[opensuse] WARNING! - Latest Update Kills Server - openSUSE Users

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[opensuse] WARNING! - Latest Update Kills Server

D Henson

23 Jan 2008 23 Jan '08

16:22

The latest mandatory update appears to have killed my server. After running the update, as I have done dozens of times, the server stopped responding to mouse and keyboard input. Ah, xserver problem, thought I. Ctrl-alt-backspace. Now I'm looking at the system console @, I think, runlevel 5. I tried various commands such as xdm, gdm, xserver, etc. (I'm not a CLI guy.) None of the commands did anything useful. Now for the really stupid part. I decided to simulate a power failure. This resulted in a reboot and the reboot attempted to give me a gui logon screen (the little clock icon was running) but it never actually got there. I decided I need some help. First, be careful when applying this update. Second, does anyone know how I can recover from this upate? I had a very busy day planned so any assistance will be sincerely appreciated. Don Henson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Jonathan Wilson

23 Jan 23 Jan

16:58

On Wednesday 23 January 2008 10:22:48 D Henson wrote:

...

The latest mandatory update appears to have killed my server.

No, it didn't - at least not if you mean it killed your whole system. What you /probably/ mean is that you updated either the kernel, or some part of the X system, and now it won't run the X server. First, it would help if you told us what you upgraded. Second, it would help if you told us what kind of video card you have. Is it single or dual head (one monitor or two)? The output of lspci would be helpful. Have you considered reconfiguring your X server with "sax2" ? Make a backup of your current xorg.conf first: cp -a /etc/X11/xorg.conf /tmp/ Thanks, JW -- ---------------------- System Administrator - Cedar Creek Software http://www.cedarcreeksoftware.com http://jwadmin.blogspot.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

D Henson

18:19

Jonathan Wilson wrote:

...

On Wednesday 23 January 2008 10:22:48 D Henson wrote:

...
The latest mandatory update appears to have killed my server.

No, it didn't - at least not if you mean it killed your whole system.

What you /probably/ mean is that you updated either the kernel, or some part of the X system, and now it won't run the X server.

You're probably correct. The update was automatic and labeled as mandatory. I don't know what was updated. I don't even know how to find that out.

...

First, it would help if you told us what you upgraded.

See previous comment.

...

Second, it would help if you told us what kind of video card you have. Is it single or dual head (one monitor or two)?

The video card is an Nvidia Geforce 2. (Pretty old) Single monitor.

...

The output of lspci would be helpful.

I can't figure out how to get the output of lspci on this machine so I can send it to you. My local network is still in place. My problem is I can't get the output of ed (what happened to pico?) into a file that I can manipulate. I though >ed stuff would do it but apparently not.

...

Have you considered reconfiguring your X server with "sax2" ? Make a backup of your current xorg.conf first: cp -a /etc/X11/xorg.conf /tmp/

I tried that with another problem some time ago. After about six hours, I restored xorg.config. I'll have a look though. Is there anything special I should be looking for?

...

Thanks,

JW

Don Henson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sloan

18:30

D Henson wrote:

...

You're probably correct. The update was automatic and labeled as mandatory. I don't know what was updated. I don't even know how to find that out.

rpm -qa --last | less (it may take some minutes for output to appear)

...

The video card is an Nvidia Geforce 2. (Pretty old) Single monitor.

OK, nvidia driver issues after kernel or X updates aren't unheard of - but not too hard to fix either.

...

...
The output of lspci would be helpful.

I can't figure out how to get the output of lspci on this machine so I can send it to you. My local network is still in place. My problem is I can't get the output of ed (what happened to pico?) into a file that I can manipulate. I though >ed stuff would do it but apparently not.

lspci > some.file attach the file Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rodney Baker

24 Jan 24 Jan

03:15

On Thursday 24 January 2008 05:00:45 Sloan wrote:

...

D Henson wrote:

...
You're probably correct. The update was automatic and labeled as mandatory. I don't know what was updated. I don't even know how to find that out.

rpm -qa --last | less (it may take some minutes for output to appear)

...
The video card is an Nvidia Geforce 2. (Pretty old) Single monitor.

OK, nvidia driver issues after kernel or X updates aren't unheard of - but not too hard to fix either. [...]

The same thing happened to me with the latest update to kdebase3 and kdelibs3. After mucking around for a bit I reinstalled the Nvidia driver (using the installer downloaded from NVidia) and it all worked again. Seems the driver needed to be rebuilt against some updated libraries (just a guess). No changes to xorg.conf were needed. Regards, -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@optusnet.com.au =================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Aaron Kulkis

23 Jan 23 Jan

18:45

D Henson wrote:

...

Jonathan Wilson wrote:

...
On Wednesday 23 January 2008 10:22:48 D Henson wrote:

...
The latest mandatory update appears to have killed my server.

No, it didn't - at least not if you mean it killed your whole system.

What you /probably/ mean is that you updated either the kernel, or some part of the X system, and now it won't run the X server.

