* Felipe Alfaro Solana (felipe_alfaro@linuxmail.org) [030918 17:47]:

On Fri, 2003-09-19 at 02:16, Doug McGarrett wrote:

...

Hello--

What does Gentoo have that SuSE doesn't, and why should one switch to the relativley unknown Linux? What does is do (or not not do) compared to SuSE?

That's a damn good question! Maybe more timely updates? ;-)

So a two hour turn around on OpenSSH wasn't good enough? I can say your never going to get the blood red bleeding edge stuff out of SuSE..it just won't happen. SuSE just isn't into that sort of thing. This would be why they patched OpenSSH 3.5p1 instead of just making 3.7.1p1 packages and letting the chips fall where they may. They know that things break and that us long time SLE'ers get REALLY pissed off when 1000's of emails come through with blah, blah and blah is broken. So they do try to keep that to a minimum. Thank God. Just do what I do..compile the src yourself and make rpm's. :) The Gentoo thing is that all of one's software has been optimised for whatever system it's running on because it's all been compiled by the user. It seems like a lot of work for those of us who actual have jobs, wives/husbands and just lives in general. :) It's all the hip thing now for some reason..it's not all uber corp. in nature. Or at least those are some of the reasons I've heard / read. -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org ----- If two men agree on everything, you can be sure that only one of them is doing the thinking.

Ben Rosenberg (ben@whack.org) wrote: Hello Ben! I'll miss your posts on the list (I have some simpathy with you coming from the same background - OS/2 :-)

So a two hour turn around on OpenSSH wasn't good enough? I can say your never going to get the blood red bleeding edge stuff out of SuSE..it just won't happen. SuSE just isn't into that sort of thing. This would be why they patched OpenSSH 3.5p1 instead of just making 3.7.1p1 packages and letting the chips fall where they may. They know that things break and that us long time SLE'ers get REALLY pissed off when 1000's of emails come through with blah, blah and blah is broken. So they do try to keep that to a minimum. Thank God.

There is no rush to constant updating. I can do "emerge sync" whenever I like, and emerge whatever I want. So many spams is received daily (athough ASK is catching them) here, and I was not pissed off with some emails coming through. Instead it was quite humorous reading some of the posts of guys trying to combat the situation :-)

Just do what I do..compile the src yourself and make rpm's. :)

Yeah, I noticed that I'm doing too mcuh of compiling src, so why not having everything from source, and btw, I started on Gentoo with binary packages for X, KDE .. :-)

The Gentoo thing is that all of one's software has been optimised for whatever system it's running on because it's all been compiled by the user. It seems like a lot of work for those of us who actual have jobs, wives/husbands and just lives in general. :) It's all the hip thing now for some reason..it's not all uber corp. in nature. Or at least those are some of the reasons I've heard / read.

Moreover, my system is much cleaner than before since it was built in small steps and there are no tons of packages I don't really need. Last point, I'm running Celeron 686 with 256MB and have only ISDN dialup - it's probably not very common setup for someone in US - have wife, and have many other obligations ... bnd still can manage Gentoo. From time to time I can afford to run: emerge -pv package to check what will happen (similar to apt-get -s). Then, download package with: emerge -f package When the package(s) are downloaded, they are easily emerged with: emerge package(s) and everything will be nicely compiled (in the background) and installed. The last step is soemthing like: rc-update and/or etc-update to update config files and/or add some script to the boot processs. Optimised system was not a buyer for me, but it was a more comfortable and capable package system. Bit, there are no bad feelings with SuSE. It just happened that I've found something that suits me more :-) Sincerely, Gour -- Gour gour@mail.inet.hr Registered Linux User #278493

On Friday 19 September 2003 4:51 am, Sergio Dominguez wrote:

...

So many spams is received daily (athough ASK is catching them) here, and I was not pissed off with some emails coming through. Instead it was quite humorous reading some of the posts of guys trying to combat the situation :-)

Sorry guys, new to the list.

So... the over 20 (20!!!!!!!!!) emails I got today with MSN network updates and similar wich I could not figure out where they are coming through as I have my account pretty clean...

are coming through here??

I doubt it. I haven't received any of those...

I just arrived here and got a couple of messages of a thread

help with spamassasin... was that about it??

Sergio

-- Nothing is better than Sex. Masturbation is better than nothing. Therefore, Masturbation is better than Sex.

-- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 09/19/03 07:06 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "On a clear disk you can seek forever."

