Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives
On Thu, May 24, 2007 7:57 pm, Pueblo Native wrote:
I'm putting together a document listing alternatives for Microsoft Publisher, and so far I can only think of Scribus. Are there any others out there that show promise?
AFAIK, no. There's really nothing that matches the simplicity and power of MS Publisher unfortunately. My wife just used it the other day for a open house flyer and my mom has it running in Crossover Office on her SUSE system. You can see a ongoing list of linux/windows alternatives here: http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html It has been a little while since the last update, but they seem to be there on occasion. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 2007-05-25 08:41, Kai Ponte wrote:
On Thu, May 24, 2007 7:57 pm, Pueblo Native wrote:
I'm putting together a document listing alternatives for Microsoft Publisher, and so far I can only think of Scribus. Are there any others out there that show promise?
AFAIK, no. There's really nothing that matches the simplicity and power of MS Publisher unfortunately. My wife just used it the other day for a open house flyer and my mom has it running in Crossover Office on her SUSE system. You can see a ongoing list of linux/windows alternatives here:
http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html
It has been a little while since the last update, but they seem to be there on occasion.
(Does it have to be "free" as in zero cost?) As far as DTP features go I'd recommend PageStream. http://www.grasshopperllc.com Other than low-end DTP work, don't use MS Publisher for anything else. My wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher. It looked OK, but I wondered why it took so long for the pages to load. I looked at the html and discovered that when Publisher exports to HTML it generates horribly bloated HTML and unnecessarily converts some text boxes to bitmaps. I rebuilt their web site using straight HTML and the new version was about 1 percent of the size of the Publisher version. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Ken Jennings wrote:
wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher.
what a horrible idea :-))) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://gourmandises.orangeblog.fr/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 18:43 +0200, jdd wrote:
Ken Jennings wrote:
wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher.
what a horrible idea :-)))
Cant we do that now in OOo for those not inclined to use text editors or Quanta? -- ___ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ | | | | [__ | | | |___ |_|_| ___] | \/ | \ /|\ || |\ / |~~\ /~~\ /~~| //~~\ | \ / | \ || | X |__/| || |( `--. |__ | | \| \_/ / \ | \ \__/ \__| \\__/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carl Spitzer wrote:
On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 18:43 +0200, jdd wrote:
Ken Jennings wrote:
wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher. what a horrible idea :-)))
Cant we do that now in OOo for those not inclined to use text editors or Quanta?
OOo is perfect for printing, sombody can export to html a document mainly done for printing. Using OOo as site generator is not a good idea. If you want to generate a site, nowaday, without html, better install a CMS. A very small one is PmWiki (http://pmwiki.org) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://gourmandises.orangeblog.fr/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carl Spitzer wrote:
On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 18:43 +0200, jdd wrote:
Ken Jennings wrote:
wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher. what a horrible idea :-)))
Cant we do that now in OOo for those not inclined to use text editors or Quanta?
OOO generates horrible html as well, so I guess the answer is yes. :-) Regards, -- Jos van Kan registered Linux user #152704 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Jos van Kan wrote:
OOO generates horrible html as well, so I guess the answer is yes. :-)
yes and no :-) OOo generates an html code that prints quite like OOo would print the page. You can have a little better code with starting directly an html page (not a text page) some years ago OOo couldn't use mor than one table level and _change_ any html page it reads accordingly The original StarOffice was a _very good_ frame editor (one could build frames and edit each frame in place), but this was dropped with OOo... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://gourmandises.orangeblog.fr/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 31 May 2007 09:52, jdd wrote:
OOo generates an html code that prints quite like OOo would print the page. You can have a little better code with starting directly an html page (not a text page)
It may not be too bad if you convert a finished page, but if you make corrections or changes, you will find that the yuckiness of the HTML increases exponentially :-) You can get situations where the font of a heading changes, for instance, and you can't change it back - the reason is usually because OOo has inserted some markup of its own (the dreaded <span>) which you can't get at unless you look at the code view. But if you have to do that, it's easier to use Quanta from the start. -- Pob hwyl / Best wishes Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - KDE yn Gymraeg www.klebran.org.uk - Gwirydd gramadeg rhydd i'r Gymraeg www.eurfa.org.uk - Geiriadur rhydd i'r Gymraeg www.rhedadur.org.uk - Rhedeg berfau Cymraeg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, May 30, 2007 9:15 am, Ken Jennings wrote:
(Does it have to be "free" as in zero cost?) As far as DTP features go I'd recommend PageStream. http://www.grasshopperllc.com
Well, I downloaded it. First impressions aren't that great, but I'm sure it would work. It didn't easily let me wrap text in a box nor did it have any templates for me to start from. On top of that, it is a SDI app - yech. I can't tell you how annoying SDI apps are to me. All the same, if I'm needing DTP, I might buy it. It would be worth $99 to give Linux DTP more support. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte wrote:
On Wed, May 30, 2007 9:15 am, Ken Jennings wrote:
(Does it have to be "free" as in zero cost?) As far as DTP features go I'd recommend PageStream. http://www.grasshopperllc.com
Well, I downloaded it. First impressions aren't that great, but I'm sure it would work. It didn't easily let me wrap text in a box nor did it have any templates for me to start from.
