I heard on the way home Friday that Sun Microsystems had a pretty bad quarter this time. I am a major fan of Java, and I started using gnu on Solaris before I ever installed linux on a system. Sun has put considerable resources into producing Java which they give away for free. Java is the first programming language that was both powerful enough and simple enough for me to produce meaningful code. My coworkers tend to bad-mouth sun platforms. I really don't know what to think about sparc in comparison to other hardware. I have never had a good feel for what the relevent benchmarks are by which such a comparison could be made. That being the case, I obviously don't know what the results of evaluations comparing different platforms are. Does anybody have any solid information regarding this? I've tried to finagle some resources to try out SuSE's sparc distribution, but management is not supportive right now. Has anybody worked with this? If so, what have you learned? Are there apps available for that setup? Java? Apache? Are these 64-bit apps? I would truly hate to think Sun were shooting themselves in the foot by giving away so much of their intellectual property at the expense of their own hardware products. I will admit, Solaris lacks many of the features I take for granted with SuSE Linux, such as a journaling file system, a current KDE with all the management features working, etc. I do have the older KDE running on Solaris, but the integration is less that ideal. Opinions?
On Sunday 20 January 2002 19.10, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
I would truly hate to think Sun were shooting themselves in the foot by giving away so much of their intellectual property at the expense of their own hardware products.
Sun makes most of their money from hardware sales. Their chief (nowadays perhaps only) competitor in the upper range server market is IBM. Benchmarks between the two are roughly equal. Sometimes IBM comes out ahead, sometimes Sun does. I think it depends on who does the benchmarking, and who pays for it (hey, you didn't think M$ invented that, did you :). As far as supporting Linux and giving away Solaris x86 and stuff for linux goes, I think Sun knows exactly what they're doing. Someone who's used windows on Intel is far less knowledgeable about unix and far less likely to go with Solaris on the server. If linux/unix is used on the desktop, people will be more than halfway towards going un*x all the way. Call it a loss leader. And I don't think Sun would cry too much about Linux on the Sparc. I could be wrong, but I think their profit margins are so directed towards the hardware side that I really don't think they'd care. They may even save a few $$$ in reduced support calls, since they don't support linux themselves. //Anders
Anders Johansson wrote:
On Sunday 20 January 2002 19.10, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
I would truly hate to think Sun were shooting themselves in the foot by giving away so much of their intellectual property at the expense of their own hardware products.
Sun makes most of their money from hardware sales. Their chief (nowadays perhaps only) competitor in the upper range server market is IBM. Benchmarks between the two are roughly equal. Sometimes IBM comes out ahead, sometimes Sun does. I think it depends on who does the benchmarking, and who pays for it (hey, you didn't think M$ invented that, did you :).
As far as supporting Linux and giving away Solaris x86 and stuff for linux goes, I think Sun knows exactly what they're doing. Someone who's used windows on Intel is far less knowledgeable about unix and far less likely to go with Solaris on the server. If linux/unix is used on the desktop, people will be more than halfway towards going un*x all the way. Call it a loss leader.
No doubt Sun has fewer support headaches when their servers are dealing with linux clients than with MS, and giving away StarOffice without supporting it is well worth it when it keeps MS from getting a foot in the door. Sun already announced that their x86 products will not be kept up to date. Whether that decision might have been influenced by increasingly competitive IA hardware seems to be a point that not even the media care to touch. -- Tim Prince tprince@computer.org
When I installed Solaris IA, I started to get a gut feeling. It is my belief that Sun's "freeware" (java, solaris IA, star office) are basically sales gimmicks for their hugely overpriced hardware. If this suspicion is correct, then I don't believe that Sun's sales in the hardware will affect their free software. More likely, I think, they'll probably do more of their "freeware advertising". On Sunday 20 January 2002 12:10, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
I heard on the way home Friday that Sun Microsystems had a pretty bad quarter this time. I am a major fan of Java, and I started using gnu on Solaris before I ever installed linux on a system. Sun has put considerable resources into producing Java which they give away for free. Java is the first programming language that was both powerful enough and simple enough for me to produce meaningful code. My coworkers tend to bad-mouth sun platforms.
