2008/11/1 Jerry Houston :

On Friday 31 October 2008 23:53:30 Joe Morris wrote:

...

This is just a heads up. I was just trying again to find the cause of the slowness of Thunderbird to open bigger emails. A 5 meg email would take several minutes and high CPU load to open a message...

I'm glad you came up with a good solution for your email problems. I found another one that might appeal to you as well.

I read a very complimentary review of the KDE4 KMail client, and figured I'd give it a try. I've used Thunderbird for years on Windows and Linux machines, and I like it a lot, but it's got some warts that have been with us for far too long. It seemed like something else might be worth a try.

Indeed, so far, I'm thrilled with KMail. It has a cleaner UI, IMHO, and good features that are implemented well. For example, my list replies go to the list if I simply "Reply" to a list message. And the editor doesn't insert and remove newlines at random. And it doesn't keep telling me that "Thunderbird thinks this message is spam" for every weather forecast I get, despite all the times I've clicked the "not spam" button. It just seems a lot cleaner, and more intelligently put together.

You might find you like it better, too, and it's probably already installed. If you select the "leave messages on server" option, you can give it a try without interfering with your Thunderbird message store.

Kmail is great, but I use Tbird for the same reason that I use Firefox: extendability. Web browsing and email are very personalized activities, and the ability to add extensions is important. For instance, though I much prefer Kmail (and use Kontact for everything else), this extension has me married to Thunderbird: https://addons.mozilla.org/he/thunderbird/addon/594 (I cannot get the English version here) This extension lets me assign a different email address to each contact. This way I know who leaked my email address to the spammers, and I can cancel addresses that receive spam. Of course, using it like I do requires that one have their own domain name with a catchall email address. Until Kmail can do this, I am stuck on Thunderbird. Here are the two Kmail bugs: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33670 http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159251 And two more that are relevant: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72926 http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104071 -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü N�����r��y隊Z)z{.�ﮞ˛���m�)z{.��+�Z+i�b�*'jW(�f�vǦj)h���Ǿ��i�������

2008/11/1 John Andersen :

On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

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Nothing.... Or so it would seem.

If I go to the list archives I can see what you wrote...

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2008-11/msg00076.html

However, in Gmail your thunderbird seems to be sending blank messages. It does that a lot. There appears no text in the Gmail web interface.

Imap download from Gmail works fine.

In the Gmail web interface (using firefox) I see an empty message. If I request gmail to "show original" I see something like this

That is interesting. Recently on the Debian list (I have an Ubuntu laptop) someone reported to me the same issue. It seems to have been confined to his system only, as others could read my messages. Note that my mailing list mail I send from gmail via the web interface, in Firefox 3. Gmail may be baseencoding due to the unicode in my sig, but it doesn't _always_ do that. In fact, it may happen in transit, I've seen that before. But as we are both using gmail this issue should be reported to them. It is beta, no? I have searched the Gmail Help but could find neither a known issue about this, nor a place to report it. So I filled out the survey and mentioned the problem there. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü N�����r��y隊Z)z{.�ﮞ˛���m�)z{.��+�Z+i�b�*'jW(�f�vǦj)h���Ǿ��i�������

On Saturday 01 November 2008 12:28:33 Anne Wilson wrote:

On Saturday 01 November 2008 18:42:33 Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

I have searched the Gmail Help but could find neither a known issue about this, nor a place to report it. So I filled out the survey and mentioned the problem there.

Lack of easy reporting of problems is one of the biggest problems with gmail, IMO

 I have a problem with storing my emails permanently on a server owned by a  company who makes a living out of examining the contents of personal emails.     And some folks are even using Google for their office word processing,  images, and business spreadsheets.   Incredible. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 01 November 2008 20:31:28 Dotan Cohen wrote:

2008/11/1 Jerry Houston :

...

I have a problem with storing my emails permanently on a server owned by a company who makes a living out of examining the contents of personal emails.

I only use Gmail for mailing list mail. My personal server handles my personal and work mail.

I've found it a very useful backup, when I'm having mail problems. I just wish I could set an expiry date - say delete everything over 3 months old - but it doesn't seem possible. When I asked on the forum I was rubbished, being told that I could store a life-time's mail. The fact that I didn't want to seemed irrelevant to the people on the forum. Anne

On Saturday 01 November 2008 22:41:48 John Andersen wrote:

Anne Wilson wrote:

...

