SPAM: Buy? Download? ... or wait and see?
Barring the unforseen, SUSE 10.2 should be released next month. I'm curious as to how many people are likely to buy the boxed set, how many will download the then-current OpenSUSE version, and how many are likely to just sit and wait for a few months before trying. Does Novell even notice the amount of cash that comes in from purchases of the boxed set? I don't mean the enterprise stuff, where the money is in the support contract. I mean the (whatever they're going to name it this time) desktop version that home and small-biz users have been buying for years. I have this notion that we are an ever-shrinking club that don't even defray the cost of a single programmer anymore, with everybody else downloading the free version. But no data to support the suspicion. :-) With me, I think it's more tradition than anything else. Kevin (who will _try_ to wait this time....) The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer without copying or disclosing it.
mlist@safenet-inc.com wrote:
Barring the unforseen, SUSE 10.2 should be released next month.
I'm curious as to how many people are likely to buy the boxed set, how many will download the then-current OpenSUSE version, and how many are likely to just sit and wait for a few months before trying.
I've been buying each SuSE version (multiple copies of each) since 5.3. 10.1 is the first SuSE ISO that I downloaded and tried, this because I couldn't get the boxed set in my area for some unknown reason. In my opinion, the ISO is a subset of the full boxed-set that makes the box worth the money. Packages not in the ISO, that I noticed, include dvgrab and g77 FORTRAN. The dual-layer DVD with X86 and AMD-64 support is also valuable to me. Sure, the missing packages could be installed, but I'd rather not take the time and effort. I'll be purchasing a half-dozen 10.2's when I can. Regards, Lew Wolfgang
Lew Wolfgang wrote:
mlist@safenet-inc.com wrote:
Barring the unforseen, SUSE 10.2 should be released next month.
I'm astonished! I thought it would come out in late December! In any case, I expect to purchase the box set sometime in March, after the usual complaints and posting of fixes for those complaints by Novell. -- Best regards, Dennis J. Tuchler
On Fri, October 13, 2006 11:06 am, Dennis J. Tuchler wrote:
Lew Wolfgang wrote:
mlist@safenet-inc.com wrote:
Barring the unforseen, SUSE 10.2 should be released next month.
I'm astonished! I thought it would come out in late December! In any case, I expect to purchase the box set sometime in March, after the usual complaints and posting of fixes for those complaints by Novell.
Heh, ain't that the truth. I'm so happy I've got 10.1 working perfect on my three systems, I don't dare touch 10.2 for a loooong time! -- Kai Ponte www.perfectreign.com || www.4thedadz.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request
On Friday 13 October 2006 18:25, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
mlist@safenet-inc.com wrote:
Barring the unforseen, SUSE 10.2 should be released next month.
I'm curious as to how many people are likely to buy the boxed set, how many will download the then-current OpenSUSE version, and how many are likely to just sit and wait for a few months before trying.
I'll be purchasing a half-dozen 10.2's when I can. Lew Wolfgang
If 10.2 works I'll be buying it. Matthew
On Mon, 2006-10-16 at 11:27 +0100, Matthew Stringer wrote:
On Friday 13 October 2006 18:25, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
mlist@safenet-inc.com wrote:
Barring the unforseen, SUSE 10.2 should be released next month.
I'm curious as to how many people are likely to buy the boxed set, how many will download the then-current OpenSUSE version, and how many are likely to just sit and wait for a few months before trying.
I'll be purchasing a half-dozen 10.2's when I can. Lew Wolfgang
If 10.2 works I'll be buying it.
I always give it two months to see if its worth the time. CWSIV
* mlist@safenet-inc.com
I'm curious as to how many people are likely to buy the boxed set, how many will download the then-current OpenSUSE version, and how many are likely to just sit and wait for a few months before trying.
I will buy, but will probably also dl the iso. I am so happy with 10.1 that I may not install 10.2.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2006-10-13 at 16:13 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
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X'-) I like that. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFMCcetTMYHG2NR9URAq2bAJ9UWOJhQKjizTo3XYRZI6sz911xYwCfcZpf NuxQmjyDckL1Sp+YTq95Kjs= =l22H -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Fri October 13 2006 1:04 pm, mlist@safenet-inc.com wrote:
Barring the unforseen, SUSE 10.2 should be released next month.
