James Harr wrote:

The Delux will have more stuff....

----- Original Message ----- From: "Des Aubery" To: Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 12:32 PM Subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

...

Hi all,

What will be the difference between the new SuSE release 7 - Standard & Deluxe versions?

James, I'm sure you are correct - thought I don't know on what source you base your assertion. One slight problems with your statement: What exactly do you mean by "stuff". Can we measure the amount of "stuff"? I guess we could count bites, but an empty hard drive contains as many bites as a full hard drive, so we really can't say, for example, there will be more data on the CDs. We could burn the same number of CDs with all ones and argue that we have as much data per CD as the SuSE distribution. You may attempt to insist that, by "stuff" you intend us to understand 'meaningful data'. This, however begs the question of meaning. And if we cannot define what we mean by meaning then we certainly cannot insist that the SuSE 7 Delux will contain more 'meaningful' data. I guess what I'm getting at is that your answer seems to lack a certain logical and/or conceptual underpinning we would expect if we were to gain value out of reading it. Not to say there is not worth in what you have said, I just fail to find anything in your statement that I could use to decide which distribution I should get. Then again, I trust the SuSE folks, so I figure I'll get the Delux...It probably come with more stuff. Steve -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

TRBishop wrote:

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- This cracked me up. Steve, you are very clever with "stuff and nonsense". Gotta love this list!

TRBishop tb64710@ltec.net Registered Linux User #12043

I grew up, and live, in the Washington DC area. Profound sounding gibberish is this city's stock and trade. Steve -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

At 09:19 PM 7/29/00 -0500, Timothy R. Butler wrote:

I'm curious, will SuSE standard still cost $29 at stores and still have 1,600 apps - or is this a RedHat like move to make the distro have a higher price tag. :-( That was something I always appreciated SuSE for...

ya, me too. Thats why I never buy something like Red Hat Standard edition, because actually redhat standard edition has almost no difference with the GPL one, except yes, you have the registration code, and some think books. I buy the Red hat Deluxe Version instead. Now if SuSE makes the difference of the price between the personal and proffesional, and also the packages in personal CD is very very less, I think people will prefer to buy the GPL one, or if they have money, they will try to buy the proffesional one. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

At 09:19 PM 7/29/00 -0500, Timothy R. Butler wrote:

...

I'm curious, will SuSE standard still cost $29 at stores and still have 1,600 apps - or is this a RedHat like move to make the distro have a higher price tag. :-( That was something I always appreciated SuSE for...

ya, me too. Thats why I never buy something like Red Hat Standard edition, because actually redhat standard edition has almost no difference with the GPL one, except yes, you have the registration code, and some think books. I buy

Hi all, I am afraid that SuSE's silence is deafening on this matter. I would have thought that jumping on the RH bandwagon, i.e. selling a "come and get me" distro on 1 CD for a few $ and charging a lot more for the multi CD "Professional Edition" would be a detrimental move. We have all seen what has happened to M$. I for one buy SuSE for the great selection of "free" packages. I think that this is one of the strong points of the distro. OK we can do without the manual if it was still on a CD in some readable format as the cover of the CD's is nearly enough to get you up and running. The printing costs of the manual alone must be quite high. Regards, Keith Gibbons, Ireland. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irwan Hadi" To: ; "SuSE Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 3:32 AM Subject: RE: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe the

Red hat Deluxe Version instead.

Now if SuSE makes the difference of the price between the personal and proffesional, and also the packages in personal CD is very very less, I think people will prefer to buy the GPL one, or if they have money, they will try to buy the proffesional one.

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At 01:09 PM 7/29/00 +0200, Stefan Troeger wrote:

According to a SuSE add in c't, there will be two versions, Personal and Professional. The first one has 3 CDs, 3 newbie-compatible handbooks (installation, configuration, applications) and 60 days of installation support. The Professional version comes with 6 CDs or 1 DVD, 4 manuals and 90 days of installation support. Personal'll cost 89 DM, Professional 129 DM, the update SuSE Linux --> Professional 79 DM.

it seems that many linux distributions now are following redhat method in developing it's distribution, that is making separate linux distributions, either standard, deluxe, professional, or personal, professional, or desktop and server ;) Anyway, is there anyone knows that caldera open linux is giving away it's caldera open linux e server 2.3 ($90 valued) http://www.calderasystems.com/eserver/, simply by filling up this questionaire http://www.calderasystems.com/partners/contest/ Even if you haven't implemented any business solution with Linux, or just a student, a employee, or even retired, as long as your submission is in english and also logical, you will get the e server boxed version. I wonder, when will SuSE have the same promotion ? I predict I will be one of the first persons filled up the questionaire then ;) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

"Timothy R. Butler" wrote:

It's disappointing to see the distro going like this, however, price is my main concern, so I must ask... How do those German prices compare to that of previous versions? My main fear is that even if they are the same, retailers might start charging more for the Professional just so they can charge over $20 for the Personal (right now, what will become the Pro edition costs $29 at most retailers I know of).

