[opensuse] Cannot Login to new system
Hi, Just a little background. I bought a new PC with windows 10. Played around for a while and finally obtained popup ads to fix my system. I'm disappointed. Before this new computer I was running opensuse 13.2 when it died after 6 years. I installed the 64bit Leap 42.1 and when it rebooted and presented the login screen my password failed. I was able to get into the terminal mode (ALT-F1) and I could login as user and root. How can this problem be solved? Thanks It would be good to get back using Linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Terrance Eck wrote:
Hi, Just a little background. I bought a new PC with windows 10. Played around for a while and finally obtained popup ads to fix my system. I'm disappointed. Before this new computer I was running opensuse 13.2 when it died after 6 years.
I installed the 64bit Leap 42.1 and when it rebooted and presented the login screen my password failed. I was able to get into the terminal mode (ALT-F1) and I could login as user and root. How can this problem be solved?
Have you applied all the updates? Your problem sounds like the sddm-thingie having abended, which it did frequently in the beginning. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (0.6°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op dinsdag 8 maart 2016 08:08:16 CET schreef Per Jessen:
Terrance Eck wrote:
Hi, Just a little background. I bought a new PC with windows 10. Played around for a while and finally obtained popup ads to fix my system. I'm disappointed. Before this new computer I was running opensuse 13.2 when it died after 6 years.
I installed the 64bit Leap 42.1 and when it rebooted and presented the login screen my password failed. I was able to get into the terminal mode (ALT-F1) and I could login as user and root. How can this problem be solved?
Have you applied all the updates? Your problem sounds like the sddm-thingie having abended, which it did frequently in the beginning.
That was suggested before, but I see no reply from the OP that a "zypper ref && zypper up" has been done yet. And IMHO it should before trying anything else. Another option is to install and use the NVIDIA proprietary driver. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Op dinsdag 8 maart 2016 08:08:16 CET schreef Per Jessen:
Terrance Eck wrote:
Hi, Just a little background. I bought a new PC with windows 10. Played around for a while and finally obtained popup ads to fix my system. I'm disappointed. Before this new computer I was running opensuse 13.2 when it died after 6 years.
I installed the 64bit Leap 42.1 and when it rebooted and presented the login screen my password failed. I was able to get into the terminal mode (ALT-F1) and I could login as user and root. How can this problem be solved?
Have you applied all the updates? Your problem sounds like the sddm-thingie having abended, which it did frequently in the beginning.
That was suggested before, but I see no reply from the OP that a "zypper ref && zypper up" has been done yet. And IMHO it should before trying anything else.
Yup, I agree - so many updates go into Leap42.1, it's almost a rolling release :-)
Another option is to install and use the NVIDIA proprietary driver.
That's what I did initially, later on I reverted to nouveau. ATM it's still crashing though. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (0.9°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink composed on 2016-03-08 08:39 (UTC+0100):
...I see no reply from the OP that a "zypper ref && zypper up" has been done yet. And IMHO it should before trying anything else....
Looks to me like he did: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2016-03/msg00403.html -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Felix Miata wrote:
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink composed on 2016-03-08 08:39 (UTC+0100):
...I see no reply from the OP that a "zypper ref && zypper up" has been done yet. And IMHO it should before trying anything else....
Looks to me like he did: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2016-03/msg00403.html
Looks like: zypper ref zypper dup We need to make sure the OP's system is current with the latest updates. "zypper patch" with the update repos enabled ought to do it. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.2°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Per Jessen composed on 2016-03-08 09:59 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Looks to me like he did: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2016-03/msg00403.html
Looks like:
zypper ref zypper dup
We need to make sure the OP's system is current with the latest updates.
"zypper patch" with the update repos enabled ought to do it.
Nothing is all it will do. With default repos, patch won't add anything to what dup already did. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Felix Miata wrote:
Per Jessen composed on 2016-03-08 09:59 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Looks to me like he did: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2016-03/msg00403.html
Looks like:
zypper ref zypper dup
We need to make sure the OP's system is current with the latest updates.
