hi list, I am a newbie, I wanna recompile my suse 8.1. My friend told me that recompile native kernel is a must. Is it ? If yes, what for ? Best regards.. Q __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
On Saturday 05 April 2003 18:24, ody wrote:
hi list, I am a newbie, I wanna recompile my suse 8.1. My friend told me that recompile native kernel is a must. Is it ? If yes, what for ?
Can't say if it's essential - why do you want to do it? The kernel(s) supplied by SuSE have various patches (fixes and 'enhancements') set up, so if you compile a 'stock' kernel (from www.kernel.org) you might lose some of the functionality... Dylan
Best regards.. Q
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On Saturday 05 April 2003 12:24 pm, ody wrote:
hi list, I am a newbie, I wanna recompile my suse 8.1. My friend told me that recompile native kernel is a must. Is it ? If yes, what for ?
Best regards.. Q
To possibly gain a slight increase in speed due to having compiled everything for your CPU architecture. Other benefits include: 1) Breaking a lot of things. 2) Having a lot of problems getting everything compiled 3) Having a speed advantage that you will never possibly be able to notice unless perchance your machine spends all of its time calculating fourier transforms or other 'deep stuff'. Advice: forget the idea. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 04/05/03 12:31 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "****** Confucious say: 'Is stuffy inside fortune cookie.'"
ody wrote:
hi list, I am a newbie, I wanna recompile my suse 8.1.
right there, you have a contradiction in terms....newbies, compile kernel...... if it works, don't touch it......especially if you're a newbie recompiling the kernel should be done only by a knowledgeable, experienced person. This gets rid of all the extra "fluff" that is put on the kernel to make it work with a wide variety of hardware. Basically, you tune it for just what you are running.....but if you don't kow what you're doing, you will damage the system. So, like I said...if you're a newbie, don't touch it......reading up on it or getting a good oreilly book that deals with this subject is fine...experiment at your own risk only after you have read those things (at least those things...the kernel and unix/linux drivers/modules is a big topic...) good luck, Oskar
My friend told me that recompile native kernel is a must. Is it ? If yes, what for ?
Best regards.. Q
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
On Saturday 05 April 2003 18:46, Oskar Teran wrote:
ody wrote:
hi list, I am a newbie, I wanna recompile my suse 8.1.
right there, you have a contradiction in terms....newbies, compile kernel...... if it works, don't touch it......especially if you're a newbie recompiling the kernel should be done only by a knowledgeable, experienced person. This gets rid of all the extra "fluff" that is put on the kernel to make it work with a wide variety of hardware. Basically, you tune it for just what you are running.....but if you don't kow what you're doing, you will damage the system. So, like I said...if you're a newbie, don't touch it......reading up on it or getting a good oreilly book that deals with this subject is fine...experiment at your own risk only after you have read those things (at least those things...the kernel and unix/linux drivers/modules is a big topic...)
I agree completely - I've been running Linux solidly for 2.5years and am going to dive in to Linux From Scratch very soon. BUT, I've got a handle on the setup and how to sort things out. A year ago, if someone said I needed to muss with the kernel or a module I'd say "OK, I'm not ready for that yet." Now there's no stopping me... Dylan
good luck,
Oskar
My friend told me that recompile native kernel is a must. Is it ? If yes, what for ?
Best regards.. Q
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
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Despite what everyone is saying, it isn't as complicated as it sounds. You basically start from the SUSE confiiguration (there is a command to extract that configuration), run 'make xconfig' and then the standard make clean;make dep;make bzImage;make modues;make modules_install. There are scripts and systems on some distributions that make all this easier, since you have to match modules. kernal image, lilo entries, etc. However, the naysayser are correct. Recompiling the kernel is less and less necessary, especially if you have a working system. I'd advise finding a minimal distribution and a spare machine to play with kernel recompilations.
