On 2021-02-24 1:21 a.m., Masaru Nomiya wrote:

Hello,

In the Message;

Subject : passwords Message-ID : <9549b2e0-2fde-335c-9571-59ff74c8f1fd@optonline.net> Date & Time: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 00:27:22 -0500

[DG] == Doug McGarrett has written:

DG> Using Thunderbird for email. Is the password it requires a function of DG> Thunderbird or of the internet supplier?

It's a smtp's spec,

cf.

https://getmailspring.com/setup/access-optonline-net-via-imap-smtp

Or IMAP or POP. q.v. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg

On 2021-02-24 2:13 a.m., Lew Wolfgang wrote:

Well, both Thunderbird and your ISP's email account have passwords. You wouldn't want any random person getting into your email, so your ISP requires both a username and a password.

hey, don't forget that your PC needs a password as well.

But you can configure Thunderbird to remember your username and password and to supply them transparently when needed.

oh right, all the way down the tree. With only the dog around why don't you use automatic password-less login to your box as well and they, following the rest of Lew's advice, you'll never need to enter a password. Or leave you computer running all the time and never shut down Thunderbird or any of your connections. They you can buy one of those face recognition things for your front door so you never need to carry a key. How far do you want to go with this? How well trained is your dog? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Internet_dog.jpg Perhaps what you really need is one of those 'password keepers' like LastPass. or 'qpass' from the distribution, but you'll have to remember the password to access that.... -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg

On 24/02/2021 19.12, Doug McGarrett wrote:

On 2/24/21 8:44 AM, James Knott wrote:

...

On 2021-02-24 12:27 a.m., Doug McGarrett wrote:

...

Using Thunderbird for email. Is the password it requires a function of Thunderbird or of the internet supplier? It is becoming obnoxious and since I have only a dog in my house with me, I really don't need the damn password for email, and If I could eliminate it, I would. (And if so, how?) --doug

It's your email provider that requires it.  You can tell Thunderbird to remember the password.  Of course, your dog will have to do that too. ;-) Very interesting. I have been considering some kind of wallet app. It looks like TB can do that. Is it safe for apps other than email? (I don't do any banking on the net, but I order stuff with my credit card.)

Thunderbird only stores in its "wallet" the passwords it uses for the email Thunderbird handles. Firefox does the same thing, again with the passwords it uses on web pages. It is reasonable safe. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 2/25/21 5:22 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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On 24/02/2021 19.12, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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On 2/24/21 8:44 AM, James Knott wrote:

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On 2021-02-24 12:27 a.m., Doug McGarrett wrote:

...

Using Thunderbird for email. Is the password it requires a function of Thunderbird or of the internet supplier? It is becoming obnoxious and since I have only a dog in my house with me, I really don't need the damn password for email, and If I could eliminate it, I would. (And if so, how?) --doug It's your email provider that requires it.  You can tell Thunderbird to remember the password.  Of course, your dog will have to do that too. ;-) Very interesting. I have been considering some kind of wallet app. It looks like TB can do that. Is it safe for apps other than email? (I don't do any banking on the net, but I order stuff with my credit card.) Thunderbird only stores in its "wallet" the passwords it uses for the email Thunderbird handles. Under Edit--Passwords in Thunderbird, it says, "Thunderbird can remember

On 2/24/21 1:50 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote: passwords for all of your accounts. A Master Password protects all your passwords, but your must enter it once per session."

I'm not understanding this--"all" my passwords. There is only one password to receive or send email, altho I have been pestered to reenter the email password almost every time I want to send an email. This is recent behavior, and it's what brought on this thread. Or is it actually trying to be a wallet for the system?

Currently I have my thunderbird configured with 7 different email accounts with several different providers, they all have different passwords, when I go to preferences -> Privacy and security I can click Saved Passwords, there I can see all my email passwords. I only had to enter the password the first time I accessed the relevent mail server it has been remembered since then. I am not using a master password, my laptop has an encrypted harddrive so I don't really see the need. Cheers -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

On 2/25/21 2:52 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:

On 2/25/21 12:52 AM, Doug McGarrett wrote:

...

Under Edit--Passwords in Thunderbird, it says, "Thunderbird can remember passwords for all of your accounts. A Master Password protects all your passwords, but your must enter it once per session."

I'm not understanding this--"all" my passwords. There is only one password to receive or send email Uuugh... I haven't been in settings in so long I almost puked at the Gtk+3 web-ized interface it has now. The remember All passwords in Tbird means remember All "e-mail" account passwords -- so you are not pestered with it again. I do not have Master Password selected, but I just check the passwords saved and then are for each of my mail server accounts (which is what I want)

Thank you. I don't think I've ever received an email that needed a specific password to open. --doug

On 2/25/21 4:23 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 2021-02-25 12:04 p.m., Doug McGarrett wrote:

...

