Le 24/04/2018 à 19:06, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

Not the same problem at all. His posts use something that is called "base64", I think, which the mail list server does not support. Look at it in his mail. It has this aspect:

this is something related with non text content: image, binary, virus :-(, reason why it have to be coded better send to list text only messages... jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 24/04/2018 à 20:18, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

He sent text only messages. The mail client or perhaps his mail server encoded as base64, which is perfectly valid and legal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base64

say: "Base64 is a group of similar binary-to-text encoding schemes that represent binary data in an ASCII string format by translating it into a radix-64 representation. " *binary*, not text. It may be a bug on our side, but probably also from his side, the mail should have been completely rejected (it would be on my own server jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Tuesday, 2018-04-24 at 20:26 +0200, jdd@dodin.org wrote:

...

*binary*, not text. It may be a bug on our side, but probably also from his side, the mail should have been completely rejected (it would be on my own server

Not at all. The moment you read his messages you can see that the decoding is plain text. It can be used to encoded binary, but it is not the case.

But you can't read his msg unless you decode the binary-encoding base64 segment. I think it is the same problem: an MS format, cuz an up-stream mail-router (that shouldn't be scanning my emails). I did as you suggested below (control-U) on his messsage in tbird: I don't see base64, but: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-MIME-Notice: attachments may have been removed from this message Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by mail4c25.carrierzone.com id w3OE3li5024268 On 04/24/2018 03:41 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Do "ctrl-u" on your own message, page to the end of it, and you will see the "issue" :-) ...

--------------------

Look:

In thunderbird, on one of his posts, do ctrl-U to see the raw message. Select the base64 section and paste it into a new file in an editor:

+++............. SGksDQoNCkkgdHJpZWQgdG8gYm9vdCBteSBvbGQgTGVub3ZvIFI2MSB0byBMZWFwIDE1LjAgbGl2 ZSwgZnJvbSBVU0IgYW5kIGZyb20NCkRWRCwgYnV0IGl0IGRpZG4ndCB3b3JrLg0KDQpCb3RoIEwx NSBtZWRpYSBib290IG15IG90aGVyIGNvbXB1dGVycyBvaywgYW5kIG90aGVyIGJvb3RhYmxlIG1l ZGlhIGJvb3QNCm15IExlbm92byBmaW5lLg0KDQpJIGFtIHRoaW5raW5nIG9mIEVGSS4gTXkgUjYx IGhhcyBubyBFRkkuIEkgd2FuZGVyIGlmIEwxNSBkb2Vzbid0IHN1cHBvcnQNCmJvb3Qgb24gbGVn YWN5IEJJT1MgbWFjaGluZXM/IElzIHRoZXJlIGFueWJvZHkgb24gbGlzdCB0byBjb25maXJtIG9y DQpvcHBvc2UgdGhpcz8NCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpSLlNvc2tpYw0KDQoNCg== .............++-

Then run: "base64 -d that_file" and you will see the decoded text of the message:

I don't see the base64...My lying sack of doodoo ISP pre-decodes it to scan it (something I've complained about multiple times, each time them claiming they don't scan it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2018-04-25 01:03, L A Walsh wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On Tuesday, 2018-04-24 at 20:26 +0200, jdd@dodin.org wrote:

...

*binary*, not text. It may be a bug on our side, but probably also from his side, the mail should have been completely rejected (it would be on my own server

Not at all. The moment you read his messages you can see that the decoding is plain text. It can be used to encoded binary, but it is not the case.

---

I referred to read his message in Thunderbird, as you read any other message. Thunderbird automatically decodes it when necessary. As should any compliant mail client.

The base64 encoded part ends though - after that, there is a blank line plus the mlmmj signature. My Knode doesn't read the latter as base64, it just ignores it.

...

