I read an article the other day that said MS was charging US$59.95 (plus an additional $19.95 if you want the "Advanced Server" edition) for the "right" to use their beta 3 release of Windows 2000 (formerly known as NT 5). So what do you get for your money? Not much. Firstly from what I understand, the whole thing is very restrictive. Dell was one of the first companies to offer it. You get the software and can even have it pre-installed on your Dell system if you wish. But it's what you don't get that is surprising, or perhaps not, considering it's Microsoft we're talking about. Firstly there's the standard "no way in hell are we responsible for anything" End User License Agreement (EULA). That's to be expected and is actually quite common for software in general, so I'll let that go by. Of course the MS EULA is incredibly restrictive on exactly how you can legally use the software, which is quite different from the GNU License (or Copy Left), and I'm quite sure you're all fairly familiar with that, so I'll not belabor the point. Secondly there's the unthinkable... charging for beta software! So what does your US$60-$80 get you? You may, or may not, receive documentation or tech support along with it. That seems to be totally dependent upon whom you purchase the beta from. I believe that Dell is offering some "limited tech support", but quite clearly you're supposed to know that - since because it's beta software, bugs are to be expected and so it's a "use at your own risk" deal. Which is actually appropriate because any beta (or alpha) software is not officially "released" yet and still in the testing stage. And also indicates the moral issue of actually charging for beta software in the first place! I know what you're thinking. People aren't forced to buy it. Unfortunately that's not true. Many professionals are going too have to buy it to learn about it and make an informed judgment on whether their company should plan for it's future (and costly) implementation. Hardly that morally wrong if a few thousand systems administrators around the world purchase it, but what about when this company just happens to have a monopolized strangle-hold on 90% of the world's computers, has an advertising campaign the likes of which you've never seen (I kid you not, there were banner ads all over the Net for Windows 2000 Beta 3) and makes a fortune from the sale of this beta software. Is this right? I think not. What I found of interest especially, was that it would seem that your purchase of the beta, in no way, entitles you to a "free upgrade" to the "official release" when it's finally deemed ready. It was not clear that you would even get a "break" on the upgrade if you purchased the beta, although I could be mistaken on this aspect. So, what you really get for your US$60-$80 is the "right" to run the beta software under strict MS restrictions, with no break on the upgrade price should you decide to upgrade to the "official" release, when it's finally set loose on the world. No "bundled apps" at all that I could tell. Not much of anything really. Ok, now let's see what your same US$60-$80 can get you from Linux. The answer of course is a lot! The "standard" asking price for most Linux distributions is around US$50 or so, and that includes the Linux kernel, the usual assortment of included utilities and apps, including things such as the Apache Web server, the graphics package The Gimp, maybe an office suite like StarOffice or Applix, Corel WordPerfect, loads of server tools for both LANs and the Internet, some browsers, some e-mail and FTP clients, text editors, games, mutilmedia tools, and loads of online documentation! Depending on which distro you choose to use, you'll get a slightly different mixture of software that have been bundled together in that company's idea of what the "perfect" distro package is. Additionally, most distros now come with the excellent GNOME and KDE GUIs if you want to use them. The install routines have also been much improved, judging by all reports I've received. You also get "support" of some form - usually via e-mail, although Red Hat is offering telephone support for the new Red Hat 6.0. Of course that option is for the US$99 package so they've raised their price a bit. Not so much considering they are adding phone support I suppose, but still it may come as quite a shock to those who've become accustomed to the US$50 price being pretty much "standard" for all Linux distros. In short, you get enough software for your $50 to fill up close to 1Gb of drive space - maybe even a bit more - with software that has been thoroughly tested and is for the most part distributed under the Copy Left / Open Source concept. Most of the software packages are "free" for "personal use" and of course there are not the onerous restrictions on who you can or cannot give it too. You bought it, it's yours, you get to decide what to do with it! Some of the software is perhaps limited in some fashion for the free "personal edition". For example, I know that WordPerfect doesn't include all the clipart in the "free" edition (available in the "regular" edition), or a manual. But, if you want to go to the Corel site and get the "registered" version it's only US$89, which is a far cry from the usual cost of Windows software of this caliber. I know that the BRU backup software for the "personal" edition doesn't do things like backup Windows SNB volumes over a network. So? If you need that - buy the "commercial strength" edition. I think it's about US$200. But if you need that capability, that's not so bad really, all things