[opensuse] re menu starter items: life before and after death of SuSEconfig
This is about menu starter items. I want to be able to create .desktop files for ~/.local/share/applications/ initially either with a text editor, or with KDE3's or KDE4's menu editor, and later migrate them to, or from, other users. ISTR while SuSEconfig was alive that .desktop files could be placed from elsewhere into ~/.local/share/applications/ and they would be ignored until such time as SuSEconfig was run. I'd like on systems where SuSEconfig is still present to be able to run SuSEconfig -module modulename to do this, but there seems on 11.4 at least to be no documentation to discover what modules exist, thus no way to discover what module to run in order to make KDE see these migrated .desktop files, forcing SuSEconfig to in effect timestamp unchanged files, in addition to making the menu items work. Post-SuSEconfig, what tool takes its place? NAICT, xdg-desktop-menu may be what SuSEconfig used, and what to use since, bug as is normal for man pages, http://linux.die.net/man/1/xdg-desktop-menu lacks examples that make its prose understandable. Neither does it explain whether it's designed for global use (changing something in /etc/), or user level ($HOME only). What bothers me most is that mere existence of a valid .desktop file in ~/.local/share/applications/ is insufficient for the application/configuration it defines to show up in a KDE menu. Why is anything more necessary? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2014-05-17 00:10, Felix Miata wrote:
modulename to do this, but there seems on 11.4 at least to be no documentation to discover what modules exist, thus no way to discover what module to run in order to make KDE see these migrated .desktop files, forcing SuSEconfig to in effect timestamp unchanged files, in addition to making the menu items work.
I'm away with only my laptop, so I can't have a look at older installs and find out. I think "SuSEconfig --modules" told the list of modules available, which were in fact scripts in a certain directory. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlN2njoACgkQja8UbcUWM1xLPAEAoEm+Y3SD0eiFte0xdqwhGebM 2V32GbNjWSC7MIXjzYYA/iZxaAVmLVs9onLAekY/Vi2NwOGxAuLfc6RytOqkzdPW =4N8g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-17 01:24 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
I think "SuSEconfig --modules" told the list of modules available, which were in fact scripts in a certain directory.
All of SuSEconfig -module SuSEconfig -modules SuSEconfig --module SuSEconfig --modules produce usage message, or running module <null> message or 3 or 4 lines each. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2014-05-17 02:22, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2014-05-17 01:24 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
I think "SuSEconfig --modules" told the list of modules available, which were in fact scripts in a certain directory.
All of
SuSEconfig -module SuSEconfig -modules SuSEconfig --module SuSEconfig --modules
produce usage message, or running module <null> message or 3 or 4 lines each.
And that usage message says nothing? Maybe "--help"? Otherwise, use "locate SuSEconfig" to find out where they are. If you don't have locate, install it or use "find ... whatever". They are a bunch of scripts like SuSEconfig.something, IIRC, which I probably don't. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlN2r7MACgkQja8UbcUWM1w0IQEAmDouZXJiFTaa1oDs4BjNJD/g IOng5wsi0/5b/Q/9OnEA/3Zt4++d3Z7lTKzop5TNdMXOdj4i9dqe6P8z8fE9gcTm =5EmI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-17 02:39 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
And that usage message says nothing? Maybe "--help"?
# SuSEconfig --modules Starting SuSEconfig, the SuSE Configuration Tool... Unknown parameter --modules. Usage: SuSEconfig [--quick|--nonewpackage|--force|--verbose] [--module name] # SuSEconfig -modules Starting SuSEconfig, the SuSE Configuration Tool... Unknown parameter -modules. Usage: SuSEconfig [--quick|--nonewpackage|--force|--verbose] [--module name] # SuSEconfig -module Starting SuSEconfig, the SuSE Configuration Tool... Running module only Reading /etc/sysconfig and updating the system... Finished. # SuSEconfig --module Starting SuSEconfig, the SuSE Configuration Tool... Running module only Reading /etc/sysconfig and updating the system... Finished. #
Otherwise, use "locate SuSEconfig" to find out where they are. If you don't have locate, install it or use "find ... whatever". They are a bunch of scripts like SuSEconfig.something, IIRC, which I probably don't.
# zypper in findutils-locate ... The following NEW package is going to be installed: findutils-locate 4.4.2-11.1 1 new package to install. ... Continue? [y/n/?] (y): y committing Retrieving package findutils-locate-4.4.2-11.1.i586 (1/1), 52.0 KiB (132.0 KiB unpacked) ... Installing: findutils-locate-4.4.2-11.1 [done] Additional rpm output: Updating /etc/sysconfig/locate... # locate SuSEconfig # locate SuSEconfig # ... MC (search) ... # ls -l /sbin/SuSE* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 5872 Nov 4 2010 SuSEconfig -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> [05-16-14 21:04]:
On 2014-05-17 02:39 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
And that usage message says nothing? Maybe "--help"?
# SuSEconfig --modules Starting SuSEconfig, the SuSE Configuration Tool... Unknown parameter --modules. Usage: SuSEconfig [--quick|--nonewpackage|--force|--verbose] [--module name] # SuSEconfig -modules Starting SuSEconfig, the SuSE Configuration Tool... Unknown parameter -modules. Usage: SuSEconfig [--quick|--nonewpackage|--force|--verbose] [--module name] # SuSEconfig -module Starting SuSEconfig, the SuSE Configuration Tool... Running module only Reading /etc/sysconfig and updating the system... Finished. # SuSEconfig --module Starting SuSEconfig, the SuSE Configuration Tool... Running module only Reading /etc/sysconfig and updating the system... Finished. #
Otherwise, use "locate SuSEconfig" to find out where they are. If you don't have locate, install it or use "find ... whatever". They are a bunch of scripts like SuSEconfig.something, IIRC, which I probably don't.
# zypper in findutils-locate ... The following NEW package is going to be installed: findutils-locate 4.4.2-11.1 1 new package to install. ... Continue? [y/n/?] (y): y committing Retrieving package findutils-locate-4.4.2-11.1.i586 (1/1), 52.0 KiB (132.0 KiB unpacked) ... Installing: findutils-locate-4.4.2-11.1 [done] Additional rpm output: Updating /etc/sysconfig/locate...
# locate SuSEconfig # locate SuSEconfig #
you need to populate the db first: updatedb else there is nothing to search. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-16 23:58 (GMT-0400) Patrick Shanahan composed:
you need to populate the db first: updatedb else there is nothing to search.
Sheesh. Are there other rpms that install applications that won't do anything useful without doing something else first? I can't think of any I've run across, either ever, or a very long time. Would/should installation have set this up as a cron job? Anyway, that lead to of all the inexplicable things 11.4's /sbin/conf.d/ (which 13.1 does not have) to find the SuSEconfig utils, among which is SuSEconfig.desktop-file-utils. That does little but figure out the caller, then run /usr/bin/update-desktop-database, which comes from freedesktop.org's desktop-file-utils package. So, in 11.4/KDE3 I created a bunch of .desktop files with the KDE menu editor to start various Gecko apps with unique profiles, 10 in all. On another system I booted and logged into 13.1/KDE3, took a screencap of the Web Browser menu, logged out, cleared all Gecko .desktop files from ~/.local/share/applications/, copied the 10 files from the other system, and ran update-desktop-database. That produced instances of "Could not parse file" with "Invalid key name: Exec[$e]" for 6 of the .desktop files. Then I logged back into KDE, looked at the Web Browser menu, and nothing had been changed. :-( So, I seem to have accomplished nothing regarding migrating .desktop files between users. What else/instead needs doing? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2014-05-17 07:20, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2014-05-16 23:58 (GMT-0400) Patrick Shanahan composed:
you need to populate the db first: updatedb else there is nothing to search.
Sheesh. Are there other rpms that install applications that won't do anything useful without doing something else first? I can't think of any I've run across, either ever, or a very long time. Would/should installation have set this up as a cron job?
It did install a cron job, that runs once a day. Either you wait a day, or run it yourself now. It typically takes a few minutes to do its job.
Anyway, that lead to of all the inexplicable things 11.4's /sbin/conf.d/ (which 13.1 does not have) to find the SuSEconfig utils, among which is SuSEconfig.desktop-file-utils. That does little but figure out the caller, then run /usr/bin/update-desktop-database, which comes from freedesktop.org's desktop-file-utils package.
Ah, then you did find the script. You just have to inspect it to find what it does...
So, I seem to have accomplished nothing regarding migrating .desktop files between users. What else/instead needs doing?
I don't know. That's something I do not know much about. On occasion, I edit a faulty system desktop file, and things adapt automatically, somehow. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlN3NjsACgkQja8UbcUWM1zySAD+I1ZD1IZHlvjjpgAM/mSDDasU T5hmmZjSMbA2V0CrvwoA/20+q4uT2/9mf4IEO7g3SyEpA663ZWxOZE+Q5nBHubd0 =vv9j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/17/2014 01:20 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
Sheesh. Are there other rpms that install applications that won't do anything useful without doing something else first? I can't think of any I've run across, either ever, or a very long time.
I had to do something with Thunderbird first before it did anything useful. I had to enter (all) my email account details, the host serving them, the login name and password and what type of handshake and port. Then there's my printer. I had to make use of the vendors disk/web site to get the PPD file and configure CUPS to make make use of it before I could print. I had to tell CUPS that it was network connected, had only the one paper tray, that I wanted the double sided 'tumble' to be on the long edge, and that I was using 'letter' sized paper not A4, the DPI and print quality I wanted. I could probably find more examples. Its a hard life being a computer user, isn't it? -- Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. --Henry Louis Mencken -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 17/05/14 12:36, Anton Aylward wrote:
I could probably find more examples.
Your examples are specious - they require user/administrator intervention to gain information they cannot know, or for specific config options. Locate, on the other hand, can (and does) get all the information it needs from its installation package and the contents of the computer's filesystem(s). Dx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/17/2014 07:50 AM, Dylan wrote:
On 17/05/14 12:36, Anton Aylward wrote:
I could probably find more examples.
Your examples are specious - they require user/administrator intervention to gain information they cannot know, or for specific config options. Locate, on the other hand, can (and does) get all the information it needs from its installation package and the contents of the computer's filesystem(s).
And the OP, knowing that? No, my comments were ironic not specious. As you say, 'locate' shouldn't need user intervention the way the examples I gave do. But the OP asserted that it did. <quote>
Are there other rpms that install applications that won't do anything useful without doing something else first? I can't think of any I've run across, either ever, or a very long time. </quote>
I have examples that REALLY did. -- Almost all quality improvement comes via simplification of design,manufacturing, layout, processes, and procedures. -- Tom Peters -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> [05-17-14 01:20]:
On 2014-05-16 23:58 (GMT-0400) Patrick Shanahan composed:
you need to populate the db first: updatedb else there is nothing to search.
Sheesh. Are there other rpms that install applications that won't do anything useful without doing something else first? I can't think of any I've run across, either ever, or a very long time. Would/should installation have set this up as a cron job?
It does set up a cron job but I don't believe the initial run is *immediate*. But you are quite capable of determining that on your own rather than summarily dismissing it w/o cause.
Anyway, that lead to of all the inexplicable things 11.4's /sbin/conf.d/ (which 13.1 does not have) to find the SuSEconfig utils, among which is SuSEconfig.desktop-file-utils. That does little but figure out the caller, then run /usr/bin/update-desktop-database, which comes from freedesktop.org's desktop-file-utils package.
So, in 11.4/KDE3 I created a bunch of .desktop files with the KDE menu editor to start various Gecko apps with unique profiles, 10 in all. On another system I booted and logged into 13.1/KDE3, took a screencap of the Web Browser menu, logged out, cleared all Gecko .desktop files from ~/.local/share/applications/, copied the 10 files from the other system, and ran update-desktop-database. That produced instances of "Could not parse file" with "Invalid key name: Exec[$e]" for 6 of the .desktop files. Then I logged back into KDE, looked at the Web Browser menu, and nothing had been changed. :-(
Did you consider a syntax error in the 6 failures? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/16/2014 06:10 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Post-SuSEconfig, what tool takes its place? NAICT, xdg-desktop-menu may be what SuSEconfig used, and what to use since, bug as is normal for man pages, http://linux.die.net/man/1/xdg-desktop-menu lacks examples that make its prose understandable. Neither does it explain whether it's designed for global use (changing something in /etc/), or user level ($HOME only).
I honestly don't know about xdg-desktop-menu. I've edited the lizard-at-the-botton-left menu but I always use the gui too that comes up when I right-click-and-hold on it and select 'edit applications'. I get a gui titled 'KDE Menu Editor'. Running 'ps' tells me there is kmenuedit' running. http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kde-workspace/kmenuedit/using-kmenuedit.html
From a text-mode POV, the help file says
<quote> There is no way to transfer menu settings using the GUI, you have to do that manually and copy the following files to the target user: KMenuEdit stores the menu hierarchy in $HOME/.config/menus/applications-kmenuedit.menu and $HOME/.local/share/desktop-directories contains desktop files for submenus you created. In $HOME/.local/share/applications/ you find the desktop files for the custom items you created. </quote> What is not clear in the help is whether the menu a new user is given is by copy from a template to those locations or a reference to a global set of defaults. Further: <quote> The shortcuts for each application are stored in ~/.kde/share/config/kglobalshortcutsrc, but export/import does not work because the UUIDs of the shortcuts do not match up between systems, even though the .desktop files are the same. You have to assign all shortcuts manually again. </quote> -- There is no greater mistake than the hasty conclusion that opinions are worthless because they are badly argued. Thomas H. Huxley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
Dylan -
Felix Miata -
Patrick Shanahan