On 09/21/2010 04:09 AM, phanisvara das wrote:

On Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:44:47 DenverD wrote:

...

everything will be rosy!

DenverD (say/muse anything else and you get labeled "FUD spreader")

+1

-- phani.

Folks I know have called it Suzy for years! -- Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* Basil Chupin (blchupin@iinet.net.au) [20100921 10:00]:

A similar post was made here 5 days ago yet you did not make a comment. Why not? And now you do, why?

I had erroneously counted on common sense spreading so that the discussion would die off by itself. Now that I (once again) see that it doesn't work I'm trying to block it off at the start. Believe me, would chris m. still maintain the lists such threads had been set ot right at the start. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 09:51 +0200, Philipp Thomas wrote:

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 00:09:14 -0700, Keith wrote:

...

What happens to SuSE? Could you please take the discussion to opensuse-ot where it belongs?

+1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 18:41 -0400, Brian K. White wrote:

On 9/21/2010 3:51 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 00:09:14 -0700, Keith wrote:

...

What happens to SuSE?

Could you please take the discussion to opensuse-ot where it belongs?

Philipp

Could you please take the intolerance to church where it belongs?

Not all hypocrites attend church. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 9/22/2010 9:43 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

This isn't Speakers Corner in Hyde Park but opensuse, a list for the discussion of technical matters of the distribution. This list has rules, rules that should be addhered to at least broadly.

Re-read the list topics. You will find that the question at hand fits quite precisely within General Questions, and user to user help. -- _____________________________________ At one time I had a Real Sig. Its been downsized. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 9/22/2010 9:55 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

* John Andersen (jsamyth@gmail.com) [20100922 18:52]:

...

You will find that the question at hand fits quite precisely within General Questions, and user to user help.

In what way are wild speculations and fortune-telling related to user to user help? With your interpretation I could fire a series of movie revies and would still be on topic.

Philipp

In what way is discussion of planning for a takeover by a possibly unsuitable holder (redhat or oracle) in any way related to movies? The devs on the Mandriva lists spent a lot of time shouting down their users too. Then they were laid off and decided to fork the distro. Why do people with suse.de email addresses spend so much time shouting down the users? Its not like the list is drowning in technical issues these days. -- _____________________________________ At one time I had a Real Sig. Its been downsized. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 09/22/2010 12:50 PM, John Andersen pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

On 9/22/2010 9:43 AM, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

This isn't Speakers Corner in Hyde Park but opensuse, a list for the discussion of technical matters of the distribution. This list has rules, rules that should be addhered to at least broadly.

Re-read the list topics.

You will find that the question at hand fits quite precisely within General Questions, and user to user help.

ABOUT *TECHNICAL* ISSUES! -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 23/09/2010 02:43, Philipp Thomas wrote:

* Brian K. White (brian@aljex.com) [20100922 00:41]:

...

Could you please take the intolerance to church where it belongs?

This isn't Speakers Corner in Hyde Park but opensuse, a list for the discussion of technical matters of the distribution. This list has rules, rules that should be addhered to at least broadly. And now you tell me what a possible, yet unconfirmed sale of Novell has to do with technical discussion.

Please think before you come up with such laughable accusations otherwise it just might backfire.

Philipp

Awww, come on - stop being so anal retentive! Give a little. Live a little. Wake up in the morning and smile - and get it over with for the rest of the day, OK? BC -- I didn't know it was impossible when I did it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 21/09/2010 17:53, C wrote:

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 09:09, Keith wrote:

...

What happens to SuSE?

You find out the same time the rest of us find out.

Those who are involved in the sale cannot comment publicly on the details of the sale. This is standard procedure with corporate buyouts.

All you can do is poke the news feeds and read up on the rumors, and not worry too much about it.

Whoever buys openSUSE will be buying it for a reason, and they will not invest a substantial chunk of money into acquiring openSUSE from Novel only to kill it off and bury the remains.