I sure hope it doesn't become like Caldera and RedHat where the version you want costs as much as Windows (even Microsoft charges only $20 for minor updates). Doesn't make sense paying too much for a free operating system...

At least for the German version, if you buy the upgrade edition (the only difference to the Prof. Edition: 3 handbooks instead of 4, the thick one you already have is not included), you pay _less_ than now for a regular 6.4. For this, you get 3 handbooks (the big one missing), and much more support, and 6CDs and 1 DVD (the DVD has the same contents as the CDs, but if you've a DVD drive you don't have to change CDs all the time, so far there was a different package "DVD edition"). All I can see now that it's announced (I didn't know what it would be myself, because I didn't care too much, not my business here at SuSE) is that at least the Germans get more for less. Only if they buy the Prof.Edition instead of the upgrade do they pay more! -- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Hi, On Sat, 29 Jul 2000, Stefan Troeger wrote:

According to a SuSE add in c't, there will be two versions, Personal and Professional. The first one has 3 CDs, 3 newbie-compatible handbooks (installation, configuration, applications) and 60 days of installation support. The Professional version comes with 6 CDs or 1 DVD, 4 manuals and 90 days of installation support. Personal'll cost 89 DM, Professional 129 DM, the update SuSE Linux --> Professional 79

A small correction: the Professional Version comes with 6 CDs _and_ the DVD. Bye, LenZ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lenz Grimmer SuSE GmbH mailto:grimmer@suse.de Schanzaeckerstr. 10 http://www.suse.de/~grimmer/ 90443 Nuernberg, Germany With foxes we must play the fox. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

...

According to a SuSE add in c't, there will be two versions, Personal and Professional. The first one has 3 CDs, 3 newbie-compatible handbooks (installation, configuration, applications) and 60 days of installation support. The Professional version comes with 6 CDs or 1 DVD, 4 manuals and 90 days of installation support. Personal'll cost 89 DM, Professional 129 DM, the update SuSE Linux --> Professional 79

A small correction: the Professional Version comes with 6 CDs _and_ the DVD.

What's going on the DVD, and why? Must be something really big or another CD would suffice. <CYNICAL> Or perhaps SuSE is looking to take advantage of the fact that most people can't yet copy DVDs and will therefore buy the packaged set instead of copying a friend's CDs? </CYNICAL> -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Hi, On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Derek Fountain wrote:

...

A small correction: the Professional Version comes with 6 CDs _and_ the DVD.

What's going on the DVD, and why? Must be something really big or another CD would suffice.

The DVD contains some more commercial packages that simply did not fit on the 6 CDs.

<CYNICAL> Or perhaps SuSE is looking to take advantage of the fact that most people can't yet copy DVDs and will therefore buy the packaged set instead of copying a friend's CDs? </CYNICAL>

No, not at all. Bye, LenZ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lenz Grimmer SuSE GmbH mailto:grimmer@suse.de Schanzaeckerstr. 10 http://www.suse.de/~grimmer/ 90443 Nuernberg, Germany You tell 'em Envelope, you're well posted. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

The timing does seem odd, to the point of silly. The press release says the new distro will be available at the end of August. Hmmm. That's one week before KDE2 is due for release. The 2.4 kernel will probably be ready a month or two later. Does this mean the next version, a "minor" upgrade to 7.1, will contain a completely new kernel, with new user space tools, plus a whole new desktop? I guess SuSE know what they're doing, but it doesn't make much sense to me...

For myself, I'm wondering why I should bother, this close to the release of the 2.4 kernel. When that gets released, there's sure to be a fresh round of updates from virtually everybody, including SuSE.

