Tumbleweed - initrd rebuilt, but reboot not suggested?
I really don't dabble much with Tumbleweed, so this might be a stupid question. On my newly dup'ed system "office24", I just ran another zypper dup - the output is here: https://files.jessen.ch/office24.zypperdup.txt When the initrd is being rebuilt, surely a reboot should be suggested/recommended or is that not standard practice? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (7.2°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes (2016 - present) We're hiring - https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Heroes
On 02.02.2023 20:10, Per Jessen wrote:
I really don't dabble much with Tumbleweed, so this might be a stupid question.
On my newly dup'ed system "office24", I just ran another zypper dup - the output is here:
https://files.jessen.ch/office24.zypperdup.txt
When the initrd is being rebuilt, surely a reboot should be suggested/recommended or is that not standard practice?
zypper is not aware of initrd at all. It suggests reboot if patch has reboot_suggested flag. Only patches have this flag and Tumbleweed does not have patches.
Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On 02.02.2023 20:10, Per Jessen wrote:
I really don't dabble much with Tumbleweed, so this might be a stupid question.
On my newly dup'ed system "office24", I just ran another zypper dup - the output is here:
https://files.jessen.ch/office24.zypperdup.txt
When the initrd is being rebuilt, surely a reboot should be suggested/recommended or is that not standard practice?
zypper is not aware of initrd at all. It suggests reboot if patch has reboot_suggested flag. Only patches have this flag and Tumbleweed does not have patches.
Haha, thanks for that Andrei. I guess individual packages are aware of initrd and request it to be rebuilt - it still seems like that ought to produce a "reboot at your earliest convenience" ? Anyway, just an old greybeard thinking out loud. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.3°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes (2016 - present) We're hiring - https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Heroes
On Feb 2, 2023, at 9:35 PM, David C. Rankin <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
On 2/2/23 11:44, Per Jessen wrote:
Anyway, just an old greybeard thinking out loud.
All our beards are a bit grey after participating in this list for two-decades. I was already in my 30s when I joined... Time does pass quickly. +1, except I was in my late 40’s when I first installed S.u.S.E. And joined the mailing lists.
Ken Schneider Since retired
-- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
* kschneider bout-tyme.net <kschneider@bout-tyme.net> [02-02-23 21:53]:
On Feb 2, 2023, at 9:35 PM, David C. Rankin <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
On 2/2/23 11:44, Per Jessen wrote:
Anyway, just an old greybeard thinking out loud.
All our beards are a bit grey after participating in this list for two-decades. I was already in my 30s when I joined... Time does pass quickly. +1, except I was in my late 40’s when I first installed S.u.S.E. And joined the mailing lists.
yup, but already in my mid 50's when I installed newly released SuSE 5.0. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc
On 2023-02-02 18:30, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On 02.02.2023 20:10, Per Jessen wrote:
I really don't dabble much with Tumbleweed, so this might be a stupid question.
On my newly dup'ed system "office24", I just ran another zypper dup - the output is here:
https://files.jessen.ch/office24.zypperdup.txt
When the initrd is being rebuilt, surely a reboot should be suggested/recommended or is that not standard practice?
zypper is not aware of initrd at all. It suggests reboot if patch has reboot_suggested flag. Only patches have this flag and Tumbleweed does not have patches.
Ow! That's an important bit of information to know. Thanks. So that's why some users think they don't have to reboot TW after a zypper dup ;-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from Elesar, using openSUSE Leap 15.4)
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [02-03-23 08:00]:
On 2023-02-02 18:30, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On 02.02.2023 20:10, Per Jessen wrote:
I really don't dabble much with Tumbleweed, so this might be a stupid question.
On my newly dup'ed system "office24", I just ran another zypper dup - the output is here:
https://files.jessen.ch/office24.zypperdup.txt
When the initrd is being rebuilt, surely a reboot should be suggested/recommended or is that not standard practice?
zypper is not aware of initrd at all. It suggests reboot if patch has reboot_suggested flag. Only patches have this flag and Tumbleweed does not have patches.
Ow! That's an important bit of information to know. Thanks.
So that's why some users think they don't have to reboot TW after a zypper dup ;-)
no, that is not accurate. rebooting is recommended but not necessary when dbus and/or kernel is updated. services may be restarted using "systemctl restart <service>" for the most part in other instances, rebooting is a personal choice. ie: PID | PPID | UID | User | Command | Service -----+------+-----+------------+--------------------------+--------------- 1302 | 1 | 0 | root | appimaged | appimaged "systemctl restart appimaged"
-- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from Elesar, using openSUSE Leap 15.4)
-- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc
On 2023-02-03 14:22, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [02-03-23 08:00]:
On 2023-02-02 18:30, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On 02.02.2023 20:10, Per Jessen wrote:
I really don't dabble much with Tumbleweed, so this might be a stupid question.