You're probably correct. The update was automatic and labeled as ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Trying to do everything the easy way is what got you in trouble.

...

mandatory. I don't know what was updated. I don't even know how to find that out.

That's what happens when you put something as critical as updates on auto-pilot. I think the only reason such a silly mechanism was developed was to satisfy recent converts from Windows who are used to trying to avoid making conscious decisions at all costs.... Even with vendors like HP, IBM or Sun, I would NEVER set up a machine to allow a vendor to force a patch installation without my knowledge of it -- even for their own proprietary versions of Unix ... The risk, as you have discovered, is still just too high.

...

...
First, it would help if you told us what you upgraded.

See previous comment.

I hope you learned a valuable lesson here. [If you don't...it's going to happen again].

...

...
Second, it would help if you told us what kind of video card you have. Is it single or dual head (one monitor or two)?

The video card is an Nvidia Geforce 2. (Pretty old) Single monitor.

...
The output of lspci would be helpful.

I can't figure out how to get the output of lspci on this machine so I can send it to you. My local network is still in place. My problem is I can't get the output of ed (what happened to pico?) into a file that I can manipulate. I though >ed stuff would do it but apparently not.

You go to command line, su to root, and type the command and save the output into a file # lspci > lspciout Now you've captured all of the output from lspci in the file lspciout, so when you reply to this, you can either read in, or include, the file lspciout

...

...
Have you considered reconfiguring your X server with "sax2" ? Make a backup of your current xorg.conf first: cp -a /etc/X11/xorg.conf /tmp/

I tried that with another problem some time ago. After about six hours, I restored xorg.config. I'll have a look though. Is there anything special I should be looking for?

...
Thanks,

JW

Don Henson

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

24 Jan 24 Jan

10:19

On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 01:45:21PM -0500, Aaron Kulkis wrote:

...

D Henson wrote:

...
Jonathan Wilson wrote:

...
On Wednesday 23 January 2008 10:22:48 D Henson wrote:

...
The latest mandatory update appears to have killed my server.

No, it didn't - at least not if you mean it killed your whole system.

What you /probably/ mean is that you updated either the kernel, or some part of the X system, and now it won't run the X server.

You're probably correct. The update was automatic and labeled as ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Trying to do everything the easy way is what got you in trouble.

...
mandatory. I don't know what was updated. I don't even know how to find that out.

That's what happens when you put something as critical as updates on auto-pilot.

Especially if he installed NVIDIA drivers manually. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

peter

15:54

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Marcus Meissner schrieb: |>>> What you /probably/ mean is that you updated either the kernel, or |>>> some part of the X system, and now it won't run the X server. |>> You're probably correct. The update was automatic and labeled as |> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |> Trying to do everything the easy way is what got you in trouble. Isn't it what computers suppose to do? Easier our lives? | Especially if he installed NVIDIA drivers manually. Is there something wrong with that? I don't think so. A short pop up with 'You need to reinstall your third party nvidia driver after installing this xorg mandatory update' would do the work. Well, some of us know how to read 'sudo tail /var/log/Xorg.0.log' Thus: init 3 wget -c http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/169.09/NVIDIA-Linux-x86-169.... chmod 755 NVIDIA-Linux-x86-169.09-pkg1.run ./NVIDIA-Linux-x86-169.09-pkg1.run cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.bck sax2 -r -m 0=nvidia cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf.bck /etc/X11/xorg.conf init 5 did the thing, but for a completely unexperienced user it might be a problem. Especially, because there was previously no need for such measures. For my part, this trouble was just an unnecessarily waisted spare time. Thus IMO the easiest way would be to inform the common user of critical issues and not to reproach him with trusting mandatory updates. But as always I might be wrong... - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHmLS0h8q3OtgoGAwRAqYhAJ9c8ghzmyza4VHp6QqJZGmuNj7zrQCeP3ee NEX8kEhVYie+D+MUlTvoMaQ= =OosF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

17:02

peter wrote:

...

Marcus Meissner schrieb:

For my part, this trouble was just an unnecessarily waisted spare time. Thus IMO the easiest way would be to inform the common user of critical issues and not to reproach him with trusting mandatory updates. But as always I might be wrong...

No, I think you are right-on-point. This dovetails nicely with the recent thread of "Why aren't more people using Linux"... The fix is easy for most, but I recall when I was just learning Linux, something like this would cause hours of waisted time and great frustration searching the web, lists and bug reports trying to fix it. This will all get better once we have better support from the hardware vendors, but until then Linux will lose a large percentage of people who try it for just this type of reason. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

17:11

On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 11:02:20AM -0600, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

peter wrote:

...
Marcus Meissner schrieb:

For my part, this trouble was just an unnecessarily waisted spare time. Thus IMO the easiest way would be to inform the common user of critical issues and not to reproach him with trusting mandatory updates. But as always I might be wrong...

No, I think you are right-on-point. This dovetails nicely with the recent thread of "Why aren't more people using Linux"... The fix is easy for most, but I recall when I was just learning Linux, something like this would cause hours of waisted time and great frustration searching the web, lists and bug reports trying to fix it. This will all get better once we have better support from the hardware vendors, but until then Linux will lose a large percentage of people who try it for just this type of reason.