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Thank you. I don't think I've ever received an email that needed a specific password to open.

Oh, do you want some? I'm sure one of us can oblige.

No, thanx!   --doug

On 2/25/21 6:23 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 25/02/2021 07.52, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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On 2/24/21 1:50 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 24/02/2021 19.12, Doug McGarrett wrote:

...

...

Thunderbird only stores in its "wallet" the passwords it uses for the email Thunderbird handles. Under Edit--Passwords in Thunderbird, it says, "Thunderbird can remember passwords for all of your accounts. A Master Password protects all your passwords, but your must enter it once per session."

I'm not understanding this--"all" my passwords. There is only one password to receive or send email, altho I have been pestered to reenter the email password almost every time I want to send an email. This is recent behavior, and it's what brought on this thread. Or is it actually trying to be a wallet for the system? Thunderbird should remember the password for receiving and sending email, and yes, you should enter a master password for Thunderbird itself. It should ask for it only once, when you start Thunderbird.

...

And if it is, does that mean I have to leave email open all the time in order to provide a password on Firefox, for example? Firefox is Firefox, not Thunderbird, so of course Thunderbird does not keep the passwords for Firefox, nor for anything else.

OK! I'm trying the master p/w on Thunderbird, and we'll see if it stops asking all the time. I don't know how closely T/B and Firefox are related, so I wondered. Thanx. --doug

On 2/24/21 10:52 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote:

I'm not understanding this--"all" my passwords. There is only one password to receive or send email, altho I have been pestered to reenter the email password almost every time I want to send an email. This is recent behavior, and it's what brought on this thread. Or is it actually trying to be a wallet for the system? And if it is, does that mean I have to leave email open all the time in order to provide a password on Firefox, for example? Please explain.

BLUF:  There are two passwords for each email account. As used now, sending and receiving email are two separate and independent  processes.  Each process requires its own username and password.  Thunderbird manages these two username/password pairs for each account you may have.  It doesn't know about Chrome, Firefox, or your Linux login. If you tell Thunderbird to remember your sending and receiving passwords, and not use a master Thunderbird password, you will never be bothered by a mail-related password again. This whole thing may seem a bit complicated, but it's not too bad once you understand how the whole thing works.  Also realize that email as we see it now is the product of an evolutionary process spanning many years.  Sort of like the car that Johnny Cash built "One Piece at a Time".  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIuo0KIqD_E In the beginning there was a server.  And then there were two, and both were with UNIX.  Someone want to pick up the rest as a separate thread? Regards, Lew Mostly because it seemed like a neat idea. There was no directive to ‘go forth and invent e-mail’. — Ray Tomlinson, answering a question about why he invented e-mail

* Carlos E. R. [02-25-21 14:47]:

On 25/02/2021 16.23, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

...

On 2/24/21 10:52 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote:

...

I'm not understanding this--"all" my passwords. There is only one password to receive or send email, altho I have been pestered to reenter the email password almost every time I want to send an email. This is recent behavior, and it's what brought on this thread. Or is it actually trying to be a wallet for the system? And if it is, does that mean I have to leave email open all the time in order to provide a password on Firefox, for example? Please explain.

BLUF:  There are two passwords for each email account.

As used now, sending and receiving email are two separate and independent  processes.  Each process requires its own username and password.  Thunderbird manages these two username/password pairs for each account you may have.  It doesn't know about Chrome, Firefox, or your Linux login.

If you tell Thunderbird to remember your sending and receiving passwords, and not use a master Thunderbird password, you will never be bothered by a mail-related password again.

I don't feel safe about Thunderbird storing passwords and not protecting them, so that anybody that gains access to the disk can read all the stored passwords. Even if you live alone and there is a key to the house. You do not know if one day in the next five years you will have a visitor, a guest, a partner, a worker, a thief, a nurse... or a clever dog.

but you can be confident that >95% of them have absolutely no knowledge of linux systems nor skills to access the "disk". -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode

On 2/25/21 11:44 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

If you tell Thunderbird to remember your sending and receiving passwords, and not use a master Thunderbird password, you will never be bothered by a mail-related password again. I don't feel safe about Thunderbird storing passwords and not protecting them, so that anybody that gains access to the disk can read all the stored passwords. Even if you live alone and there is a key to the house. You do not know if one day in the next five years you will have a visitor, a guest, a partner, a worker, a thief, a nurse... or a clever dog.