C.

You are assuming that openSUSE (or even SLE) is worth a "substantial chunk of money" aren't you? And what if it isn't? Then what? BC -- I didn't know it was impossible when I did it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday, September 21, 2010 01:17:23 am C wrote:

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:03, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

You are assuming that openSUSE (or even SLE) is worth a "substantial chunk of money" aren't you?

And what if it isn't?

Then what?

I've worked in the corporate world long enough to know that: - they don't split off parts of the business to sell separately if there is no value to them - big companies don't look to buy bits that are of no value (those bits get packaged into investment group purchases or are included in the overall sale)

openSUSE has been named as the bit that is being split off and sold separately.

So based on that... I concluded that openSUSE has at least some measurable value to the company that is purchasing that business unit. That measurable value translates into money at some point.

Could I be wrong? Certainly. I have no insider info on this. Just going by experience.

C.

Are you sure its not SLED/SLES that has a value? Reports I have read indicate SLES is turning the corner to profitability, but that says nothing about opensuse. Opensuse seems nothing but a drain on Novell, soaking up cash and returning only testing services. Can the buildservice be monitized? (Is it already)?? -- A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 09/21/2010 01:35 AM, phanisvara das wrote:

On Tuesday, September 21, 2010 13:55:13 John Andersen wrote:

...

Are you sure its not SLED/SLES that has a value?

would you get a community of developers and users (testing & offering feedback) as useful as the present one if you had only SLES? i don't think so. i (like to) think there's a value in the "open" part, not only to leeches like me...

File enough bug reports and you may be right. Even bitching about bugs on this list alerts the community to the bugs and the accumulated bitch level serves as a barometer of just how irritating a specific bug is. Gee, I feel better already. ;-) Now those telling us to shut up and stop bitching all the time have some "splainin" to do. -- Explain again the part about rm -rf / -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 9/21/2010 3:08 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

Yes, shut-up. Bitching does *not* help. Filing bugs does. Bitching does *not* reach the people who matter. It is just bitching, and irritating, and negative. Bitching is lazy and pointless.

Pardon me, did you say something? -- _____________________________________ At one time I had a Real Sig. Its been downsized. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

I think it's positive for SLES / SUSE if VMware buys Novell's Linux business. http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/09/16/five-reasons-vmware-may-buy-novell-suse-... But what does that mean for the MS - Novell licensing deal? Could get messy and nasty. On the other hand, there's commentary that VMware is much more interested in Novell's Mono IP than SLES / SUSE - owning Mono is definitely one in the eye for Microsoft .NET! Novell is also sitting on a large cash hoard, which makes it attractive to, especially, private equity companies. Mergers and acquisitions are painful, but also positive for the target - if the deal is done for the 'right' reasons and executed properly. I worked for a small, privately owned Australian software company (250 employees worldwide) making and deploying records and document management software (used by an international energy company - not BP, but on that global scale - and parts of the US DoD amongst others, but also scaling down to single seat sites). We were acquired by HP in 2008. The merger was initially rocky (cultural differences, bureaucracy, etc), but once bedded down, fantastic for R&D resourcing and new market penetration and internationalisation opportunities. HP clearly wanted a vertically integrated stack (compliance software on top of HP's document capture and automation, archiving and storage). If VMware buys Novell's Linux business, it's a compelling value proposition for VMware customers: my experience is that customers like integrated solutions from a single vendor. On 21/09/10 20:57, David C. Rankin wrote:

On 09/21/2010 02:53 AM, C wrote:

...

Whoever buys openSUSE will be buying it for a reason, and they will not invest a substantial chunk of money into acquiring openSUSE from Novel only to kill it off and bury the remains.