On top of that, it is a SDI app - yech. I can't tell you how annoying SDI apps are to me.
All the same, if I'm needing DTP, I might buy it. It would be worth $99 to give Linux DTP more support.
I'm not completely biased against commercial software, but it would depend upon circumstances. I'm sure your going to have some people scratching their heads asking why they would delete publisher and purchase another program (as opposed to a free download like OpenOffice). Of course, if they're looking to buy or upgrade, it would be a whole different discussion. I guess it depends upon why they are moving.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 2007-05-30 14:34, Pueblo Native wrote: [...]
I'm not completely biased against commercial software, but it would depend upon circumstances. I'm sure your going to have some people scratching their heads asking why they would delete publisher and purchase another program (as opposed to a free download like OpenOffice).
Publisher is probably the worst part of the Microsoft Office suite. It just doesn't work for reasonably serious work or for things Microsoft touts as the target uses of Publisher. I wrote earlier about the lame web page export from publisher. My wife also designed some postcard mailers for her business using publisher. Don't let those registration marks in the output fool you -- the output from Publisher is completely unusable at every professional bulk printing service we tried. Output to postscript and/or converting that to PDF does not improve Publisher output usability either. In the end I did her postcards in OpenOffice. The only sticking point was determining exactly the page size to use. Once that was solved the OOo PDF files were good everywhere we tried to print them and the finished results were perfect. Publisher is unsuitable for anything other than the most simple DTP projects that you will output directly to your own printer. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Onsdag 30 maj 2007 21:47 skrev Ken Jennings:
On Wednesday 2007-05-30 14:34, Pueblo Native wrote: [...]
I'm not completely biased against commercial software, but it would depend upon circumstances. I'm sure your going to have some people scratching their heads asking why they would delete publisher and purchase another program (as opposed to a free download like OpenOffice).
Publisher is probably the worst part of the Microsoft Office suite. It just doesn't work for reasonably serious work or for things Microsoft touts as the target uses of Publisher.
I wrote earlier about the lame web page export from publisher. My wife also designed some postcard mailers for her business using publisher. Don't let those registration marks in the output fool you -- the output from Publisher is completely unusable at every professional bulk printing service we tried. Output to postscript and/or converting that to PDF does not improve Publisher output usability either.
In the end I did her postcards in OpenOffice. The only sticking point was determining exactly the page size to use. Once that was solved the OOo PDF files were good everywhere we tried to print them and the finished results were perfect.
Publisher is unsuitable for anything other than the most simple DTP projects that you will output directly to your own printer.
Please let me add to the above (very true) statement... MS-Publisher is a disaster in a number of ways. One of my very good friends is a virtual expert in MSP. He's done 1000s of hours of work in the programme, only to realize that NO printer will take his files. And they cannot be converted to anything proper without loosing contents and all. So now, when he is so dammed good at the programme, he realizes that all his expertize is lost due to a clear case of vendor lock-in. I said that to him 5 years ago. He didn't listen. The reason for not listening was simple, MSP is so simple to use, that it to the untrained it appears very attractive. Once trapped... My advice; Linux has got Scribus and propably others too, stick to them (or OO) and avoid MSP at all costs. As simple as that. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Verner Kjærsgaard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 30 May 2007 15:56, Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
Onsdag 30 maj 2007 21:47 skrev Ken Jennings:
On Wednesday 2007-05-30 14:34, Pueblo Native wrote: [...]
I'm not completely biased against commercial software, but it would depend upon circumstances.
There have to be UNIX programs to do this. It is impossible for there not to be. So buy one. If it won't run on Linux, there are (relatively) cheap UNIX os's out there. I have Solaris, which I got for very little, but never installed. Yes, I know UNIX programs are horrendously expensive, but they are such because the purchasers are going to make a lot of money using them. (Does the expression "Microsoft" ring a bell?) If you really need a "real" publishing system, you are probably making money using it. Pay the tab. (As an aside, you probably got a free Photoshop teaser with your graphics card. The full program costs US$ 998.00, according to the latest B&H catalog from New York.) --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Doug McGarrett wrote:
Yes, I know UNIX programs are horrendously expensive, but they are such because the purchasers are going to make a lot of money using them. (Does the expression "Microsoft" ring a bell?) If you really need a "real" publishing system, you are probably making money using it. Pay the tab.