I'm curious as to how many people are likely to buy the boxed set, how many will download the then-current OpenSUSE version, and how many are likely to just sit and wait for a few months before trying.
I am just now downloading the remastered 10.1, so I will probably stick with it til I see how 10.2 works out. Can't really afford the buy the boxed version, much as I would like to and have in the past. Poverty is real here. -- Bob Rea mailto:gapetard@stsams.org http://www.petard.us http://www.petard.us/blog http://www.petard.us/gallery Freedom is only privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all --Billy Bragg
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2006-10-13 at 13:04 -0400, mlist@safenet-inc.com wrote:
Barring the unforseen, SUSE 10.2 should be released next month.
I'm curious as to how many people are likely to buy the boxed set,
Not unless they include again the admin book in paper.
how many will download the then-current OpenSUSE version, and how many are likely to just sit and wait for a few months before trying.
I'll certainly wait, perhaps enven for 10.3 - not because of any known problem, but because I don't want to update so often. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFMCa6tTMYHG2NR9URArbJAKCNnOLSDsgOXQGZjJOs+UoDETXyWACfc/Hj Qina1MBsDEL4L8Af0+cm6Jg= =ZRQe -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
mlist@safenet-inc.com wrote:
Barring the unforseen, SUSE 10.2 should be released next month.
I'm curious as to how many people are likely to buy the boxed set, how many will download the then-current OpenSUSE version, and how many are likely to just sit and wait for a few months before trying.
Does Novell even notice the amount of cash that comes in from purchases of the boxed set? I don't mean the enterprise stuff, where the money is in the support contract. I mean the (whatever they're going to name it this time) desktop version that home and small-biz users have been buying for years.
I have this notion that we are an ever-shrinking club that don't even defray the cost of a single programmer anymore, with everybody else downloading the free version. But no data to support the suspicion. :-)
With me, I think it's more tradition than anything else.
Kevin (who will _try_ to wait this time....)
The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer without copying or disclosing it.
In my opinion, the Community/OpenSource version that people download free is really a testing ground for the latest greatest stuff (latest kernels, hardware support, latest software, etc.). If you want something reliable and stable for your business, even small business, I would recommend using an Enterprise (Desktop) Linux. Not all distros separate the server from the desktop. Some include it all and you can choose what to install. That's not true of SUSE Linux Enterprise, which has a Server (SLES) 10 and Desktop version, SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED). John
John, On Friday 13 October 2006 17:17, John wrote:
...
In my opinion, the Community/OpenSource version that people download free is really a testing ground for the latest greatest stuff (latest kernels, hardware support, latest software, etc.).
If you want something reliable and stable for your business, even small business, I would recommend using an Enterprise (Desktop) Linux. Not all distros separate the server from the desktop. Some include it all and you can choose what to install. That's not true of SUSE Linux Enterprise, which has a Server (SLES) 10 and Desktop version, SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED).
It all depends. ... On lots of things, of course... As of a couple days ago, I'm running 10.2a5 because the hardware I just bought is new enough to require kernel 2.6.18 as well as some hardware drivers that other distributions (ubuntu and FC6 being the ones I tried) do not have. Even so, there's one ethernet port on my new box that is inaccessible because the mainboard vendor apparently does not reflect proper device identity information (or something of that sort--I'm kind of out of my element at that level). And the JMicron IDE / ATA hardware that's separate from the Intel ICH chip is still inaccessible, even though my research indicates the fixes required to make it work are in the 2.6.18 kernel. Nonetheless, I'm using 10.2 and so far, I'm fairly favorably disposed. For a system of its size and and alpha release, it's doing pretty well. But for now I'm only using it to explore the new software. When a more solid beta or the final release becomes available, I may shift more of my primary operations to it. And yes, I'll probably buy it. I'm just like that. I like the fully bundled non-OSS components, e.g., and I strongly wish to minimize the amount of hunting and gathering required to put together a software configuration to my linking staring from only OSS packages.