* Paul Alfille (palfille@earthlink.net) [030405 10:46]: ->Despite what everyone is saying, it isn't as complicated as it sounds. -> ->You basically start from the SUSE confiiguration (there is a command to ->extract that configuration), run 'make xconfig' and then the standard ->make clean;make dep;make bzImage;make modues;make modules_install. I would add this that if you were to pull down say...2.4.20 (src) from SuSE's ftp site. You can do all of the above but before you do any of it. There is a nice little script called cloneconfig which ..taDA.. clones the config of the running kernel so you don't lose any functionality that you need. Then you can do the make xconfig and choose whatever you wish..and follow the instructions that Paul layed out. It's nice to at least know your going to have the modules loaded and the settings you need checked before one starts mucking about with other stuff. :) Cheers! -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org Tell me what you believe.. I'll tell you what you should see.
On Saturday 05 April 2003 13:44 pm, Paul Alfille wrote:
Despite what everyone is saying, it isn't as complicated as it sounds.
You basically start from the SUSE confiiguration (there is a command to extract that configuration), run 'make xconfig' and then the standard make clean;make dep;make bzImage;make modues;make modules_install.
There are scripts and systems on some distributions that make all this easier, since you have to match modules. kernal image, lilo entries, etc.
However, the naysayser are correct. Recompiling the kernel is less and less necessary, especially if you have a working system.
I'd advise finding a minimal distribution and a spare machine to play with kernel recompilations.
Although I was one of the naysayers, what he initally said was 'I want to recompile my SuSE'. A daunting task for anyone. Recompiling a kernel, if done properly, is both safe (keep your old kernel for backup!) and fairly simple and also a good way to get further into Linux. The key phrase is "if done properly". -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 04/05/03 13:49 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "A conference is just an admission that you want somebody to join you in your troubles" - Will Rogers
Paul Alfille <palfille@earthlink.net> [Sat, 5 Apr 2003 13:44:44 -0500]:
You basically start from the SUSE confiiguration (there is a command to extract that configuration),
That's 'make cloneconfig'
run 'make xconfig'
And those that know won't touch xconfig. It's broken again and again and relatively badly maintained. I'd always recommend 'make menuconfig' as that is working most of the time.
make clean;make dep;make bzImage;make modues;make modules_install.
I'd do it this way: make clean dep bzImage modules modules_install But given that you're on your own to determine which of the features you need and which you can safely disable I'd recommend to get a fair bit of knowledge before attempting it. Philipp -- Philipp Thomas work: pthomas@suse.de Development SuSE Linux AG private: pth@t-link.de
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 05 April 2003 11:46 am, Oskar Teran wrote:
ody wrote:
hi list, I am a newbie, I wanna recompile my suse 8.1.
right there, you have a contradiction in terms....newbies, compile kernel...... if it works, don't touch it......especially if you're a newbie recompiling the kernel should be done only by a knowledgeable, experienced person. This gets rid of all the extra "fluff" that is put on the kernel to make it work with a wide variety of hardware. Basically, you tune it for just what you are running.....but if you don't kow what you're doing, you will damage the system. So, like I said...if you're a newbie, don't touch it......reading up on it or getting a good oreilly book that deals with this subject is fine...experiment at your own risk only after you have read those things (at least those things...the kernel and unix/linux drivers/modules is a big topic...)
