On 9/20/20 2:17 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 20/09/2020 20.08, DennisG wrote:

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On 9/19/20 2:49 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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On 9/19/20 3:14 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 19/09/2020 09.03, Ianseeks wrote:

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DM>> file:///opt/epson-inkjet-printer-201113w/ppds/Epson DM>> file:///etc/cups/epson-inkjet-printer-201113w/ppds/Epson DM>> file:///usr/share/cups/model/manufacturer-PPDs/epson

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OpenSUSE.  SUSE is the commercial, enterprise system.

You say you have downloaded the Epson driver but "not used it." What about the .rpm discussed in a previous thread?  Or the install.sh script?  So you are saying that you absolutely unequivocally did not install any printer software for that WP-4530 except via YaST/Printer???

YaST does not install on /opt, so he must have done something besides using YaST. Yes, I did. I am going to try and reverse this, and the /opt point is taken and will be followed up. As I mentioned elsewhere, my initial investigation came up empty on drivers for this Epson, so I downloaded the "official" drivers in rpm form and installed the rpm. I will try to reverse that process (rpm -e filename.rpm) and see what happens. I *will* get this printer working somehow! --doug

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On 21/09/2020 01.29, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Doug McGarrett <> [09-20-20 19:08]: [...]

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Yes, I did. I am going to try and reverse this, and the /opt point is taken and will be followed up.

better you present what you *actually* have and ask for instruction rather that continue down a slippery slope.

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As I mentioned elsewhere, my initial investigation came up empty on drivers for this Epson, so I downloaded the "official" drivers in rpm form and installed the rpm.

what is the definition of "official" as currently that has absolutely no context and does not define your current situation.

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I will try to reverse that process (rpm -e filename.rpm) and see what happens.

again, present your environment and *ask* for instruciton.

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I *will* get this printer working somehow!

not if you continue as is.

Agree to all. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 21/09/2020 14.34, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 20/09/2020 19:29, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Doug McGarrett [09-20-20 19:08]:

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I will try to reverse that process (rpm -e filename.rpm) and see what happens.

Eh?

You install a PACKAGEFILE, you remove a PACKAGENAME.

You can use: rpm -qf /path/to/filename which will respond with packagename that corresponds to that filename.

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again, present your environment and *ask* for instruciton.

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I *will* get this printer working somehow!

not if you continue as is.

Agreed. There's lots of small things Doug is mis-saying that indicative of wrong paths, that indicate to me a lack of understanding.

Doug should use a notebook, take notes of each step. Or keep the log from the terminal.

Installing into /opt, for example. Sometimes going things with YaST, other times doing it 'manually', bypassing, possibly subverting Yast.

/opt would be typical of a proprietary package or install program.

Truth to tell, I never use Yast for my printer work, I always use the web interface to CUPS.  OK, so after having used the Bell labs SVR4.2 printer system on a corporate network, I don't think much of CUPS, but that's a side issue.

YaST is good to install printers the first time because it can automatically install missing packages. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 21/09/2020 19.26, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Carlos E. R. [09-21-20 13:24]:

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On 21/09/2020 14.34, Anton Aylward wrote:

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On 20/09/2020 19:29, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Doug McGarrett [09-20-20 19:08]:

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I will try to reverse that process (rpm -e filename.rpm) and see what happens.

Eh?

You install a PACKAGEFILE, you remove a PACKAGENAME.

You can use:

rpm -qf /path/to/filename

which will respond with

packagename

that corresponds to that filename.

rpm -e `rpm -qf <path><to><filename>`

I prefer not to do that, in order that Doug sees the name of the package first. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 21/09/2020 19.50, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 21/09/2020 13:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 21/09/2020 14.34, Anton Aylward wrote:

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On 20/09/2020 19:29, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Doug McGarrett <> [09-20-20 19:08]:

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I will try to reverse that process (rpm -e filename.rpm) and see what happens.

Eh?

You install a PACKAGEFILE, you remove a PACKAGENAME.

You can use:

   rpm -qf /path/to/filename

which will respond with

  packagename

that corresponds to that filename.

In this instance, yes, but you can't always rely on that. It's a convenience to name the package as the basename of the RPM file from which it is installed, but you can't use the full filename when it comes to removing the package.

In the case of the command I printed, it matches always, you can rely on it. "/path/to/filename" is one installed file, and the query answers what package it came in.

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Doug should use a notebook, take notes of each step. Or keep the log from the terminal.

Indeed.

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Installing into /opt, for example. Sometimes going things with YaST, other times doing it 'manually', bypassing, possibly subverting Yast.

/opt would be typical of a proprietary package or install program.

Indeed, but but let's differentiate between the specific and the generic in this discussion.

What I said is generic...

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Truth to tell, I never use Yast for my printer work, I always use the web interface to CUPS.  OK, so after having used the Bell labs SVR4.2 printer system on a corporate network, I don't think much of CUPS, but that's a side issue.

YaST is good to install printers the first time because it can automatically install missing packages.

Which Zypper can do and the rpm programme cannot do. Another reason I don't use the rpm program.

No, I'm talking about using the printer configuration module of YaST. You need a coffee ;-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 9/20/20 7:06 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote:

On 9/20/20 2:17 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 20/09/2020 20.08, DennisG wrote:

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On 9/19/20 2:49 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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On 9/19/20 3:14 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 19/09/2020 09.03, Ianseeks wrote:

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DM>> file:///opt/epson-inkjet-printer-201113w/ppds/Epson DM>> file:///etc/cups/epson-inkjet-printer-201113w/ppds/Epson DM>> file:///usr/share/cups/model/manufacturer-PPDs/epson

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OpenSUSE.  SUSE is the commercial, enterprise system.

You say you have downloaded the Epson driver but "not used it." What about the .rpm discussed in a previous thread?  Or the install.sh script?  So you are saying that you absolutely unequivocally did not install any printer software for that WP-4530 except via YaST/Printer???

YaST does not install on /opt, so he must have done something besides using YaST. Yes, I did. I am going to try and reverse this, and the /opt point is taken and will be followed up. As I mentioned elsewhere, my initial investigation came up empty on drivers for this Epson, so I downloaded the "official" drivers in rpm form and installed the rpm. I will try to reverse that process (rpm -e filename.rpm) and see what happens. I *will* get this printer working somehow! --doug

I ran the rpm -e command for the file I had downloaded, and the system told me "not installed" --I'm not sure I believe that. I ran a KFind app on Epson, and got quite a list. I will attempt to paste the result at http://paste.opensuse.org/home/doug.epson list from KFind if that didn't work, then it's because I've never done that before, and I've obviously missed something. --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 20/09/2020 20:24, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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I ran the rpm -e command for the file I had downloaded, and the system told me "not installed" --I'm not sure I believe that.

Yes. You install a file, you remove a package. One of the reasons I use Zypper rather than rpm is to avoid this sort of nonsense. Zypper makes sure all the dependencies are matched up and notifies you about anything else that needs to be added or removed to maintain a stable system. A file might contain more than one package, though I can't think of an actual example off hand. If you refer to the file as you have done which package to remove? Also, the name of the file might have nothing to do with the name of the package. Suppose you have a file 'package.rpm' that contains a package named 'Package1'. Now rename the file to 'Razzamatazz.oolong'. If you run rpm -i --file Razzamatazz.oolong it will install Package1, but rpm -e --file Razzamatazz.oolong WILL NOT uninstall Package1 Yes, it's nice to have RPM file names based on the package they contain, but that's an artifice of people who know more about packaging and expect users to make use of the appropriate level of tools to match their knowledge. In many ways, using 'rpm' is like using assembler when you have high level languages like Python that check types and syntax and grammar. One line of the HLL/interpreter translates to many lines of ASM. Or in this case, many lines of which the rpm command (or its library equivalent) is just one. If we follow the analogy, Zypper is like using C or C++. It's still a HLL but you have a pretty good idea of how it 'translates' to lower level. By the time we get to Yast we're layering on top of and application written in a OO-HLL, Ruby. I've done enough Ruby-on-Rails to be familiar with Ruby, but the OO model that the Yast developers have implemented is unintelligible to me. More layering, more abstraction. Perhaps there is a flavour of 'you're not supposed to know' in all this. So I settle for using Zypper. -- "The greatest of all faults is to be conscious of none. Recognizing our limitations & imperfections is the first requisite of progress. Those who believe they have "arrived" believe they have nowhere to go. Some not only have closed their minds to new truth, but they sit on the lid." -- Dale Turner. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 21/09/2020 10:27, Dave Howorth wrote:

On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 09:08:50 -0400 Anton Aylward wrote:

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On 20/09/2020 20:24, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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I ran the rpm -e command for the file I had downloaded, and the system told me "not installed" --I'm not sure I believe that.

Yes. You install a file, you remove a package.

One of the reasons I use Zypper rather than rpm is to avoid this sort of nonsense. Zypper makes sure all the dependencies are matched up and notifies you about anything else that needs to be added or removed to maintain a stable system.

A file might contain more than one package, though I can't think of an actual example off hand. If you refer to the file as you have done which package to remove?

Eh? I understand that a package might contain more than one file. But files don't contain packages at all; they are contained by packages. I think it would bevanishingly rare for the same file to be part of more than one package - in that circumstance I'd expect the packages to be split so the common file is in a third package. So what do you actually mean?

You suggester "rpm -e filename.rpm" What is "filename.rpm" if not a file? Files contain packages contain files... contain ... what? What are TAR files, ZIP files and CPIO files if not structures ways of containing files that also contain the necessary metadata for unpacking and/or relocating them? What is a file system if not a way of packaging files? An RPM file might contain more than one package as far as installation goes. I look at the specs and can't see why not. Yes each package is the 'packaging' and the metadata' and might result in separate entities in the RPM database. On the face of it, yes it seems ridiculous, but it appears to be to be within the possibility of the specification. So you can't use the filename, certain not with the ".rpm" extension, to remove a package. Maybe rpm will accept the basename. Maybe. But how much of the basename? You might have installed, for example, rpm -i -f yast2-printer-4.1.1-lp151.1.1.x86_64.rpm but are you going to remove rpm -e -f yast2-printer-4.1.1-lp151.1.1.x86_64.rpm or rpm -e -f yast2-printer The first won't work, the second will. The file "yast2-printer-4.1.1-lp151.1.1.x86_64.rpm" contains the package "yast2-printer" at revision level 4.1.1 for an x86 64 bit installation of leap 15.1 The file NAME encodes the metadata so you can have multiple RPM files in a disk directory (aka folder) as some people do to organise such things. There is no mandate that you have to name your own files that way, and I suppose some vendors aren't going to follow that convention. Renaming the file 'Razzamatazz.oolong' doesn't alter what's inside it, it's the same package, but using the basename 'Razzamatazz' won't get you anywhere. Don't assume as universal things that happen to be incidental. You install FROM a file to make an entry in the database. (At that point you can safely delete the file.) You uninstall with reference to what's in the database, which is the package name.

Ah, maybe you're talking about RPM files? But even then, they only have a single package name.

Maybe. It is not a requirement, certainly not one all vendors follow. As I say...

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Also, the name of the file might have nothing to do with the name of the package. Suppose you have a file 'package.rpm' that contains a package named 'Package1'. Now rename the file to 'Razzamatazz.oolong'.

If you run rpm -i --file Razzamatazz.oolong it will install Package1,

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Yes, it's nice to have RPM file names based on the package they contain, but that's an artifice of people who know more about packaging and expect users to make use of the appropriate level of tools to match their knowledge.

It is also, as I mention, convenient for archiving purposes. You can store yast2-printer-4.1.1-lp151.1.1.x86_64.rpm yast2-printer-4.1.1-lp151.1.1.src.rpm yast2-printer-4.1.0-lp151.1.1.x86_64.rpm yast2-printer-4.1.0-lp151.1.1.src.rpm yast2-printer-3.8.2-lp150.1.1.x86_64.rpm yast2-printer-3.8.2-lp150.1.1.src.rpm All in the same directory. And more for other architectures and releases. But all the x86_64 packages will install a version of the package yast2-printer. that's the way upgrades work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 9/21/20 4:25 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 21/09/2020 20.50, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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I appreciate the information you folks have been providing. I am trying now to clean up the filesystem of downloaded epson files. It sort of looks like the third instance listed above is the original OpenSuse directory, but  there are only unfamiliar filenames in it. A typical example: epin4000.ppd.gz. Is this an original OS file? Someone out there please look and see if this is what you have in your TW system? If it is, I will delete any epson files in the first two:  /opt... and /etc/cups...

You are going the wrong way. You don't have to delete the files you see, instead you have to uninstall the rpm package they came in, whose name you do not see.

As I said in a previous note, I did "rpm -e" to the rpms listed in my download file, and got the answer that there was nothing to be done. --doug

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I apologize for making this mess. I was used to a less automated OS, and am just getting used to yast. (In the meantime, I will utilize the remove feature of yast and delete the epson printer that is not working, and await the results of this message before continuing.) --doug

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On 9/21/20 7:34 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Doug McGarrett [09-21-20 19:21]:

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On 9/21/20 4:25 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 21/09/2020 20.50, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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/snip/ You are going the wrong way. You don't have to delete the files you see, instead you have to uninstall the rpm package they came in, whose name you do not see.

As I said in a previous note, I did "rpm -e" to the rpms listed in my download file, and got the answer that there was nothing to be done.

which was the answer you should have received as you didn't use the correct procedure. you must uninstall the rpm package, not one of the files contained withing the package. you are borking your system. and you just continue to do so. Alright, how?

--dm

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On 21/09/2020 21:50, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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which was the answer you should have received as you didn't use the correct procedure.  you must uninstall the rpm package, not one of the files contained withing the package.  you are borking your system.  and you just continue to do so.

Alright, how?

Carlos has told you how to identify the PACKAGE NAME given one of the files that were installed. if you read the man page on "rpm" you will see that while it uses PACKAGE FILE for installation it uses PACKAGE NAME for erasure/removal. NAME not FILE The NAMED package is what was in the FILE. That's _package_! Not files, but _package_. For ${DEITY}'s sake, why can't people who aspire to be programmers or administrators of computer system read "Alice in Wonderland" and Alfred Korzybski. "The map is not the territory". The name of the thing is not the thing. The name of a RPM file is not the content, which is a CPIO file and some metadata anyway, and it's only when processed (aka interpreted) do you get the package. The container of the thing, not matter how it is named, is not the thing either. The file is not the process. And the file _name_ certainly isn't. A reference to name of the thing isn't the thing either! the problem is that we use names, labels, references indiscriminately. And it confuses the heck out of neophytes. As this thread is demonstrating. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 9/21/20 7:14 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote:

On 9/21/20 4:25 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 21/09/2020 20.50, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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I appreciate the information you folks have been providing. I am trying now to clean up the filesystem of downloaded epson files. It sort of looks like the third instance listed above is the original OpenSuse directory, but  there are only unfamiliar filenames in it. A typical example: epin4000.ppd.gz. Is this an original OS file? Someone out there please look and see if this is what you have in your TW system? If it is, I will delete any epson files in the first two:  /opt... and /etc/cups...

You are going the wrong way. You don't have to delete the files you see, instead you have to uninstall the rpm package they came in, whose name you do not see.

As I said in a previous note, I did "rpm -e" to the rpms listed in my download file, and got the answer that there was nothing to be done.

OK,  I *think* I cleaned up the mess, but ? I'm trying to get yast to install my printers, but I guess I don't understand the language. Failed to set BrowsePoll value(s) 'HP-m201 epson-WP4530' in /etc/cups/cupsd.conf I have no idea what this means. Maybe I overlooked something. Trying again for the umteenth time. . . . (I tried automatic configuration, and it can't find my printers.) Print via network (I do NOT wish to share printers--the other computers on the network have their own drivers and they WORK.) (checked) Accept Printer Announcements frm CUPS Servers accept from all hosts in the local network (selected) Additional IP Addresses or Network/Netmask (separated by space) 192.168.1.26 192.168.1.29 [ first is Epson, second is HP] Qt this point, I checked "Request Printer Information from CUPS servers" and the previous input changed Polled CUPS server names or IP addresses (separated by space) Connection Wizard (selected) Connection Type (At this point, I get multiple options, which I don't know what to do with! Help!) Access Network Printer or Printserver Box via [possibilities:] TCP Port (AppSockert/JetDirect Line Printer Daemon (LPD) Protocol Internet Printing Protocol )IPP) Print via Print Server Machine (what's that?) (As a reminder to the reader, I have the Epson WP4530 all-in-one and the HP LaserJet m201, both on the LAN. They both print perfectly from other Linux computers, set up about 2015. I was fortunate to have someone to write the instructions for both printers, nothing automatic. [PCLOS].) I have been thru all of the multiple options except the last—Connection type—and generally get part way thru and the screen clears back to a blank beginning. If I had any hair left I'd tear it out! --doug

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On 21/09/2020 20:36, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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(As a reminder to the reader, I have the Epson WP4530 all-in-one and the HP LaserJet m201, both on the LAN. They both print

perfectly from other Linux computers, set up about 2015. I was fortunate to have someone to write the instructions for both

printers, nothing automatic. [PCLOS].)

More than one other Linux computer? Well there's a solution. Stop trying to print from this computer, use the print subsystem to redirect to one of the computers that does address the devices successfully. You would save me a lot of trouble if you would tell me how to do that. I was just about to take the advice of a number of correspondents and wipe the whole system and restart. I would really not like to have to do so, as it took over a week just to get the things I want into the machine. It's a crutch, of course, and maybe I should just bite the bullet and do so. The crutch relies on the other computer to be on line, and

On 9/22/20 7:10 AM, Anton Aylward wrote: the one that is more nearly up-to-date is a laptop. The desktop is older and clumsier. Neither can be updated; the OS is obsolete. --doug

As someone once said, most problems in computing can be solved by adding a level of indirection.

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