Yes. :/ However for NVIDIA and ATI they both make it easy with YUM repositories to add, which likely would have avoided this problem. Btw, the next breakage is coming up with the next openSUSE 10.3 kernel security update, which will again break the manual installed NVIDIA and ATI kernel modules. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

peter

18:08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Marcus Marcus Meissner schrieb: | However for NVIDIA and ATI they both make it easy with YUM repositories | to add, which likely would have avoided this problem. This is also very kind of them, but still it doesn't solve the X-Server issue if one's decided no to use the YUM repository. I can imagine there are quite few of them, especially those who are into games; Some of them might be 'n00bz', I presume. | Btw, the next breakage is coming up with the next openSUSE 10.3 kernel | security update, which will again break the manual installed NVIDIA and ATI | kernel modules. Of course it will, but if one installs the manual driver then at least the install routine itself pops up with the info about the necessity of recompiling the driver in case of a kernel-update. Thus one's got prepared for that. However I've found there no info regarding the X-Server. So the X-Server issue was new, at least to me. Such I can imagine that some unexperienced users might got into trouble and that fact should IMO be anticipated by update builders/devs. | Ciao, Marcus MfG Peter - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHmNQah8q3OtgoGAwRAkBLAJ9DyNJsKDIYzY6coUMevenqqoPXagCcCW27 1STiR7TFHu14nVfPJRLLBJ0= =acXd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

kanenas＠hawaii.rr.com

25 Jan 25 Jan

02:42

On Thursday 24 January 2008 07:11:58 am Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 11:02:20AM -0600, David C. Rankin wrote:

...
peter wrote:

...
Marcus Meissner schrieb:

For my part, this trouble was just an unnecessarily waisted spare time. Thus IMO the easiest way would be to inform the common user of critical issues and not to reproach him with trusting mandatory updates. But as always I might be wrong...

No, I think you are right-on-point. This dovetails nicely with the recent thread of "Why aren't more people using Linux"... The fix is easy for most, but I recall when I was just learning Linux, something like this would cause hours of waisted time and great frustration searching the web, lists and bug reports trying to fix it. This will all get better once we have better support from the hardware vendors, but until then Linux will lose a large percentage of people who try it for just this type of reason.

Yes. :/

However for NVIDIA and ATI they both make it easy with YUM repositories to add, which likely would have avoided this problem.

clip.. But let's not forget that at least some ati cards (and I believe nvidia too) can not be set properly with yast. my integrated mobo has a radeon 1250 which was very problematic until a manual driver install. the problem is that anything done manually once, itmust be done the same way again! it is good that both the ati and nvidia instructions have become excellent! d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jonathan Wilson

24 Jan 24 Jan

17:31

On Thursday 24 January 2008 09:54:28 peter wrote:

...

Marcus Meissner schrieb: |> |> Trying to do everything the easy way is what got you in trouble.

Isn't it what computers suppose to do? Easier our lives?

Supposed to? yes, but in case you haven't noticed, it hasn't happened yet :-D If you want to be as mindlessly trouble-free as possible try Mac OS X or QNX.

...

| Especially if he installed NVIDIA drivers manually.

Is there something wrong with that? I don't think so. A short pop up with 'You need to reinstall your third party nvidia driver after installing this xorg mandatory update' would do the work.

Nothing "wrong" with it, but if you've manually installed something, you have voluntarily removed yourself from The Realm Of The Fully Automated by choice, and you then must continue to maintain that out-of-the-automatic experience yourself. How exactly is it YaST's (or SuSE's) fault that it doesn't account for third-party packages installed by people? They'll never be able to keep track of all the millions of packages that *could* be installed separately by the user. Ok, perhaps they could /specifically/ watch out for the RPM version of the nVidia and ATI drivers, but what if it was compiled from a tarball? If you or I might think that YaST should watch out for graphics drivers "because they're the most important", but then someone else will say "Hey my proprietary Winmodem driver is just as important", and then network cards, sound cards and the list will grow and grow. And what about all the other programs in the world that a user might install with rpm or even compile himself (my favorite is when people install Fedora RPMs or something else they get from rpmfind.net on SuSE or things like that) that would break some user's *very*important* app/game/virtual-something? JW -- ---------------------- System Administrator - Cedar Creek Software http://www.cedarcreeksoftware.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