Ok, I'm a relative newb, about 3 years experience. I have gained a lot of experience with Linux and am qiut comfortable doing a good many tweaks to my system and have learned to recover a broken sys in 80% of the incidents "I" have created. That being said and given my own personal experience I would only recommend compiling a kernel if you can meet a couple of criteria. A) Do a lot of research on the various methods and parameters to the components of the kernel setup and how to compile it (and the particulars of using SuSE Linux kernels as opposed to a stock one from kernel.org). B) I would strongly recommend using a non-essential system/computer. The best scenario would be to learn on a system that is similar to your production machine (the machine you do actual work on that you don't want to hose) and that if you do hose your system you can simply reinstall (after all recovery attempts fail - learn to do recovery - that's the beauty of *nixes). C) On the "2nd" test machine (if you have it) I would install two kernels, one for complie and one you leave untouched (such as SuSE fail safe kernel install as default) in case you hose the system and can't get "that" kernel to run/boot you can fall back on the other kernel to get into the system to fix or recompile the failed kernel. D) Finally, if and when you start to compile kernels, start slow and simple. Do one thing at a time, like setting the type of cpu arch (e.g. for a P4 or AthlonXP cpu arch). Then learn about what did and didn't work. When compiling kernels sometimes the kernel will boot but make the system unstable or certain functionality will not work. Learn to read log files and error output to understand what happened. I would not recommend kernel compilations on the system you use for day to day work. Smart sys admins "always" have test machines to do this sort of thing, That way they really don't have any downtime. I have a second maching in which I do beta testing, kernal compilations, patching, etc.... I also realise the my test machine is different than my production machine and must alway take into account that what worked on the test machine may not transfer over to my production machine because of different archictecture and cpu, etc. Learn how to compile a kernel is like learning how to build a car. If you get it right your car can scream, get better gas milage, or more power. If you screw it up you could fry your engined, lose your brakes, etc... and then you have a lot more work to do. The same holds true with kernels in regards to your system. You may get better memory usage, better graphics quaility and speed, make devices that wouldn't work run like they should, etc.. Or you can lose all your data, hose a hard drive or file system, destroy another OS (as in a dual boot system), etc... and then have to start from scratch (of in some rare case replace hardware). Start slow and careful, do your research first, and never never do this on a system you can't afford to have things get hosed or lost. Only a fool (such as myself in earlier days) would learn to compile a kernel on a system that is needed to do what you have the computer for in the first place - to do work, manage files/data, check email, browse the web, etc.. etc.. etc.. Cause once you hose the kernel chances are you'll be able to do none of this and will be lucky if you get your system to run again without a reinstall. HTH, Curtis.
good luck,
Oskar
My friend told me that recompile native kernel is a must. Is it ? If yes, what for ?
Best regards.. Q
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
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Ummm.... unless you need some extra extra module I think there is no reason to recompile from the stock SuSE kernel. 90% of the stock SuSE kernel is modular and besides changing the cpu arch there isnt much that can be removed from the kernel core for speed/size reasons. So don't recompile. On the other hand...if you WANT to....go ahead, just take the advice the others gave. There is not much more I can add to that. On Saturday 05 April 2003 01:12 pm, Curtis Rey wrote:
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On Saturday 05 April 2003 11:46 am, Oskar Teran wrote:
ody wrote:
hi list, I am a newbie, I wanna recompile my suse 8.1.
right there, you have a contradiction in terms....newbies, compile kernel...... if it works, don't touch it......especially if you're a newbie recompiling the kernel should be done only by a knowledgeable, experienced person. This gets rid of all the extra "fluff" that is put on the kernel to make it work with a wide variety of hardware. Basically, you tune it for just what you are running.....but if you don't kow what you're doing, you will damage the system. So, like I said...if you're a newbie, don't touch it......reading up on it or getting a good oreilly book that deals with this subject is fine...experiment at your own risk only after you have read those things (at least those things...the kernel and unix/linux drivers/modules is a big topic...)
Ok, I'm a relative newb, about 3 years experience. I have gained a lot of experience with Linux and am qiut comfortable doing a good many tweaks to my system and have learned to recover a broken sys in 80% of the incidents "I" have created. That being said and given my own personal experience I would only recommend compiling a kernel if you can meet a couple of criteria.
A) Do a lot of research on the various methods and parameters to the components of the kernel setup and how to compile it (and the particulars of using SuSE Linux kernels as opposed to a stock one from kernel.org).
B) I would strongly recommend using a non-essential system/computer. The best scenario would be to learn on a system that is similar to your production machine (the machine you do actual work on that you don't want to hose) and that if you do hose your system you can simply reinstall (after all recovery attempts fail - learn to do recovery - that's the beauty of *nixes).
C) On the "2nd" test machine (if you have it) I would install two kernels, one for complie and one you leave untouched (such as SuSE fail safe kernel install as default) in case you hose the system and can't get "that" kernel to run/boot you can fall back on the other kernel to get into the system to fix or recompile the failed kernel.
D) Finally, if and when you start to compile kernels, start slow and simple. Do one thing at a time, like setting the type of cpu arch (e.g. for a P4 or AthlonXP cpu arch). Then learn about what did and didn't work. When compiling kernels sometimes the kernel will boot but make the system unstable or certain functionality will not work. Learn to read log files and error output to understand what happened.