John
Randall Schulz
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2006-10-13 at 18:17 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
And yes, I'll probably buy it. I'm just like that. I like the fully bundled non-OSS components, e.g., and I strongly wish to minimize the amount of hunting and gathering required to put together a software configuration to my linking staring from only OSS packages.
What packages are in the paid dvd that are not in the oss plus non-oss tree? Because if you mean real multimedia, you still have to fish them out from somewhere else, SuSE ones are "crippled". That's the only thing I could not find in the free dvd or ftp trees. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFMEEttTMYHG2NR9URAhH8AJ48PkvkOSEbAxVJf5ttuANH8phVOgCgmBmx O6CAt6vlahiRQBMAOtss5mk= =xGkd -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Carlos, On Friday 13 October 2006 18:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
What packages are in the paid dvd that are not in the oss plus non-oss tree?
I don't know. Perhaps none, but the non-OSS release isn't put on-line until quite a while after the commercial release, conveniently all-in-one, is out.
Because if you mean real multimedia, you still have to fish them out from somewhere else, SuSE ones are "crippled". That's the only thing I could not find in the free dvd or ftp trees.
I've pretty much switched to my Macs for media purposes. It's clearly an area where Mac OS X has the upper hand.
Carlos E. R.
Randall Schulz
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2006-10-13 at 19:38 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Friday 13 October 2006 18:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
What packages are in the paid dvd that are not in the oss plus non-oss tree?
I don't know. Perhaps none, but the non-OSS release isn't put on-line until quite a while after the commercial release, conveniently all-in-one, is out.
Nononono. That is not so. It was so two years ago, SuSE 9.3 was the last commercial version that was published weeks before the download version. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFMMI9tTMYHG2NR9URAgKCAJ9CEQA7VZtGf1D7jOEd4b/ONTanBACfUTeD RnI8DqeZVcU48330QUD0VaY= =bP9v -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Carlos, On Saturday 14 October 2006 03:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
Nononono. That is not so. It was so two years ago, SuSE 9.3 was the last commercial version that was published weeks before the download version.
Are you sure? That's not how I remember the 10.0 release. I have a distinct recollection that there was still some advantage (beyond one paltry printed manual) for the boxed edition and I thought it was the non-OSS DVD.
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
Randall Schulz
On Saturday 14 October 2006 06:17, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Carlos,
On Saturday 14 October 2006 03:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
Nononono. That is not so. It was so two years ago, SuSE 9.3 was the last commercial version that was published weeks before the download version.
Are you sure? That's not how I remember the 10.0 release. I have a distinct recollection that there was still some advantage (beyond one paltry printed manual) for the boxed edition and I thought it was the non-OSS DVD.
To correct myself: "... I thought it was the _earlier availability of the_ non-OSS DVD." Randall Schulz
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-10-14 at 06:17 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Saturday 14 October 2006 03:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
Nononono. That is not so. It was so two years ago, SuSE 9.3 was the last commercial version that was published weeks before the download version.
Are you sure? That's not how I remember the 10.0 release. I have a distinct recollection that there was still some advantage (beyond one paltry printed manual) for the boxed edition and I thought it was the non-OSS DVD.
It started with 10.0 ans was improved with 10.1. You notice if you see the CDs isos: 4 or 5 OSS, one non-oss. The DVD iso contains both sets. What it doesn't contain is some commercial samples or programs by special license the commercial DVD had previously. I don't know if they have some now, they haven't said if so. That's why I asked. The only current advantage of the commercial DVD I know of, is that, being double layer, it contains more software than the iso one, which we have to download separately from the official repository - for instance, hylafax. It is a nuisance when updating, many things can't be updated and are removed. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFMOiHtTMYHG2NR9URAk/jAJ93qwD1Y2yypy2EO4ZIj19M4AA0zACfbW8/ g+duFnEBHmj7tVux8wyLU1E= =IL98 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Carlos, On Saturday 14 October 2006 06:39, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Saturday 2006-10-14 at 06:17 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Saturday 14 October 2006 03:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
Nononono. That is not so. It was so two years ago, SuSE 9.3 was the last commercial version that was published weeks before the download version.
Are you sure? That's not how I remember the 10.0 release. I have a distinct recollection that there was still some advantage (beyond one paltry printed manual) for the boxed edition and I thought it was the non-OSS DVD.
It started with 10.0 ans was improved with 10.1. You notice if you see the CDs isos: 4 or 5 OSS, one non-oss. The DVD iso contains both sets.
What it doesn't contain is some commercial samples or programs by special license the commercial DVD had previously. I don't know if they have some now, they haven't said if so. That's why I asked.
The only current advantage of the commercial DVD I know of, is that, being double layer, it contains more software than the iso one, which we have to download separately from the official repository - for instance, hylafax. It is a nuisance when updating, many things can't be updated and are removed.
Right, right. The dual-layer thing. I almost forgot that, despite the fact that I wanted to duplicate the 10.0 DVD for a colleague a few weeks ago and realized I had no dual-layer blanks... Anyway, at the moment I know that the complement of Java packages on the 10.2a5 DVD (image) is paltry by comparison to that included in 10.0 commercial DVD. Since I use and ever-growing number of these library packages, I really value the convenience of installing them without having to hunt them down on the web, often not finding RPMs. SuSE is fabulous in the range of packages they include and that, along with the aggressive adoption of new kernel and hardware drivers, is what keeps me with this distribution. As I mentioned earlier (perhaps in another thread, perhaps on the openSUSE-Factory list), I have a new system with quite a bit of recent hardware, and even though 10.2a5 doesn't quite handle it all, the beta of FC6 and Ubuntu 6.0.6 do distinctly worse--I can't even boot their installers!
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
Randall Schulz
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-10-14 at 07:48 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Right, right. The dual-layer thing. I almost forgot that, despite the fact that I wanted to duplicate the 10.0 DVD for a colleague a few weeks ago and realized I had no dual-layer blanks...
They are too expensive yet, at least here... I have burnt only two, on request. As I use DVD for backups, it doesn't make sense, I simply use two normal dvds instead.
Anyway, at the moment I know that the complement of Java packages on the 10.2a5 DVD (image) is paltry by comparison to that included in 10.0 commercial DVD. Since I use and ever-growing number of these library packages, I really value the convenience of installing them without having to hunt them down on the web, often not finding RPMs.
I haven't checked the 10.2 version yet. However, in 10.1 yast, if properly configured, will install anything from the DVD, or the FTP repo. For instance, I'm installing right now pdftk: I updated from 9.3 and as the downloaded image did not contain it, it was removed from the installation. Later on, when the system has the two sources defined it will be installed transparently. Searching for "java" in yast produces about 11 pages of packages.
SuSE is fabulous in the range of packages they include and that, along with the aggressive adoption of new kernel and hardware drivers, is what keeps me with this distribution.
Agreed. But for me, the paid for version is a bit expensive (the same money doesn't buy you the same things in every country: it depends on what you are paid for the same job. Thus, the same amount can be expensive in one country and cheap in another), I want something for my money that I can't get elsewhere. All the packages I can download automatically. The big DVD is surely a convenience, true. The book is something I sorely miss.
As I mentioned earlier (perhaps in another thread, perhaps on the openSUSE-Factory list), I have a new
I remember.
system with quite a bit of recent hardware, and even though 10.2a5 doesn't quite handle it all, the beta of FC6 and Ubuntu 6.0.6 do distinctly worse--I can't even boot their installers!
- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFMP6ytTMYHG2NR9URAvnSAJ4oZvTiKaze8McmHv9aUoaHwqPsGgCfbVNb 8CaYKZCkz4JcCgTgAHacq14= =qWYm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Saturday 14 October 2006 15:17, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Are you sure? That's not how I remember the 10.0 release. I have a distinct recollection that there was still some advantage (beyond one paltry printed manual) for the boxed edition and I thought it was the non-OSS DVD.
Nonono... it was the much-coveted Suse Sticker which comes in the box. :) Though i don't think the newer releases came with such a sticker. :`( -- ----- stephan@s11n.net http://s11n.net "...pleasure is a grace and is not obedient to the commands of the will." -- Alan W. Watts
On Saturday 14 October 2006 09:17, stephan beal wrote:
On Saturday 14 October 2006 15:17, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Are you sure? That's not how I remember the 10.0 release. I have a distinct recollection that there was still some advantage (beyond one paltry printed manual) for the boxed edition and I thought it was the non-OSS DVD.
Nonono... it was the much-coveted Suse Sticker which comes in the box. :)
Though i don't think the newer releases came with such a sticker. :`(
Hey, I second that! My old stickers are going down the recycling path along with the computers and monitors they are attached to. My new cool boxes have no sticker. :( What about having Ted Haeger's big ninja http://reverendted.wordpress.com/2006/08/07/pimped-out-linux-demo-machine/ as a sticker for laptops to be purchased in a merchandise website? Or maybe a collection of logos from here: http://www.novell.com/company/logo/ as stickers, mugs, T-shirts? Carlos FL
mlist@safenet-inc.com wrote:
Barring the unforseen, SUSE 10.2 should be released next month.
What's the source of this information? 10.2 Alpha5 was only released several days ago. You are suggesting that all Beta stages will be pushed aside to release 10.2 in final firm next month? [pruned] Cheers. -- "Every burned book enlightens the world." Ralph Waldo Emerson
On Friday 13 October 2006 20:14, Basil Chupin wrote:
mlist@safenet-inc.com wrote:
Barring the unforseen, SUSE 10.2 should be released next month.
What's the source of this information?
10.2 Alpha5 was only released several days ago. You are suggesting that all Beta stages will be pushed aside to release 10.2 in final firm next month?
http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap/10.2 -- Glenn Holmer (Q-Link: ShadowM) http://www.lyonlabs.org/commodore/c64.html
Glenn Holmer wrote:
On Friday 13 October 2006 20:14, Basil Chupin wrote:
mlist@safenet-inc.com wrote:
Barring the unforseen, SUSE 10.2 should be released next month. What's the source of this information?
10.2 Alpha5 was only released several days ago. You are suggesting that all Beta stages will be pushed aside to release 10.2 in final firm next month?
Thanks for this, but 7 December is hardly "next month"--considering today is 14 October :-) . Cheers. PS You answered my post but I haven't received it on my system (which I always do)! I wonder if this stooopid SPAM rubbish in the subject line made some down link zap my message on the way back to me. -- "Every burned book enlightens the world." Ralph Waldo Emerson
On Friday 13 October 2006 21:08, Basil Chupin wrote:
Glenn Holmer wrote:
Thanks for this, but 7 December is hardly "next month"--considering today is 14 October :-) .
Well, I'm not the guy who said it was coming out next month... although if you ask me, 7 December is only just past "next month". The important thing is that there are only two betas scheduled, so for the people who are saying openSUSE has become a test bed for the Enterprise versions, now is the time to help make 10.2 better. Jump on alpha5 and file bug reports for any unpleasantness you find! -- Glenn Holmer (Q-Link: ShadowM) http://www.lyonlabs.org/commodore/c64.html
Glenn Holmer wrote:
On Friday 13 October 2006 21:08, Basil Chupin wrote:
Glenn Holmer wrote:
http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap/10.2 Thanks for this, but 7 December is hardly "next month"--considering today is 14 October :-) .
Well, I'm not the guy who said it was coming out next month... although if you ask me, 7 December is only just past "next month".
In which case Christmas is "only 3 weeks away" :-) .
The important thing is that there are only two betas scheduled, so for the people who are saying openSUSE has become a test bed for the Enterprise versions, now is the time to help make 10.2 better. Jump on alpha5 and file bug reports for any unpleasantness you find!
If only they would break the bug lump of a alpha5, and its followers, into the 5 or 6 separate ISOs which are more manageable to download! :-( . Cheers. -- "Every burned book enlightens the world." Ralph Waldo Emerson
participants (15)
-
Basil Chupin -
Bob Rea -
Carl William Spitzer IV -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos F Lange -
Dennis J. Tuchler -
Glenn Holmer -
John -
Lew Wolfgang -
Matthew Stringer -
mlist＠safenet-inc.com -
Patrick Shanahan -
PerfectReign -
Randall R Schulz -
stephan beal