peter

18:39

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jonathan Wilson schrieb: | Supposed to? yes, but in case you haven't noticed, it hasn't happened yet :-D | If you want to be as mindlessly trouble-free as possible try Mac OS X or QNX. I like your attitude, but don't be surprised if some folks won't understand it. | How exactly is it YaST's (or SuSE's) fault that it doesn't account for | third-party packages installed by people? They'll never be able to keep track | of all the millions of packages that *could* be installed separately by the | user. Ok, perhaps they could /specifically/ watch out for the RPM version of | the nVidia and ATI drivers, ... Don' you think that position is kinda self-righteous? There is of course no software fault of Opensuse. But not being forthcoming enough for unexperienced users, might be considered as a glitch in handling mandatory updates. My post was also meant just as a thought and not as a particular request. | If you or I might think that YaST should watch out for graphics | drivers "because they're the most important", but then someone else will | say "Hey my proprietary Winmodem driver is just as important", and then | network cards, sound cards and the list will grow and grow.... Please consider there are users among us who don't even know how to pronounce CLI, not to mention finding a solution just within the root shell. However I can imagine, that if one has X-window running and a connection to the Internet then yes, he can find a solution to most of his system related problems. Ok I'm out of it. I've said what I had to say...and to put it ignorant way: My X-Server is running, thus why should I care at all? - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHmNt3h8q3OtgoGAwRAjecAJ9+0uUZ+dOaZxjibvtwEy/UARQdtQCcDgPB zCdd1V0SItTc7+9cqGcKwsU= =FgXI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jonathan Wilson

25 Jan 25 Jan

04:47

On Thursday 24 January 2008 12:39:51 you wrote:

...

Jonathan Wilson schrieb: Supposed to? yes, but in case you haven't noticed, it hasn't happened yet :-D

<snip>

...

My post was also meant just as a thought and not as a particular request.

<snip>

...

Ok I'm out of it. I've said what I had to say...and to put it ignorant way: My X-Server is running, thus why should I care at all?

I do hope you realize, my dear fellow, that none of this was aimed at you personally, at all. Just a statement for the sake of discussion, not anything to be upset or worried about. :-) If SuSE /could/ come up with a way to watch out for these things, of course it would make it easier for all users in the long run. It's just not an easy task. Thanks, JW -- ---------------------- System Administrator - Cedar Creek Software http://www.cedarcreeksoftware.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Aaron Kulkis

24 Jan 24 Jan

18:14

peter wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Marcus Meissner schrieb:

|>>> What you /probably/ mean is that you updated either the kernel, or |>>> some part of the X system, and now it won't run the X server. |>> You're probably correct. The update was automatic and labeled as |> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

|> Trying to do everything the easy way is what got you in trouble.

Isn't it what computers suppose to do? Easier our lives?

Yes. But updates are not yet reliable enough to let the system do it just because someone popped a patch out on a suse repository someplace. Automatic update is meant for use inside an organizational environment... so that instead of manually updating 500 desktops, you can just pop a patch onto a server, and let the machines respond to it. The point is, you should never allow a system to be updated without YOU knowing what is happening. Otherwise, you soon discover that the "automatic" way does NOT make your life easier. Case in point --- the OP's current experience.

...

| Especially if he installed NVIDIA drivers manually.

Is there something wrong with that? I don't think so. A short pop up with 'You need to reinstall your third party nvidia driver after installing this xorg mandatory update' would do the work.

Except the kernel and the driver were not upgraded together, which leads to problems like this. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

D Henson

25 Jan 25 Jan

16:44

New subject: No VGA Input (was: Re: [opensuse] WARNING! - Latest Update Kills Server)

I apologize for not responding to some of you but the symptoms have changed. I'll get to that in a moment. First, I want to clear up some apparently mistaken assumptions about me and my system. From some of the comments, it appears that many of you think I'm a professional system administrator with a 'significant' system. (I take this as a complement, by the way.) While I am an IT professional, I'm not a *professional* system administrator. The system I administrate is a small home network with a server/workstation (the one that's broke), a dual-boot workstation, and a Windows laptop. I guess you could say that I'm a part-time administrator. Now to the new symptoms. I now get no display at all, not even the stuff you normally get when you boot the system. Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't any PC monitor display that stuff, regardless of whether or not a driver is installed? All that I do get is "No VGA Input" and "Monitor going to Sleep". This sounds like a hardware problem. I removed my existing card (GeForce 2) and installed a newer one (GeForce FX 5200). No display. Reinstalled the older card. Replaced VGA cable. No display. Removed power for 20 seconds & reconnected power. No display. Replaced monitor with known good monitor. No display. Now I'm really lost. Anybody have any suggestions on how to proceed? Don Henson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

07:11

New subject: No VGA Input (was: Re: [opensuse] WARNING! - Latest Update Kills Server)

On Friday 25 January 2008 10:44:07 am D Henson wrote:

...

I now get no display at all, not even the stuff you normally get when you boot the system. Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't any PC monitor display that stuff, regardless of whether or not a driver is installed? All that I do get is "No VGA Input" and "Monitor going to Sleep". This sounds like a hardware problem. I removed my existing card (GeForce 2) and installed a newer one (GeForce FX 5200). No display. Reinstalled the older card. Replaced VGA cable. No display. Removed power for 20 seconds & reconnected power. No display. Replaced monitor with known good monitor. No display. Now I'm really lost.

Anybody have any suggestions on how to proceed?