"zypper patch" with the update repos enabled ought to do it.
Nothing is all it will do. With default repos, patch won't add anything to what dup already did.
Ah yes, you're right. Well Terrance, that does sound like using the nvidia proprietary driver is the way out of this. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.3°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 3/8/2016 3:23 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
Per Jessen composed on 2016-03-08 09:59 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Looks to me like he did: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2016-03/msg00403.html Looks like: zypper ref zypper dup We need to make sure the OP's system is current with the latest updates. "zypper patch" with the update repos enabled ought to do it. Nothing is all it will do. With default repos, patch won't add anything to what dup already did. Ah yes, you're right. Well Terrance, that does sound like using the nvidia proprietary driver is the way out of this.
Please inform me as to where to get the proprietary driver and how to install it into the system. You all know a lot more than I do and I need you help. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Terrance Eck wrote:
On 3/8/2016 3:23 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
Per Jessen composed on 2016-03-08 09:59 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Looks to me like he did: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2016-03/msg00403.html Looks like: zypper ref zypper dup We need to make sure the OP's system is current with the latest updates. "zypper patch" with the update repos enabled ought to do it. Nothing is all it will do. With default repos, patch won't add anything to what dup already did. Ah yes, you're right. Well Terrance, that does sound like using the nvidia proprietary driver is the way out of this.
Please inform me as to where to get the proprietary driver and how to install it into the system. You all know a lot more than I do and I need you help.
When I've needed it, I have downloaded straight from nvidia, the build instructions are easy to follow. Alternatively, this is probably not a bad starting point: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:NVIDIA_drivers -- Per Jessen, Zürich (-1.3°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-03-09 07:47, Per Jessen wrote:
Terrance Eck wrote:
Please inform me as to where to get the proprietary driver and how to install it into the system. You all know a lot more than I do and I need you help.
When I've needed it, I have downloaded straight from nvidia, the build instructions are easy to follow. Alternatively, this is probably not a bad starting point: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:NVIDIA_drivers
I doubt that the lack of the proprietary driver is related to being unable to login :-? At least try with another desktop, a failsafe one. what's the name, fvwmn? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2016-03-09 07:47, Per Jessen wrote:
Terrance Eck wrote:
Please inform me as to where to get the proprietary driver and how to install it into the system. You all know a lot more than I do and I need you help.
When I've needed it, I have downloaded straight from nvidia, the build instructions are easy to follow. Alternatively, this is probably not a bad starting point: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:NVIDIA_drivers
I doubt that the lack of the proprietary driver is related to being unable to login :-?
Terrance says his system is current with all updates, which should eliminate problems with e.g. sddm-greeter unless there is a graphics problem. I'm using nouveau, and it keeps abending, making login impossible.
At least try with another desktop, a failsafe one. what's the name, fvwmn?
or icewm, yes. Won't solve the problem though. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.4°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-03-09 10:17, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I doubt that the lack of the proprietary driver is related to being unable to login :-?
Terrance says his system is current with all updates, which should eliminate problems with e.g. sddm-greeter unless there is a graphics problem. I'm using nouveau, and it keeps abending, making login impossible.
But we still do not know how full his partitions are.
At least try with another desktop, a failsafe one. what's the name, fvwmn?
or icewm, yes. Won't solve the problem though.
It is less picky than gnome or kde about graphics driver performance. As the "login manager" does display, the graphics are working, somewhat at least. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Op woensdag 9 maart 2016 09:48:34 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
On 2016-03-09 07:47, Per Jessen wrote:
Terrance Eck wrote:
Please inform me as to where to get the proprietary driver and how to install it into the system. You all know a lot more than I do and I need you help.
When I've needed it, I have downloaded straight from nvidia, the build instructions are easy to follow. Alternatively, this is probably not a bad starting point: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:NVIDIA_drivers
I doubt that the lack of the proprietary driver is related to being unable to login :-?