While not completely disagreeing with you, I think there are a couple of levels between professional publisher and home user. The most common one I would think of is a person who runs a small newsletter for an organization or club of some sort. They don't need _all_ the features of an InDesign, but they would like the publication to come off a little more professionally. Another group might be people that run a professional document, but infrequently (an annual or semi-annual report) and their primary business is not publishing. I really wouldn't want to shell out close to a grand for a program I use very infrequently. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 30 May 2007 19:45, Pueblo Native wrote:
Doug McGarrett wrote:
Yes, I know UNIX programs are horrendously expensive, but they are such because the purchasers are going to make a lot of money using them. (Does the expression "Microsoft" ring a bell?) If you really need a "real" publishing system, you are probably making money using it. Pay the tab.
While not completely disagreeing with you, I think there are a couple of levels between professional publisher and home user. The most common one I would think of is a person who runs a small newsletter for an organization or club of some sort. They don't need _all_ the features of an InDesign, but they would like the publication to come off a little more professionally. Another group might be people that run a professional document, but infrequently (an annual or semi-annual report) and their primary business is not publishing. I really wouldn't want to shell out close to a grand for a program I use very infrequently.
I am the editor of a very nice little newsletter, The Pedal Steel Newsletter, published by the Pedal Steel Guitar Association, Inc. It comes out 10 times a year, and runs 12 to 16 pages. It includes digital photographs, ads, and is published on a Macintosh, using M/S Word, and up to now, Pagemaker. Since Pagemaker is obsolete and not supported any more, it will go to Adobe InDesign, which costs around $270. InDesign runs on Mac Os X version 4, which is BSD UNIX, I believe. (A version also runs on Windows.) That does not mean it runs on Linux, of course, but it's a UNIX routine that is not at the $1K level. If enough Linux users asked, it might be ported. This program provides copy ready for a commercial printer. (We run about 1500 copies a month.) Oh, the PSGA is not making money on the publication; it is a dues-paying self-supporting non-profit organization. --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 31 May 2007 00:45, Pueblo Native wrote:
While not completely disagreeing with you, I think there are a couple of levels between professional publisher and home user. The most common one I would think of is a person who runs a small newsletter for an organization or club of some sort. They don't need _all_ the features of an InDesign, but they would like the publication to come off a little more professionally. Another group might be people that run a professional document, but infrequently (an annual or semi-annual report) and their primary business is not publishing. I really wouldn't want to shell out close to a grand for a program I use very infrequently.
This is a long thread about something that seems to me to be a non-issue. Scribus does what you specify here, and is also intended for pro-am work where you hand things off to printers. It is cross-platform, handles PDFs to a very high standard, and is intended to work closely with Inkscape for non-photo graphics. Is there any reason why the OP, after having looked at it, is casting around (almost perversely, one might say) for something else? Scribus is very easy to use (my 13-year old found his way around it easily, and I can assure you I found it a lot easier than Microsoft Publisher), but has also been the basis for "proper" publishing work (there was a series in Linux Magazine last year from someone who was using it to publish a community newspaper in Belfast). So instead of spending time looking at "alternatives" which are not going to be as good, the OP would be better advised, IMO, to start experimenting with Scribus. -- Pob hwyl / Best wishes Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - KDE yn Gymraeg www.klebran.org.uk - Gwirydd gramadeg rhydd i'r Gymraeg www.eurfa.org.uk - Geiriadur rhydd i'r Gymraeg www.rhedadur.org.uk - Rhedeg berfau Cymraeg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 30 May 2007 12:15, Ken Jennings wrote:
On Friday 2007-05-25 08:41, Kai Ponte wrote:
On Thu, May 24, 2007 7:57 pm, Pueblo Native wrote:
I'm putting together a document listing alternatives for Microsoft Publisher, and so far I can only think of Scribus. Are there any others out there that show promise?
AFAIK, no. There's really nothing that matches the simplicity and power of MS Publisher unfortunately. My wife just used it the other day for a open house flyer and my mom has it running in Crossover Office on her SUSE system. You can see a ongoing list of linux/windows alternatives here:
http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html
It has been a little while since the last update, but they seem to be there on occasion.
(Does it have to be "free" as in zero cost?) As far as DTP features go I'd recommend PageStream. http://www.grasshopperllc.com
Other than low-end DTP work, don't use MS Publisher for anything else. My wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher. It looked OK, but I wondered why it took so long for the pages to load. I looked at the html and discovered that when Publisher exports to HTML it generates horribly bloated HTML and unnecessarily converts some text boxes to bitmaps. I rebuilt their web site using straight HTML and the new version was about 1 percent of the size of the Publisher version.
This may be heresy, but why not make a little money off of M/S? Sell them the revised code! Make them a reasonable offer based on the time you put in, and they'll probably buy it. Another thought: Copyright all the contributions you made--_ before _ you offer it. I'm not a lawyer, so you should check with one before proceeding. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
Carl Spitzer -
Doug McGarrett -
jdd -
Jos van Kan -
Kai Ponte -
Ken Jennings -
Kevin Donnelly -
Pueblo Native -
Verner Kjærsgaard