C

You would need to qualify that slightly by saying the possibility, though rare, may depend on the source of the capital used for the purchase. There are those with adverse motives of course... ( hypothetically MS funds the vmware purchase using vmware as the front-man, kills suse, then sues Novell and the wayward users for infringement under the MS-Novell deal). Nah -- it would never happen :p

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 21 September 2010 11:13:41 Simon Caseley wrote:

I think it's positive for SLES / SUSE if VMware buys Novell's Linux business.

http://www.thevarguy.com/2010/09/16/five-reasons-vmware-may-buy-novell- suse-linux/

But what does that mean for the MS - Novell licensing deal? Could get messy and nasty.

On the other hand, there's commentary that VMware is much more interested in Novell's Mono IP than SLES / SUSE - owning Mono is definitely one in the eye for Microsoft .NET!

Novell is also sitting on a large cash hoard, which makes it attractive to, especially, private equity companies.

Mergers and acquisitions are painful, but also positive for the target - if the deal is done for the 'right' reasons and executed properly. I worked for a small, privately owned Australian software company (250 employees worldwide) making and deploying records and document management software (used by an international energy company - not BP, but on that global scale - and parts of the US DoD amongst others, but also scaling down to single seat sites). We were acquired by HP in 2008. The merger was initially rocky (cultural differences, bureaucracy, etc), but once bedded down, fantastic for R&D resourcing and new market penetration and internationalisation opportunities. HP clearly wanted a vertically integrated stack (compliance software on top of HP's document capture and automation, archiving and storage).

If VMware buys Novell's Linux business, it's a compelling value proposition for VMware customers: my experience is that customers like integrated solutions from a single vendor.

On 21/09/10 20:57, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

On 09/21/2010 02:53 AM, C wrote:

...

Whoever buys openSUSE will be buying it for a reason, and they will not invest a substantial chunk of money into acquiring openSUSE from Novel only to kill it off and bury the remains.

C

You would need to qualify that slightly by saying the possibility, though rare, may depend on the source of the capital used for the purchase. There are those with adverse motives of course... ( hypothetically MS funds the vmware purchase using vmware as the front-man, kills suse, then sues Novell and the wayward users for infringement under the MS-Novell deal). Nah -- it would never happen :p

If anybody has mentioned the possibility of the prospective buyer of SuSE (which has been said here to be a financial burden to Novell) may be interested in acquiring it not for its commercial value, but simply as a tax loss, I haven't noticed it. But some acquisitions happen for that reason. Hopefully this is not the case here, because it would be very bad news. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 09/21/2010 04:13 AM, Simon Caseley wrote:

If VMware buys Novell's Linux business, it's a compelling value proposition for VMware customers: my experience is that customers like integrated solutions from a single vendor.

Great point Simon, I guess the uncertainty is "what does this mean for openSuSE?" It's speculation granted, but at the macro level, I don't seem much changing. If vmware wants Novell for whatever reason ...and... keeps SLES/SLED, then openSuSE should remain the test-bed/development arm for both. No company in their right mind would do away with all the free user contribution and support that goes into the opensuse pipeline. That being said, the touchstone for opensuse will hinge on their approach to either (1) maintaining opensuse as a quality opensource distro, or (2) whether they let it become a loose beta where the development is piped downstream to SLES/SLED or (3) whether they fall into the trap of shrinking release cycles to gen up revenue. The latter two are never good. We can "what if" this to death, but the bottom line is we will just have to wait and see. Regardless of whether a sale goes through, we are unlikely to have any idea of the direction any new owner will take or the consequence to opensuse until at earliest 11.5 (or whatever they call the one after 11.4) 11.4 is fairly well mapped out. My last .02 on the issue :p -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 9/21/2010 5:04 PM, Brian K. White wrote:

I see plenty of opportunity for conflicts of interest to the detriment of opensuse and any users of it. I see plenty of prior examples that showed me the hard way what to worry about, not because I'm all that much of a worrier in general.

So I say it's exactly the right time to think about things like, why do you use opensuse now? What might be vmwares motives wrt opensuse? Of the key points that cause you to use opensuse, are those points possibly met elsewhere such as centos or ubuntu ?