At least try with another desktop, a failsafe one. what's the name, fvwmn?
He IS able to login, but Plasma crashes at startup. At least that's what I thought has been concluded already. Given the fact that using the prop. driver has proven a workaround for quite a lot of people reporting this phenomenon, I consider it a good advice. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 3/9/2016 4:49 AM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
He IS able to login, but Plasma crashes at startup. At least that's what I thought has been concluded already. Given the fact that using the prop. driver has proven a workaround for quite a lot of people reporting this phenomenon, I consider it a good advice.
I am currently pursuing the nvidia drivers and had gotten several leads from this list. Thanks to all the members who took the time to suggest solutions. If I hit a dead end I may be back. I'm surprised that the install software does not include the nvidia repository as an option. This should not have to be a secondary step in the process of installing Opensuse. Terry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Terrance Eck wrote:
On 3/9/2016 4:49 AM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
He IS able to login, but Plasma crashes at startup. At least that's what I thought has been concluded already. Given the fact that using the prop. driver has proven a workaround for quite a lot of people reporting this phenomenon, I consider it a good advice.
I am currently pursuing the nvidia drivers and had gotten several leads from this list. Thanks to all the members who took the time to suggest solutions. If I hit a dead end I may be back.
I'm surprised that the install software does not include the nvidia repository as an option. This should not have to be a secondary step in the process of installing Opensuse.
Well, not everyone uses nvidia, and for those that do, the nouveau driver works quite well, even if not always. There are probably some legal or licensing issues too. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.5°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/09/2016 09:29 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Well, not everyone uses nvidia, and for those that do, the nouveau driver works quite well, even if not always.
Terry has a brand new machine, probably with the latest chipset. I understood Nouveau tends to support older chipsets far better than just minted ones. Perhaps this is part of the equation? -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
On 03/09/2016 09:29 AM, Per Jessen wrote:
Well, not everyone uses nvidia, and for those that do, the nouveau driver works quite well, even if not always.
Terry has a brand new machine, probably with the latest chipset.
I understood Nouveau tends to support older chipsets far better than just minted ones. Perhaps this is part of the equation?
Yes, quite likely. Terrance, perhaps you can post details of your hardware? Output from 'lspci' to start with. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (-1.1°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-03-09 17:52, Terrance Eck wrote:
I'm surprised that the install software does not include the nvidia repository as an option. This should not have to be a secondary step in the process of installing Opensuse.
You must be new around here, as it is an often asked question :-))) Answer: it is not possible, for legal reasons. They have to be hosted outside of openSUSE. More info: <https://en.opensuse.org/Restricted_formats> -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 03/09/2016 11:37 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2016-03-09 17:52, Terrance Eck wrote:
I'm surprised that the install software does not include the nvidia repository as an option. This should not have to be a secondary step in the process of installing Opensuse.
You must be new around here, as it is an often asked question :-)))
Answer: it is not possible, for legal reasons. They have to be hosted outside of openSUSE.
More info: <https://en.opensuse.org/Restricted_formats>
Well, that's not the issue here, Carlos. There are already other scripts supplied to fetch thing from other sites. /usr/sbin/install_acx100_firmware /usr/sbin/install_bcm43xx_firmware /usr/sbin/install_intersil_firmware In the past there have been scripts that fetch MS True Type Fonts, etc and a few other things that necessarily resided on external sites. Terry is not asking for the proprietary drivers to be packaged by Opensuse simply to have the process of fetching them to be automated in some way, and perhaps the need to do so detected at install time, and the offer to run the installer script presented to the user. Opensuse doesn't want to reward Nvidia's recalcitrance. I get that. But Opensuse ought to support new users in a more friendly way. Its not exactly like Nvidia is easy to avoid these days. Terry has already exhibited a lot more tolerance of an unfriendly install system than most new users. I would have nuked the install and moved to a different distro a week ago. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done.