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At 11:42 PM 8/1/00 +1000, Don Hansford wrote:

<snipped for the bandwidth concious> I personally buy every new distro, with manuals, for one other reason; If someone shows a keen interest in trying Linux, I can give them a full distro release, with manual, to try out. We have had much more success with this method, than with the poor beggars whose first intro is a cut-down version of RH on a magazine CD.

Me myself also like the way you do, that is use the boxed version and not the GPL one, but the problem is sometimes the boxed version is too expensive that insists me to think twice. (until now I already have Suse 6.4, Redhat Deluxe 6.1, Corel Deluxe, Debian 2.1, Turbo Linux for workstation, caldera open linux e server, all boxed version). -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

...

The timing does seem odd, to the point of silly. The press release says the new distro will be available at the end of August. Hmmm. That's one week before KDE2 is due for release.

I am sorry, but do you expect us to put it on the CDs without any previous testing and integration?

Like you did with XFree4.0? Actually no, my point was that you've made a jump to 7.0 which seems too early to me. From what I've read this one should be 6.5; the next one, with the new kernel and new desktop should be 7.0.

Well, this versioning scheme was made up, when having KDE2 and a 2.4 kernel still looked like a realistic plan. But we cannot do much about the delay of KDE2 or the kernel and delaying our release for an unknown amount of time is not an option. However, I still think that the new features (e.g. XFree86 4.0) and mainly the split of the product validate the jump to 7.0, even though the changes are not as impressive as everybody hoped.

Well, I guess that answers my question, although I'd point out that KDE2 hasn't been delayed at all yet. They've hit every milestone just about spot on. I have to bow to your knowledge about how much effort goes into making up versioning schemes, but I'm still rather cynical about it. Renaming to 7.0 just seems like a marketing ploy to make this look like a worthwhile upgrade. I see Redhat have done the same. Perhaps it's all to catch up with Mandrake, now at v7.1? It'll be a sad day for Linux when the distributors start trying to pull these sorts of tricks on their customers just to sell pointless upgrades. P.S. On a slightly different note, can we assume that from your quote above that 7.0 will have XFree4.0 as its default window manager? -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Sorry but having read this thread I too feel I must put in my 2d worth. My first linux was suse 6.2 last year. Since then I have come a long way. The productivity (not to mention the enjoyment) that i have had out of SUSE for a meagre sum has been huge. 6.2 cost me less than a single pc game for the kids. It would be great value still if I brought every new version, esp when compared to what I might have had to shell out for 3 pc running win. Stop wingeing and enjoy it. francesco On Wed, 02 Aug 2000, you wrote:

Hi,

On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Derek Fountain wrote:

...

...

I am sorry, but do you expect us to put it on the CDs without any previous testing and integration?

Like you did with XFree4.0?

Hmm, 4.0 is out for quite a while already.

...

Actually no, my point was that you've made a jump to 7.0 which seems too early to me. From what I've read this one should be 6.5; the next one, with the new kernel and new desktop should be 7.0.

Personally, I agree - but as I mentioned, this scheme was made up at a time where the situation looked different. But hey, it's just a number :)

...

Well, I guess that answers my question, although I'd point out that KDE2 hasn't been delayed at all yet. They've hit every milestone just about spot on.

OK, then I will just take the kernel as an example for timing :)

...

I have to bow to your knowledge about how much effort goes into making up versioning schemes, but I'm still rather cynical about it. Renaming to 7.0 just seems like a marketing ploy to make this look like a worthwhile upgrade. I see Redhat have done the same. Perhaps it's all to catch up with Mandrake, now at v7.1? It'll be a sad day for Linux when the distributors start trying to pull these sorts of tricks on their customers just to sell pointless upgrades.

Fully agreed.

...

P.S. On a slightly different note, can we assume that from your quote above that 7.0 will have XFree4.0 as its default window manager?

YaST2 will check, if your card is supported by XFree86 4.0 and will fall back to 3.3.6 if necessary.

Bye, LenZ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lenz Grimmer SuSE GmbH mailto:grimmer@suse.de Schanzaeckerstr. 10 http://www.suse.de/~grimmer/ 90443 Nuernberg, Germany You tell 'em Envelope, you're well posted.

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Tim Hanson wrote:

Exactly. The biggest advantage for me is bang for the buck, as well as the convenience of periodically getting latest and greatest without searching all over the web for it.