Personally, I chose opensuse for my company (this means all production application service boxes as well as all other backup and special purpose boxes like hylafax servers etc...) for several reasons. Some of those initial reasons have since become untrue, but the remainder have remained. I no longer think it's the "best engineered" distribution. I no longer get much value out of yast. And with this news I can't exactly continue to think it has the highest probability of staying the same over time. Switching to the 6 month release cycle has already almost killed me. It means now, _most_ of my live production boxes have _no_ official repos for me to install the occasional new requirement from. Lucky me I've been maintaining my own mirror of every version I've used along the way. I haven't gotten a functional bootloader install out of the installer in years and I always have to do it myself from a shell in the installer, except in the dead simple and utterly useless case of a single-drive-desktop. The installer now installs a kernel that is broken for server use, no matter even if you select the text-only minimal system install.

But I have found tolerable ways to deal with the bootloader and kernel-default vs kernel-desktop.

And opensuse build service is AMAZING.

SuseStudio is AMAZING.

I think rpms and the obs are way easier to use than the ubuntu launchpad ppa, and I don't know if redhat/centos even has an equivaent of the obs let along susestudio. obs and kiwi are open source so one could be set up, but how much of the amazingness is the web front ends? How much of that is available to copy or easy to re-implement?

So in my case I'm not actually doing much just yet. But I AM at least thinking ahead. For my usage, I think my best bet if I were to switch would be to Centos. I should and shall invest some time evaluating Centos and maybe others from the redhat family, and perhaps one or more of the debian family. And perhaps, since I already have to do so much myself anyways, maybe for me there is really no longer very much value in a full service distribution like suse anyways and I should just move to arch or gentoo. More responsibility but more flexibility.

The point is the initial news about the sale is EXACTLY a valid reason to begin this kind of preparing, and now is EXACTLY the time to at least start this kind of thinking.

Not necessarily to do anything. You need a little more cause than that. But neither is it smart to just pretend all is well.

Spot on. If Vmware buys the linux portions, Its been my observation that they are not particularly evil, and have a history of providing free platforms (vmware server vmware player) in support of their paid packages (Workstation) and their high end bare metal software. On the other hand Oracle is also mentioned, and if that comes to pass I'm gone. RedHat is also mentioned, and you know damn well they would more or less shutter SLES/SLED and probably jettison OpenSuee. They have done this with their own community before. So I do have to plan ahead, and I have customers running SLES today that have no clue this is coming down the pike at them. Chances are they will be just fine because SLES makes money. Someone has managed to force a cancellation of a Webinar by Don Chapman, former President of Novell Canada. Wagons being circled: http://forums.novell.com/novell-community-forums-stuff/community-chat/421211... It may not happen at all. And the software will continue to run just fine even if Novell ceases to be. No reason to rush into anything. But If I worked for OpenSuse I would be at LEAST contemplating a Fork, just as a user I'm contemplating different distros. -- _____________________________________ At one time I had a Real Sig. Its been downsized. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:57, David C. Rankin wrote:

On 09/21/2010 02:53 AM, C wrote:

...

Whoever buys openSUSE will be buying it for a reason, and they will not invest a substantial chunk of money into acquiring openSUSE from Novel only to kill it off and bury the remains.

You would need to qualify that slightly by saying the possibility, though rare, may depend on the source of the capital used for the purchase. There are those with adverse motives of course... ( hypothetically MS funds the vmware purchase using vmware as the front-man, kills suse, then sues Novell and the wayward users for infringement under the MS-Novell deal). Nah -- it would never happen :p

It's all speculation. None of us has any firm information, and those that do cannot talk about it (and I don't expect them to speak up either). C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 21/09/2010 19:39, jsa wrote:

On 09/21/2010 02:28 AM, C wrote:

...

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:57, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

On 09/21/2010 02:53 AM, C wrote:

...