On 2016-03-09 21:02, John Andersen wrote:
Terry is not asking for the proprietary drivers to be packaged by Opensuse simply to have the process of fetching them to be automated in some way, and perhaps the need to do so detected at install time, and the offer to run the installer script presented to the user.
Again, even that is not possible for legal reasons. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Le 09/03/2016 21:09, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
On 2016-03-09 21:02, John Andersen wrote:
Terry is not asking for the proprietary drivers to be packaged by Opensuse simply to have the process of fetching them to be automated in some way, and perhaps the need to do so detected at install time, and the offer to run the installer script presented to the user.
Again, even that is not possible for legal reasons.
there is a totem feature that ask for some missing software and always fails finding it. Boring :-( jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/09/2016 12:09 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2016-03-09 21:02, John Andersen wrote:
Terry is not asking for the proprietary drivers to be packaged by Opensuse simply to have the process of fetching them to be automated in some way, and perhaps the need to do so detected at install time, and the offer to run the installer script presented to the user.
Again, even that is not possible for legal reasons.
i just gave you several examples where it is CURRENTLY being done in 13.2 and you come back with a nihilistic answer of "Not Possible"? Have another cup of coffee Carlos, you are not awake yet. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done.
On 2016-03-09 21:25, John Andersen wrote:
On 03/09/2016 12:09 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2016-03-09 21:02, John Andersen wrote:
Terry is not asking for the proprietary drivers to be packaged by Opensuse simply to have the process of fetching them to be automated in some way, and perhaps the need to do so detected at install time, and the offer to run the installer script presented to the user.
Again, even that is not possible for legal reasons.
i just gave you several examples where it is CURRENTLY being done in 13.2 and you come back with a nihilistic answer of "Not Possible"?
I can only repeat what the people that have the power to do it have said again and again: no. If you want to argue, argue with them. I only said what I heard (read) them say many times. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Op woensdag 9 maart 2016 21:30:34 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
On 2016-03-09 21:25, John Andersen wrote:
On 03/09/2016 12:09 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2016-03-09 21:02, John Andersen wrote:
Terry is not asking for the proprietary drivers to be packaged by Opensuse simply to have the process of fetching them to be automated in some way, and perhaps the need to do so detected at install time, and the offer to run the installer script presented to the user.
Again, even that is not possible for legal reasons.
i just gave you several examples where it is CURRENTLY being done in 13.2 and you come back with a nihilistic answer of "Not Possible"?
I can only repeat what the people that have the power to do it have said again and again: no. If you want to argue, argue with them. I only said what I heard (read) them say many times.
Let's not have the debate going in a yes/no direction. Here's about reality, tested minutes ago from both a Leap 42.1 and a recent Tumbleweed image: The installer provides "Use online resources" and "Use add-on media" options. The latter ( again, tested and working ) provides adding additional repos. I added the X11:Bumblebee repo, which contains the NVIDIA packages I need for my Optimus laptop. Likewise I could add NVIDIA's openSUSE repo, no problem. So, IMHO it already is possible, yet the route to get it done isn't clear and it (currently) requires manual addition of repo URL's. All this is not new. I've actually needed this in the past when nouveau was not playing nicely with my (too new) NVIDIA card. Still I think that our time and energy should go in stabilizing and improving nouveau rather than betting on the goodwill of proprietary vendors. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/10/2016 03:29 AM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Still I think that our time and energy should go in stabilizing and improving nouveau rather than betting on the goodwill of proprietary vendors.