Indeed, I don't recommend it either. Security and ease-of-use are inversely proportional. At least Doug is able to choose what's best for his circumstances, and he now has the data to make an intelligent choice. Regards, Lew

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 El 2021-02-25 a las 16:20 -0500, Anton Aylward escribió:

On 2021-02-25 2:44 p.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

You do not know if one day in the next five years you will have a visitor, a guest, a partner, a worker, a thief, a nurse... or a clever dog.

Don't worry about dogs; dogs are stupid. It's cat that you have to worry about, I tell you, cats. Especially the big furry ones like Main Coons. They are SMART!

Look at this way: do you see many dogs on the 'Net? Not compared to the number of cats.

cer@Telcontar:~> zypper --no-refresh info dog Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Information for package dog: - ---------------------------- Repository : OBS: Utilities Name : dog Version : 1.7-lp152.186.1 Arch : x86_64 Vendor : obs://build.opensuse.org/utilities Installed Size : 51,5 KiB Installed : Yes Status : up-to-date Source package : dog-1.7-lp152.186.1.src Summary : Enhanced Replacement for cat Description : dog writes the contents of each given file, URL, or standard input to standard output. It currently supports file, http, and raw URLs. It is designed as a compatible, but enhanced replacement for cat. cer@Telcontar:~> ;-D - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCYDgYwxwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVJ9oAnA1J90BLTlYsCCI00pAY gjuUxnp5AJ9YyMf7aQoh3nDHf+3jseuhRpuIlA== =XDDL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Am 25.02.2021 um 22:20 schrieb Anton Aylward:

On 2021-02-25 2:44 p.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

You do not know if one day in the next five years you will have a visitor, a guest, a partner, a worker, a thief, a nurse... or a clever dog.

Don't worry about dogs; dogs are stupid.

I remember watching a thing on TV where they ran different breeds of dogs through a pacours of some kind where the dogs would have to do more and more complicated things to reach the hidden treat. As far as I recall the breed with the lowest performance was the basset and the one with the highest was the australian shepherds dog - and then the guy "narrating" the thing said "which of the two breeds is the smarter one remains to be discussed." XD Cheers MH -- Mathias Homann Mathias.Homann@openSUSE.org Jabber (XMPP): lemmy@tuxonline.tech IRC: [Lemmy] on freenode and ircnet (bouncer active) telegram: https://telegram.me/lemmy98 keybase: https://keybase.io/lemmy gpg key fingerprint: 8029 2240 F4DD 7776 E7D2 C042 6B8E 029E 13F2 C102

On 2021-02-26 8:40 a.m., Bill Walsh wrote:

...

Our English Mastiff has learned how to open the storm door.

I had a car that learnt to turn electrical switches on. I had to keep many devices like the cell phone out of reach. Its why I never had many electrical kitchen appliances like a electric can opener. Its bad enough that cats are excellent psychologists and manipulators of people, we don't need them manipulating gadgetry as well. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg

Just passing this discovery along fwiw, perhaps some KDE users might be interested . . . I've used KDE's virtual desktops feature for a long time, but it was always a small annoyance to have to share the same wallpaper across all desktops.  So I've been using the "wallpaper switcher" applet which associates each virtual desktop with its own wallpaper, and it worked well.   Unfortunately, it breaks with the current Plasma and so I lost it with the 15.2 upgrade. However, the author of wallpaper switcher recommends using "vallpaper" (that's a "v"), which not only provides the same multiple wallpaper functionality, but adds some bells and whistles, too.  Installation is very simple, and it integrates nicely (as a "plugin") with the KDE Desktop Configuration.  IMO definitely worth a try if you want a different wallpaper for each virtual desktop. -- dg

On 2/26/21 10:08 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 27/02/2021 00.26, DennisG wrote:

...

Just passing this discovery along fwiw, perhaps some KDE users might be interested . . .

I've used KDE's virtual desktops feature for a long time, but it was always a small annoyance to have to share the same wallpaper across all desktops.  So I've been using the "wallpaper switcher" applet which associates each virtual desktop with its own wallpaper, and it worked well.   Unfortunately, it breaks with the current Plasma and so I lost it with the 15.2 upgrade.

However, the author of wallpaper switcher recommends using "vallpaper" (that's a "v"), which not only provides the same multiple wallpaper functionality, but adds some bells and whistles, too.  Installation is very simple, and it integrates nicely (as a "plugin") with the KDE Desktop Configuration.  IMO definitely worth a try if you want a different wallpaper for each virtual desktop.

Ok but... you hijacked a thread.

I did???  What thread? -- dg

On 2/27/21 1:05 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 27/02/2021 16.02, DennisG wrote:

...

On 2/26/21 10:08 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

...

On 27/02/2021 00.26, DennisG wrote:

...

Just passing this discovery along fwiw, perhaps some KDE users might be interested . . .