Whoever buys openSUSE will be buying it for a reason, and they will not invest a substantial chunk of money into acquiring openSUSE from Novel only to kill it off and bury the remains.

You would need to qualify that slightly by saying the possibility, though rare, may depend on the source of the capital used for the purchase. There are those with adverse motives of course... ( hypothetically MS funds the vmware purchase using vmware as the front-man, kills suse, then sues Novell and the wayward users for infringement under the MS-Novell deal). Nah -- it would never happen :p

It's all speculation. None of us has any firm information, and those that do cannot talk about it (and I don't expect them to speak up either).

C.

I'm pretty sure we all know its speculation at this point. Seriously, is that all you have to offer?

In the short term, speculation seldom gets things totally wrong. (The long term is another story). If this deal is getting close to being done, and people are saying "no comment" instead of outright denials then you can pretty much guarantee the speculation in the press is pretty much spot on.

Please refresh my memory: what was the "speculation" when Novell was rumoured to about to buy SuSE? Why was Novell buying SuSE? What business plan did Novell have in doing so? What was the final result? BC -- I didn't know it was impossible when I did it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 08:12 -0700, Tony Alfrey wrote:

Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

...

El 21/09/10 03:09, Keith escribió:

...

What happens to SuSE? The lizard will take a flight to the moon just like Mr shuttleworth did. :-D .. Anyway, seriously, stop spreading FUD on this list. Remarkable. A simple question is not FUD.

Irrelevant - it is *offtopic* (and still nothing but speculation) The opensuse@ list title: "Generic questions and User to User support for the openSUSE distribution " This has nothing to do with using or supporting openSUSE. perhaps http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/general-chit-chat/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:05:04PM -0400, Michael S. Dunsaavage wrote:

On 9/21/2010 11:43 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

...

On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 08:12 -0700, Tony Alfrey wrote:

...

Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

...

El 21/09/10 03:09, Keith escribió:

...

What happens to SuSE? The lizard will take a flight to the moon just like Mr shuttleworth did. :-D .. Anyway, seriously, stop spreading FUD on this list. Remarkable. A simple question is not FUD. Irrelevant - it is *offtopic* (and still nothing but speculation)

The opensuse@ list title: "Generic questions and User to User support for the openSUSE distribution "

This has nothing to do with using or supporting openSUSE.

perhaps http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/general-chit-chat/

It says Generic questions AND user to user support. We're opensuse users/fans. It could possibly be sold. It could possibly go away. Is that something not to be concerned with? Sure seems to fall under Generic Questions to me.

The questions were loaded with negative content already, thats the problem. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday, 2010-09-21 at 18:08 +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:

The questions were loaded with negative content already, thats the problem.

I think you suse/novell people are being oversensitive. IMO, you should simple shut up and ride the tide, calmly. If you do know something, you can not tell. And if you say something, people may thing that you say whatever because you know. Thus better say nothing. The classical "no comment" ;-) And that includes not trying to tell others to shut up, either: it is not very tactful >;-) -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

El 21/09/10 22:00, Carlos E. R. escribió:

...

If you do know something, you can not tell. And if you say something, people may thing that you say whatever because you know.

Rest assured, we know as much as you or whatever other person that reads the news, and in the _very_ unlikely case we happend to get more info, cannot tell :-P

The best thing we can do is stop speculating and wait from an statement from the board or other authoritative source.

your opinion is wait and see, mine is the very best thing we (this open source Community) can do is make some reasonable, preliminary and coordinated plans on what steps might be taken to mitigate potential obstacles to continuation without corporate sponsorship; for example: 1. save/backup to a non-Novell sponsored location every one and zero which makes up the current state, and following incremental snaps of a. wiki (old and new) b. mail lists archives c. ML address db d. forums message db e. forums membership ID/address db f. all other data, text, artwork, etc etc etc at opensuse.org g. all at opensuse-community.org h. other ?? 2. establish a non-corporate, on-line "rally point" where members, contributors, volunteers, ambassadors, enthusiast, users and interested others can reconnect if (in the worst case) all Community communications links suddenly go dark/silent, and stay that way.. 3. other ?? DenverD -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 9/21/2010 1:47 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 12:05 -0400, Michael S. Dunsaavage wrote:

...

...

...

Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

...

El 21/09/10 03:09, Keith escribió:

...

What happens to SuSE? The lizard will take a flight to the moon just like Mr shuttleworth did. :-D .. Anyway, seriously, stop spreading FUD on this list. Remarkable. A simple question is not FUD. Irrelevant - it is *offtopic* (and still nothing but speculation) The opensuse@ list title: "Generic questions and User to User support for the openSUSE distribution " This has nothing to do with using or supporting openSUSE.

On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 08:12 -0700, Tony Alfrey wrote: perhaps http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/general-chit-chat/ It says Generic questions AND user to user support. We're opensuse users/fans. It could possibly be sold. It could possibly go away. Is

On 9/21/2010 11:43 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: that something not to be concerned with? Sure seems to fall under Generic Questions to me.

*OR* it could take off like a rocket-ship! The support staff could be tripled! Who knows... not you, not I, nor anyone who is going to comment on this thread.

This conversation is just good old-fashioned stupid; the only purpose it can serve is to excite the nattering nabobs.

Someone should really revise this list description to more effectively exclude this kind of thing.

Someone should really learn the value of planning ahead. Planning starts with pondering possibilities. WTF else was that question than initiating pondering possibilities? If you want to say it was "loaded with negative connotations" or other crap like that, then I say that says more about you than about the original poster. Find some other way to feel justified in bullying people you don't know. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 19:33 -0400, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

El 21/09/10 19:06, Brian K. White escribió:

...

Someone should really learn the value of planning ahead.

So you want us to "guess" ? let me sacrifice a goat and light a circle NOTE: Column C is the CPU time in percent. The time available is the number of CPU cores times 100. On the test system there is 200 available. of fire...

I think the speculation has the potential to be useful. The questions asked and opinions offered are, indeed, all guesswork. But what does arise from the speculations are questions like: Would the purchase even include openSUSE? openSUSE is indeed funded heavily by Novell in the form of workers. But that is not the same as saying it is owned by Novell. Should our question here be not so much who is buying openSUSE as who will continue to support openSUSE should the new owners of Novell fail to do so? The list members pondering the future could indeed begin to see how openSUSE could survive loss of funding/workers by Novell, should that come to pass. What are the other options for funding? For example, do Nokia/intel contribute financially for the use of OBS for Meego? Another question is: what tools used to maintain openSUSE are owned by Novell and not by openSUSE? Are openSUSE free to continue using those tools even if Novell exit the picture? I do not think the answer to either of these things is speculation, as it must surely be described in the openSUSE project charter. I think that even if Novell were not for sale and future support not decided, these are interesting questions.

...

Planning starts with pondering possibilities.

++1

reality backed by evidence is what is required to start planning, you can't plan with rumours and suppositions, that's the definition of guessing.

It is even harder to plan if you ignore the question. I do not think anyone is really expecting answers. We all are intelligent enough to get the fact that nothing is known at this time. But that does not mean that the questions do not exist. And they can surely be asked. It is only the answers that are missing. In asking the questions, you can begin to formulate dealing with possible answers so that when they do arrive, you might be just that little bit more prepared. Or not. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 9/21/2010 8:43 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

"Generic questions

That covers it in my book. By the way, who appointed your List Gestapo? -- _____________________________________ At one time I had a Real Sig. Its been downsized. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2010-09-21 Patrick offered the following:

* John Andersen [09-21-10 15:08]:

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On 9/21/2010 8:43 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

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"Generic questions

That covers it in my book.

By the way, who appointed your List Gestapo?

Careful, you are displaying your abundant ignorance.

Come-on....if anything, he was just following in your foot steps....more likely, he was just asking another pertinent question. It's been months since you've said anything constructive. I know you can be, but I can't remember the last time you chose to exercise that ability. As BKW and others have aptly noted, while this topic may be somewhat off- topic, it is certainly pertinent to openSuSE's future and head-in-the-sand approaches to issues like the future of this distro are not particularly productive. I would remind you that speculation and guesswork got humanity into space and to the moon because people asked questions about things for which there were no answers and only speculations as to what might be IF. Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

El 21/09/10 12:40, DenverD escribió:

i find it more than remarkable, this head in sand approach to the potential futures..

I'm just not fond on the fortune-teller business. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

El 21/09/10 19:29, Chris Worley escribió:

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Will Novell then change its pro-Linux stance and (with AT&T SVR4 copyrights) become the next SCO?

what has that to do with linux and with opensuse ? *nothing*.

Really? Where is Caldera today? Maybe Marcus may know. So perhaps it just /may/ have something very much to do with linux and openSuSE. This is the gist of the queries regarding the outcome of Novell. -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 18:52, Philipp Thomas wrote:

* Tony Alfrey (tonyalfrey@earthlink.net) [20100922 01:49]:

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This is the gist of the queries regarding the outcome of Novell.

Then take this discussion where it belongs, like opensuse-project for instance.

You know... if you look at this thread.. it's not dominated by speculation and discussion about the original topic.. it's flooded with you numpties complaining about the stupid topic being off topic... If you guys would have stopped trying to be list police and let the thread die, it would have died a couple dozen messages ago. Haha, you list police are WAY more off topic than the original thread ever was.. Take a deep breath... Give it a rest. Maybe go police something else for a while. Get it out of your systems... and I bet you this thread will go quietly into the mail archives. Or not... whatever. Enjoy your playground antics guys :-) C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sincere apologies on line wrap not working at 72 characters. Thunderbird doing something dumb. -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday, 2010-09-23 at 01:11 +0200, Philipp Thomas wrote:

They do not fit the topic of the list.

That's only your opinion. Others think differently :-) -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 23 September 2010 01:11:41 Philipp Thomas wrote:

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:17:51 -0700, Tony Alfrey

wrote:

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osted topics and remarks that do not precisely fit their preconceived notion of acceptability.

They do not fit the topic of the list. And what would be so bad about moving this discussion to the offtopic list? But I'm giving up. Maybe it's really time for me to unsubscribe and go where I get what I wanted in the first place: technical discussions. EOD for me.

Nicely done guys.</sarcasm> While you are congratulating yourselves on running the "list police" out of town, remember that Philipp is one of my few low level SUSE colleagues who cared enough to spend time in here solving user problems down the bottom of the stack. Are you going to step up and answer those now, between enjoying your hard-won freedom to discuss the sky falling? Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* DenverD [09-23-10 03:14]:

Philipp wanted to play using the rules as _he_ understood them, and when he couldn't bully the rest into accepting his opinion as the *only* possible factual understanding of the published "Generic questions and User to User support for the openSUSE distribution" [cite: http://lists.opensuse.org/] he picked up *his* ball and went home..

he was no more "run out of town" than is anyone who is frustrated by reality, and leaves of their own free will when they can't have it the way they want it, without discussion.

No, he considers the signal-to-noise ration out of sight and cannot be bothered anymore sorting the wheat from the chaff. We miss you Chris. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday, September 23, 2010 18:33:19 Patrick Shanahan wrote:

No, he considers the signal-to-noise ration out of sight and cannot be bothered anymore sorting the wheat from the chaff.

understandable, but a simple "ignore thread" would have been sufficient. leaving the list seems like over-reaction to me... -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* DenverD [09-23-10 03:14]:

...