On my newly dup'ed system "office24", I just ran another zypper dup - the output is here:
https://files.jessen.ch/office24.zypperdup.txt
When the initrd is being rebuilt, surely a reboot should be suggested/recommended or is that not standard practice?
zypper is not aware of initrd at all. It suggests reboot if patch has reboot_suggested flag. Only patches have this flag and Tumbleweed does not have patches.
Ow! That's an important bit of information to know. Thanks.
So that's why some users think they don't have to reboot TW after a zypper dup ;-)
no, that is not accurate. rebooting is recommended but not necessary when dbus and/or kernel is updated. services may be restarted using "systemctl restart <service>" for the most part in other instances, rebooting is a personal choice.
If you don't reboot, the kernel update has not been applied. Time wasted doing an update that you do not apply. A reboot is absolutely necessary when the kernel is updated. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from Elesar, using openSUSE Leap 15.4)
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [02-03-23 08:58]:
On 2023-02-03 14:22, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [02-03-23 08:00]:
On 2023-02-02 18:30, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On 02.02.2023 20:10, Per Jessen wrote:
I really don't dabble much with Tumbleweed, so this might be a stupid question.
On my newly dup'ed system "office24", I just ran another zypper dup - the output is here:
https://files.jessen.ch/office24.zypperdup.txt
When the initrd is being rebuilt, surely a reboot should be suggested/recommended or is that not standard practice?
zypper is not aware of initrd at all. It suggests reboot if patch has reboot_suggested flag. Only patches have this flag and Tumbleweed does not have patches.
Ow! That's an important bit of information to know. Thanks.
So that's why some users think they don't have to reboot TW after a zypper dup ;-)
no, that is not accurate. rebooting is recommended but not necessary when dbus and/or kernel is updated. services may be restarted using "systemctl restart <service>" for the most part in other instances, rebooting is a personal choice.
If you don't reboot, the kernel update has not been applied. Time wasted doing an update that you do not apply.
A reboot is absolutely necessary when the kernel is updated.
Reat my reply again! -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc
On 2023-02-03 15:00, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [02-03-23 08:58]:
On 2023-02-03 14:22, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [02-03-23 08:00]:
On 2023-02-02 18:30, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On 02.02.2023 20:10, Per Jessen wrote:
I really don't dabble much with Tumbleweed, so this might be a stupid question.
On my newly dup'ed system "office24", I just ran another zypper dup - the output is here:
https://files.jessen.ch/office24.zypperdup.txt
When the initrd is being rebuilt, surely a reboot should be suggested/recommended or is that not standard practice?
zypper is not aware of initrd at all. It suggests reboot if patch has reboot_suggested flag. Only patches have this flag and Tumbleweed does not have patches.
Ow! That's an important bit of information to know. Thanks.
So that's why some users think they don't have to reboot TW after a zypper dup ;-)
no, that is not accurate. rebooting is recommended but not necessary when dbus and/or kernel is updated. services may be restarted using "systemctl restart <service>" for the most part in other instances, rebooting is a personal choice.
If you don't reboot, the kernel update has not been applied. Time wasted doing an update that you do not apply.
A reboot is absolutely necessary when the kernel is updated.
Reat my reply again!
No need. I'm not going to argue with you, but you are wrong. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from Elesar, using openSUSE Leap 15.4)
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [02-03-23 09:41]:
On 2023-02-03 15:00, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [02-03-23 08:58]:
On 2023-02-03 14:22, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [02-03-23 08:00]: ...
So that's why some users think they don't have to reboot TW after a zypper dup ;-)
no, that is not accurate. rebooting is recommended but not necessary when dbus and/or kernel is updated. services may be restarted using "systemctl restart <service>" for the most part in other instances, rebooting is a personal choice.
If you don't reboot, the kernel update has not been applied. Time wasted doing an update that you do not apply.
A reboot is absolutely necessary when the kernel is updated.
Reat my reply again!
No need. I'm not going to argue with you, but you are wrong.
no need to argue, I have two test boxes with >80 days uptime which are constantly dup'ed. several kernel install during that time. agree that enhancements from newer kernels are not available, but rebooting is NOT necessary to continuously employe tumbleweed. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc
On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 10:57:47 -0500, Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
[...], I have two test boxes with >80 days uptime which are constantly dup'ed. several kernel install during that time. [...]