I've used KDE's virtual desktops feature for a long time, but it was always a small annoyance to have to share the same wallpaper across all desktops.  So I've been using the "wallpaper switcher" applet which associates each virtual desktop with its own wallpaper, and it worked well.   Unfortunately, it breaks with the current Plasma and so I lost it with the 15.2 upgrade.

However, the author of wallpaper switcher recommends using "vallpaper" (that's a "v"), which not only provides the same multiple wallpaper functionality, but adds some bells and whistles, too.  Installation is very simple, and it integrates nicely (as a "plugin") with the KDE Desktop Configuration.  IMO definitely worth a try if you want a different wallpaper for each virtual desktop. Ok but... you hijacked a thread. I did???  What thread? https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/message/FT...

Click on "thread" to see it...

You took a post from that thread, hit replu-to, deleted the content, and put your own text. That results in thread hijack, the software knows.

Not a big deal, every body does (did) at least once.

I'm confused.  The "thread" you linked above /is/ my post, the one and only on this subject. I may have used some other post as a shortcut, just using the list's Address-To field and changing the subject for my post.  If that is done, it does not create an entirely new thread?   So there is another linkage besides the subject line, i.e., every new post must be composed from scratch? Thanks for the feedback. -- dg

On 2/27/21 3:12 PM, Dave Howorth wrote:

On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 13:45:43 -0500 DennisG wrote:

...

On 2/27/21 1:05 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 27/02/2021 16.02, DennisG wrote:

...

On 2/26/21 10:08 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

...

On 27/02/2021 00.26, DennisG wrote:

...

Just passing this discovery along fwiw, perhaps some KDE users might be interested . . .

I've used KDE's virtual desktops feature for a long time, but it was always a small annoyance to have to share the same wallpaper across all desktops.  So I've been using the "wallpaper switcher" applet which associates each virtual desktop with its own wallpaper, and it worked well.   Unfortunately, it breaks with the current Plasma and so I lost it with the 15.2 upgrade.

However, the author of wallpaper switcher recommends using "vallpaper" (that's a "v"), which not only provides the same multiple wallpaper functionality, but adds some bells and whistles, too.  Installation is very simple, and it integrates nicely (as a "plugin") with the KDE Desktop Configuration.  IMO definitely worth a try if you want a different wallpaper for each virtual desktop. Ok but... you hijacked a thread. I did???  What thread? https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/message/FT...

Click on "thread" to see it...

You took a post from that thread, hit replu-to, deleted the content, and put your own text. That results in thread hijack, the software knows.

Not a big deal, every body does (did) at least once.

I'm confused.  The "thread" you linked above /is/ my post, the one and only on this subject. No, you didn't click on 'thread'!

...

I may have used some other post as a shortcut, just using the list's Address-To field and changing the subject for my post.  If that is done, it does not create an entirely new thread? No, exactly. You must choose the list address and compose new mail to it.

...

So there is another linkage besides the subject line, i.e., every new post must be composed from scratch? Indeed so.

Right, learned somethin' new.  Thx! -- dg

Am 27.02.21 um 00:26 schrieb DennisG:

Just passing this discovery along fwiw, perhaps some KDE users might be interested . . .

I've used KDE's virtual desktops feature for a long time, but it was always a small annoyance to have to share the same wallpaper across all desktops.  So I've been using the "wallpaper switcher" applet which associates each virtual desktop with its own wallpaper, and it worked well.   Unfortunately, it breaks with the current Plasma and so I lost it with the 15.2 upgrade.

However, the author of wallpaper switcher recommends using "vallpaper" (that's a "v"), which not only provides the same multiple wallpaper functionality, but adds some bells and whistles, too.  Installation is very simple, and it integrates nicely (as a "plugin") with the KDE Desktop Configuration.  IMO definitely worth a try if you want a different wallpaper for each virtual desktop.

Oh, I could use that. Where could I find it, in KDE system settings? Peter

Am 28.02.21 um 19:37 schrieb DennisG:

On 2/28/21 3:48 AM, Peter McD wrote:

...

Am 27.02.21 um 00:26 schrieb DennisG:

...

Just passing this discovery along fwiw, perhaps some KDE users might be interested . . .

I've used KDE's virtual desktops feature for a long time, but it was always a small annoyance to have to share the same wallpaper across all desktops.  So I've been using the "wallpaper switcher" applet which associates each virtual desktop with its own wallpaper, and it worked well.   Unfortunately, it breaks with the current Plasma and so I lost it with the 15.2 upgrade.

However, the author of wallpaper switcher recommends using "vallpaper" (that's a "v"), which not only provides the same multiple wallpaper functionality, but adds some bells and whistles, too. Installation is very simple, and it integrates nicely (as a "plugin") with the KDE Desktop Configuration.  IMO definitely worth a try if you want a different wallpaper for each virtual desktop.

Oh, I could use that.

Where could I find it, in KDE system settings?

Peter

If you right-click on Desktop, open Configure Desktop/Wallpaper Type/Get New Plugins you will find it there but installation from there did not work for me.  So instead I got it from here:

https://github.com/lehklu/Vallpaper

Download the zip file (version 2.0.2) and follow instructions to install the Plugin.  Then open Configure Desktop, make sure you are using Folder View, and under the Wallpaper Type pull-down you will see Vallpaper in the list.  Select that and the window will change. Add your wallpaper files under Picture Sources.  Under Desktop add each virtual desktop (it knows how many you have).   I think there may be more than one way to associate a wallpaper file to each Desktop.  As I recall all I did after adding the wallpaper files and Desktops, was right-click on the Desktop and in the dialog window I clicked on <Vallpaper> Next Image which will scroll thru the images you put under Sources.  Whichever you leave there, it will associate and remember.  Go to next Desktop and do the same.  There are other features which I haven't played with yet.

Thanks Peter

On 2/26/21 8:40 AM, Bill Walsh wrote:

On 2/26/21 12:38 AM, Mathias Homann wrote:

...

Am 25.02.2021 um 22:20 schrieb Anton Aylward:

...

On 2021-02-25 2:44 p.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

You do not know if one day in the next five years you will have a visitor, a guest, a partner, a worker, a thief, a nurse... or a clever dog.

Don't worry about dogs; dogs are stupid.

I remember watching a thing on TV where they ran different breeds of dogs through a pacours of some kind where the dogs would have to do more and more complicated things to reach the hidden treat.

As far as I recall the breed with the lowest performance was the basset and the one with the highest was the australian shepherds dog - and then the guy "narrating" the thing said "which of the two breeds is the smarter one remains to be discussed."

XD

Cheers

MH

Our English Mastiff has learned how to open the storm door. You'd better hope he doesn't learn how to open the refrigerator! --doug

-- There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order.

The soap box represents exercising one's right to freedom of speech to influence politics to defend liberty. The ballot box represents exercising one's right to vote to elect a government which defends liberty. The jury box represents using jury nullification to refuse to convict someone being prosecuted for breaking an unjust law that decreases liberty. The ammo box represents exercising one's right to keep and bear arms to oppose, in armed conflict, a government that decreases liberty.

On 2/25/21 2:44 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2/24/21 10:52 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote:

...

I'm not understanding this--"all" my passwords. There is only one password to receive or send email, altho I have been pestered to reenter the email password almost every time I want to send an email. This is recent behavior, and it's what brought on this thread. Or is it actually trying to be a wallet for the system? And if it is, does that mean I have to leave email open all the time in order to provide a password on Firefox, for example? Please explain. BLUF:  There are two passwords for each email account.

As used now, sending and receiving email are two separate and independent  processes.  Each process requires its own username and password.  Thunderbird manages these two username/password pairs for each account you may have.  It doesn't know about Chrome, Firefox, or your Linux login.

If you tell Thunderbird to remember your sending and receiving passwords, and not use a master Thunderbird password, you will never be bothered by a mail-related password again. I don't feel safe about Thunderbird storing passwords and not protecting

On 25/02/2021 16.23, Lew Wolfgang wrote: them, so that anybody that gains access to the disk can read all the stored passwords. Even if you live alone and there is a key to the house. You do not know if one day in the next five years you will have a visitor, a guest, a partner, a worker, a thief, a nurse... or a clever dog. I put a password into Thunderbird's "Use a master password" and it does keep T/B from bugging me all the time for a repeat, BUT

It changed my boot password! But not my root password, which was the same as my boot p/w. I don't want to get locked out of the system, but  what command can I use to put the boot password back to what it was? Or should I change the Thunderbird p/w to my original boot p/w? That might not be too good, since it is very simple and short. (NOT doug!) --doug

On 2/26/21 6:07 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 26/02/2021 08.17, Doug McGarrett wrote:

...

On 2/25/21 2:44 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

On 2/24/21 10:52 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote:

...

I'm not understanding this--"all" my passwords. There is only one password to receive or send email, altho I have been pestered to reenter the email password almost every time I want to send an email. This is recent behavior, and it's what brought on this thread. Or is it actually trying to be a wallet for the system? And if it is, does that mean I have to leave email open all the time in order to provide a password on Firefox, for example? Please explain. BLUF:  There are two passwords for each email account.

As used now, sending and receiving email are two separate and independent  processes.  Each process requires its own username and password.  Thunderbird manages these two username/password pairs for each account you may have.  It doesn't know about Chrome, Firefox, or your Linux login.