considered. And if you're just running Linux and Win9x in a dual-boot config it will work just fine (at least to my understanding). So I suppose the real "bottom line" here is, why would anyone in their right mind want to pay US$60-$80 for the right to run a beta OS, with no bundled apps, when you can have a tested, proven OS with a raft-load of software for a bit less? I've no idea. You tell me! Along the same lines, the last I heard, MS was going to charge US$89 for the "bug-fix" for Win98. I could maybe understand wanting to charge US$40 or so (considering that they are after all MS, and therefore overcharge for everything) but to charge US$89 for a "bug-fix" upgrade is robbery. Pure and simple robbery. You'd be better advised to just use the Win98 "update windows" function to snag the files you need off the Net while you sleep. Of course that raises a whole other set of issues related to Windows and your privacy which I'll talk about another time... All of this is of course, my view. What's yours? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Hi, On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, an an wrote: <Excellent article about Microsoft snipped> IŽm impressed. You should post that article on Slashdot :) On the bottom line: I totally agree with you. Bye, LenZ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lenz Grimmer SuSE GmbH mailto:grimmer@suse.de Schanzaeckerstr. 10 http://www.suse.de/~grimmer 90443 Nuernberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
An article I've read informed me that Microsoft is trying to charge US$89 for the bug-fix" service pack for Windows 98. They release something that has so many bugs that they should never have released it in the first place, use the paying customer as unpaid beta testers, and then expect you to pay for the privilege of installing the bug-fix that you helped develop... insane! -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Fonzy wrote:
An article I've read informed me that Microsoft is trying to charge US$89 for the bug-fix" service pack for Windows 98. They release something that has so many bugs that they should never have released it in the first place, use the paying customer as unpaid beta testers, and then expect you to pay for the privilege of installing the bug-fix that you helped develop... insane!
Crazy like a fox! The loonies are the sheep who go along with it! -- Cheers, Bev ****************************************************************** Lusers can neither generalise from the specific, nor apply general rules to specific circumstances. To a luser, the world is a huge mess of disconnected events... No lusers were harmed in the creation of this usenet article. AND I WANT TO KNOW WHY NOT! -- G. Lane -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Bev wrote:
Fonzy wrote:
An article I've read informed me that Microsoft is trying to charge US$89 for the bug-fix" service pack for Windows 98. They release something that has so many bugs that they should never have released it in the first place, use the paying customer as unpaid beta testers, and then expect you to pay for the privilege of installing the bug-fix that you helped develop... insane!
Crazy like a fox! The loonies are the sheep who go along with it!
This article proves Microsoft is the best marketing company in the world. Woe is us if they ever publish a product that is technically sound. I used to own MSFT stock. It made me quite a bit of money, but I sold it - how can I own the stock of a company I detest? Money is not worth THAT much to me. -- George Toft http://gtoft.dynip.com Hawaii Pacific University MSIS Graduate Student "Investigating the Effects of Organization Size, Industry, and Workgroup Size on Server Administration Costs and Downtime." -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Hi, George Toft wrote:
Bev wrote:
Fonzy wrote:
An article I've read informed me that Microsoft is trying to charge US$89 for the bug-fix" service pack for Windows 98. They release something that has so many bugs that they should never have released it in the first place, use the paying customer as unpaid beta testers, and then expect you to pay for the privilege of installing the bug-fix that you helped develop... insane!
Crazy like a fox! The loonies are the sheep who go along with it!
This article proves Microsoft is the best marketing company in the world. Woe is us if they ever publish a product that is technically sound.
I used to own MSFT stock. It made me quite a bit of money, but I sold it - how can I own the stock of a company I detest? Money is not worth THAT much to me.
I trust you donated the profit to charity... ;)
-- George Toft http://gtoft.dynip.com Hawaii Pacific University MSIS Graduate Student "Investigating the Effects of Organization Size, Industry, and Workgroup Size on Server Administration Costs and Downtime."
--
-- = Martijn van den Burg -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Martijn van den Burg wrote:
Hi,
George Toft wrote:
Bev wrote:
Fonzy wrote:
An article I've read informed me that Microsoft is trying to charge US$89 for the bug-fix" service pack for Windows 98. They release something that has so many bugs that they should never have released it in the first place, use the paying customer as unpaid beta testers, and then expect you to pay for the privilege of installing the bug-fix that you helped develop... insane!
Crazy like a fox! The loonies are the sheep who go along with it!
This article proves Microsoft is the best marketing company in the world. Woe is us if they ever publish a product that is technically sound.