I really don't know what to think about sparc in comparison to other hardware. I have never had a good feel for what the relevent benchmarks are by which such a comparison could be made. That being the case, I obviously don't know what the results of evaluations comparing different platforms are. Does anybody have any solid information regarding this?
I've tried to finagle some resources to try out SuSE's sparc distribution, but management is not supportive right now. Has anybody worked with this? If so, what have you learned? Are there apps available for that setup? Java? Apache? Are these 64-bit apps?
I would truly hate to think Sun were shooting themselves in the foot by giving away so much of their intellectual property at the expense of their own hardware products. I will admit, Solaris lacks many of the features I take for granted with SuSE Linux, such as a journaling file system, a current KDE with all the management features working, etc. I do have the older KDE running on Solaris, but the integration is less that ideal.
Opinions?
On Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 06:17:18PM -0600, David Grove wrote:
When I installed Solaris IA, I started to get a gut feeling. It is my belief that Sun's "freeware" (java, solaris IA, star office) are basically sales gimmicks for their hugely overpriced hardware. If this suspicion is correct, then I don't believe that Sun's sales in the hardware will affect their free software. More likely, I think, they'll probably do more of their "freeware advertising".
Well, "hugely overpriced" is relative. I think compared to all the other Unix providers (HP, IBM, and SGI for example) their prices are decent. Of course, compared to Intel hardware it is expensive, but that's not a fair comparison. In my opinion, Sun hardware (and IBM/HP/SGI for that matter) is of a much higher quality than any PC you can buy. The price comparisons is like comparing a Geo Metro to Porsche. Just my two cents -- flame me if you wish.
On Sunday 20 January 2002 12:10, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
I heard on the way home Friday that Sun Microsystems had a pretty bad quarter this time. I am a major fan of Java, and I started using gnu on Solaris before I ever installed linux on a system. Sun has put considerable resources into producing Java which they give away for free. Java is the first programming language that was both powerful enough and simple enough for me to produce meaningful code. My coworkers tend to bad-mouth sun platforms.
I really don't know what to think about sparc in comparison to other hardware. I have never had a good feel for what the relevent benchmarks are by which such a comparison could be made. That being the case, I obviously don't know what the results of evaluations comparing different platforms are. Does anybody have any solid information regarding this?
I've tried to finagle some resources to try out SuSE's sparc distribution, but management is not supportive right now. Has anybody worked with this? If so, what have you learned? Are there apps available for that setup? Java? Apache? Are these 64-bit apps?
I would truly hate to think Sun were shooting themselves in the foot by giving away so much of their intellectual property at the expense of their own hardware products. I will admit, Solaris lacks many of the features I take for granted with SuSE Linux, such as a journaling file system, a current KDE with all the management features working, etc. I do have the older KDE running on Solaris, but the integration is less that ideal.
Opinions?
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
-- Nick Webb http://www.uidaho.edu/~nickw/
I support both Sun servers and HP 9000 series servers at work and we have more hardware problems with the Sun's than we do with the HP's, many more. I prefer HP-UX to Solaris/SunOS but that is just because I am more familiar with HP-UX than Sun's UNIX implementation. Dale Whittemore -----Original Message-----
On Sunday 20 January 2002 12:10, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
I heard on the way home Friday that Sun Microsystems had
quarter this time. I am a major fan of Java, and I started using gnu on Solaris before I ever installed linux on a system. Sun has put considerable resources into producing Java which they give away for free. Java is the first programming language that was both
simple enough for me to produce meaningful code. My coworkers tend to bad-mouth sun platforms.
I really don't know what to think about sparc in comparison to other hardware. I have never had a good feel for what the relevent benchmarks are by which such a comparison could be made. That being the case, I obviously don't know what the results of evaluations comparing different platforms are. Does anybody have any solid information regarding this?
I've tried to finagle some resources to try out SuSE's sparc distribution, but management is not supportive right now. Has anybody worked with this? If so, what have you learned? Are there apps available for that setup? Java? Apache? Are these 64-bit apps?
