted system with Ext4 on my primary machine and in this settings I had bat experiences with DVD upgrade. For upgrade of openSUSE I use only zypper dup and I never had really big issue with it. I'm just wondering that openSUSE doesn't notify me about new version available... -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/

On 11/16/2015 04:15 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

nlike other distros, openSUSE doesn't rush to induce users to fix what ain't broke. Instead, it notifies when support of a release is ending,

You make a distinction without a difference. There is no real reason to move lock-step from release to release when nothing is broken, nothing is compromised. This is why there are such things as rolling releases. Yet this early end-of-maintenance is, and always has been a significant deterrent. I'm running 13.2, and its one of the best releases in a long long time. Everything works - once I abandoned BTRFS. I will rue the day when it drops off of maintenance, and I am hoping that either Tumbleweed or Leap will have caught up to it by then. If not, and both Leap and Tumbleweed remain back level, I'll probably install all source, and stay on 13.2, patching any security issues for a while. I think its long past time Opensuse stopped running Tumbleweed out of somebody's spare time and declare it official and promise to keep it current. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/16/2015 01:22 PM, Richard Brown wrote:

On 16 November 2015 at 22:18, John Andersen wrote:

...

I think its long past time Opensuse stopped running Tumbleweed out of somebody's spare time and declare it official and promise to keep it current.

We did that over a year ago...

And yet, upthread it was mentioned that the maintainer was spending ALL of his time lately working on Leap. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

John Andersen wrote:

On 11/16/2015 01:22 PM, Richard Brown wrote:

...

On 16 November 2015 at 22:18, John Andersen wrote:

...

I think its long past time Opensuse stopped running Tumbleweed out of somebody's spare time and declare it official and promise to keep it current.

We did that over a year ago...

And yet, upthread it was mentioned that the maintainer was spending ALL of his time lately working on Leap.

John, you're talking about Evergreen. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.2°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin wrote:

In a post in Factory I think I already raised this question about Tumbleweed and asking when it is going to come out of the closet and become a legit openSUSE piece of software. But I don't remember ever getting a response about it.

Judging by the opensuse website, we have two distros: Leap and Tumbleweed, both very legit, both for different audiences.

I also asked - some time ago actually - why there are ever only 'Releases' of TW which are 4.3GB big but there are never, for examples, patches to be applied using 'zypper patch'. Must be a heck of waste of computer resources producing 4.3GB DVDs almost every day.

That makes little or no sense. (I don't use TW myself). To upgrade a TW install, I think you simply have to run "zypper up". "zypper patch" is for applying security updates, I suspect there simply aren't any for TW. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 16/11/2015 11:27, Daniel Bauer a écrit :

If a distro cannot be upgraded safely to a new version, then this distro is simply out of the game for me.

almost no system can upgrade without any tricking. It's even impossible to change filesystem (for example). think it's not only upgrading from say 13.2 to 42.1, if you always upgrade, you can still have the 9.0 setup... I did sometime (it mostly works anyway) and learned of new features only reading the lists... A new system is that, new. An upgraded system... if it works, why upgrade? How many files do you keep that are no more relevant and may be a source of problem? In fact I would like to have very detailed upgrade instructions, with a description of all what is new and have to be removed/added, but it's very hard to write and I don't see any such doc jdd -- When will a Label sign her!!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=94&v=BeMk3WRh8QI -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

hi,

Am 15.11.2015 um 16:29 schrieb Albert Oszkó:

...

The reason I wrote this long text is that I am absolutely lost in the reasons of crashes. Nobody tells Libre5 crashes on Leap - neither on the libreoffice list. So I thought the mistake is on my side. And yet, *buntus with 4.2 kernel work. Do you have an idea what is wrong with this Leap install?

try to install libreoffice from the suitable repo from http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/LibreOffice:/5.0/ or http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/LibreOffice:/Factory/

i use LibreOffice:/Factory and it works great. Yesterday evening I gave another try to Leap. Tried Libre 5.0.3 and factory also. It keeps crashing. Our university provides us with EuroOffice, which is a fork of Libre/OpenOffice. It also crashes. I also

2015-11-16 12:02 keltezéssel, Rainer Klier írta: tried Calligra and it worked fine. Sometimes I get the message : Could not start ksmserver Check installation. It appears in a little window with a graphic style I last seen in a Sunview environment on SunOS 4.1.3 (ancient Solaris). The window has only an "okay" button. Pressing it result in logout or reboot. Albert

2015-11-17 10:07 keltezéssel, Marcus Meissner írta:

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 10:04:12AM +0100, Albert, Oszkó wrote:

...