I used to own MSFT stock. It made me quite a bit of money, but I sold it - how can I own the stock of a company I detest? Money is not worth THAT much to me.
I trust you donated the profit to charity... ;)
I used it to *offset* purchases of MS-DOS, Win 95, Visual Basic, Visual C++, Money, Office - all those things that are free with Linux. I donated the old software to charity, however. -- George Toft http://gtoft.dynip.com Hawaii Pacific University MSIS Graduate Student "Investigating the Effects of Organization Size, Industry, and Workgroup Size on Server Administration Costs and Downtime." -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
I used it to *offset* purchases of MS-DOS, Win 95, Visual Basic, Visual C++, Money, Office - all those things that are free with Linux. I donated the old software to charity, however.
In order to qualify as a bona fide Robin Hood you should've made multiple copies of all that software and given it away! Personally I'm not going to spend one single dime on m$ software anymore. I have a problem spending my money on m$ software plus the amount of money they ask for it is gettng way out of hand. On top of that they keep adding features that the majority don't even have any use for. Take office 2000 for example. The wole instalation (premium edition I think) needs 1.1Gb of hd space. 1.1Gb!!!!!! That's more than a whole OS!!! That's ridiculous!!!!! Who the f*$%c is going to use all that stuff? Office 2000 standard edition wil set you back a cool $700. Need a database application? Sorry sir, it's not included. But for an additional $150 you'll get the pro edition with m$ access included. For an additional $1000 you'll get two extra apps (frontpage and photodraw) - they call that one the premium edition. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Yatsen Ng wrote:
I used it to *offset* purchases of MS-DOS, Win 95, Visual Basic, Visual C++, Money, Office - all those things that are free with Linux. I donated the old software to charity, however.
In order to qualify as a bona fide Robin Hood you should've made multiple
Even if my name was Robin Hood, I wouldn't admit it here. Microsoft is the staunchest copyright enforcer I know, and I'm not going to incriminate myself. -- George Toft http://gtoft.dynip.com Hawaii Pacific University MSIS Graduate Student "Investigating the Effects of Organization Size, Industry, and Workgroup Size on Server Administration Costs and Downtime." -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
At 11:57 PM 11/2/1999 +0100, Yatsen Ng wrote:
I used it to *offset* purchases of MS-DOS, Win 95, Visual Basic, Visual C++, Money, Office - all those things that are free with Linux. I donated the old software to charity, however.
In order to qualify as a bona fide Robin Hood you should've made multiple copies of all that software and given it away! Personally I'm not going to spend one single dime on m$ software anymore. I have a problem spending my money on m$ software plus the amount of money they ask for it is gettng way out of hand. On top of that they keep adding features that the majority don't even have any use for. Take office 2000 for example. The wole instalation (premium edition I think) needs 1.1Gb of hd space. 1.1Gb!!!!!! That's more
Its the M$ money trad mill , Once you get on , you never get off till you drop and roll of , by then your broke and allbeat up , black and blue. Picked up a P75 with 32 meg ram saterday to replace my burn out 486 66 , what a diffrence , it even has a working S3 video on board with 1 meg ram. It is still usable with 6.2 , no speed deamon , but it works. Now if only I can get a moniter that will work with X. the old PB is almost ten years old. Not much hope for x on that moniter than
a whole OS!!! That's ridiculous!!!!! Who the f*$%c is going to use all that stuff? Office 2000 standard edition wil set you back a cool $700. Need a database application? Sorry sir, it's not included. But for an additional $150 you'll get the pro edition with m$ access included. For an additional $1000 you'll get two extra apps (frontpage and photodraw) - they call that one the premium edition.