I would not recommend kernel compilations on the system you use for day to day work. Smart sys admins "always" have test machines to do this sort of thing, That way they really don't have any downtime. I have a second maching in which I do beta testing, kernal compilations, patching, etc.... I also realise the my test machine is different than my production machine and must alway take into account that what worked on the test machine may not transfer over to my production machine because of different archictecture and cpu, etc. Learn how to compile a kernel is like learning how to build a car. If you get it right your car can scream, get better gas milage, or more power. If you screw it up you could fry your engined, lose your brakes, etc... and then you have a lot more work to do. The same holds true with kernels in regards to your system. You may get better memory usage, better graphics quaility and speed, make devices that wouldn't work run like they should, etc.. Or you can lose all your data, hose a hard drive or file system, destroy another OS (as in a dual boot system), etc... and then have to start from scratch (of in some rare case replace hardware).
Start slow and careful, do your research first, and never never do this on a system you can't afford to have things get hosed or lost. Only a fool (such as myself in earlier days) would learn to compile a kernel on a system that is needed to do what you have the computer for in the first place - to do work, manage files/data, check email, browse the web, etc.. etc.. etc.. Cause once you hose the kernel chances are you'll be able to do none of this and will be lucky if you get your system to run again without a reinstall.
HTH, Curtis.
good luck,
Oskar
My friend told me that recompile native kernel is a must. Is it ? If yes, what for ?
Best regards.. Q
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
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-- #------------------------ #Eric Bambach #Eric@CISU.net #------------------------
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Hash: SHA1
On Saturday 05 April 2003 11:12 am, Curtis Rey wrote:
> On Saturday 05 April 2003 11:46 am, Oskar Teran wrote:
> > ody wrote:
> > >hi list,
> > >I am a newbie, I wanna recompile my suse 8.1.
- ----------snip-----------
> D) Finally, if and when you start to compile kernels, start slow and
> simple. Do one thing at a time, like setting the type of cpu arch
> (e.g. for a P4 or AthlonXP cpu arch). Then learn about what did and
> didn't work. When compiling kernels sometimes the kernel will boot
> but make the system unstable or certain functionality will not work.
> Learn to read log files and error output to understand what happened.
- -------snip-------------
READ CAREFULLY
> Start slow and careful, do your research first, and never never do
> this on a system you can't afford to have things get hosed or lost.
!!!
> Only a fool (such as myself in earlier days) would learn to compile a
> kernel on a system that is needed to do what you have the computer
> for in the first place - to do work, manage files/data, check email,
> browse the web, etc.. etc.. etc.. Cause once you hose the kernel
> chances are you'll be able to do none of this and will be lucky if
> you get your system to run again without a reinstall.
>
> HTH, Curtis.
There's been alot of good information posted in this thread.
I'd like to say I felt a great deal of satisfaction the first time I
compiled (and installed) my own kernel.
Some of the hazards I've run into and heard about;
Lost sound (hasn't come up as much since alsa 0.9 / SuSE 8.1)
Lost video (I've never run across this but something to think about, I
think this may be more of an issue w/ nvidia cards)
Innability to boot your system
Do you know how to edit your lilo or grub configuration? Learn that
first.
I've never screwed up my system just by compiling the kernel, it's when
installing the new kernel that things seem most likely to go awry.
Having said all that I've consolidated and cleaned up the notes I use
when compiling kernels for my SuSE8.1 system, Hopefully if I've made
any errors someone else on the list will correct them.
I would like to state here that I recieved the original information I
used in making this checklist from others on this list. I don't wish to
take credit for the tips they gave me. If there are errors in this file
they are probably mine.
***************************************************************
I've tried to be accurate with these directions but If I'm
wrong somewhere its your machine that might not boot!
Remember, alot of what you are doing needs to be done as root
If you mess up thats to bad!!! ;-(
I'm sure that some of what I do is redundant,if so, or if I've missed
anything hopefully others on the list will point them out.