2015-11-16 12:02 keltezéssel, Rainer Klier írta:

...

hi,

Am 15.11.2015 um 16:29 schrieb Albert Oszkó:

...

The reason I wrote this long text is that I am absolutely lost in the reasons of crashes. Nobody tells Libre5 crashes on Leap - neither on the libreoffice list. So I thought the mistake is on my side. And yet, *buntus with 4.2 kernel work. Do you have an idea what is wrong with this Leap install? try to install libreoffice from the suitable repo from http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/LibreOffice:/5.0/ or http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/LibreOffice:/Factory/

i use LibreOffice:/Factory and it works great. Yesterday evening I gave another try to Leap. Tried Libre 5.0.3 and factory also. It keeps crashing. Our university provides us with EuroOffice, which is a fork of Libre/OpenOffice. It also crashes. I also tried Calligra and it worked fine. Sometimes I get the message : Could not start ksmserver Check installation. It appears in a little window with a graphic style I last seen in a Sunview environment on SunOS 4.1.3 (ancient Solaris). The window has only an "okay" button. Pressing it result in logout or reboot. We are receiving multiple reports ... Some rumors make it problem of the graphics driver, potentially Intel?

Can the folks that have plasma crashes report on their graphics card?

Ciao, Marcus As far as I know i have a Radeon HD 8330 graphics card, and also another one ( a dedicated and a built in GPU), which is also Radeon. The CPU is also AMD, an A4-5000 chip. I do not fully understand what switchable graphics means, but that was sold with the laptop.

Albert

2015-11-17 10:48 keltezéssel, Uli Geisler írta:

Am Dienstag, den 17.11.2015, 10:07 +0100 schrieb Marcus Meissner:

...

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 10:04:12AM +0100, Albert, Oszkó wrote:

...

2015-11-16 12:02 keltezéssel, Rainer Klier írta:

...

hi,

Am 15.11.2015 um 16:29 schrieb Albert Oszkó:

...

The reason I wrote this long text is that I am absolutely lost in the reasons of crashes. Nobody tells Libre5 crashes on Leap - neither on the libreoffice list. So I thought the mistake is on my side. And yet, *buntus with 4.2 kernel work. Do you have an idea what is wrong with this Leap install? try to install libreoffice from the suitable repo from http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/LibreOffice:/5.0/ or http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/LibreOffice:/Factory/

i use LibreOffice:/Factory and it works great. Yesterday evening I gave another try to Leap. Tried Libre 5.0.3 and factory also. It keeps crashing. Our university provides us with EuroOffice, which is a fork of Libre/OpenOffice. It also crashes. I also tried Calligra and it worked fine. Sometimes I get the message : Could not start ksmserver Check installation. It appears in a little window with a graphic style I last seen in a Sunview environment on SunOS 4.1.3 (ancient Solaris). The window has only an "okay" button. Pressing it result in logout or reboot. We are receiving multiple reports ... Some rumors make it problem of the graphics driver, potentially Intel?

Can the folks that have plasma crashes report on their graphics card? Yes, I can:

AMD A6-3410MX APU with Radeon HD Graphics x 4, Gallium 0.4 on AMD SUMO (DRM 2.42.0, LLVM 3.7.0)

Leap 42.1, upgraded from 13.2.

No problems with Gnome or i3

Greetings Uli

...

Ciao, Marcus I did not try gnome, only xfce. It did not help.

2015-11-17 17:56 keltezéssel, Gustav Degreef írta:

On 11/17/2015 10:07 AM, Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

We are receiving multiple reports ... Some rumors make it problem of the graphics driver, potentially Intel?

Can the folks that have plasma crashes report on their graphics card?

Ciao, Marcus

I have an Intel Broadwell-U chip (it is an optimus laptop and has a secondary nvidia card) in this HP envy 17" laptop. The installer (Leap 42.1 and also Leap beta) would not finish booting without the "nomodeset" parameter. The fully installed system only boots with "nomodeset", I have not yet tried to modify the /etc/X11/xorgconf.d/50-device file as yet. I have not yet fully configured that test system (on a separate partition of this same laptop. Is the info specific enough? Gustav

In the meantime I set the "nomodeset" parameter and voila: Libre does not crash! Now I am eager whether it is automatically set in *buntus? How could they work without that setting? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org