If you tell Thunderbird to remember your sending and receiving passwords, and not use a master Thunderbird password, you will never be bothered by a mail-related password again. I don't feel safe about Thunderbird storing passwords and not protecting

On 25/02/2021 16.23, Lew Wolfgang wrote: them, so that anybody that gains access to the disk can read all the stored passwords. Even if you live alone and there is a key to the house. You do not know if one day in the next five years you will have a visitor, a guest, a partner, a worker, a thief, a nurse... or a clever dog. I put a password into Thunderbird's "Use a master password" and it does keep T/B from bugging me all the time for a repeat, BUT

It changed my boot password! Impossible.

It's obviously not impossible. The first time I rebooted the machine after changing the master password in Thunderbird, I could not boot the machine with my old boot password. I then tried the Thunderbird master password and the machine booted. I don't know how this works, all I know is what happened. --doug

...

But not my root password, which was the same as my boot p/w.

I don't want to get locked out of the system, but  what command can I use to put the boot password back to what it was? Or should I change the Thunderbird p/w to my original boot p/w? That might not be too good, since it is very simple and short. (NOT doug!) There is no relationship whatsoever between the Thunderbird master password and any other password of the system, including the "boot password".

On 26/02/2021 22.13, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 26/02/2021 21.33, Doug McGarrett wrote:> On 2/26/21 6:07 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 26/02/2021 08.17, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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On 2/25/21 2:44 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2/24/21 10:52 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote: > I'm not understanding this--"all" my passwords. There is > only one password to receive or send email, altho I have > been pestered to reenter the email password almost every > time I want to send an email. This is recent behavior, and > it's what brought on this thread. Or is it actually trying > to be a wallet for the system? And if it is, does that mean > I have to leave email open all the time in order to provide > a password on Firefox, for example? Please explain. BLUF: There are two passwords for each email account.

As used now, sending and receiving email are two separate and independent processes. Each process requires its own username and password. Thunderbird manages these two username/password pairs for each account you may have. It doesn't know about Chrome, Firefox, or your Linux login.

If you tell Thunderbird to remember your sending and receiving passwords, and not use a master Thunderbird password, you will never be bothered by a mail-related password again. I don't feel safe about Thunderbird storing passwords and not

On 25/02/2021 16.23, Lew Wolfgang wrote: protecting them, so that anybody that gains access to the disk can read all the stored passwords. Even if you live alone and there is a key to the house. You do not know if one day in the next five years you will have a visitor, a guest, a partner, a worker, a thief, a nurse... or a clever dog. I put a password into Thunderbird's "Use a master password" and it does keep T/B from bugging me all the time for a repeat, BUT

It changed my boot password! Impossible.

It's obviously not impossible. The first time I rebooted the machine after changing the master password in Thunderbird, I could not boot the machine with my old boot password. I then tried the Thunderbird master password and the machine booted. I don't know how this works, all I know is what happened.

Impossible. You must have done something else.

For example, you may have been confused with the KDE Wallet password, which can indeed be the same one as the desktop login password. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 26/02/2021 22.52, Doug McGarrett wrote:

On 2/26/21 4:15 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

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On 26/02/2021 22.13, Carlos E.R. wrote:

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On 26/02/2021 21.33, Doug McGarrett wrote:> On 2/26/21 6:07 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 26/02/2021 08.17, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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On 2/25/21 2:44 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote: > On 25/02/2021 16.23, Lew Wolfgang wrote: >> On 2/24/21 10:52 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote: >>> I'm not understanding this--"all" my passwords. There is >>> only one password to receive or send email, altho I have >>> been pestered to reenter the email password almost every >>> time I want to send an email. This is recent behavior, and >>> it's what brought on this thread. Or is it actually trying >>> to be a wallet for the system? And if it is, does that mean >>> I have to leave email open all the time in order to provide >>> a password on Firefox, for example? Please explain. >> BLUF:  There are two passwords for each email account. >> >> As used now, sending and receiving email are two separate >> and independent  processes.  Each process requires its own >> username and password.  Thunderbird manages these two >> username/password pairs for each account you may have.  It >> doesn't know about Chrome, Firefox, or your Linux login. >> >> If you tell Thunderbird to remember your sending and >> receiving passwords, and not use a master Thunderbird >> password, you will never be bothered by a mail-related >> password again. > I don't feel safe about Thunderbird storing passwords and not > protecting them, so that anybody that gains access to the disk > can read all the stored passwords. Even if you live alone and > there is a key to the house. You do not know if one day in the > next five years you will have a visitor, a guest, a partner, a > worker, a thief, a nurse... or a clever dog. I put a password into Thunderbird's "Use a master password" and it does keep T/B from bugging me all the time for a repeat, BUT

It changed my boot password! Impossible.

