[opensuse] opensuse and problem of poland users
Hello everyone The firs I want to say sorry about my english. I'm an administrator of one of polish sites about suse and opensuse: susek.info about 3 years of my work I have a clear view about problem of polish users. Everything what I can do now is to describe those problems and maybe this will prepare next relases of opensuse to be more problemless than now 1 problem ADSL in poland as in all east contries we have an national monopol of telecomunication witch is for about 70% of peoples one way to have an Internet access the adsl acces by atm using thompson sagem and zxdsl in 32 bit two first are easy to use (get firmware and configure) but only if you have most popular wersion but the last is useless in 64 nothing is working: in my small investigation (I'm don't have 64 bit computer) there aren't modulest to atm and ppp in default kernel the rest problems are usual and there is no needs to describe it now I'm interested in support ppp atm etc in 10.3 in 32 and 64 version -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Fazer
Hello everyone
The firs I want to say sorry about my english.
I'm an administrator of one of polish sites about suse and opensuse:
susek.info
about 3 years of my work I have a clear view about problem of polish users.
Everything what I can do now is to describe those problems and maybe this will prepare next relases of opensuse to be more problemless than now
1 problem
ADSL
in poland as in all east contries we have an national monopol of telecomunication witch is for about 70% of peoples one way to have an Internet access the adsl acces by atm using thompson sagem and zxdsl
in 32 bit two first are easy to use (get firmware and configure) but only if you have most popular wersion but the last is useless
in 64 nothing is working: in my small investigation (I'm don't have 64 bit computer) there aren't modulest to atm and ppp in default kernel
This has been changed for openSUSE 10.3 in the kernel-source: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Thu Mar 8 02:22:14 CET 2007 - gregkh@suse.de - Add ATM support for x86-64 (fix bug 251202) You might want to test our latest Alpha3 that has these change. Is that everything needed? Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On Saturday 05 May 2007 10:49, Fazer wrote:
Hello everyone
ADSL
in poland as in all east contries we have an national monopol of telecomunication witch is for about 70% of peoples one way to have an Internet access the adsl acces by atm using thompson sagem and zxdsl
in 32 bit two first are easy to use (get firmware and configure) but only if you have most popular wersion but the last is useless
in 64 nothing is working: in my small investigation (I'm don't have 64 bit computer) there aren't modulest to atm and ppp in default kernel
the rest problems are usual and there is no needs to describe it now
I'm interested in support ppp atm etc in 10.3 in 32 and 64 version
Hi Fazer In Western Europe, we probably started using ADSL several years before you, when there was even less support, and only on 32 bit. Most people use ethernet ADSL routers for Linux, so there has never been very much pressure to support ppp, atm or anyother ADSL specific protocol- it is all handled under ethernet support which is very mature. The other advantage is that you set up your router once and if you have other computers or dual boot into windows or other linux distributions, then you only need to set up the ethernet interface to get access to the internet. ADSL modems are just a headache, requiring maintenance of the drivers to track the kernel. ["I can't upgrade to kernel version 2.8... because the ADSL modem drivers don't work"]. In Poland can you buy and use ADSL routers? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Vince L wrote:
In Poland can you buy and use ADSL routers?
Sure you can buy those, but why when one gets an USB modem for free? ;) Thus the question is not with what hardware is the Polish user better off, but what share of Polish market is targeted by Opensuse or even Novell itself? For example Mandriva suits their needs. ;) So no wonder that most novice fellas there use AFAIK Mandriva and those more experienced use Slackware (which AFAIK is THE Distro in Poland) or even Gentoo. Unfortunately Opensuse ain't sexy enough for Polish users yet. And *buntu is gaining pace on Polish market every day. I'm afraid if Opensuse keeps sleeping too long there will be no place for them in Poland anymore. Thx Jan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 07 May 2007 20:15, Jan Tiggy wrote:
Vince L wrote:
In Poland can you buy and use ADSL routers?
Sure you can buy those, but why when one gets an USB modem for free? ;)
Because if you have more than 1 pc, it makes sense to have an ethernet network and set up your internet connection once on the router Because if you have only 1 pc but more than 1 operating system, it makes sense to set up 1 router once Because if you are running Linux, and you are not happy with the ADSL USB modem support, you can rely on the ethernet support. You pay for your free USB modem in USB trouble and lack of Linux support. We have a phrase for it: Penny wise and Pound foolish.
Thus the question is not with what hardware is the Polish user better off, but what share of Polish market is targeted by Opensuse or even Novell itself? For example Mandriva suits their needs. ;)
So no wonder that most novice fellas there use AFAIK Mandriva and those more experienced use Slackware (which AFAIK is THE Distro in Poland) or even Gentoo. Unfortunately Opensuse ain't sexy enough for Polish users yet. And *buntu is gaining pace on Polish market every day. I'm afraid if Opensuse keeps sleeping too long there will be no place for them in Poland anymore.