Philipp wanted to play using the rules as _he_ understood them, and when he couldn't bully the rest into accepting his opinion as the *only* possible factual understanding of the published "Generic questions and User to User support for the openSUSE distribution" [cite: http://lists.opensuse.org/] he picked up *his* ball and went home..

he was no more "run out of town" than is anyone who is frustrated by reality, and leaves of their own free will when they can't have it the way they want it, without discussion.

No, he considers the signal-to-noise ration out of sight and cannot be bothered anymore sorting the wheat from the chaff.

We miss you Chris.

Here we go AGAIN, someone that don't want to use the - frickin' - DELETE - key. I'm on five different lists and if I complained to every list about "sorting the wheat from the chaff", I would not be subscribed to anyone of them - including - this - one !!! SO - HOW - FRICKIN' - HARD - IS - IT - TO - HIT - THE - DELETE - KEY - ? NOW - LET'S - MOVE - ON - ! -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 dahechler@att.net www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com -- Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2010-09-23 Ken offered the following:

On 09/23/2010 11:32 AM, Duaine Hechler pecked at the keyboard and wrote: <snip> Anyone that believes that a major change in openSUSE is going to cause them to lose their job is in the wrong line of work.

I don't think the issue is a change of openSUSE *causing* a change that causes them to lose their job...but a potential change in NOVELL or it's ownership that might change the focus of that company that *would* change or eliminate their job, especially insofar as its relationship to FOSS and / or openSUSE thus potentially changing openSUSE. Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday, 2010-09-23 at 08:21 +0200, Will Stephenson wrote:

On Thursday 23 September 2010 01:11:41 Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:17:51 -0700, Tony Alfrey <> wrote:

...

osted topics and remarks that do not precisely fit their preconceived notion of acceptability.

They do not fit the topic of the list. And what would be so bad about moving this discussion to the offtopic list? But I'm giving up. Maybe it's really time for me to unsubscribe and go where I get what I wanted in the first place: technical discussions. EOD for me.

Nicely done guys.</sarcasm>

While you are congratulating yourselves on running the "list police" out of town, remember that Philipp is one of my few low level SUSE colleagues who cared enough to spend time in here solving user problems down the bottom of the stack. Are you going to step up and answer those now, between enjoying your hard-won freedom to discuss the sky falling?

It pains me learning he has left the list. But it also pains me that he entered the fry to try to shut up the discussion, being staff. Staff should not enter these threads, as they can not contribute anything they really know, and should not even give that impression. So please, just stand by the curb side. The only thing any of you wanting the rest to shut up will get is angering people. -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 9/23/2010 2:21 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:

On Thursday 23 September 2010 01:11:41 Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:17:51 -0700, Tony Alfrey

wrote:

...

osted topics and remarks that do not precisely fit their preconceived notion of acceptability.

They do not fit the topic of the list. And what would be so bad about moving this discussion to the offtopic list? But I'm giving up. Maybe it's really time for me to unsubscribe and go where I get what I wanted in the first place: technical discussions. EOD for me.

Nicely done guys.</sarcasm>

While you are congratulating yourselves on running the "list police" out of town, remember that Philipp is one of my few low level SUSE colleagues who cared enough to spend time in here solving user problems down the bottom of the stack. Are you going to step up and answer those now, between enjoying your hard-won freedom to discuss the sky falling?

I have low level knowledge and insights about the "hard" stuff in other areas. How come I can happily answer questions I have in depth knowledge of in this and other technical groups without careing what other people talk about? How come most of the people with most arcane inside and low level knowledge I look up to from other lists routinely do the same with no fuss? I never see them trying to tell anyone else what to talk about. They simply don't participate in threads that don't interest them and don't respond to questions that don't rate their attention. Simple! No one needs a primadonna that bad. No product or service or person is that irreplaceable. So no, if it's _really_ like that, then big whup. See ya. If someone had been say, personally attacking or otherwise disrespecting someone who was giving of themselves, that would be one thing. But that is not what's happening here. The guru is twisting his own shorts in a bunch and that's not my or anyone elses responsibility. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org