It's obviously not impossible. The first time I rebooted the machine after changing the master password in Thunderbird, I could not boot the machine with my old boot password. I then tried the Thunderbird master password and the machine booted. I don't know how this works, all I know is what happened. Impossible. You must have done something else. For example, you may have been confused with the KDE Wallet password, which can indeed be the same one as the desktop login password. AFAIK, KDE Wallet is not installed on this machine, altho I'm considering it. The KFind gui: KDE* does not show KDE wallet on the system. Remind me how to get whereis working in the konsole, please.

I don't know if "KDE Wallet" is its real name.

Anyway, I shut down the machine a few minutes ago, turned it back on, and it came up with NO password. Don't know what's going on.

Me neither. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 2/26/21 5:47 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

/snip/

I agree with Carlos.  The Thunderbird master password has nothing to do with the grub boot password.  You can have a boot password without Thunderbird even being installed. OK, I think Carlos is right. It DID happen, once. Don't know why. Seems to be OK now.

But I'm puzzled, Doug.  If you don't like Thunderbird passwords, why do you have a boot password?  They are optional after all.

Regards, Lew I don't mind a boot p/w, and the system installation seems to require one, but I normally only boot the system about once a week or less, if everything is working right. I use T/B several times a day. --doug

On 2/26/21 7:02 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 26/02/2021 23.47, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

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On 2/26/21 1:13 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

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On 26/02/2021 21.33, Doug McGarrett wrote:> On 2/26/21 6:07 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 26/02/2021 08.17, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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I put a password into Thunderbird's "Use a master password" and it does keep T/B from bugging me all the time for a repeat, BUT

It changed my boot password Impossible.

It's obviously not impossible. The first time I rebooted the machine after changing the master password in Thunderbird, I could not boot the machine with my old boot password. I then tried the Thunderbird master password and the machine booted. I don't know how this works, all I know is what happened. Impossible. You must have done something else. I agree with Carlos.  The Thunderbird master password has nothing to do with the grub boot password.  You can have a boot password without Thunderbird even being installed.

But I'm puzzled, Doug.  If you don't like Thunderbird passwords, why do you have a boot password?  They are optional after all. It is really the login password, not grub's password.

Ah yes, that makes sense.  But you can also turn off that password too. Not that I'd recommend doing it. Regards, Lew

On 2021-02-25 10:23 a.m., Lew Wolfgang wrote:

As used now, sending and receiving email are two separate and independent  processes.  Each process requires its own username and password.

While true it _may_ happen that the way a _particular_ ISP works, those are both the same. Of course you may be like me: I use thunderbird to access the dozen or more IMAP accounts _that_ _I_ _have+ _with_ _one_ _ISP_, *each with its own password*. But sending I just use the same, single SMTP service. As it happens, the password on the SMTP is the same as the first of the IMAP accounts I set up, but that was just what I did at the time when I only had the one. As they say: YMMV. All this in no way contradicts what Lew says. I'm just obsessive about the 'each thing does one thing and only one thing and does it well' and apply that to email accounts as well. And before you ask, yes I have more than one domain and more than one GMail account. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg

On 24.02.21 19:12, Doug McGarrett wrote:

On 2/24/21 8:44 AM, James Knott wrote:

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On 2021-02-24 12:27 a.m., Doug McGarrett wrote:

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Using Thunderbird for email. Is the password it requires a function of Thunderbird or of the internet supplier? It is becoming obnoxious and since I have only a dog in my house with me, I really don't need the damn password for email, and If I could eliminate it, I would. (And if so, how?) --doug

It's your email provider that requires it.  You can tell Thunderbird to remember the password.  Of course, your dog will have to do that too. ;-) Very interesting. I have been considering some kind of wallet app. It looks like TB can do that. Is it safe for apps other than email? (I don't do any banking on the net, but I order stuff with my credit card.)

Personally I generate a random password for any new web site which requires it and allow FF to store the credentials and also store them in KeePassXC. The fact that FF stores them allows me to choose a different (and strong) password for each web site and not rely on some scheme to remember the umpteen passwords. EXCEPT anything finance, so I have to enter my credentials whenever I want to check my balance or do money transfers. I NEVER STORE THESE! Josef -- SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer

On 2/25/21 8:51 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 2021-02-25 2:32 a.m., Josef Moellers wrote:

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Personally I generate a random password for any new web site which requires it and allow FF to store the credentials and also store them in KeePassXC.

Yes, great.

But that's Firefox. Not Thunderbird. Tey don't share passwords. They are separate apps.

Don't conflate the two.