But you can't read his msg unless you decode the binary-encoding base64 segment.  I think it is the same problem: an MS format, cuz an up-stream mail-router (that shouldn't be scanning my emails).  I did as you suggested below (control-U) on his messsage in tbird:

I don't see base64, but: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-MIME-Notice: attachments may have been removed from this message Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by mail4c25.carrierzone.com id w3OE3li5024268

There you have, someone decoded it in transit. Similarly, I think someone codes his.

It doesn't look like it was recoded and it is also DKIM signed.

In any case, none of that matters. Base64 is a valid encoding for email. The problem is that the list software adds a footer in plain text to the email, without considering that it is encoded. This is a bug, known for years.

Yes, mlmmj should probably not be adding anything when the text is base64 encoded.

When the mail arrives at our clients, they assume all the body is encoded, with the result that the footer decodes as garbage.

The email client should probably not be decoding non-base64 text. Debatable. Anyway, isn't this a bit off-topic? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.1°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 24/04/2018 à 15:10, Radule Šoškić a écrit :

This R61 currently runs OpenSUSE 42.3 (after a loong sequence of previous OpenSUSE upgrades). I never had issues with OS on this laptop before.

so it's really 64bits and should run 15, good. may be you have a dvd reader and could try it? jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 24/04/2018 à 19:07, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

On 2018-04-24 15:51, jdd@dodin.org wrote:

...

may be you have a dvd reader and could try it?

He already did. An internal one, I understood.

I see it after writing is there some way to debug such early boot problem? I happen to have some and don't know really how to do it. I use to blame faulty bios/uefi :-( jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 24/04/2018 à 20:20, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Tuesday, 2018-04-24 at 19:10 +0200, jdd@dodin.org wrote:

...

is there some way to debug such early boot problem?

Testing many times, take videos?

many time, there is no message at all. In virtual machine, one may have logs, but on real one? bios debug :-( jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 04/24/2018 01:57 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2018-04-24 12:39, Radule Šoškić wrote:

...

Hi,

I tried to boot my old Lenovo R61 to Leap 15.0 live, from USB and from DVD, but it didn't work.

Both L15 media boot my other computers ok, and other bootable media boot my Lenovo fine.

I am thinking of EFI. My R61 has no EFI. I wander if L15 doesn't support boot on legacy BIOS machines? Is there anybody on list to confirm or oppose this?

The 15 boot media can certainly boot pure BIOS machines. I have tested it on mt laptop, but two weeks ago. However, one of my sticks would not boot, so I had to use another brand. I never had boot problems with sticks till 15.0.

Thank you for your answer. I'll try different stiks. Hope my vintage R61 is not for garbage yet. Knowing that other people had problems with USB sticks gives soma hope. What worries me - even DVD could'n boot. I'll check it on other machines and see. Best regards, RS

On 04/24/2018 03:17 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 04/24/2018 01:57 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

I have not tried DVD, except on a virtual machine just now.

I didn't know of other people having problems till your post.

If the machine already has openSUSE, you may be able to upgrade using zypper dup.

I know, (I'm on 42.3 now) but it would be very annoying if that happens to be the only option left. I never upgraded through net before. What I did in the past was to burn a DVD, boot it and do either upgrade or clean install. My history of using OpenSUSE is very long (small major version numbers, "U" was still "u", and there was "Professional" in the name); my machines have never been "the latest and greatest" ones, on the contrary, but this is first time I have problems with live OS media. I think it couldn't be the RAM capacity issue (another post pointed to that). The problem arises in a very early stage - usb is not recognized as a bootable device. At that time, I guess nothing much is loaded in memory yet. That's why I suspected on BIOS/UEFI in my first post. My iso is verified OK. I'll try dd to some usb v2 first (this one is v3) and see. Thank you again for your answers, RS

??----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2018-04-24 at 14:00 -0000, Radule Šoškić wrote:

On 04/24/2018 03:17 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

On 04/24/2018 01:57 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

I have not tried DVD, except on a virtual machine just now.