- --------End Pre-Ramble------------
OK here we go
note, you'll have to adapt the names based on the kernel you are
compiling
1) Backup your Working linux source files
2) copy your new source tarball to /usr/src
3). rename or delete the /usr/src/linux link
(I like to rename it to /usr/src/linuxBAK)
(this is totally unnescessary but it makes me feel good ;-)
# cd /usr/src
# ln -s linux-2.4.xxx.SuSE linux
[this creates a new /usr/src/linux link]
# cd /usr/src/linux
# make mrproper
["make mrproper" deletes all the files starting w/ a
"." that are in the /usr/src/linux directory. This is not a problem if
you are doing "make cloneconfig but if you've spent alot of time
making a new /usr/src/linux/.config then you probably want to back
it up]
#make cloneconfig
[this copies the running configuration (that you booted from)
and prompts you about new features (this is what I do) and creates
"/usr/src/linux/.config"]
# make menuconfig
[needs to be done with root access, you don't really
need to do this unless you want to change things such as
processor or if you want to add or remove features from the kernel]
[I used to use "make xconfig" but SuSE8.1 seems to not like
this (I don't know why but changes I made using "make xconfig"
always disappeared since using SuSE8.1). One GREAT thing about
using "make xconfig" for viewing the .config file is that it is really
easy to read the help notes related to the changes that can be made. ]
Edit Makefile to add your own identifying info at the line EXTRAVERSION
[ie EXTRAVERSION = Mine]
# make dep
# make clean
# make bzImage
[takes awhile]
# make modules
[takes awhile]
# make modules_install
copy bzImage from
/usr/src/linux/arch/i386/boot
to /boot and rename vmlinuz-2.4.xxx
copy System.map from
/usr/src/linux
to /boot and rename System.map-2.4.xxx
-------------------------
I think these next steps are where most people get into trouble
--------------------------
# mk_initrd -k "vmlinuz-2.4.xxx" -i "initrd-2.4.xxx" -s auto
[if using pre-8.0 SuSE then the "-s auto" flags aren't accepted]
edit /etc/lilo.conf and add an entry for your new kernel
[I just copy the current default entry and change
the appropriate items ("image = xxx" and "initrd=xxx")]
Don't delete the current entry, then if your new kernel
fails you can easily boot your exhisting system
# lilo -b /dev/YourBootPartition -t
This shows what will happen when you actually run lilo
# lilo -b /dev/YourBootPartition
reboot
********************************************************
Hope this is useful to someone
- --
dh
Don't shop at GoogleGear.com!
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There's been alot of good information posted in this thread.
Almost everything I've learned about Linux and the *nix mentallity has been greatly fostered by this list. I have had excellent direction, generally curtious guidance, and I lot of people (too numerous to list) have shown a great deal of consideration for the new and inexperienced. If I haven't said it before let me say so now.... This is probably the best computer resource I have found. I have been so inspired by my experiences that I have decided to make a career change into Comp Sci/IT/IS from my present profession of a health care practitioner (U.S. R.N.). I will be moving to San Diego in August and have already check out the various Universities and Colleges in order to obtain my 2nd Bachelors degree in this pursuit. I realized that I spend almost all of my free time on this damn Linux box. I can't seem to learn enough. I am always learning and find the whole venture fascinating and rewarding. For the newbies on the list. Linux is a growing experience. It shows you what "real" computing can be. Unlike Bills Beast that serves as more of an appliance, Linux is in a never ending state of development. It's more about make Information and computer technologies grow and fulfill it's promise than one might initially realize. Once again, Listen to the people hear. There are many very experienced, bright, and knowledgable people that put them selves out as a resource.... US IT AND LEARN. <end diatribe> Cheers, Curtis :) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+j6LJ7WVLiDrqeksRAoxmAJ9vtmzEdOASHYXWJGOrarZMLpM3IwCgzwPn 00KDuUbFuZTZQZv9YgccnA8= =vZWN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (10)
-
Ben Rosenberg -
Bruce Marshall -
Curtis Rey -
David Herman -
Dylan -
Eric -
ody -
Oskar Teran -
Paul Alfille -
Philipp Thomas