It sounds like your problem has nothing to do with latest updates :-( Check is there any lights on computer, any noise. If yes, than opening the box is next step. Reseat all components, RAM first, than all cables you can see. Power on. If nothing happens. Strip down all components on motherboard to bare minimum ie.: - power supply - one RAM module and - graphic adapter If you have known good components use them. It will tell you on the spot is motherboard OK or not. Try to reboot. If nothing happens look to reset CMOS RAM, usually there is some jumper, or simply pull the battery out and replace it. Don't rush, let capacitors discharge. Power on. If nothing. Do as you already did replace graphic adapter, than RAM, power supply one at the time and power on to check is there any changes. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Donald D Henson

26 Jan 26 Jan

11:47

New subject: [opensuse] Re: No VGA Input

Rajko M. wrote:

...

On Friday 25 January 2008 10:44:07 am D Henson wrote:

...
I now get no display at all, not even the stuff you normally get when you boot the system. Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't any PC monitor display that stuff, regardless of whether or not a driver is installed? All that I do get is "No VGA Input" and "Monitor going to Sleep". This sounds like a hardware problem. I removed my existing card (GeForce 2) and installed a newer one (GeForce FX 5200). No display. Reinstalled the older card. Replaced VGA cable. No display. Removed power for 20 seconds & reconnected power. No display. Replaced monitor with known good monitor. No display. Now I'm really lost.

Anybody have any suggestions on how to proceed?

It sounds like your problem has nothing to do with latest updates :-(

I think you're right. That the video failure happened during the update process appears to have been one huge coincidence. See my final comments below.

...

Check is there any lights on computer, any noise.

If yes, than opening the box is next step.

Reseat all components, RAM first, than all cables you can see. Power on.

If nothing happens. Strip down all components on motherboard to bare minimum ie.: - power supply - one RAM module and - graphic adapter

If you have known good components use them. It will tell you on the spot is motherboard OK or not.

Try to reboot. If nothing happens look to reset CMOS RAM, usually there is some jumper, or simply pull the battery out and replace it. Don't rush, let capacitors discharge. Power on.

If nothing. Do as you already did replace graphic adapter, than RAM, power supply one at the time and power on to check is there any changes.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions but I had to go to my recovery plan as I was about to miss a couple of important deadlines. My plan concerning the display is to give to a specialist shop to see what they can do with it. Another option is to just buy a new computer. They're getting pretty cheap. Thanks to all for some very good suggestions and timely responses. Don Henson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jonathan Wilson

25 Jan 25 Jan

17:55

New subject: No VGA Input (was: Re: [opensuse] WARNING! - Latest Update Kills Server)

On Friday 25 January 2008 10:44:07 D Henson wrote:

...

I now get no display at all, not even the stuff you normally get when you boot the system. Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't any PC monitor display that stuff, regardless of whether or not a driver is installed? All that I do get is "No VGA Input" and "Monitor going to Sleep". This sounds like a hardware problem. I removed my existing card (GeForce 2) and installed a newer one (GeForce FX 5200). No display. Reinstalled the older card. Replaced VGA cable. No display. Removed power for 20 seconds & reconnected power. No display. Replaced monitor with known good monitor. No display. Now I'm really lost.

Anybody have any suggestions on how to proceed?

Don Henson

Do you have a CRT or an LCD laptop? Please check to make sure the monitor's settings haven't been corrupted. Just this week I had a friend call and say his big 24" LCD monitor wasn't working anymore - no lights, no display. After poking a lot of buttons I finally figured out that it had just lots it's mind - was listening to the wrong input, was set to partial resolution, a bunch of things. I assume a surge hit the monitor or something. You are saying, I take it, that you do not see even the BIOS messages scrolling by when you first boot up. That makes me wonder if the BIOs is set to send it's output to something other than the AGP/PCIe port. Is there a built-in VGA on the mainboard that you are not using? If so, plug your monitor into it and see if it's getting signal. If so you'll have to go into the BIOS and tell the BIOS to use the AGP/PCIe port (it will probably be an options called "Init Display First" You might also need to clear your CMOS memory. How to do this depends on the specific computer. Its usually done by moving a jumper temporarily. Is the computer turning on at all? Go you get power lights, do the fans start to turn when you turn the computer on? If so and my pervious advice still doesn't work, you might try using a PCI video card too, at least temporarily. JW -- ---------------------- System Administrator - Cedar Creek Software http://www.cedarcreeksoftware.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Donald D Henson

26 Jan 26 Jan

11:37

New subject: [opensuse] Re: No VGA Input

Jonathan Wilson wrote:

...

On Friday 25 January 2008 10:44:07 D Henson wrote:

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I now get no display at all, not even the stuff you normally get when you boot the system. Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't any PC monitor display that stuff, regardless of whether or not a driver is installed? All that I do get is "No VGA Input" and "Monitor going to Sleep". This sounds like a hardware problem. I removed my existing card (GeForce 2) and installed a newer one (GeForce FX 5200). No display. Reinstalled the older card. Replaced VGA cable. No display. Removed power for 20 seconds & reconnected power. No display. Replaced monitor with known good monitor. No display. Now I'm really lost.

