On Tue, Sep 20, 2005 at 02:04:37PM +0200, Martin Sommer wrote:
There is only no PRINTED admin guide in the SL 10.0 box. There will be two manuals as pdf and html in the software, called "Start-Up" and "Reference", similar to the old manuals "User Guide" and "Administration Guide" but only the Start-Up will be included as a printed book.
Pity, because it was the Admin Guide I looked at most. Oh well, we just need to point oit that people need to run `susehelp` (The life-guard in KDE), or use w2m or links if they are on CLI. I will look at the bright side and say that now it is possible to put much, much more information in it (e.g. say, double it) without any added costs for Novell. Several servers could be added. houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
You can also look into the manuals before you install the system if you want to. The pdfs are located on CD 1 in the top level directories, readable (and printable of course) also from a Windows machine: CD1:/docu/*/reference_*.pdf CD1:/docu/*/startup_*.pdf * stands for the language. On Tue, 20 Sep 2005, houghi wrote:
On Tue, Sep 20, 2005 at 02:04:37PM +0200, Martin Sommer wrote:
There is only no PRINTED admin guide in the SL 10.0 box. There will be two manuals as pdf and html in the software, called "Start-Up" and "Reference", similar to the old manuals "User Guide" and "Administration Guide" but only the Start-Up will be included as a printed book.
Pity, because it was the Admin Guide I looked at most.
Oh well, we just need to point oit that people need to run `susehelp` (The life-guard in KDE), or use w2m or links if they are on CLI.
I will look at the bright side and say that now it is possible to put much, much more information in it (e.g. say, double it) without any added costs for Novell.
Several servers could be added.
houghi
-- Dr. Martin Sommer Product Manager Consumer Products SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstraße 5, D-90409 Nürnberg Phone: +49 (0) 911 740 530 Fax: +49 (0) 911 740 53 575 Email: martin.sommer@suse.com ----------------------------------------------------------
On Tue, Sep 20, 2005 at 04:52:10PM +0200, Martin Sommer wrote: <corrected order>
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005, houghi wrote:
On Tue, Sep 20, 2005 at 02:04:37PM +0200, Martin Sommer wrote:
There is only no PRINTED admin guide in the SL 10.0 box. There will be two manuals as pdf and html in the software, called "Start-Up" and "Reference", similar to the old manuals "User Guide" and "Administration Guide" but only the Start-Up will be included as a printed book.
Pity, because it was the Admin Guide I looked at most.
You can also look into the manuals before you install the system if you want to. The pdfs are located on CD 1 in the top level directories, readable (and printable of course) also from a Windows machine:
I understand. For me personally there have been circumstaced that I had no working machine. Also I like to lay in bath, or sit in the train and just browse though them. I always thought that especially having two printed manuals was an added value to the beginner. It was also the reason I recomended people to at least buy their first SUSE because of the manuals. houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
Op dinsdag 20 september 2005 17:14, schreef houghi:
There is only no PRINTED admin guide in the SL 10.0 box. There will be two manuals as pdf and html in the software, called "Start-Up" and "Reference", similar to the old manuals "User Guide" and "Administration Guide" but only the Start-Up will be included as a printed book.
Pity, because it was the Admin Guide I looked at most.
You can also look into the manuals before you install the system if you want to. The pdfs are located on CD 1 in the top level directories, readable (and printable of course) also from a Windows machine:
I understand. For me personally there have been circumstaced that I had no working machine. Also I like to lay in bath, or sit in the train and just browse though them.
I always thought that especially having two printed manuals was an added value to the beginner. It was also the reason I recomended people to at least buy their first SUSE because of the manuals.