If that is automated, what are you using to do it? -- Robert Webb
* Robert Webb <webbdg@verizon.net> [02-03-23 17:29]:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 10:57:47 -0500, Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
[...], I have two test boxes with >80 days uptime which are constantly dup'ed. several kernel install during that time. [...]
If that is automated, what are you using to do it?
I would not call it automated, but it well could be: zypper -v ref ; zypper -v dup -d -l && zypper -v dup -l -y -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc
On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 21:26:51 -0500, Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Robert Webb <webbdg@verizon.net> [02-03-23 17:29]:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 10:57:47 -0500, Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
[...], I have two test boxes with >80 days uptime which are constantly dup'ed. several kernel install during that time. [...]
If that is automated, what are you using to do it?
I would not call it automated, but it well could be: zypper -v ref ; zypper -v dup -d -l && zypper -v dup -l -y
Right. That's about how I manually invoke it when there is a giant update, except after the first 'zypper dup' (--download-only), I shut down all apps but a terminal before the dup that does the installs. I usually reboot, though, so was curious whether you were doing anything special for that. -- Robert Webb
* Robert Webb <webbdg@verizon.net> [02-04-23 00:57]:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 21:26:51 -0500, Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Robert Webb <webbdg@verizon.net> [02-03-23 17:29]:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 10:57:47 -0500, Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
[...], I have two test boxes with >80 days uptime which are constantly dup'ed. several kernel install during that time. [...]
If that is automated, what are you using to do it?
I would not call it automated, but it well could be: zypper -v ref ; zypper -v dup -d -l && zypper -v dup -l -y
Right. That's about how I manually invoke it when there is a giant update, except after the first 'zypper dup' (--download-only), I shut down all apps but a terminal before the dup that does the installs. I usually reboot, though, so was curious whether you were doing anything special for that.
restarting apps can be done just the same after the "update/dup" is completed. I usually do not bother unless the newer version provided a needed/wanted feature. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc
On 2/3/23 23:52, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [02-03-23 08:00]:
On 2023-02-02 18:30, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On 02.02.2023 20:10, Per Jessen wrote:
I really don't dabble much with Tumbleweed, so this might be a stupid question.
On my newly dup'ed system "office24", I just ran another zypper dup - the output is here:
https://files.jessen.ch/office24.zypperdup.txt
When the initrd is being rebuilt, surely a reboot should be suggested/recommended or is that not standard practice?
zypper is not aware of initrd at all. It suggests reboot if patch has reboot_suggested flag. Only patches have this flag and Tumbleweed does not have patches.
Ow! That's an important bit of information to know. Thanks.
So that's why some users think they don't have to reboot TW after a zypper dup ;-)
no, that is not accurate. rebooting is recommended but not necessary when dbus and/or kernel is updated. services may be restarted using "systemctl restart <service>" for the most part in other instances, rebooting is a personal choice.
Many applications and services that use dbus do not handle dbus going away and coming back again, which is why the service files shipped with openSUSE specifically disable allowing the service to be rebooted. If you feel like changing that because you don't notice issues with the set of apps that run thats fine but please don't encourage other users to attempt an approach that is known to cause issues, thanks your friendly dbus maintainer. Regardless of that not rebooting after any tumbleweed update will probably leave your machine in a inconsistent state which may or may not work. Leap is a bit different in that updates should retain binary ABI. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 9:31 AM Simon Lees <sflees@suse.de> wrote:
Regardless of that not rebooting after any tumbleweed update will probably leave your machine in a inconsistent state which may or may not work. Leap is a bit different in that updates should retain binary ABI.
As long as we stay on Leap pure, without any additional repositories. I have a feeling that this is a rather exceptional case.
On 02.02.2023 20:30, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On 02.02.2023 20:10, Per Jessen wrote:
I really don't dabble much with Tumbleweed, so this might be a stupid question.
On my newly dup'ed system "office24", I just ran another zypper dup - the output is here:
https://files.jessen.ch/office24.zypperdup.txt
When the initrd is being rebuilt, surely a reboot should be suggested/recommended or is that not standard practice?
zypper is not aware of initrd at all. It suggests reboot if patch has reboot_suggested flag. Only patches have this flag and Tumbleweed does not have patches.
Actually I was wrong. Packages may suggest reboot or may be (statically) listed as requiring reboot, but as far as I can tell only kernel, kernel-firmware and xen packages actually are considered so far (kernel and kernel-firmware are built-in in zypper sources and xen provides reboot hint). You may add package capabilities to /etc/zypp/needreboot(.d) for zypper to warn about additional packages.
participants (8)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Carlos E. R. -
David C. Rankin -
kschneider bout-tyme.net -
Patrick Shanahan -
Per Jessen -
Robert Webb -
Simon Lees