I didn't know of other people having problems till your post.

If the machine already has openSUSE, you may be able to upgrade using zypper dup.

I know, (I'm on 42.3 now) but it would be very annoying if that happens to be the only option left.

Indeed.

I never upgraded through net before. What I did in the past was to burn a DVD, boot it and do either upgrade or clean install.

Same here. And it is a problem not being able to boot the rescue media if there is a problem later.

My history of using OpenSUSE is very long (small major version numbers, "U" was still "u", and there was "Professional" in the name); my machines have never been "the latest and greatest" ones, on the contrary, but this is first time I have problems with live OS media.

Same here.

I think it couldn't be the RAM capacity issue (another post pointed to that). The problem arises in a very early stage - usb is not recognized as a bootable device. At that time, I guess nothing much is loaded in memory yet. That's why I suspected on BIOS/UEFI in my first post.

No, RAM can not be an issue that early.

My iso is verified OK. I'll try dd to some usb v2 first (this one is v3) and see.

Yes, indeed, try another USB socket. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlrfdsYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WhiQCeO7WAzgNrElE8cMR/lKDJey2c NL4An0czGiVnoqSy6ill67tQYIMDolVd =z3XZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Thanx for answer. See my reply inline. On 04/24/2018 01:58 PM, jdd@dodin.org wrote:

Le 24/04/2018 à 12:39, Radule Šoškić a écrit :

...

Hi,

I tried to boot my old Lenovo R61 to Leap 15.0 live, from USB and from DVD, but it didn't work.

Both L15 media boot my other computers ok, and other bootable media boot my Lenovo fine.

I am thinking of EFI. My R61 has no EFI. I wander if L15 doesn't support boot on legacy BIOS machines? Is there anybody on list to confirm or oppose this?

is it a 64 bits computer? not clear here:

https://support.lenovo.com/fr/fr/solutions/pd013965#arc

else, is there enough memory? it sufely needs at least 1Gb, may be 2

It is 64bit, with 2Gb RAM. (Or more, I'll check later. But >=2Gb for sure). Regards, RS

On 04/24/2018 03:58 PM, jdd@dodin.org wrote:

so it should boot.

but at what moment of the boot does it fail? do you see the first menu?

jdd

No, it hangs at usb stick recognition. Blank screen and skip to normal boot after timeout. My BIOS seems to not see it as a bootable device. But other comp's BIOSes do. And other usbs boot OK on this comp. Reagarding your other post - yes I tried DVD. No boot as well. But I did not test DVD on other comps. The next is to make another usb stick and try. Also, to check this dvd on another computer. Didn't have one with dvd drive at hand but I'll do it asap. Thank you for answers and best regards, RS

Le 24/04/2018 à 16:15, jdd@dodin.org a écrit :

I already had similar problems, but tried too many things at the moment to identify the problem :-(

thinking aloud... on one of my laptops, I can't boot the usb pen in uefi mode, I *have* to boot it on legacy (CSM) mode, and of course it installs in legacy grub2 -non efi) and mbr dunno why, in the boot menu there is only this option that works (dell vostro) jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2018-04-25 08:47, Radule Šoškić wrote:

Hi again,

I took another USB stick (v2, 4Gb, some no-name sh*t) and dd-ed Leap 15.0 iso to it. Now my R61 boots fine.

The previous one was a shiny Kingston DTSE9-G2, v3, 64Gb.

So, the main problem seems to be solved now.

Well, it is the exact same issue I had. The one that failed for me was a Verbatim (8gigs), if I remember correctly. Brand new, I opened the shop plastic casing. If don't remember correctly, well, I only use reputable brand names. Not recently bought, I bought a bunch of 8 gigs a year or two ago. The only difference is that I did not try a DVD. I think I also tried downloading again the image. And I think that the problem stick did boot a previous Leap 15 release, but of this I have my doubts. I think I wrote about this somewhere. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)