On Friday 19 September 2003 13:14, Sergio Dominguez wrote:

Actually they are the same messages as you mention in the other message

Odd spamassasing reports...

so I guess they might be coming through here.

They are already blocked, though, but it got critical this morning.

It's an old worm that got reactivated tonight. (Swen-something) You'll get either a Micro$oft-Mail with an attached patch or some "undeliverable mail"-crap. Up to now, I haven't got any of those through the list. Hansen -- Powered by SuSE 8.1pro - KDE 3.0.3 - KMail 1.4.3 At least, try asking smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Netiquette is easy: http://learn.to/edit_messages ...and you'll get flame-free answers in no time.

On Fri, 2003-09-19 at 01:56, Ben Rosenberg wrote: [snip]

The Gentoo thing is that all of one's software has been optimised for whatever system it's running on because it's all been compiled by the user. It seems like a lot of work for those of us who actual have jobs, wives/husbands and just lives in general. :) It's all the hip thing now for some reason..it's not all uber corp. in nature. Or at least those are some of the reasons I've heard / read.

You highlight one of the reasons I switched back to SuSE from ROCK Linux (http://www.rocklinux.org/). Compiling the whole lot from source is not quite as bad at it sounds, and you _do_ get a system that is optimised for the hardware you have (if you know what you are doing). It is a bit time-consuming however. I do believe that Gentoo has got a very good thing going as they have replicated something that *BSD has, a ports tree. And if you stick to their stable ports tree, you will not see breakages a lot, a bit like you should not use the Sid tree in Debian unless you are happy to have things break now and then. As for building from source being 'all the rage' I have to disagree. I was using ROCK some three years ago, and I believe that Slackware was compiling things from source as well long before that. It might be however that the threshold for using a compiled-from-source distribution has dropped, making it more available to Joe User. I will probably give Gentoo a try on a box sometime, but SuSE is what is staying on my main workstation. Precisely for the reason you gave in the text I cut away, it is stable and SuSE doesn't piss about with it a whole lot, meaning it 'Just Works [tm]'. Regards, -- Anders Karlsson <anders@trudheim.com> Trudheim Technology Limited

On Sat, 2003-09-20 at 07:57, John Andersen wrote:

This "optimized" argument really does not wash in the real world. The idea that something that is compiled locally is automatically optimized for the system that compiled it is rubbish.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, because I know too little about optimizing things in source or compile time. But I would like to share a little real world experience: About a year ago I built a LinuxFromScratch 4.0 system on my then Celeron 500mhz machine. I didn't do any optimization of any sort, just did what the book told me. I added alsa, IceWM at first so I could work from a gui, xmms, so I could listen to music while I do it. Then I proceeded to compile qt and KDE3 and pretty much anything KDE needed or could use and some extra stuff - MPlayer, mozilla, ect. This system was quite a bit more snappy than anything I've used. My KDE desktop was a lot quicker than it was on any distro I've tried until then. All my apps started faster than on any linux distro. XMMS started instantly, instead of grinding for two or three seconds. Even now on my Athlon, there are things that take longer to load than it did on the LFS system. Why? I really don't know. I wish I did. When I got the Athlon I wiped the LFS partition and started all over, so that my stuff would be compiled for the new hardware. I was disappointed - there didn't seem to be much difference between my LFS system and SuSE (8.1 at the time). Maybe because SuSE already runs a kernel optimized for Athlon, maybe because the Athlon is so fast that the difference between optimized and not optimized is much smaller in relation to one another than it was on the Celeron. But it definitely did make a difference then... Hans

Doug McGarrett (dmcgarrett@nyc.rr.com) wrote:

What does Gentoo have that SuSE doesn't, and why should one switch to the relativley unknown Linux? What does is do (or not not do) compared to SuSE?

I can only say Gentoo has portage package management system, not a rpm-like as in SuSE. Sincerely, Gour -- Gour gour@mail.inet.hr Registered Linux User #278493

On Thursday 18 September 2003 19:16, Doug McGarrett wrote:

Hello--

What does Gentoo have that SuSE doesn't, and why should one switch to the relativley unknown Linux? What does is do (or not not do) compared to SuSE?

--doug

It has a build/install system very similair to BSD Ports. When you say "Emerge KDE", it'll grab KDE sources, and if needed, grab QT sources, etc, so it can build them... And since it's built for YOUR machine, it's always optimized. -Daniel