Interesting issue here that I have never come across before. I have a friend's 2-3 year old Packard Bell PC on the operating table, with an NEC DVD drive as secondary master. He got so annoyed with Windows viruses that he has wanted to try Linux, and I volunteered to do an install. However, if I put in the DVD *or* CD for *any* of SUSE 8.2/9.1/9.2 and boot up to start an install, I get the splash screen (the one with "Welcome" in different languages) and the install then halts. What should happen, of course, is that the menu screen (the one with "Boot from Hard Disk", "Istallation", etc) should pop up almost immediately, but this doesn't happen. (All these disks have been used for various home installs here, so I know there is nothing wrong with the disks themselves.) Knoppix 3.7, Mandrake 10.1 Community, and Fedora Core 3 disks all boot to the installer, so there is obviously something odd about the SUSE disks generically. (In fact, this is the first time in 6 years of using SUSE that I have ever had a SUSE disk fail to boot on a machine!) Interestingly, Knoppix lists the DVD and CD-RW drives as sr0 and sr1, even though they are definitely IDE, so I can't rule out some Packard-Bell BIOS oddness (even though the BIOS settings look OK to me.) Ideally, I would like to install SUSE for him, so does anyone have any suggestions on how I might persuade the recalcitrant installer to appear? -- Pob hwyl (Best wishes) Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - Meddalwedd Rhydd yn Gymraeg www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD!
On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 07:34, Kevin Donnelly wrote:
Interesting issue here that I have never come across before. I have a friend's 2-3 year old Packard Bell PC on the operating table, with an NEC DVD drive as secondary master. He got so annoyed with Windows viruses that he has wanted to try Linux, and I volunteered to do an install.
However, if I put in the DVD *or* CD for *any* of SUSE 8.2/9.1/9.2 and boot up to start an install, I get the splash screen (the one with "Welcome" in different languages) and the install then halts. What should happen, of course, is that the menu screen (the one with "Boot from Hard Disk", "Istallation", etc) should pop up almost immediately, but this doesn't happen. (All these disks have been used for various home installs here, so I know there is nothing wrong with the disks themselves.)
Knoppix 3.7, Mandrake 10.1 Community, and Fedora Core 3 disks all boot to the installer, so there is obviously something odd about the SUSE disks generically. (In fact, this is the first time in 6 years of using SUSE that I have ever had a SUSE disk fail to boot on a machine!) Interestingly, Knoppix lists the DVD and CD-RW drives as sr0 and sr1, even though they are definitely IDE, so I can't rule out some Packard-Bell BIOS oddness (even though the BIOS settings look OK to me.)
Ideally, I would like to install SUSE for him, so does anyone have any suggestions on how I might persuade the recalcitrant installer to appear?
Try using the second CD and see if it will boot to that. There was a different boot kernel on the second CD IIRC. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989 SuSE since 1998 * Only reply to the list please*
On Thursday 16 December 2004 1:28 pm, Ken Schneider wrote:
Try using the second CD and see if it will boot to that. There was a different boot kernel on the second CD IIRC.
I should have mentioned that I tried that too, with the same result. It seems to be something SUSE doesn't like about this PC, but the other distros don't mind. -- Pob hwyl (Best wishes) Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - Meddalwedd Rhydd yn Gymraeg www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD!
On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 08:45, Kevin Donnelly wrote:
On Thursday 16 December 2004 1:28 pm, Ken Schneider wrote:
Try using the second CD and see if it will boot to that. There was a different boot kernel on the second CD IIRC.
I should have mentioned that I tried that too, with the same result. It seems to be something SUSE doesn't like about this PC, but the other distros don't mind. <snip>
Hi Kevin, Since it's on the "operating table" try another drive? regards, - Carl
Kevin Donnelly wrote:
On Thursday 16 December 2004 1:28 pm, Ken Schneider wrote:
Try using the second CD and see if it will boot to that. There was a different boot kernel on the second CD IIRC.
I should have mentioned that I tried that too, with the same result. It seems to be something SUSE doesn't like about this PC, but the other distros don't mind.
Well, you are trying to install on a Packard Bell. Perhaps SuSE has higher standards, than those other distros. ;-)
On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 12:15, James Knott wrote: <snip>
Well, you are trying to install on a Packard Bell. Perhaps SuSE has higher standards, than those other distros. ;-)
My first thought was that SuSE could be employing more stringent pre-installation hardware detections & tests than the other distros. If Knoppix reports the IDE CDRW & DVD drives as sr0 & sr1, maybe SuSE is balking at something in the firmware. Proprietary firmware isn't unusual in OEM equipment like PB, which is why I'd have tried a different drive... probably a generic CD reader instead of something RW. But, then again, you could also be right; SuSE just has higher standards ;-) - Carl
Carl Hartung wrote:
On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 12:15, James Knott wrote:
<snip>
Well, you are trying to install on a Packard Bell. Perhaps SuSE has higher standards, than those other distros. ;-)
My first thought was that SuSE could be employing more stringent pre-installation hardware detections & tests than the other distros.