This "Our Time" you refer to is really the time of a very few coders who work on nouveau, who (for all I know) aren't even associated with Opensuse. And I suspect, like cooks in a kitchen, there is only room for a few guys on that project. We will probably ALWAYS have to be ready to allow a vendor's own installer for a proprietary drivers, not only for Nvidia. Linux is a very small tail, and it is not going to be wagging the dog any time soon. I like your Idea, (up thread) of a script that fetches the current vendor installer, version checks it against the kernel version, and installs it if it is known to work, warns if it has NOT been tested, and refuses to do anything if it is known to fail. There are actually 4 cases 1) Nouveau is known to work with video card 2) Vender is needed/wanted, and known to work 3) Vender is needed/wanted, but is untested, 4) Vender is needed/wanted, but known to fail That script can be kept up to date as new versions come out, but it will fail-soft, and will warn or refuse combinations that it does not know about to prevent traps for the unwary. This is how existing fetch and install scripts already work so it is nothing new here, its already done in both Leap and Opensuse (And just about every other distro). -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op donderdag 10 maart 2016 10:15:19 CET schreef John Andersen:
On 03/10/2016 03:29 AM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Still I think that our time and energy should go in stabilizing and improving nouveau rather than betting on the goodwill of proprietary vendors. This "Our Time" you refer to is really the time of a very few coders who work on nouveau, who (for all I know) aren't even associated with Opensuse. And I suspect, like cooks in a kitchen, there is only room for a few guys on that project.
"Our time" is not only time of the few coders. Though I will be the last one that will prefer showstoppers over the use of proprietary drivers, I see ( and have given :) ) a lot of advice like given here: install the proprietary driver. The number of bug reports on plasma5 and nouveau don't match the number of posts in the forums, G+, Facebook, the ML's I've seen where the proprietary driver was the solution to plasma crashes. Mind, that's just my personal observation.
We will probably ALWAYS have to be ready to allow a vendor's own installer for a proprietary drivers, not only for Nvidia. Linux is a very small tail, and it is not going to be wagging the dog any time soon.
Probably, yes. But that shouldn't keep us from trying to improve things like nouveau, which btw has been so stable for me that I don't use the NVIDIA blob on my PC. No need for it.
I like your Idea, (up thread) of a script that fetches the current vendor installer, version checks it against the kernel version, and installs it if it is known to work, warns if it has NOT been tested, and refuses to do anything if it is known to fail.
IMHO this https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/X11:Bumblebee/nvidia-bumblebee/... would be a very good place to start. But mind, due to NVIDIA's license openSUSE simply cannot include the driver in the distro. We as users can, as described earlier. The NVIDIA repo isn't openSUSE's, it's NVIDIA's. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-03-10 21:43, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
But mind, due to NVIDIA's license openSUSE simply cannot include the driver in the distro. We as users can, as described earlier. The NVIDIA repo isn't openSUSE's, it's NVIDIA's.
Well, IMO it is due to conflict between the NVidia license and the kernel license. The Nvidia people have no objection, I understand, to Linux distributors distributing the package - except that they say that they will not support bug reports with such a package as ours. Reporters have to use the .run bundle. This is explained in the readme file in the repository. They host the repo, but the content is openSUSE responsibility. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Op donderdag 10 maart 2016 21:56:48 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
On 2016-03-10 21:43, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
But mind, due to NVIDIA's license openSUSE simply cannot include the driver in the distro. We as users can, as described earlier. The NVIDIA repo isn't openSUSE's, it's NVIDIA's.
Well, IMO it is due to conflict between the NVidia license and the kernel license. The Nvidia people have no objection, I understand, to Linux distributors distributing the package - except that they say that they will not support bug reports with such a package as ours. Reporters have to use the .run bundle.
This is explained in the readme file in the repository. They host the repo, but the content is openSUSE responsibility.
Well, it's what I get/understand after a lot of reading and asking around. Quite simple: kernel.org is convinced that NVIDIA's license breaks the GPL of the kernel. For those who wonder/argue that/why *buntu, Mint e.a. do provide proprietary drivers: it's their decision to break things, we can't / shouldn't. openSUSE and it's predecessors have always been very strict in this matter. It has kept us away from nasty areas such as GPL- or patent-infringement, and allows us to stick to GPL and to FOSS principles. Simplified: openSUSE can't add proprietary stuff, users can. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-03-11 09:52, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Op donderdag 10 maart 2016 21:56:48 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
On 2016-03-10 21:43, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
But mind, due to NVIDIA's license openSUSE simply cannot include the driver in the distro. We as users can, as described earlier. The NVIDIA repo isn't openSUSE's, it's NVIDIA's.