Anybody have any suggestions on how to proceed?

Don Henson

Do you have a CRT or an LCD laptop?

LCD - HP V19? (I'm not at my desk.)

...

Please check to make sure the monitor's settings haven't been corrupted. Just this week I had a friend call and say his big 24" LCD monitor wasn't working anymore - no lights, no display. After poking a lot of buttons I finally figured out that it had just lots it's mind - was listening to the wrong input, was set to partial resolution, a bunch of things. I assume a surge hit the monitor or something.

I haven't done that but I will.

...

You are saying, I take it, that you do not see even the BIOS messages scrolling by when you first boot up.

Correct, not even the splash screen announcing the motherboard model, etc.

...

That makes me wonder if the BIOs is set to send it's output to something other than the AGP/PCIe port.

Possible but the system has been working for years and has gone thru several upgrades. I would have thought that such a problem would have shown itself by now.

...

Is there a built-in VGA on the mainboard that you are not using? If so, plug your monitor into it and see if it's getting signal. If so you'll have to go into the BIOS and tell the BIOS to use the AGP/PCIe port (it will probably be an options called "Init Display First"

No built-in that I know of but I'll double check.

...

You might also need to clear your CMOS memory. How to do this depends on the specific computer. Its usually done by moving a jumper temporarily.

That appears to be okay. See next comment below.

...

Is the computer turning on at all? Go you get power lights, do the fans start to turn when you turn the computer on?

Not only does the computer turn on, from the sounds it makes, I can tell that it is loading the operating system and doing such things as mounting external disk drives. I think that if I could just find that VGA on/off switch, everything would immediately go back to normal.

...

If so and my pervious advice still doesn't work, you might try using a PCI video card too, at least temporarily.

The GeForce FX 5200 is a PCI board. Don Henson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

23 Jan 23 Jan

18:58

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2008-01-23 at 11:19 -0700, D Henson wrote:

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You're probably correct. The update was automatic and labeled as mandatory. I don't know what was updated. I don't even know how to find that out.

For instance: rpm -q -a --queryformat "%{INSTALLTIME}\t%{INSTALLTIME:day} \ %{BUILDTIME:day} %-30{NAME}\t%15{VERSION}-%-7{RELEASE}\t%{arch} \ %25{PACKAGER}\n" | sort | cut --fields="2-" | less -S

...

...
Second, it would help if you told us what kind of video card you have. Is it single or dual head (one monitor or two)?

The video card is an Nvidia Geforce 2. (Pretty old) Single monitor.

Using the 'nvidia' or the 'nv' driver? Ie, the comercial or the free driver? The former can fail easily after an upgrade. If that's the case, you should have a section like this in "/etc/X11/xorg.conf": Section "Device" BoardName "GeForce2 MX/MX 400" BusID "1:0:0" Driver "nv" Identifier "Device[0]" VendorName "NVidia" EndSection If you have driver "nvidia" instead, change it to "nv" and problem solved for the moment.

...

...
The output of lspci would be helpful.

I can't figure out how to get the output of lspci on this machine so I can send it to you. My local network is still in place. My problem is I can't get the output of ed (what happened to pico?) into a file that I can manipulate. I though >ed stuff would do it but apparently not.

pico comes with the pine mail program, which I don't suppose is installed by default. You will have "joe". Or you can ssh from another station, where you will have your full graphic modes working, I hope. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHl45YtTMYHG2NR9URAt1SAJoCFy9P5QfOwKjM4KV35CRv+nFfmwCeIPzc FKjrTG/rArvut2kmLiFrjyA= =hOpF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Aaron Kulkis

17:05

D Henson wrote:

...

The latest mandatory update appears to have killed my server. After running the update, as I have done dozens of times, the server stopped responding to mouse and keyboard input. Ah, xserver problem, thought I. Ctrl-alt-backspace. Now I'm looking at the system console @, I think, runlevel 5. I tried various commands such as xdm, gdm, xserver, etc. (I'm not a CLI guy.) None of the commands did anything useful. Now for

you had several options: # shutdown -h now # shutdown and halt system NOW # shutdown -r now # shutdown and reboot NOW # # alternate methods using INIT # init 0 # runlevel 0 = shutdown and halt # init 6 # runlevel 6 = shutdown and reboot --------------- For all you newbies...and other who are GUI-dependant: This should be a lesson to anyone who thinks that they can rely on GUI tools to solve all of your problems. Wrong. Learning the CLI is mandatory for good system administation. (The lack of a decent CLI system and CLI-friendly configuration files, etc. is *part* of the reasons why Windows has always been difficult to administrate. 1 Admin/10 Windows machines. 1 Admin/200+ Unix/Linux machines

...

the really stupid part. I decided to simulate a power failure. This resulted in a reboot and the reboot attempted to give me a gui logon screen (the little clock icon was running) but it never actually got there. I decided I need some help.

First, be careful when applying this update. Second, does anyone know how I can recover from this upate? I had a very busy day planned so any assistance will be sincerely appreciated.