If Knoppix reports the IDE CDRW & DVD drives as sr0 & sr1, maybe SuSE is balking at something in the firmware. Proprietary firmware isn't unusual in OEM equipment like PB, which is why I'd have tried a different drive... probably a generic CD reader instead of something RW.
But, then again, you could also be right; SuSE just has higher standards ;-)
- Carl
Did you try the diskette boot images on CD1? LeoR
On Thursday 16 December 2004 1:28 pm, Ken Schneider wrote:
On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 07:34, Kevin Donnelly wrote:
Interesting issue here that I have never come across before. I have a friend's 2-3 year old Packard Bell PC on the operating table, with an NEC DVD drive as secondary master. He got so annoyed with Windows viruses that he has wanted to try Linux, and I volunteered to do an install.
However, if I put in the DVD *or* CD for *any* of SUSE 8.2/9.1/9.2 and boot up to start an install, I get the splash screen (the one with "Welcome" in different languages) and the install then halts. What should happen, of course, is that the menu screen (the one with "Boot from Hard Disk", "Istallation", etc) should pop up almost immediately, but this doesn't happen. (All these disks have been used for various home installs here, so I know there is nothing wrong with the disks themselves.)
Knoppix 3.7, Mandrake 10.1 Community, and Fedora Core 3 disks all boot to the installer, so there is obviously something odd about the SUSE disks generically. (In fact, this is the first time in 6 years of using SUSE that I have ever had a SUSE disk fail to boot on a machine!) Interestingly, Knoppix lists the DVD and CD-RW drives as sr0 and sr1, even though they are definitely IDE, so I can't rule out some Packard-Bell BIOS oddness (even though the BIOS settings look OK to me.)
Ideally, I would like to install SUSE for him, so does anyone have any suggestions on how I might persuade the recalcitrant installer to appear?
Try using the second CD and see if it will boot to that. There was a different boot kernel on the second CD IIRC.
Yes, this sort of thing is familiar to me. It hangs as described in the splash screen _before_ attempting to load the kernel, so the kernel is nothing to do with it. I have the problem on most versions with Adaptec SCSI. The workaround is to hold down a shift key while booting, starting just before leaving BIOS. IIRC correctly you then choose a driver. After this, normally the CD boot works, and the installed sytem boots normally. But if the CD/DVD leaves the Welcome screen and does not boot leave it for 5 whole minutes before deciding it does not boot. In this case, the installed system will also take its time to boot, but there is hope, with a self compiled kernel with 1 option change [forgotten what, but it is for graphics support on boot up]. YMMV rgds Vince
On Thursday 16 December 2004 7:14 pm, Vince Littler wrote:
Yes, this sort of thing is familiar to me. It hangs as described in the splash screen _before_ attempting to load the kernel, so the kernel is nothing to do with it. I have the problem on most versions with Adaptec SCSI. The workaround is to hold down a shift key while booting, starting just before leaving BIOS. IIRC correctly you then choose a driver. After this, normally the CD boot works, and the installed sytem boots normally.
I thought you'd cracked it, Vince, but not quite. Holding down the shift key pops me into an options screen, from where I typed "linux" at the boot prompt to do an install. Everything starts up, but coughs when it comes to "Starting YaST". After a failed attempt to do a graphical YaST, it puts me into the ncurses one. I did the install fine from there, but of course then there is a reboot before you get to the graphics setup with SaX, and at the reboot ... yes, you get the "Welcome" splash screen again, and there it hangs. So it is obviously something that SUSE doesn't like about the graphics subsystem on this PC, which seems to be an onboard 3dfx, with no AGP slot to choose anything else. I take James/Carl's point about Packard-Bells not being the best of PCs, but to give this one credit I think it would actually not be too bad for office-type stuff - it's reasonably snappy. It may indeed be some proprietary firmware to do with the onboard graphics, or SUSE being more stringent than other plebeian distros, but I can't avoid a slight feeling of disappointment. The reason I started using SUSE all those years ago was that it seemed to boot on any old stuff, where others failed dismally. But here it is turning up its nose at this PC, and when I have the chance of making a convert too! I'll try Carl's suggestion of another CD drive, and Leo's of the floppy images, tomorrow, but at the minute it's All Other Distros 1, SUSE 0. -- Pob hwyl (Best wishes) Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - Meddalwedd Rhydd yn Gymraeg www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD!
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:33:46 +0000, Kevin Donnelly
On Thursday 16 December 2004 7:14 pm, Vince Littler wrote:
Yes, this sort of thing is familiar to me. It hangs as described in the splash screen _before_ attempting to load the kernel, so the kernel is nothing to do with it. I have the problem on most versions with Adaptec SCSI. The workaround is to hold down a shift key while booting, starting just before leaving BIOS. IIRC correctly you then choose a driver. After this, normally the CD boot works, and the installed sytem boots normally.
I thought you'd cracked it, Vince, but not quite. Holding down the shift key pops me into an options screen, from where I typed "linux" at the boot prompt to do an install. Everything starts up, but coughs when it comes to "Starting YaST". After a failed attempt to do a graphical YaST, it puts me into the ncurses one. I did the install fine from there, but of course then there is a reboot before you get to the graphics setup with SaX, and at the reboot ... yes, you get the "Welcome" splash screen again, and there it hangs. So it is obviously something that SUSE doesn't like about the graphics subsystem on this PC, which seems to be an onboard 3dfx, with no AGP slot to choose anything else.
try to disable the VESA screen, and try to use basic VGA. Like, add boot param vga=0 and boot in runlevel 3 (or 1). then sax2 -l to configure in lowres mode. Sunny -- Get Firefox http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=10745&t=85
On Thursday 16 December 2004 11:06 pm, Sunny wrote:
try to disable the VESA screen, and try to use basic VGA. Like, add boot param vga=0 and boot in runlevel 3 (or 1). then sax2 -l to configure in lowres mode.
The problem was that I couldn't get to a menu screen to allow me to do that :) But I have in fact managed to get SUSE 9.2 up and running. Having got the system installed, but not configured, as per my previous post, I thought I might as well do a trawl of my other Linux distros to see which of them booted OK. Linspire - no, got a LILO error (but I'll check again tomorrow). Next up was a copy of Yoper on a Linux Magazine DVD. In with the CD, boot the PC, and ... say what? a SUSE graphical menu!!?! I selected 9.2 from that and completed the configuration, including the graphics setup. I've rebooted a couple of times, and it seems OK. I'm wondering whether in fact it's somethig to do with the bootloader, but no, that can't be it. Mandrake, Knoppix and (I think) Linspire use LILO, but I think Fedora, like SUSE, uses GRUB. Hmm - more investigations tomorrow. I've just found out the Yoper DVD wasn't in fact bootable, so perhaps its was something to do with taking the disc out. Strange. -- Pob hwyl (Best wishes) Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - Meddalwedd Rhydd yn Gymraeg www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD!
<snip> If Knoppix reports the IDE CDRW & DVD drives as sr0 & sr1, maybe SuSE is balking at something in the firmware. </snip> Perhaps Knoppix enables ide-scsi as a standard option. I think you could get a similar effect with SuSE if you pass that option to the kernel at boot time. So, your CD might not be the one to blame.
On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 18:28, Kevin Donnelly wrote: <snip>
Hmm - more investigations tomorrow. I've just found out the Yoper DVD wasn't in fact bootable, so perhaps its was something to do with taking the disc out. Strange.
Hi Kevin,
Glad to hear you've got it up and running. Now that I think about it,
isn't the normal procedure for SuSE tp a) boot with floppies or cd, b)
install the system then c) **boot** the installed system to finish
configuring it? Isn't there a prompt there somewhere along the way
which reminds you to remove the installation media and re-boot to
continue? Or am I confusing this with something else?
Kevin Donnelly wrote:
On Thursday 16 December 2004 11:06 pm, Sunny wrote:
try to disable the VESA screen, and try to use basic VGA. Like, add boot param vga=0 and boot in runlevel 3 (or 1). then sax2 -l to configure in lowres mode.
The problem was that I couldn't get to a menu screen to allow me to do that :)
But I have in fact managed to get SUSE 9.2 up and running. Having got the system installed, but not configured, as per my previous post, I thought I might as well do a trawl of my other Linux distros to see which of them booted OK. Linspire - no, got a LILO error (but I'll check again tomorrow). Next up was a copy of Yoper on a Linux Magazine DVD. In with the CD, boot the PC, and ... say what? a SUSE graphical menu!!?! I selected 9.2 from that and completed the configuration, including the graphics setup. I've rebooted a couple of times, and it seems OK.
I'm wondering whether in fact it's somethig to do with the bootloader, but no, that can't be it. Mandrake, Knoppix and (I think) Linspire use LILO, but I think Fedora, like SUSE, uses GRUB.
Hmm - more investigations tomorrow. I've just found out the Yoper DVD wasn't in fact bootable, so perhaps its was something to do with taking the disc out. Strange.
9.2 is a strange beast, that's why I'm hanging back from upgrading my daughter's box. I had a heck of a time with the x86_64 install on my laptop and like you experienced, it suddenly worked for no reason I could fathom, on this x86 box, I eventually had to rsync the ATA100 120G drive over to a 160G ATA133 drive and do a fresh install without reformatting the partitions - it didn't like the ATA100 drive I'd been running 9.1 on, on the P-II/333 laptop, it did a fres non-graphical install, but X fired up later without problems. A friend with a new HD had to partially install XP, then he got 9.2 to install, wiped the HD and tried 9.2 with the same result, so eventually he had to partially install XP, install 9.2, wipe XP and he has a stable box. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =====LINUX ONLY USED HERE=====
participants (9)
-
Carl Hartung -
James Knott -
Ken Schneider -
Kevin Donnelly -
LeoRivas -
Predrag Micakovic -
Sid Boyce -
Sunny -
Vince Littler