Got it!  I think that Thunderbird and Firefox are related by source, but maybe I'm wrong. At any rate, I have been roundly chastised for thinking that one password might work for both! --doug

On 2021-02-25 2:46 p.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 25/02/2021 18.43, Doug McGarrett wrote:

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On 2/25/21 8:51 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

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On 2021-02-25 2:32 a.m., Josef Moellers wrote:

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Personally I generate a random password for any new web site which requires it and allow FF to store the credentials and also store them in KeePassXC.

Yes, great.

But that's Firefox. Not Thunderbird. Tey don't share passwords. They are separate apps.

Don't conflate the two.

Got it!  I think that Thunderbird and Firefox are related by source, but maybe I'm wrong. At any rate, I have been roundly chastised for thinking that one password might work for both!

They were part of the same program once, Seamonkey. Now they are developed by the same team, Mozilla people. They are separate programs but can share code.

Well if you want to be picky about it, almost everything with Linux shared code, the libraries such as Libc and more. But sharing source code fragments is quite different from sharing a ... database. If you want an example of that, well many KDE apps do that, or in a more abstract sense, yes Thunderbird and Firefox both share the distributed database that is the internet's DNS service. How picky do you want to be about this? -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg

On 2021-02-25 12:43 p.m., Doug McGarrett wrote:

At any rate, I have been roundly chastised for thinking that one password might work for both!

Only if you set it up that way. You _could_ use the same password to log in to to you computer's boot, into your Linux account, as the T'bird master, as the two email account, as your master to your password safe, as your financial using Firefox .. all the way down. It makes it much easier to remember. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg

On 2021-02-25 4:40 p.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 25/02/2021 22.28, Anton Aylward wrote:

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On 2021-02-25 12:43 p.m., Doug McGarrett wrote:

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At any rate, I have been roundly chastised for thinking that one password might work for both!

Only if you set it up that way. You _could_ use the same password to log in to to you computer's boot, into your Linux account, as the T'bird master, as the two email account, as your master to your password safe, as your financial using Firefox .. all the way down. It makes it much easier to remember.

Mmm.

The typical recommendation is to use a phrase for the wallet, not a password. At what point does a password become a passphrase?? If I recall the source of the master login and the graphical login it is a 512 byte buffer. I realise some application might have problems with passwords that have spaces. IIR my fetchmail up-chucked on that, but that was years ago.

Quantummateriaematerieturmarmotamonaxsimarmotamonaxmateriampossitmateriari? -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg

On 2/25/21 5:39 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 2021-02-25 4:40 p.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 25/02/2021 22.28, Anton Aylward wrote:

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On 2021-02-25 12:43 p.m., Doug McGarrett wrote:

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At any rate, I have been roundly chastised for thinking that one password might work for both!

Only if you set it up that way. You _could_ use the same password to log in to to you computer's boot, into your Linux account, as the T'bird master, as the two email account, as your master to your password safe, as your financial using Firefox .. all the way down. It makes it much easier to remember.

Mmm.

The typical recommendation is to use a phrase for the wallet, not a password. At what point does a password become a passphrase?? If I recall the source of the master login and the graphical login it is a 512 byte buffer.  I realise some application might have problems with passwords that have spaces.  IIR my fetchmail up-chucked on that, but that was years ago.

Quantummateriaematerieturmarmotamonaxsimarmotamonaxmateriampossitmateriari?

No good. It doesn't have a number in it. --doug

On 2021/02/24 05:44, James Knott wrote:

On 2021-02-24 12:27 a.m., Doug McGarrett wrote:

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Using Thunderbird for email. Is the password it requires a function of Thunderbird

Password? on Tbird? Think I saw it once when I setup Tbird.

It's your email provider that requires it. You can tell Thunderbird to remember the password. Of course, your dog will have to do that too. ;-)

I use fetchmail to download from my ISP, that uses sendmail to deliver it to my local 'account' where it is sorted into many email folders that are served to T-bird via IMAP. Fetchmail does use a password to d/l from the ISP, but that's in a private config file. Password on my imap is my login password -- but only had to type that in once when I setup the imap account in Tbird and it keeps it after that. Used to use imaps, but to a local server, what's the point? But I can use Tbird on any local machine or just use 'Mail' or any mbox-compatible mail reader that reads from local files when on the server, so no pw there either. Having email as text files is invaluable in searching through emails as I have emails going back to 1995.

On 2/25/21 8:47 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 2021-02-24 12:27 a.m., Doug McGarrett wrote:

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Using Thunderbird for email. Is the password it requires a function of Thunderbird or of the internet supplier? I

Are you sure it's passwords and not certificate?

There is a 'security & privacy" setting that says that to ask every time for confirmation of a certificate.

Password. I've selected the "remember password" thingy in T/B and so far it seems to have solved the problem of asking all the time for the password. We'll see. . . . --doug