Go to a character console (say, Ctrl-Alt-F3), log in to root, run yast from the command line, follow the menus to software management, and roll back to the previous version BEFORE you updated.

...

Don Henson

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

ka1ifq

18:13

On Wednesday 23 January 2008 11:22:48 am D Henson wrote:

...

The latest mandatory update appears to have killed my server. After running the update, as I have done dozens of times, the server stopped responding to mouse and keyboard input. Ah, xserver problem, thought I. Ctrl-alt-backspace. Now I'm looking at the system console @, I think, runlevel 5. I tried various commands such as xdm, gdm, xserver, etc. (I'm not a CLI guy.) None of the commands did anything useful. Now for the really stupid part. I decided to simulate a power failure. This resulted in a reboot and the reboot attempted to give me a gui logon screen (the little clock icon was running) but it never actually got there. I decided I need some help.

First, be careful when applying this update. Second, does anyone know how I can recover from this upate? I had a very busy day planned so any assistance will be sincerely appreciated.

Don Henson

Which 'server', http, ftp, dns, ldap, etc ??? This mornings 'update' was a suggested update for a security reason. Updates are suggested but never 'manditory' as you don't 'have' to update, your choice, I think you can even mark them as 'don't bug me again about this one'.. I read your message after I had done an update, did a reboot for fun and my computer is still running. If your 'server' is critical you should test updates on a similar system before you commit to something so critical. Hope you fix your problem... Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18:52

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2008-01-23 at 13:13 -0500, ka1ifq wrote:

...

This mornings 'update' was a suggested update for a security reason.

Updates are suggested but never 'manditory' as you don't 'have' to update, your choice, I think you can even mark them as 'don't bug me again about this one'..

Actually, Novell terminology uses the word "mandatory", and this morning update was "mandatory". But the OP probably refers to the xorg-x11-server update of some days back, or the one for kdelibs3. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHl40JtTMYHG2NR9URAjfvAJ43hxjPyP9SQhGVKgaXkUcbwknCsgCfTNFy +1gFhB3mHYWeiC5vOEkLwFc= =RFpt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

D Henson

19:54

ka1ifq wrote:

...

On Wednesday 23 January 2008 11:22:48 am D Henson wrote:

...
The latest mandatory update appears to have killed my server. After running the update, as I have done dozens of times, the server stopped responding to mouse and keyboard input. Ah, xserver problem, thought I. Ctrl-alt-backspace. Now I'm looking at the system console @, I think, runlevel 5. I tried various commands such as xdm, gdm, xserver, etc. (I'm not a CLI guy.) None of the commands did anything useful. Now for the really stupid part. I decided to simulate a power failure. This resulted in a reboot and the reboot attempted to give me a gui logon screen (the little clock icon was running) but it never actually got there. I decided I need some help.

First, be careful when applying this update. Second, does anyone know how I can recover from this upate? I had a very busy day planned so any assistance will be sincerely appreciated.

Don Henson

Which 'server', http, ftp, dns, ldap, etc ???

I have just one machine which I refer to as my 'server'. Mainly I have an NFS server and a samba server running on it.

...

This mornings 'update' was a suggested update for a security reason.

Updates are suggested but never 'manditory' as you don't 'have' to update, your choice, I think you can even mark them as 'don't bug me again about this one'..

When I click on the update icon, it tells me that I have 'x mandatory updates' and 'x other updates'. I realize that you don't 'have' to do the updates but how do I know, or find out, what a given update is for?

...

I read your message after I had done an update, did a reboot for fun and my computer is still running.

It's already been brought to my attention that the update did not kill my server (the machine). It merely caused my xserver to quit.

...

If your 'server' is critical you should test updates on a similar system before you commit to something so critical.

Good advice. Now where did I put that similar system? :-)

...

Hope you fix your problem...

Mike

Thanks. Me too. Don Henson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sunny

20:04

On Jan 23, 2008 1:54 PM, D Henson wrote:

...

It's already been brought to my attention that the update did not kill my server (the machine). It merely caused my xserver to quit.

Please provide your xorg log file, its in /var/log/Xorg.0.log Cheers -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sandy Drobic

20:21

D Henson wrote:

...

...
If your 'server' is critical you should test updates on a similar system before you commit to something so critical.

Good advice. Now where did I put that similar system? :-)

Try vmware or virtualbox. Exactly for that reason we have a test installation of our oracle server within a VM, so we can test patches and updates before ruining a productive system. A working backup also helps, I heard. (^-^) -- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

23:06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2008-01-23 at 12:54 -0700, D Henson wrote:

...

When I click on the update icon, it tells me that I have 'x mandatory updates' and 'x other updates'. I realize that you don't 'have' to do the updates but how do I know, or find out, what a given update is for?