I would truly hate to think Sun were shooting themselves in the foot by giving away so much of their intellectual property at
own hardware products. I will admit, Solaris lacks many of the features I take for granted with SuSE Linux, such as a journaling file system, a current KDE with all the management features working, etc. I do have the older KDE running on Solaris, but the integration is less that ideal.
Opinions?
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and
a pretty bad powerful enough and the expense of their the
archives at http://lists.suse.com
-- Nick Webb http://www.uidaho.edu/~nickw/ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
Well, I've worked with Sun hardware for quite sometime now and I can tell you that the difference between highend Xeon boxes from ANY PC manufacture do not compare with Sun hardware in many way. The Sun OpenBoot fireware is lightyears ahead of PC Bios. This isn't a Solaris vs. Linux thing..it's a PC's are were designed for Windows in 9-10 cases and don't enjoy many features of other platforms. I know you can have Linux output it's display to the serial port but it's much more of a pain the ass to work in PC's via terminal servers then it is with many other platforms..I like being able to send a break to a Sun if it gets hosed and have it reboot then to have to drive in to sit at the console to do this..since I live 40+ miles from work. :) /end of babbling about Sun's OpenBoot. :) * Nick Webb (nickw@uidaho.edu) [020120 16:35]: ->On Sun, Jan 20, 2002 at 06:17:18PM -0600, David Grove wrote: ->> When I installed Solaris IA, I started to get a gut feeling. It is my belief ->> that Sun's "freeware" (java, solaris IA, star office) are basically sales ->> gimmicks for their hugely overpriced hardware. If this suspicion is correct, ->> then I don't believe that Sun's sales in the hardware will affect their free ->> software. More likely, I think, they'll probably do more of their "freeware ->> advertising". -> ->Well, "hugely overpriced" is relative. I think compared to all the other Unix providers (HP, IBM, and SGI for example) their prices are decent. Of course, compared to Intel hardware it is expensive, but that's not a fair comparison. In my opinion, Sun hardware (and IBM/HP/SGI for that matter) is of a much higher quality than any PC you can buy. The price comparisons is like comparing a Geo Metro to Porsche. -----=====-----=====-----=====-----=====----- Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org -----=====-----=====-----=====-----=====----- I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...
"Steven T. Hatton"
I really don't know what to think about sparc in comparison to other hardware.
In the field where I work (CPU intensive simulations) SPARC based workstations (1-2 CPU) are slow and expensive compared to PCs (see e.g. http://www.spec.org.
I have never had a good feel for what the relevent benchmarks are by which such a comparison could be made.
There are more factors than just the price/performance ratio which must be considered for big (> 8 CPU) servers. As a result, some customers prefer hardware from Sun other from IBM, HP, SGI, ... A single benchmark result is useless here.
I would truly hate to think Sun were shooting themselves in the foot by giving away so much of their intellectual property at the expense of their own hardware products.
I agree with the idea that Sun knows what it is doing. (It simply helps to sell more Sun hardware). Sun management's decisions are based on information which other people don't have. From the people's point of view these decisions may look stupid but in fact they are not stupid at all. I worked for Sun many years ago. I couldn't understand why Sun started its re-orientation from workstations (where it was a leader at the time) to big servers. Three years later, the speed of Intel CPUs was comparable to SPARC CPUs. Nowadays, the Intel CPUs are faster. They simply new at the time it would happen.
I will admit, Solaris lacks many of the features I take for granted with SuSE Linux, such as a journaling file system,
It may not be on the Solaris CD (I don't know) but there are journaling file systems available for Solaris. (I used one on Solaris 2.5.) Solaris lacks some features but has other ones which are not in Linux. For me, Linux is a much better solution right now. -- Alexandr.Malusek@imv.liu.se
Hi guys I need to allow on my Postfix server email relaying... But I don't know how to enable that... I'm using Postfix, APOP, and QPOPER on a SuSE 7.3 installation. Thanks in advance. bye --ed
participants (9)
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Alexandr Malusek -
Anders Johansson -
Ben Rosenberg -
Dale W. -
David Grove -
Linux - User -
Nick Webb -
Steven T. Hatton -
Tim Prince