On Saturday 01 November 2008 20:31:28 Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

2008/11/1 Jerry Houston :

...

I have a problem with storing my emails permanently on a server owned by a company who makes a living out of examining the contents of personal emails.

I only use Gmail for mailing list mail. My personal server handles my personal and work mail.

I've found it a very useful backup, when I'm having mail problems. I just wish I could set an expiry date - say delete everything over 3 months old - but it doesn't seem possible. When I asked on the forum I was rubbished, being told that I could store a life-time's mail. The fact that I didn't want to seemed irrelevant to the people on the forum.

Anne

You can delete mail.

Sure, but to keep it under control I'd have to do it every day, since a couple of hundred messages go through that account each day. As it is, I've many thousands of messages, most of which I will never want to see again, and I can't get rid of them without devoting many hours of effort.

You can set up auto forwarding which deletes Gmails copy.

I did this for a while, but then I had a procmail error which caused me to lose some mail. Since then I've elected to leave the copy on the server. If there was any way, automated or not, to select by date I would be happy that I could control it.

Deleted mail goes to trash. Trash is emptied 30 days after arrival, unless you go there manually and delete it sooner. You are correct does not seem to be an automated way to purge trash on your chosen time frame.

Of course, there are those who believe that even emptying the trash does not, in fact, delete the mail entirely. I don't believe its possible to argue with such folks because nothing you say will prove that there remains no copy somewhere, and such people will not take anyones word or written statement to the contrary.

Still, its good enough for Mailing list traffic.

Yes. I see it as a personal responsibility to do a risk assessment. If nothing private ever goes through the account, or if the only private mail is encrypted, then I'm happy that there is no significant risk to me. Anne

On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

Gmail may be baseencoding due to the unicode in my sig, but it doesn't _always_ do that. In fact, it may happen in transit, I've seen that before. But as we are both using gmail this issue should be reported to them. It is beta, no?

Well one would think they would be able to un-base-encode their own encoding, unless there is some country code specifics involved. The mail I am replying to arrived fine. But I can' tell if Gmail decided to show me the copy you sent direct, or the list copy. It has all that magic unduplication going on. Your replies to other lists postings seem to exhibit the problem. You might try with a different sig, or perhaps a english only sig since its an english list. I assumed it was thunderbird since that was the thread topic. -- ----------JSA--------- Someone stole my tag line, so now I have this rental. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2008-11-01 at 11:06 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Dotan Cohen <@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Nothing.... Or so it would seem.

If I go to the list archives I can see what you wrote...

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2008-11/msg00076.html

However, in Gmail your thunderbird seems to be sending blank messages. It does that a lot. There appears no text in the Gmail web interface.

This is a known bug of gmail. Borrowing info from someone in the Spanish list, it happens because gmail encodes messages with utf-8 text as base64, and then opensusse list server (mlmmj) adds a text part with the unsusbscribe address. This combination can not be handled by GMail webmail and is well known. You can find some references here: http://mlmmj.mmj.dk/archives/mlmmj/2007-12/1228.html http://bugs.gentoo.org/173159 - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkNjggACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UylgCcCJH35JfC/y/WrIKucDuZrbd2 n0gAn22e4sMlfF7HXz+FIkkjxvVcvNSK =/eiy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2008-11-02 at 14:09 -0800, John Andersen wrote:

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This is a known bug of gmail.

Borrowing info from someone in the Spanish list, it happens because gmail encodes messages with utf-8 text as base64, and then opensusse list server (mlmmj) adds a text part with the unsusbscribe address. This combination can not be handled by GMail webmail and is well known.

Hmmm, so the the attachment of his sig in utf8 seems to be problematic only when relayed via Opensuse to users of the web interface.

Those who pop/imap gmail have no problem. Interesting.