Well, there is a heap of things I would prefer opensuse to work on rather than providing ADSL modem support to users in Poland - where they will become more affluent, see sense and all buy routers within the next 3 years - so there is no point in wasting effort on ADSL modem support. I know Poles are stubborn, and hold to old fashioned values, which is usually a good thing. But sticking to ADSL modems is not a useful national characteristic. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Vince L schrieb:
Because if you have more than 1 pc, it makes sense to have an ethernet network and set up your internet connection once on the router Because if you have only 1 pc but more than 1 operating system, it makes sense to set up 1 router once Because if you are running Linux, and you are not happy with the ADSL USB modem support, you can rely on the ethernet support.
AFAIK probably the most used Linux application in Poland is LMS (http://www.lms.org.pl/about.php?lang=en) and others of that kind. So please explain how does it fit your theory of one PC?
Well, there is a heap of things I would prefer opensuse to work on rather than providing ADSL modem support to users in Poland - where they will become more affluent, see sense and all buy routers within the next 3 years - so there is no point in wasting effort on ADSL modem support.
No point to you, indeed. But you ain't the sole Linux user, nor the British are (in the frame of the market difference).
I know Poles are stubborn, and hold to old fashioned values, which is usually a good thing. But sticking to ADSL modems is not a useful national characteristic.
This statement sounds like prejudice to me and proves that you do not understand the polish market at all. And complaining about being stubborn do only folks who are stubborn themselves. Thx Jan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 11 May 2007 05:06, Jan Tiggy wrote:
I know Poles are stubborn, and hold to old fashioned values, which is usually a good thing. But sticking to ADSL modems is not a useful national characteristic.
This statement sounds like prejudice to me and proves that you do not understand the polish market at all. And complaining about being stubborn do only folks who are stubborn themselves. Remember... world peace through world trade...
... the stubbornness would seem to be with suse. And suse will loose to Ubuntu if they do not quickly figure out that the free market is "market driven" ... if they want ADSL support you better give it to them... if suse doesn't, somebody else will... If I were suse I might try to solicit some talent in Poland to work on these details (and pay them for it) and stop whining. But for crying out loud, don't call a segment of your client base stubborn... that just isn't nice. :) -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 12 May 2007, M Harris wrote:
On Friday 11 May 2007 05:06, Jan Tiggy wrote:
I know Poles are stubborn, and hold to old fashioned values, which is usually a good thing. But sticking to ADSL modems is not a useful national characteristic.
This statement sounds like prejudice to me and proves that you do not understand the polish market at all. And complaining about being stubborn do only folks who are stubborn themselves.
Remember... world peace through world trade...
... the stubbornness would seem to be with suse. And suse will loose to Ubuntu if they do not quickly figure out that the free market is "market driven" ... if they want ADSL support you better give it to them... if suse doesn't, somebody else will...
I came late to this thread so I appologize if I repeat something that was said before. What do you mean if they need ADSL support? I am running 5 computers all with SUSE on them and they are all connected to internet via ADSL. There is absolutely no problem with it.
If I were suse I might try to solicit some talent in Poland to work on these details (and pay them for it) and stop whining. But for crying out loud, don't call a segment of your client base stubborn... that just isn't nice. :)
-- Kind regards,
M Harris <><
-- Regards, George Osvald OK Studio ® http://www.okstudio.com.au Email: mail@okstudio.com.au -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
George Osvald wrote:
I came late to this thread so I appologize if I repeat something that was said before. What do you mean if they need ADSL support? I am running 5 computers all with SUSE on them and they are all connected to internet via ADSL. There is absolutely no problem with it.
We're talking about direct support of ADSL modems (USB). The Polish users are using them quite often. Mandriva and Ubuntu have suited their needs and according to Andreas SUSE also will follow within the next release. Thx Jan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
While I agree that buying ADSL Ethernet router is the way to go in most cases, I also believe that we need better support for ADSL and Cable Modems, among other technologies. Cable Modems in Israel usually use L2TP protocol which is patented and very problematic to support for Linux, but it must be done. ADSL in Israel is less of a problem, because it uses PPPoE which is supported perfectly in SUSE. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
M Harris schrieb:
... the stubbornness would seem to be with suse. And suse will loose to Ubuntu if they do not quickly figure out that the free market is "market driven" ... if they want ADSL support you better give it to them... if suse doesn't, somebody else will...
As Andreas stated before there will be support for those modems in 10.3. So it seams the problem will be solved. Better later than never. Thx Jan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
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Alexey Eremenko -
Andreas Jaeger -
Fazer -
George Osvald -
Jan Tiggy -
M Harris -
Vince L