Well, IMO it is due to conflict between the NVidia license and the kernel license. The Nvidia people have no objection, I understand, to Linux distributors distributing the package - except that they say that they will not support bug reports with such a package as ours. Reporters have to use the .run bundle.
This is explained in the readme file in the repository. They host the repo, but the content is openSUSE responsibility.
Well, it's what I get/understand after a lot of reading and asking around. Quite simple: kernel.org is convinced that NVIDIA's license breaks the GPL of the kernel.
Correct.
For those who wonder/argue that/why *buntu, Mint e.a. do provide proprietary drivers: it's their decision to break things, we can't / shouldn't.
Yes.
openSUSE and it's predecessors have always been very strict in this matter. It has kept us away from nasty areas such as GPL- or patent-infringement, and allows us to stick to GPL and to FOSS principles. Simplified: openSUSE can't add proprietary stuff, users can.
Exactly. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Op woensdag 9 maart 2016 21:09:32 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
On 2016-03-09 21:02, John Andersen wrote:
Terry is not asking for the proprietary drivers to be packaged by Opensuse simply to have the process of fetching them to be automated in some way, and perhaps the need to do so detected at install time, and the offer to run the installer script presented to the user.
Again, even that is not possible for legal reasons.
It could be done, though not within the distro repos. The X11:Bumblebee repo contains the nvidia-bumblebee packages which download the NVIDIA..run installer, and use it to install the libs and make dkms handle the (re)build of the kernel modules, see https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/ X11:Bumblebee/nvidia-bumblebee/nvidia-bumblebee.spec?expand=1 . I ( and others ) have built ( build) packages that did basically nothing more than pull in the NVIDIA...run, run it with (a.o.) --dkms option, blacklist nouveau etc. Problem with this procedure was that NVIDIA had a tradition of publishing new releases of the driver that weren't tested on newer kernels ( and often needed patches that were only available some time after release of the new driver ). But, taken in mind that all our distro and update packages have to go through openQA testing, how could we possibly test these ? There are many variables in automating this process that openSUSE has no influence on. Just some thoughts -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Op woensdag 9 maart 2016 21:09:32 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:
On 2016-03-09 21:02, John Andersen wrote:
Terry is not asking for the proprietary drivers to be packaged by Opensuse simply to have the process of fetching them to be automated in some way, and perhaps the need to do so detected at install time, and the offer to run the installer script presented to the user.
Again, even that is not possible for legal reasons.
It could be done, though not within the distro repos. The X11:Bumblebee repo contains the nvidia-bumblebee packages which download the NVIDIA..run installer, and use it to install the libs and make dkms handle the (re)build of the kernel modules, see https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/ X11:Bumblebee/nvidia-bumblebee/nvidia-bumblebee.spec?expand=1 . I ( and others ) have built ( build) packages that did basically nothing more than pull in the NVIDIA...run, run it with (a.o.) --dkms option, blacklist nouveau etc. Problem with this procedure was that NVIDIA had a tradition of publishing new releases of the driver that weren't tested on newer kernels ( and often needed patches that were only available some time after release of the new driver ).
But, taken in mind that all our distro and update packages have to go through openQA testing, how could we possibly test these ?
There is plenty of stuff that isn't QA tested, that in itself is not a big deal, but it would screw up the overall idea if we were to offer the nvidia repo, which then didn't work. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.8°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
Terry is not asking for the proprietary drivers to be packaged by Opensuse simply to have the process of fetching them to be automated in some way, and perhaps the need to do so detected at install time, and the offer to run the installer script presented to the user.
Opensuse doesn't want to reward Nvidia's recalcitrance. I get that. But Opensuse ought to support new users in a more friendly way. Its not exactly like Nvidia is easy to avoid these days.