It is a problem if someone sends an email from gmail webmail's to the list and then it is also seen on the webmail. If you use something else to view the email (ie, you download it via imap or pop3) then there is no problem, which means that the bug is in the webmail viewer. It is not his attachment that causes the problem. His sig triggers gmail encoding the email in utf and base64. So far so good. But then the list server adds a text to the bottom, as plain text. You can see this by looking at the source email with "less", for instance. It goes like this: ******************** MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline References: <490BFCEA.60807@ntm.org> <200811010851.32549.Jerry@effjayare.net> Reply-To: "OS-en" Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 MjAwOC8xMS8xIEplcnJ5IEhvdXN0b24gPEplcnJ5QGVmZmpheWFyZS5uZXQ+Ogo+IE9uIEZyaWRh eSAzMSBPY3RvYmVyIDIwMDggMjM6NTM6MzAgSm9lIE1vcnJpcyB3cm90ZToKPj4gVGhpcyBpcyBq dXN0IGEgaGVhZHMgdXAuICBJIHdhcyBqdXN0IHRyeWluZyBhZ2FpbiB0byBmaW5kIHRoZSBjYXVz ... L2dpYmJlcmlzaC5jby5pbArXkC3XkS3Xki3Xky3XlC3XlS3Xli3Xly3XmC3XmS3Xmi3Xmy3XnC3X nS3Xni3Xny3XoC3XoS3Xoi3Xoy3XpC3XpS3Xpi3Xpy3XqC3XqS3XqgoKw6Qtw7Ytw7wtw58tw4Qt w5Ytw5wK - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org ******************** It is this combination of three factors that triggers the problem. Good and proven mail clients have no problem, but gmail webmail's has. So gmail webmail's users have to live with this, and hope that gmail solves it. My recomendation is to open gmail, click help, click "reading", then "Messages aren't displaying properly", then to "Review our known issues page", there to "Composing and Reading Mail", then to the bottom, at "Don't see your issue listed above?", select the topic "reading email" or "encoding", where you reach the "Reporting a new issue" page. And go ahead, report it. I just did. If more people report it, they may try to solve it. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkORyYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UjBgCfecY51g6LEIdnWasoUEhpN2ZT GUIAn0DCdgspFUOE1GfFFPvAZzhbf9gA =Zna0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2008-11-03 at 10:14 -0000, Anne Wilson wrote:

I normally read in kmail and have seen no problem, so after I read this I went to firefox and read the message in gmail's web interface. Not only could I read Dotan's message, but the signature also displays correctly.

It still shows empty in my gmail webmail. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkO464ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9X8ngCfQCFYuJVXTFWkMJnlQBlQAaRC 8DMAniIBn16Q6WpTRilboBD/8puWxRhU =Yiy3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Masaru Nomiya wrote:

Hello,

In the Message;

Subject : Re: [opensuse] Gmail shows empty emails [Was: Thunderbird, Reply-to List 3.0, and slowness opening large emails] Message-ID : Date & Time: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:42:36 +0100 (CET)

"Carlos E. R." has written:

...

On Monday, 2008-11-03 at 10:14 -0000, Anne Wilson wrote:

...

...

I normally read in kmail and have seen no problem, so after I read this I went to firefox and read the message in gmail's web interface. Not only could I read Dotan's message, but the signature also displays correctly.

...

It still shows empty in my gmail webmail.

The gmail webmail's behaviour is entirely correct.

Why do you assert that the webmail behaviour is correct? Based on which RFC? Where is it specified that you can't have a plain text attachment to a base64 mail body, or that all attachments must be encoded identically? Why does every other mail client work? If Dotan wants his messages to be readable by gmail web client users he can delete the sig for the list and post in plain text asthe rest of the list members do. Its an english list, why have a Hebrew Sig? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2008/11/2 Fernando Costa :

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Kmail is great, but I use Tbird for the same reason that I use Firefox: extendability. Web browsing and email are very personalized activities, and the ability to add extensions is important. For instance, though I much prefer Kmail (and use Kontact for everything else), this extension has me married to Thunderbird: https://addons.mozilla.org/he/thunderbird/addon/594 (I cannot get the English version here)

This extension lets me assign a different email address to each contact. This way I know who leaked my email address to the spammers, and I can cancel addresses that receive spam. Of course, using it like I do requires that one have their own domain name with a catchall email address. Until Kmail can do this, I am stuck on Thunderbird. Here are the two Kmail bugs: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33670 http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159251

And two more that are relevant: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72926 http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104071

Hi all!

Do someone know where can I find a tutorial for this thunderbird extension? I have installed it but I'm not sure how to use it, my main concern is to be able to send mails on behalf of someone.

Thanks, in advance...

Just edit the From line in the Compose Mail window. In order to avoid hijacking this thread, start a new thread and cc me so I don't miss it. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü