Dave Howorth composed on 2021-12-29 20:29 (UTC):

That leads to an apparently infinite regression of Firefox windows file:~/.mozilla/tmp/openSUSE-Leap-15.3-2-DVD-x86_64-Build24.5-Media.iso.meta... and popups asking what to do with it. :(

...

For short,

...

https://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.3/iso/openSUSE-Leap-15.3-...

As does that. :(

Dunno where that .meta4 came from. I don't see it anywhere on http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.3/iso/. https://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.3/iso/openSUSE-Leap-15.3-... will work if you want the "original" 15.3 release....

PS I ask again. Is this all documented anywhere? Why do the online instructions not state these things? Or have I simply not found the correct place?

I don't know of any "correct place". Best place might be to hunt through the mailing list archives where the rebuilds were discussed or announced. I always goto http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.3/iso/ and employ logic. In Firefox you can click the modified or size headings and see based on file sizes that there are two names for each .iso file. AIU the thread, you're probably looking for either of the following two .iso files: openSUSE-Leap-15.3-DVD-x86_64-Current.iso openSUSE-Leap-15.3-DVD-x86_64-Media.iso both 4599054336, error corrections of the original .isos openSUSE-Leap-15.3-2-DVD-x86_64-Build24.5-Media.iso openSUSE-Leap-15.3-2-DVD-x86_64-Current.iso both 4599054336, rebuilds of the originals with added support for newer hardware # wget http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.3/iso/openSUSE-Leap-15.3-2... just worked for me. I don't know what point there would be for most people to use the older. I think it's there as a pseudo-archive.

...

GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR="main-os"

It presently says

GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=""

That causes a fallback to the default "opensuse".

Is that OK? If not how do I know what characters my UEFI likes? In particular, does it like a dot '.'?

It should accept any character any other vFAT filesystem accepts. I keep mine simple but obvious: # ls -1 /boot/efi/EFI/ BOOT debian10 debian11 linuxmint21 opensuse153 opensuse154 opensusetw tubuntu2004 -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata

Dave Howorth composed on 2021-12-30 13:09 (UTC):

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 16:37:23 -0500 Felix Miata wrote:

...

In Firefox you can click the modified or size headings and see based on file sizes that there are two names for each .iso file. AIU the thread, you're probably looking for either of the following two .iso files:

...

openSUSE-Leap-15.3-DVD-x86_64-Current.iso openSUSE-Leap-15.3-DVD-x86_64-Media.iso both 4599054336, error corrections of the original .isos

In my browser I just see 4.3G but in any event all the dates and sizes are the same (of the DVD-x86_64 ISOs I mean, so give no clue)

...

openSUSE-Leap-15.3-2-DVD-x86_64-Build24.5-Media.iso openSUSE-Leap-15.3-2-DVD-x86_64-Current.iso both 4599054336, rebuilds of the originals with added support for newer hardware

If the newer ones have extra support, why are they the same size?

Obviously I was not thinking, or not seeing what was clearly in front of my face, or confused by my own recollection of the factory and/or buildservice mailing list thread(s), which was 4 names for one file, and is again now - the originals were rebuilt. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata

On 29/12/2021 21.29, Dave Howorth wrote:

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 20:13:40 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...

On 29/12/2021 19.12, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

I'd like to [finally] install 15.3. I want to install it separate to my existing system so I can revert to my existing system in the event of problems. I'm having trouble finding a clear set of instructions.

I've found

https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book-startup/art-op...

and

https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book-startup/cha-in...

but they both start with the assumption that I've already got an installation image. I don't! So searching elsewhere I've found

https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Download_help

and that suggests (among many other suggestions just to confuse me!)

https://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.3/iso/

but that seems to have an enormous number of possibilities. I can figure out some of it: DVD vs NET and x86_64 vs other architectures and .iso vs .iso.sha256 but I'm lost about other aspects.

What's Media vs Current all about? And what's 15.3 vs 15.3-2? And what's Build24.5?

Is there a single place that actually documents how to install 15.3 from start to end?

Haven't you installed it before? :-?

Afraid not

Oh. But you do have a Linux system? Or are you using Windows to do the download?

...

https://get.opensuse.org/

click on "15.3".

--> https://get.opensuse.org/leap/

Click on the "download" tab. Select the first one, "Intel or AMD 64-bit desktops, laptops, and servers (x86_64)". I reccomend the large offline image, 4.3 GiB. On the download button, click on the down arrow and choose "metalink".

That leads to an apparently infinite regression of Firefox windows file:~/.mozilla/tmp/openSUSE-Leap-15.3-2-DVD-x86_64-Build24.5-Media.iso.meta... and popups asking what to do with it. :(

Ah, because you need to install a plugin so that Firefox knows how to handle a metalink, or forget all that, and download from Linux using the aria2c command I wrote. https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Download_help There is a section on "Downloading via Metalinks". You have to install "DownThemAll" on FF. But there are other options you can see in that section. Best way, is to forget firefox and use the aria2c command as I wrote later. The command is the faster possible: it uses several servers and methods at the same time to guarantee the fastest and guaranteed download. And it verifies that download is correct, so you can forget about commands to verify the iso file.

...

For short,

https://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.3/iso/openSUSE-Leap-15.3-...

As does that. :(

...

Or go to the download server:

http://download.opensuse.org/

These two should be the same (they are links):

http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/openSUSE-stable/ http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/openSUSE-current/

No they aren't the same! :( One leads to 15.2. The other to 15.3

Ah! Didn't see nor know that.

...

go to iso

The correct one is

http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/openSUSE-current/iso/openSUSE-Leap...

This appears to be the same as the page I originally went to. So I still have the same questions - what do the names mean? How do I know which is the right one (to decide for myself rather than trusting you :-P :)

Oh, because I have spent hundreds of hours reading mail lists and other documentations for over two decades, so I know :-D Ok, I know I want the DVD, because it is the complete version, and the best one for doing installs. Alternatively, there is the NET version which some people prefer, but it means downloading everything at installation time, every time. And the lives I do not recommend for installation, just for testing. Also, I know I want the x86_64 version because I have a PC, and so do you. If you don't, then that is another can of worms. Then I know I want the build number with the higher value because it is more recent. And of course, I need the .iso file.

...

Quick and best download CLI method, if you have a running Linux:

(one line)

aria2c --check-integrity=true "http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/openSUSE-current/iso/openSUSE-Leap..."

if aria2c is not installed yet, install it. No buts accepted :-p

Now, instructions to install a second openSUSE are not trivial, lots of decisions. I don't know if there is a docu. We can guide you (as many methods as writers here), if you give details of what you want and what you have.

First important question: is your system BIOS or UEFI?

UEFI

...

Second: is the disk traditionally partitioned, or GPT?

GPT for both disks. The old and the new.

Ah, two disks. Then you have to explain more.

PS I ask again. Is this all documented anywhere? Why do the online instructions not state these things? Or have I simply not found the correct place?

Maybe because you have not hit on them, or maybe because I have not written this tidbit. And if I did, nobody would find it. The need for this tidbit has been mentioned on the mail lists more than once. Or maybe you are not asking for this tidbit in particular. There is a _Book_ on installing openSUSE (the startup guide). In PDF, HTML and epub. Read it. And then there is a "reference guide", also very good. https://doc.opensuse.org/

...

If the answer is UEFI and GPT, then the first move - a crucial move:

edit "/etc/default/grub".

On the line that starts "GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=..." write a name that is not opensuse, and that your UEFI likes. avoid spaces, underscores. For example, I have:

GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR="main-os"

It presently says

GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=""

Is that OK? If not how do I know what characters my UEFI likes? In particular, does it like a dot '.'?

That's the default, and you have to change it. Nobody knows what your own computer firmware will like. Mine did not like what I wrote and I had to change it. I think it did not like dots or underscores, one of the two and I do not remember which. How do you know it doesn't like it? Because the machine will not boot Grub. The entry for your system disappears from the _firmware_ menu.

...

Once done, run the command:

grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub2/grub.cfg

Then fire up yast, select the boot module, and on the third tab change the timeout just one second up or down, and click accept.

This obscure incantation will avoid trouble coming later.

When your second openSUSE Linux is finally installed, do the same in that installation, and give it another name. It is not urgent to do in the second install, but it is important. On the first install, it is is urgent and crucial.

Once you do this (on first and only system yet), reboot, and check it does boot. If it doesn't, oops. Shout here.

I will. Thanks for the help so far ...

You will have to describe your system in detail and your goal to get more detailed help ;-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 30/12/2021 14.42, Dave Howorth wrote:

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 23:18:28 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...

On 29/12/2021 21.29, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 20:13:40 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...

On 29/12/2021 19.12, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

I'd like to [finally] install 15.3. I want to install it separate to my existing system so I can revert to my existing system in the event of problems. I'm having trouble finding a clear set of instructions.

I've found

https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book-startup/art-op...

and

https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book-startup/cha-in...

but they both start with the assumption that I've already got an installation image. I don't! So searching elsewhere I've found

https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Download_help

and that suggests (among many other suggestions just to confuse me!)

https://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.3/iso/

but that seems to have an enormous number of possibilities. I can figure out some of it: DVD vs NET and x86_64 vs other architectures and .iso vs .iso.sha256 but I'm lost about other aspects.

What's Media vs Current all about? And what's 15.3 vs 15.3-2? And what's Build24.5?

Is there a single place that actually documents how to install 15.3 from start to end?

Haven't you installed it before? :-?

Afraid not

Oh. But you do have a Linux system? Or are you using Windows to do the download?

No, it's linux.

Ok.

...

...

...

https://get.opensuse.org/

click on "15.3".

--> https://get.opensuse.org/leap/

Click on the "download" tab. Select the first one, "Intel or AMD 64-bit desktops, laptops, and servers (x86_64)". I reccomend the large offline image, 4.3 GiB. On the download button, click on the down arrow and choose "metalink".

That leads to an apparently infinite regression of Firefox windows file:~/.mozilla/tmp/openSUSE-Leap-15.3-2-DVD-x86_64-Build24.5-Media.iso.meta... and popups asking what to do with it. :(

Ah, because you need to install a plugin so that Firefox knows how to handle a metalink, or forget all that, and download from Linux using the aria2c command I wrote.

https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Download_help

There is a section on "Downloading via Metalinks".

You have to install "DownThemAll" on FF. But there are other options you can see in that section.

Best way, is to forget firefox and use the aria2c command as I wrote later. The command is the faster possible: it uses several servers and methods at the same time to guarantee the fastest and guaranteed download. And it verifies that download is correct, so you can forget

Yes, I'll use that, thanks.

Ok. Comment: aria2c is a metalink downloader. When you tell it to download the iso, what it does in fact is download first the .meta4 file, an information file of about 1 Megabyte. It is a text file, you can inspect it. XML, in fact. The first thing it contains, for example, is a long list of "hashes", or checksums for download chunks of the DVD. The program divides the DVD file in many chunks, and calculates the checksums of each chunk, and compares the actual downloaded chunk checksum with that list, and knows if that chunk (size 262144) has been downloaded correctly or not. If not, it downloads only that chunk again. Thus, the program has the ability to repair a DVD that has been incorrectly downloaded without downloading it whole. It also contains a long list of mirrors (calculated dinamically) from where to download the DVD. It can also contain download information for several protocols, even torrent. Example, from an old version: <url type="bittorrent" preference="100">http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.4/iso/openSUSE-11.4-DVD-x86_64....</url> Once it downloads the .meta4 file, it turns to the actual business of downloading the DVD. Ah, it can be interrupted, it will recover when you restart it.

...

...

...

go to iso

The correct one is

http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/openSUSE-current/iso/openSUSE-Leap...

This appears to be the same as the page I originally went to. So I still have the same questions - what do the names mean? How do I know which is the right one (to decide for myself rather than trusting you :-P :)

Oh, because I have spent hundreds of hours reading mail lists and other documentations for over two decades, so I know :-D

See my answer to Felix :)

Done :-)

...

Ok, I know I want the DVD, because it is the complete version, and the best one for doing installs. Alternatively, there is the NET version which some people prefer, but it means downloading everything at installation time, every time. And the lives I do not recommend for installation, just for testing.

Yup I agree with your logic.

...

Also, I know I want the x86_64 version because I have a PC, and so do you. If you don't, then that is another can of worms.

Then I know I want the build number with the higher value because it is more recent.

See my question in my reply to Felix?

Done, answered there, I think. Ignore dates, I forgot to say.

...

And of course, I need the .iso file.

...

...

Quick and best download CLI method, if you have a running Linux:

(one line)

aria2c --check-integrity=true "http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/openSUSE-current/iso/openSUSE-Leap..."

if aria2c is not installed yet, install it. No buts accepted :-p

I already have it :)

Good. It may be installed by default, now.

...

...

...

Now, instructions to install a second openSUSE are not trivial, lots of decisions. I don't know if there is a docu. We can guide you (as many methods as writers here), if you give details of what you want and what you have.

First important question: is your system BIOS or UEFI?

UEFI

...

Second: is the disk traditionally partitioned, or GPT?

GPT for both disks. The old and the new.

Ah, two disks. Then you have to explain more.

Not much to explain. I have my existing system on my existing disk. I want to install 15.3 on a newer (SSD) disk. There's a bit of swap and a bit of a data partition on there and a bunch of unallocated space.

Yeah, but to give advice we need to know what exactly you want to do. Like, what disks are you using, which are temporary and which are final, where do you want to install, etc. As you want to install on the second disk, there is a somewhat hidden menu in the partition proposal of the installer where you can tell what disk to use for the proposal, and then it will calculate a new proposal using that disk only. I can not tell you exactly the name of the menu(s) because I don't remember the details: I have to be doing it this instant, then I can find it easily.

...

...

PS I ask again. Is this all documented anywhere? Why do the online instructions not state these things? Or have I simply not found the correct place?

Maybe because you have not hit on them, or maybe because I have not written this tidbit. And if I did, nobody would find it.

The need for this tidbit has been mentioned on the mail lists more than once.

I'll report it to the doc team.

...

Or maybe you are not asking for this tidbit in particular.

There is a _Book_ on installing openSUSE (the startup guide). In PDF, HTML and epub. Read it. And then there is a "reference guide", also very good.

https://doc.opensuse.org/

Yes, the page that I started at was part of the startup guide. The first URL I posted was a clue!!!!!

Yep.

The reference guide doesn't cover system installation at all, AFAICT.

Yes and no. 5 Expert Partitioner 6 Installing multiple kernel versions Those are installation details. There are more chapters.

...

...

...

If the answer is UEFI and GPT, then the first move - a crucial move:

edit "/etc/default/grub".

On the line that starts "GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=..." write a name that is not opensuse, and that your UEFI likes. avoid spaces, underscores. For example, I have:

GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR="main-os"

It presently says

GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=""

Is that OK? If not how do I know what characters my UEFI likes? In particular, does it like a dot '.'?

That's the default, and you have to change it.

Nobody knows what your own computer firmware will like. Mine did not like what I wrote and I had to change it. I think it did not like dots or underscores, one of the two and I do not remember which.

How do you know it doesn't like it? Because the machine will not boot Grub. The entry for your system disappears from the _firmware_ menu.

Hmm, not something I want to experiment with.

Nobody wants! :-D We simply find ourselves that something failed, our system can not be booted, and then we find that the trouble was "wrong character" in the system name. Or any other bug in the firmware. For example, I have a laptop that an installation done to an external disk will not boot on its own. The external disk has to be listed in the internal disk EFI partition instead. This is a firmware bug (lenovo in this case). But another lenovo computer I used doesn't have this problem. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 30/12/2021 15.16, Per Jessen wrote:

Dave Howorth wrote:

...

https://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.3/iso/

but that seems to have an enormous number of possibilities. I can figure out some of it: DVD vs NET and x86_64 vs other architectures and .iso vs .iso.sha256 but I'm lost about other aspects.

What's Media vs Current all about? And what's 15.3 vs 15.3-2?

it is 15.3 and 15.3 sp2.

Second release with a newer build. SP (service pack) is SLE parlance, and in fact we are using SP3, same as the .3 in the 15.3 name. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 19:55:04 +0100 Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

Op donderdag 30 december 2021 19:00:33 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:

...

Second release with a newer build. SP (service pack) is SLE parlance, and in fact we are using SP3, same as the .3 in the 15.3 name.

To elaborate: On request of many users we now release an updated install image every 3 months. This means that users won't have to download lots of packages during or after install.

So that sounds exactly like a quarterly release, but without QU in the name. Is it? And if so, does that mean that the originals will update to the latest -3 but if I use -2 I'm stuck with that? And come to that, where is the -3 version if it now exists? (brief explanation of my pickiness. Here in the UK, documentation has legal weight. If it differs from the software, the documentation is correct and the software must be made to match. Or damages paid. So that sets my expectations, although I realize that the situation here is somewhat different.)

On 30/12/2021 22.38, Felix Miata wrote:

Dave Howorth composed on 2021-12-30 20:34 (UTC):

...

And if so, does that mean that the originals will update to the latest -3 but if I use -2 I'm stuck with that? And come to that, where is the -3 version if it now exists?

basic math logic for 15.3: june: release announcement for may build june + quarter of year = september, or august june + quarter of year + quarter of year = december, or november

What's non-obvious is whether the starting point is blank, -1 or -2. Following simple logic, a november date on a -2 file in a location where no -1 is present suggests most recent version is -2.

It is a new policy, first on 15.3.

Contrary to Carlos' suggestion, I suggest to use the NET installer if you're only going to do one or two installations, maybe even more if yet another quarterly reissue is imminent, the number of needed packages on DVD is smallish, and the number of to be installed packages since updated is largish. With the NET installer, you don't download anything you don't need, and you only download what you need once, as you're downloading the current version of each package to be installed.

Downloading is dirt cheap :-P At least, at the place I do installations and upgrades. However, network can fail at the worst moment. A full DVD install image boots faster, and often installs faster. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 31/12/2021 00.02, Bob Rogers wrote:

From: Felix Miata Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 16:38:52 -0500

Virtually the only time I use the full DVD is in the rare case that I wish to install without any network connection . . .

It can also be useful to have one lying around as a rescue DVD.

I prefer the rescue image for that job. http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/openSUSE-current/live/openSUSE-Lea... On a USB stick, it is writeable, so you can install extra packages on it, run almost anything. Even email to ask here ;-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)

From: Felix Miata Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 19:40:46 -0500 Bob Rogers composed on 2021-12-30 18:02 (UTC-0500):

From: Felix Miata composed on Thu, 30 Dec 2021 16:38:52 -0500:

Virtually the only time I use the full DVD is in the rare case that I wish to install without any network connection . . .

It can also be useful to have one lying around as a rescue DVD.

That works if you can find it, but all my PCs are multiboot, so I just boot something else to use for repair, which is much faster, especially counting the time it takes to locate and identify that rescue media . . . True, and also another argument in favor of doing fresh installs instead of "zypper dup." Except you still need something else when GRUB fails. Fortunately, that is much more rare than it used to be. -- Bob

Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

Op donderdag 30 december 2021 19:00:33 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:

...

Second release with a newer build. SP (service pack) is SLE parlance, and in fact we are using SP3, same as the .3 in the 15.3 name.

To elaborate: On request of many users we now release an updated install image every 3 months. This means that users won't have to download lots of packages during or after install.

I think I missed that announcement, but I have yet to get really started with 15.3. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.6°C)