2nd this. The admin manually is/was very usefull for an experienced user linux user too. As an experienced linux users has still area that he or she is beginning to learn. -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
Richard Bos schrieb:
Op dinsdag 20 september 2005 17:14, schreef houghi:
There is only no PRINTED admin guide in the SL 10.0 box. There will be two manuals as pdf and html in the software, called "Start-Up" and "Reference", similar to the old manuals "User Guide" and "Administration Guide" but only the Start-Up will be included as a printed book. Pity, because it was the Admin Guide I looked at most. You can also look into the manuals before you install the system if you want to. The pdfs are located on CD 1 in the top level directories, readable (and printable of course) also from a Windows machine: I understand. For me personally there have been circumstaced that I had no working machine. Also I like to lay in bath, or sit in the train and just browse though them.
I always thought that especially having two printed manuals was an added value to the beginner. It was also the reason I recomended people to at least buy their first SUSE because of the manuals.
2nd this. The admin manually is/was very usefull for an experienced user linux user too. As an experienced linux users has still area that he or she is beginning to learn.
Maybe there should be some documentation about it so people buying the 10.0 box are not disappointed. Please complete the lists below. Things which were in the 9.3 box but not in the 10.0 box: - Printed admin guide - DVD with sources - ... Packages which were in the 9.3 box but not in the 10.0 box: - .... Packages which will never be available for 10.0: - Opensource MP3 players via online update - ... Regards, Carl-Daniel
* Carl-Daniel Hailfinger <c-d.hailfinger.devel.2005@gmx.net> [09-21-05 08:10]:
Maybe there should be some documentation about it so people buying the 10.0 box are not disappointed. Please complete the lists below.
Things which were in the 9.3 box but not in the 10.0 box: - Printed admin guide - DVD with sources
IS this *fact* or are you just presenting possible examples? -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2
Patrick Shanahan schrieb:
* Carl-Daniel Hailfinger <c-d.hailfinger.devel.2005@gmx.net> [09-21-05 08:10]:
Maybe there should be some documentation about it so people buying the 10.0 box are not disappointed. Please complete the lists below.
Things which were in the 9.3 box but not in the 10.0 box: - Printed admin guide - DVD with sources
IS this *fact* or are you just presenting possible examples?
Fact to my best knowledge. Regards, Carl-Daniel
It is fact. The box will contain the printed User Guide (now called Start-Up) but the Admin Guide will only be in the software as pdf and html (now called Reference). And it will no longer contain a source DVD. It will contain a DVD 9 with binaries and 5 CDs with 32bit binaries. And it will cost 30 EUR resp. 40 USD less than the 9.3. On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
Patrick Shanahan schrieb:
* Carl-Daniel Hailfinger <c-d.hailfinger.devel.2005@gmx.net> [09-21-05 08:10]:
Maybe there should be some documentation about it so people buying the 10.0 box are not disappointed. Please complete the lists below.
Things which were in the 9.3 box but not in the 10.0 box: - Printed admin guide - DVD with sources
IS this *fact* or are you just presenting possible examples?
Fact to my best knowledge.
Regards, Carl-Daniel
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-- Dr. Martin Sommer Product Manager Consumer Products SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstraße 5, D-90409 Nürnberg Phone: +49 (0) 911 740 530 Fax: +49 (0) 911 740 53 575 Email: martin.sommer@suse.com ----------------------------------------------------------
On Wednesday 21 September 2005 10:22 am, Martin Sommer wrote:
It is fact. The box will contain the printed User Guide (now called Start-Up) but the Admin Guide will only be in the software as pdf and html (now called Reference). And it will no longer contain a source DVD. It will contain a DVD 9 with binaries and 5 CDs with 32bit binaries. And it will cost 30 EUR resp. 40 USD less than the 9.3.
------------------------------------------------------------------- I must say I will also miss the Admin guide, but having it as pdf or html will certainly save me some space on my book shelf! As long as it's available in some form, will suffice quite nicely. Can we assume the sources will be available online then? I do wish these were still included with the package as I always find them very useful, plus I thought the sources had to be included, according to the GPL. Or have I misunderstood that and they only have to be made easily available? end of line Lee
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, BandiPat wrote:
Can we assume the sources will be available online then? I do wish these were still included with the package as I always find them very useful, plus I thought the sources had to be included, according to the GPL. Or have I misunderstood that and they only have to be made easily available?
Quoting http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html ... 3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following: ... b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; ... Note: The sources will be made available in the ftp trees as always. Regards Christoph
On Wednesday 21 September 2005 11:57 am, Christoph Thiel wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, BandiPat wrote:
Can we assume the sources will be available online then? I do wish these were still included with the package as I always find them very useful, plus I thought the sources had to be included, according to the GPL. Or have I misunderstood that and they only have to be made easily available?
Quoting http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
...
3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
...
b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange;
...
Note: The sources will be made available in the ftp trees as always.
Regards Christoph
---------------------------------------------------------------------
And how would one go about requesting a DVD of the sources? regards, Lee
On Thursday 22 September 2005 05:21 am, Christoph Thiel wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, BandiPat wrote:
[...]
And how would one go about requesting a DVD of the sources?
I don't know right now, but that's definitely described in the documentation that comes with the box ;)
Regards Christoph
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, cool, that'll work too. Thanks Christoph and the whole SuSE team! Working to change the way the world computes! ;-) end of line --Lee
Patrick, On Wednesday 21 September 2005 06:46, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carl-Daniel Hailfinger <c-d.hailfinger.devel.2005@gmx.net> [09-21-05 08:10]:
Maybe there should be some documentation about it so people buying the 10.0 box are not disappointed. Please complete the lists below.
Things which were in the 9.3 box but not in the 10.0 box: - Printed admin guide - DVD with sources
IS this *fact* or are you just presenting possible examples?
The wording on the Amazon.com product detail page (<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000BD1R8U>) is perhaps ambiguous, but it does suggest no administrator's guide is included: -==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==- Features: * Printed user manual and installation support * Award-winning Linux operating system * Complete Web, instant messaging and e-mail applications * Office suite, graphics and digital-photo organizers * Spam blocker, firewall and anti-virus protection -==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==- Product Description Product Description SUSE Linux 10.0 from Novell provides everything today's Linux user needs for home computing and computing-on-the-go. Created by the openSUSE project, the product includes a stabilized, secure and reliable Linux operating system plus a complete set of desktop applications - office suite, Web browser, instant messaging client, multimedia viewers, and graphical software. It also offers the latest open source applications for developing applications, setting up a home network, running a Web server, and more. With the convenience of installation media, printed documentation, and installation support, SUSE Linux delivers desktop reliability and security at an affordable price. -==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==- One might observe that this hypothesis (inclusion of a user guide only) is consistent with the lower price, comparable to the old upgrade price, which included only one manual. Randall Schulz
* Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> [09-21-05 09:12]:
One might observe that this hypothesis (inclusion of a user guide only) is consistent with the lower price, comparable to the old upgrade price, which included only one manual.
Yes, the last several releases also indicate the box contains cdroms with no indication of dvds. I hope this is just oversight. I also notice that amazon's price has a 10% reduction since I placed my order. AND, they have not applied it to _my_ order. Guess a land- line communication is necessary. My _retiree's_ income is rather stagnant <grin>.. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2
Patrick, On Wednesday 21 September 2005 07:18, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
...
I also notice that amazon's price has a 10% reduction since I placed my order. AND, they have not applied it to _my_ order. Guess a land- line communication is necessary. My _retiree's_ income is rather stagnant <grin>..
If you dislike having to use the phone as much as I do, you can always just cancel the order and place a new one. I suppose you'll go to the end of the fulfillment line if you do that. Alternately, you can submit an email request (be sure to include the order number) and there's a very good chance that you'll be granted the newly advertised discount. And while I love Amazon.com, I've found it difficult to get to the page with the feedback / request submission form. Start here: <http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/contact-us/cancelling-changing.html> I've done this, myself, since my order, too, was placed before the 10% discount was added and the order detail page does not show the discount. Randall Schulz
participants (8)
-
BandiPat -
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger -
Christoph Thiel -
houghi -
Martin Sommer -
Patrick Shanahan -
Randall R Schulz -
Richard Bos