I agree completely. Three years ago, I had heard of this thing called "Linux". (Only real geeks need apply!). Two years ago, I started using FreeBSD, as an experiment, on a spare system. After much frustration (caused more by my lack of knowledge, than anything else), I tried (at the suggestion of a friend), SuSE 6.2. I subsequently bought 6.3, and 6.4, and am now eagerly awaiting 7.0. In that time, I have also purchased around 20 SuSE packs for others. I have helped people set up RH, Mandrake and Debian. When this happens, I can't wait to get back home to a distro that seems to revolve around the needs of the end-user, not the needs of the Company. I, for one, WILL purchase the next version of SuSE. I will also NOT quibble about the price (as long as it stays reasonable) for a matched set of apps and libraries, that someone (read SuSE) has taken the time to test for me. Since I use Linux for all my assignments at home (I'm a teacher) and the Institute I work at uses MS, I don't need or want, the hassles of trying to make a patched together system work. I could d/l everything I need from the 'Net, but I would waste so much time getting matching libraries, that I far prefer to buy an "out-of-the-box" solution. YMMV <End include.rant> -- This Email is 100% Virus Free! How do I know? Because no Microsoft products were used to generate it! Regards Don Hansford ECKYTECH COMPUTING SuSE Linux 6.4 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Derek Fountain wrote:

...

...

The timing does seem odd, to the point of silly. The press release says the new distro will be available at the end of August. Hmmm. That's one week before KDE2 is due for release.

I am sorry, but do you expect us to put it on the CDs without any previous testing and integration?

Like you did with XFree4.0?

I don't remember any SuSE Linux where XF86 4.0 was the default so far. It was always version 3.3.6. Of course we also deliver the latest beta of important packages, like now KDE2.

Actually no, my point was that you've made a jump to 7.0 which seems too early to me. From what I've read this one

Yes, it is. We expected KDE2 and 2.4 to be out. However, we cannot reprint everything. Software is easy, but boxed products and books need a lot of preparation. Plus, for us it is a big move.

should be 6.5; the next one, with the new kernel and new desktop should be 7.0.

...

Well, this versioning scheme was made up, when having KDE2 and a 2.4 kernel still looked like a realistic plan. But we cannot do much about the delay of KDE2 or the kernel and delaying our release for an unknown amount of time is not an option. However, I still think that the new features (e.g. XFree86 4.0) and mainly the split of the product validate the jump to 7.0, even though the changes are not as impressive as everybody hoped.

Well, I guess that answers my question, although I'd point out that KDE2 hasn't been delayed at all yet. They've hit every milestone just about spot on.

I have to bow to your knowledge about how much effort goes into making up versioning schemes, but I'm still rather cynical about it. Renaming to 7.0 just seems like a marketing ploy to make this look like a worthwhile upgrade. I see Redhat have done the same. Perhaps it's all to catch up with Mandrake, now at v7.1? It'll be a sad day for Linux when the distributors start trying to pull these sorts of tricks on their customers just to sell pointless upgrades.

Why do you care about the d... version numbers at all??? I don't.

P.S. On a slightly different note, can we assume that from your quote above that 7.0 will have XFree4.0 as its default window manager?

Depends on if your chipset is supported. On the Dell 410 with an TNT2 based card where I just installed it at Oracle it indeed uses 4.0 by default, but where your chipset is unsupported it falls back to 3.3.6. -- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

At 08:54 AM 8/1/00 +0100, Derek Fountain wrote:

...

The timing does seem odd, to the point of silly. The press release says the new distro will be available at the end of August. Hmmm. That's one week before KDE2 is due for release. The 2.4 kernel will probably be ready a month or two later.

Does this mean the next version, a "minor" upgrade to 7.1, will contain a completely new kernel, with new user space tools, plus a whole new desktop?

I guess SuSE know what they're doing, but it doesn't make much sense to me...

Yeah, me too. I don't like to buy new linux box in just a period of one, two or three months.

Well then wait. It seems pretty simple, just wait for 7.1. SuSE cannot schedule around the kernel and KDE, it could be a long way out for either. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Hi, On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, Irwan Hadi wrote:

...

I guess SuSE know what they're doing, but it doesn't make much sense to me...

Yeah, me too. I don't like to buy new linux box in just a period of one, two or three months.

Well, nobody is forcing you to do so, don't you think? :) Bye, LenZ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lenz Grimmer SuSE GmbH mailto:grimmer@suse.de Schanzaeckerstr. 10 http://www.suse.de/~grimmer/ 90443 Nuernberg, Germany You tell 'em Envelope, you're well posted. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq