On Monday 23 August 2004 11:22 am, Matt T. Duval wrote:

If you spent half the time looking for a job as you do on this list you might find one. . . Tom Nielsen wrote: Whoa! Dude! That was wayyyyy uncool!!!! I have to say that I am not one for getting personal, but I have a couple friends on this site that don't have a job and give valuable input on here everyday.....for which I am very grateful. . . . Matt, I do not know if you are in HR or a manager appointing people, but if you are, you are unprofessional, and if you are not, would like to know how can you make statements like that. It would have been far better if you mailed Jim in private.

Rudolf

On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 23:50, Matt T. Duval wrote:

Yawn, I do not want to get into a "flame" war, but the reality is that he is the one posting it all over the place, publicly. If he wanted it private he wouldn't have posted anything about it. Besides if it were me, I would want to know that my resume sucked and I would be thankful for the advice. If you or anyone else can't handle some criticism you have some growing up to do.

Matt, You have to work with me on this one, and I will explain it slowly so that you do not fall asleep (again). 1. You did not criticize me, you criticized Jim's CV. 2. Yes, most people can take constructive criticism, but the manner how you tell it to them is important, i.e. I think you are a little birdbrain because you do not understand simple and easy to understand questions, but see, it is only my personal opinion and nobody needs to know. 3. No need to e-mail me and the list. Have a good live Rudolf

Jim wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] Networking question' on Tue, Aug 24 at 11:27:

Matt T. Duval wrote:

...

If you spent half the time looking for a job as you do on this list you might find one. Also your resume is sadly in need of repair. You list 4 job positions in your opening statement. Does the word desperate come to mind? Especially when 1 of the 4 is "...or other appropriate position..." You also say "...delivered multimillion dollar projects..." and then list as your first skill "PC setup."

As I said, I welcome all suggestions. My resume has gone through numerous mutations since I've been looking. The latest one was worked over pretty good by a recruiter that got me an interview at J&J in NJ. They loved it, as have a few other companies. I don't like it myself, but it appears to appeal to corporate types, who like PC setup. I'm astonished at the positive comments I've gotten on my resume.

I'll toss in here that, while I read all resumes submitted for jobs that we advertise, I know some who throw them out if they're more than a couple of pages long (you get 3 pages - 1 cover letter and maybe 2 resume) or if the resume doesn't look like the "standard" resume (brief summary of education, work experience, and skills). Personally, I like having the "short story" version, as it helps me more easily filter out who is a good potential for an interviwe v/s who isn't. I'm much more likely to pick someone who's "almost" there with a story than someone who makes me guess with their resume. Yours is darned long, though. Trim it down. I'd be bored by the third page and skip the rest. :) Just MHO, of course.

I spend time here because I spend a lot of time pushing my Linux skills, disputable as they may be. I keep trying to push myself into new technologies (to me anyway) so I can list them as skills. Quite honestly, I've learned an enormous amount on this list and even get to return the favor by helping others sometimes. It's not easy picking up skills in relative isolation; the internet is a wonderful tool. This seems like a better use of free time than lots of other things I could think of.

And this is why I'm posting to the list. Developing skills on your own time is far and away the best way to learn. I learned a lot of technologies by being my own sysadmni at home, running a full blown web server, sendmail (which is now postfix), LDAP server, NIS before that, etc. All sorts of overkill that I didn't really need as a home user, but that I wanted to learn about. Guess who got a good job before finishing his degree? Hint - it's not the person who read some books and never spent time actually using technology... It's the person who went to user group meetings and just listened. All of that stuff that went over my head at first wasn't lost - it was put away on the list of "things that I don't know yet". IMHO, there's quite a lot to be gained from more completely knowing what you don't know. If you don't know what you could know, then you'll probably never know as much as you could know. --Danny, rambling...

On Wednesday 25 August 2004 00:19, Jim Sabatke wrote:

Believe it or not, I completely agree. I had a page and a half one for the longest time. Recruiters kept telling me that with my experience it should be 4 - 5 pages long. I finally gave in. I have to rework it anyway and I'm going back to the short version. I never read them past the first page either when I was hiring.

I only am mentioning this on the list because I really am "desperate" and I really do welcome any input.

Here's my input: when you do find a job, remember me

...

Yours is darned long, though.  Trim it down.  I'd be bored by the third page and skip the rest. :)  Just MHO, of course. A couple jobs ago I was in charge with doing initial findings for a CFO for our company. I had to make a Top5 recommendation. In doing so I had to go

Lots of recruiters in the UK use keyword searching so I have been advised by a few friends who worked as recruiters both for employment agencies, head hunters or in personnel departments for a while, to put a skills section on the top of the 1st page of my 2 page CV. I have also been told to put all experience that is not academic under employment whether the job was voluntary or not. I have basically been told to do: 1. name and contact details 2. personal statement 3. skills-technical and business 4. employment 5. education 6. anything else including personal details not part of contact details e.g. my sex, dob, other qualifications, hobbies AND to fit this on two pages in a reasonable size font with lots of white space. Lots of people argue whether its relevant to include hobbies, but I know personally of someone who only got a job because they had the same hobby as the person who interviewed them who was their immediate boss. The ones who worked for head hunters or agencies use to tell candidates with long CVs to cut them down otherwise they couldn't put them forward for a job as they knew they would automatically be rejected. The two that worked in HR departments simply put very long CVs in the rejection pile, and one of these worked for a large company. Olly NB By the way none of them work in recruitment of any form anymore as they described the job as soul destroying. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Nielsen [mailto:tom@neuro-logic.com] Sent: 24 August 2004 23:32 To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Networking question On Tuesday 24 August 2004 3:19 pm, Jim Sabatke wrote: through over 400 resumes in less than a week. I hate to say it, but I just started looking at the format and length and I made my first cut based on that. As I started going through them I noticed that the really good guys had a certain look about their resumes. I ended up doing the same for mine and had a lot of compliments from it. The key I found was to keep it short and sweet. One line per item if possible. Keep in mind folks doing the hiring have to look at hundreds of these and that they don't want to read a lot.....unless they are really big companies and use OCR with keywords. -- Tom Nielsen Neuro Logic Systems, Inc. 1.805.389.5435 x18 www.neuro-logic.com -- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004