Technically I think you're right, but I wonder it the difficulty is in determining _when_ to revert to the proprietary driver and if yes, to which one. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (-1.0°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 10/03/2016 08:09, Per Jessen a écrit :
John Andersen wrote:
Terry is not asking for the proprietary drivers to be packaged by Opensuse simply to have the process of fetching them to be automated in some way, and perhaps the need to do so detected at install time, and the offer to run the installer script presented to the user.
Opensuse doesn't want to reward Nvidia's recalcitrance. I get that. But Opensuse ought to support new users in a more friendly way. Its not exactly like Nvidia is easy to avoid these days.
Technically I think you're right, but I wonder it the difficulty is in determining _when_ to revert to the proprietary driver and if yes, to which one.
AFAIK if you select the nvidia repository in community, you get the openSUSE free part, but also the proprietary one. I did and had to revert to nouveau on my 5 years old computer jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 3/9/2016 10:52 AM, Terrance Eck wrote:
On 3/9/2016 4:49 AM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
He IS able to login, but Plasma crashes at startup. At least that's what I thought has been concluded already. Given the fact that using the prop. driver has proven a workaround for quite a lot of people reporting this phenomenon, I consider it a good advice.
I am currently pursuing the nvidia drivers and had gotten several leads from this list. Thanks to all the members who took the time to suggest solutions. If I hit a dead end I may be back.
I'm surprised that the install software does not include the nvidia repository as an option. This should not have to be a secondary step in the process of installing Opensuse.
Terry
Great news! My system is finally workings. Thanks for the pointers to how to install the nvidia drivers. Terry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On March 10, 2016 7:48:34 AM PST, Terrance Eck <terry_eck@verizon.net> wrote:
On 3/9/2016 10:52 AM, Terrance Eck wrote:
On 3/9/2016 4:49 AM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
He IS able to login, but Plasma crashes at startup. At least that's what I thought has been concluded already. Given the fact that using the prop. driver has proven a workaround for quite a lot of people reporting this phenomenon, I consider it a good advice.
I am currently pursuing the nvidia drivers and had gotten several leads from this list. Thanks to all the members who took the time to suggest solutions. If
I
hit a dead end I may be back.
I'm surprised that the install software does not include the nvidia repository as an option. This should not have to be a secondary step in the process of installing Opensuse.
Terry
Great news! My system is finally workings. Thanks for the pointers to how to install the nvidia drivers. Terry
Great news. And good perseverance Terry. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op donderdag 10 maart 2016 09:48:34 CET schreef Terrance Eck:
On 3/9/2016 10:52 AM, Terrance Eck wrote:
On 3/9/2016 4:49 AM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
He IS able to login, but Plasma crashes at startup. At least that's what I thought has been concluded already. Given the fact that using the prop. driver has proven a workaround for quite a lot of people reporting this phenomenon, I consider it a good advice.
I am currently pursuing the nvidia drivers and had gotten several leads from this list. Thanks to all the members who took the time to suggest solutions. If I hit a dead end I may be back.
I'm surprised that the install software does not include the nvidia repository as an option. This should not have to be a secondary step in the process of installing Opensuse.
Terry
Great news! My system is finally workings. Thanks for the pointers to how to install the nvidia drivers. Terry
Great indeed, good you didn't give up. IME these are the things I learn from. What's not great, is that this is still going on. From what I've understood the issues nouveau/plasma5 were fixed. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op dinsdag 8 maart 2016 03:35:58 CET schreef Felix Miata:
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink composed on 2016-03-08 08:39 (UTC+0100):
...I see no reply from the OP that a
"zypper ref && zypper up" has been done yet. And IMHO it should before trying anything else....
Looks to me like he did: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2016-03/msg00403.html
Can we see the repos configured, please? zypper lr -d -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Felix Miata -
jdd -
John Andersen -
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink -
Per Jessen -
Terrance Eck