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-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
In article <3.0.3.32.19991103094557.01138af8@popd.ix.netcom.com>,
Samy Elashmawy
At 11:57 PM 11/2/1999 +0100, Yatsen Ng wrote:
I'm having trouble installing X on my ancient system here, and it too has an S3 card in it. My system is: Unknown PC with 486 dx2-80. 8MB ram 3gig IDE HD Video card which has a Yakomu sticker on it. What appears to be the main chip on the card is labelled S3. The main problem is that whichever Yakomu/S3 setting I make in SAX, I get a really fuzzy display. So, which setting do you use in SAX to get X going? TTFN Nik -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
At 01:00 PM 11/9/1999 +0100, Nik Gare wrote:
In article <3.0.3.32.19991103094557.01138af8@popd.ix.netcom.com>, Samy Elashmawy
wrote: At 11:57 PM 11/2/1999 +0100, Yatsen Ng wrote:
Hmmm, had a similar problem with a P150 and s3 trio 64 on board vidio , the moniter is a real old hp built in 1990. I got it to work by using xf86cinfig and for the moniter setting choosed the very basic 31.something plian vga 16 color moniter , and the s3_vga16 color driver as well. This hgave a nice workable x window system , al be it slow as vidio only had one meg ram , and it has OLD 1/2 gig drives that are slow , with 32 meg ram. On 8 meg ram , it will be REALYYYYY SLOWWWWWWWW . Dont even think of kde go with XFCE instead , real neet low resouces windowing system. Much more usable and beter than KDE on older limited hardware. A lot of the older moniters just cant handel the newer refresh rates and hrz/verc rates. They give real fuzzy flashing screen. So you will need to use the loweest common denominatoer/real basic driverand moniter selection for the cardd and moniter.
I'm having trouble installing X on my ancient system here, and it too has an S3 card in it. My system is: Unknown PC with 486 dx2-80. 8MB ram 3gig IDE HD Video card which has a Yakomu sticker on it. What appears to be the main chip on the card is labelled S3. The main problem is that whichever Yakomu/S3 setting I make in SAX, I get a really fuzzy display. So, which setting do you use in SAX to get X going?
TTFN Nik
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Nik Gare wrote:
In article <3.0.3.32.19991103094557.01138af8@popd.ix.netcom.com>, Samy Elashmawy
wrote: At 11:57 PM 11/2/1999 +0100, Yatsen Ng wrote:
I'm having trouble installing X on my ancient system here, and it too has an S3 card in it. My system is: Unknown PC with 486 dx2-80. 8MB ram 3gig IDE HD Video card which has a Yakomu sticker on it. What appears to be the main chip on the card is labelled S3. The main problem is that whichever Yakomu/S3 setting I make in SAX, I get a really fuzzy display. So, which setting do you use in SAX to get X going?
TTFN Nik
Does the card display clearly using Windows on the same monitor? Usually, fuzziness is a function of the monitor, not the card. -- George Toft http://gtoft.dynip.com Hawaii Pacific University MSIS Graduate Student "Investigating the Effects of Organization Size, Industry, and Workgroup Size on Server Administration Costs and Downtime." -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
Hello, George! No, you are wrong. Monitor is well. I had the same problem with my RIVA128. It goes with fuzziness, if display refresh rate is high and color resolution is set to 32bit (the same refresh, screen and color resolution are supported with Windows well, without fuzziness). So to Nich I would only advice to reduce either refresh rate, or color depth. Thanks, Egor. -----Original Message----- From: bob@molokai.gtoft.dynip.com [mailto:bob@molokai.gtoft.dynip.com]On Behalf Of George Toft Sent: Mittwoch, 10. November 1999 17:23 To: Nik Gare; suse-linux-e; egm@csie.nsys.by Subject: Re: [SLE] The Great M$ Robbery Nik Gare wrote:
In article <3.0.3.32.19991103094557.01138af8@popd.ix.netcom.com>, Samy Elashmawy
wrote: At 11:57 PM 11/2/1999 +0100, Yatsen Ng wrote:
I'm having trouble installing X on my ancient system here, and it too has an S3 card in it. My system is: Unknown PC with 486 dx2-80. 8MB ram 3gig IDE HD Video card which has a Yakomu sticker on it. What appears to be the main chip on the card is labelled S3. The main problem is that whichever Yakomu/S3 setting I make in SAX, I get a really fuzzy display. So, which setting do you use in SAX to get X going?
TTFN Nik
Does the card display clearly using Windows on the same monitor? Usually, fuzziness is a function of the monitor, not the card. -- George Toft http://gtoft.dynip.com Hawaii Pacific University MSIS Graduate Student "Investigating the Effects of Organization Size, Industry, and Workgroup Size on Server Administration Costs and Downtime." -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/
MIME-Version: 1.0
From: Nik Gare
participants (10)
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bashley@ktb.net
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egm@csie.nsys.by
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fonz@yahoo.com
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grimmer@suse.de
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grtoft@yahoo.com
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Martijn.van.den.Burg@asml.nl
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nik@cheddarcheese.de
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samelash@ix.netcom.com
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vulpus12@hotmail.com
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yatsen.ng@brunel.nl