You mean the update icon inside yast, that fires the fully featured YOU, or the task bar applet? If it is the second one, some people have found that it is better to use it only for notifications of updates, and then fire up YOU separately. The other detail is that if you are using the gnome version of Yast, some people have found it lacking, and thus we fire the kde version instead (inside gnome, of course). If this is your case, I'll explain how another time. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHl8hbtTMYHG2NR9URAt4IAJ0ez/34ivl5x87wOvp3cUBoDdeP+QCfecEv cR/4xGX5r+62Z8uY7tS7emQ= =QbzJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Lincoln Rutledge

24 Jan 24 Jan

14:24

Maybe the subject of this thread should change - looking at my inbox, it looks like there's some kind of opensuse explosion happening, which is misleading. Lincoln Rutledge Network Engineer OSC Networking 800-627-6420

...

...
...
"Carlos E. R." 01/23/08 6:06 PM >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Wednesday 2008-01-23 at 12:54 -0700, D Henson wrote:

...

When I click on the update icon, it tells me that I have 'x mandatory updates' and 'x other updates'. I realize that you don't 'have' to do the updates but how do I know, or find out, what a given update is for?

Mike

23 Jan 23 Jan

21:41

On Wednesday 23 January 2008, D Henson wrote:

...

The latest mandatory update appears to have killed my server. After

On my system, today's xorg update overwrote parts of the NVIDIA closed source driver. If you are using that driver the easiest solution is to boot into safe mode and reinstall it. mike. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

22:07

On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 04:41:12PM -0500, Mike wrote:

...

On Wednesday 23 January 2008, D Henson wrote:

...
The latest mandatory update appears to have killed my server. After

On my system, today's xorg update overwrote parts of the NVIDIA closed source driver. If you are using that driver the easiest solution is to boot into safe mode and reinstall it.

It should not have (and likely has not) overwritten anything. What exactly did you see as problems? Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Mike

22:31

On Wednesday 23 January 2008, you wrote:

...

On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 04:41:12PM -0500, Mike wrote:

...
On Wednesday 23 January 2008, D Henson wrote:

...
The latest mandatory update appears to have killed my server. After

On my system, today's xorg update overwrote parts of the NVIDIA closed source driver. If you are using that driver the easiest solution is to boot into safe mode and reinstall it.

It should not have (and likely has not) overwritten anything.

My xorg log file with the problem no longer exists but I believe the problem was related to glx.

...

What exactly did you see as problems?

The nvidia splash screen loading, dark screen flicker several times, then the nvidia splash loading again. This repeated several times, then stopped on a dark screen. On manual reinstall of the nvidia driver it complained about the previous nvidia installation having been modified since it was initially installed (glx library symbolic link in usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions). After the install was complete (with no changes to xorg.conf) the driver worked fine. mike. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rodney Baker

24 Jan 24 Jan

03:16

On Thursday 24 January 2008 09:01:49 Mike wrote:

...

On Wednesday 23 January 2008, you wrote:

...
On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 04:41:12PM -0500, Mike wrote:

...
On Wednesday 23 January 2008, D Henson wrote:

...
The latest mandatory update appears to have killed my server. After

On my system, today's xorg update overwrote parts of the NVIDIA closed source driver. If you are using that driver the easiest solution is to boot into safe mode and reinstall it.

It should not have (and likely has not) overwritten anything.

My xorg log file with the problem no longer exists but I believe the problem was related to glx.

...
What exactly did you see as problems?

The nvidia splash screen loading, dark screen flicker several times, then the nvidia splash loading again. This repeated several times, then stopped on a dark screen.

On manual reinstall of the nvidia driver it complained about the previous nvidia installation having been modified since it was initially installed (glx library symbolic link in usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions). After the install was complete (with no changes to xorg.conf) the driver worked fine.

mike.

I second that - exactly the same symptoms and resolution here. -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@optusnet.com.au =================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Mike

23 Jan 23 Jan

22:36

On Wednesday 23 January 2008, Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

It should not have (and likely has not) overwritten anything.

BTW, the conflict with the NVIDIA driver was reported last week in the discussion of bug 354615... mike. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

24 Jan 24 Jan

08:38

On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 05:36:32PM -0500, Mike wrote:

...

On Wednesday 23 January 2008, Marcus Meissner wrote:

...
It should not have (and likely has not) overwritten anything.

BTW, the conflict with the NVIDIA driver was reported last week in the discussion of bug 354615...

If this is a manually installed NVIDIA driver, its needs to be reinstalled after every xorg-x11-server update, see comment 15. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=354615#c15 ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

D Henson

23 Jan 23 Jan

22:41

I'm going to be out-of-pocket for a few hours. I'll evaluate/try each of your suggestions plus a couple of my own ideas as soon as I get back and after a bit of sleep. Thanks for all your help. Don Henson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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36 comments

17 participants

participants (17)

Aaron Kulkis
Carlos E. R.
D Henson
David C. Rankin
Donald D Henson
Jonathan Wilson
ka1ifq
kanenas＠hawaii.rr.com
Lincoln Rutledge
Marcus Meissner
Mike
peter
Rajko M.
Rodney Baker
Sandy Drobic
Sloan
Sunny