nVidia rocks; Don't Buy An ATI card
After suffering for months with an ATI 9200 with Suse 9.2, based on recommendations, I went and got a GeForce 5200. There's no comparison! The GeForce cost $20 less, and is 100 times better! The driver ( once I understood how to install it ) performs flawlessly.
On Saturday 14 May 2005 08:42, John Bailo wrote:
After suffering for months with an ATI 9200 with Suse 9.2, based on recommendations, I went and got a GeForce 5200.
Gee, that's strange, my ati 9800 pro works flawlessly also. Wonder what YOUR problem was/is? General statements such as yours seem like trolling. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 9.3 Kernel 2.6.11 KDE 3.4.0 Kmail 1.8 For Mondo/Mindi backup support go to http://www.mikenjane.net/~mike 10:17am up 2 days 14:56, 4 users, load average: 2.14, 2.24, 2.26
On Saturday 14 May 2005 01:19, mike wrote:
On Saturday 14 May 2005 08:42, John Bailo wrote:
After suffering for months with an ATI 9200 with Suse 9.2, based on recommendations, I went and got a GeForce 5200.
Gee, that's strange, my ati 9800 pro works flawlessly also. Wonder what YOUR problem was/is?
General statements such as yours seem like trolling.
Sorry, but I went from a dog Radeon 9200 to a stellar GeForce FX5200. Maybe the 9800 is better -- but I do some high end gaming, and it's like night and day...I would never recommend any ATI product to any Suse user after my experience. The other thing is I would definitely always stick only to hardware on the Suse supported hardware database. I had a similar problem with an SB 24-bit Live! All those problems were solved went I bought a $13 CMI based card.
Mike
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On Saturday 14 May 2005 11.30, John Bailo wrote:
On Saturday 14 May 2005 01:19, mike wrote:
On Saturday 14 May 2005 08:42, John Bailo wrote:
After suffering for months with an ATI 9200 with Suse 9.2, based on recommendations, I went and got a GeForce 5200.
Gee, that's strange, my ati 9800 pro works flawlessly also. Wonder what YOUR problem was/is?
General statements such as yours seem like trolling.
Sorry, but I went from a dog Radeon 9200 to a stellar GeForce FX5200.
Maybe the 9800 is better -- but I do some high end gaming, and it's like night and day...I would never recommend any ATI product to any Suse user after my experience.
The other thing is I would definitely always stick only to hardware on the Suse supported hardware database. I had a similar problem with an SB 24-bit Live! All those problems were solved went I bought a $13 CMI based card.
Mike
-- Powered by SuSE 9.3 Kernel 2.6.11 KDE 3.4.0 Kmail 1.8 For Mondo/Mindi backup support go to http://www.mikenjane.net/~mike 10:17am up 2 days 14:56, 4 users, load average: 2.14, 2.24, 2.26
That weird. I run a SB Live Value! since a few years backand it is perfect. I haven't had too much problems with it. (So far) So as said for the gfx.. What was your problem? -- /Rikard " Sharing knowledge is the most fundamental act of friendship. Because it is a way you can give something without loosing something." -R. Stallman --------------------------------------------------------------- Rikard Johnels email : rikjoh@norweb.se Mob : +46 763 19 76 25 PGP : 0x461CEE56 ---------------------------------------------------------------
On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 02:30:59AM -0700, John Bailo wrote:
On Saturday 14 May 2005 01:19, mike wrote:
On Saturday 14 May 2005 08:42, John Bailo wrote:
After suffering for months with an ATI 9200 with Suse 9.2, based on recommendations, I went and got a GeForce 5200.
Gee, that's strange, my ati 9800 pro works flawlessly also. Wonder what YOUR problem was/is?
General statements such as yours seem like trolling.
Sorry, but I went from a dog Radeon 9200 to a stellar GeForce FX5200.
Maybe the 9800 is better -- but I do some high end gaming, and it's like night and day...I would never recommend any ATI product to any Suse user after my experience.
I've always like Nvidia. i wouldn't recommend it before I knew ATI was crap for most OSs other than Windows. Mike, you ever get that card working in Free BSD with true 3D? If you have you're way better than I'm giving credit for.
The other thing is I would definitely always stick only to hardware on the Suse supported hardware database. I had a similar problem with an SB 24-bit Live! All those problems were solved went I bought a $13 CMI based card.
I have a Sound Blaster Live! but I think it's not the one you have.... I don't think. I bought it like 2 years ago and it works without problems in every OS I've used (Over 80 of them).
Mike
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On Saturday 14 May 2005 14:55, Allen wrote:
Gee, that's strange, my ati 9800 pro works flawlessly also. Wonder what YOUR problem was/is?
General statements such as yours seem like trolling.
Sorry, but I went from a dog Radeon 9200 to a stellar GeForce FX5200.
Maybe the 9800 is better -- but I do some high end gaming, and it's like night and day...I would never recommend any ATI product to any Suse user after my experience.
I've always like Nvidia. i wouldn't recommend it before I knew ATI was crap for most OSs other than Windows. Mike, you ever get that card working in Free BSD with true 3D? If you have you're way better than I'm giving credit for.
Why would I want to do that? I use it under suse. Works like a champ. 3D included. Takes a couple of minutes to compile the drivers, and away I go. Been doing it since I had a 7500. Then an 8500, and now the 9800.
The other thing is I would definitely always stick only to hardware on the Suse supported hardware database. I had a similar problem with an SB 24-bit Live! All those problems were solved went I bought a $13 CMI based card.
I have a Sound Blaster Live! but I think it's not the one you have.... I don't think. I bought it like 2 years ago and it works without problems in every OS I've used (Over 80 of them).
Same here. If it ever dies, I'll get something better. Until then this one is fine. I don't think my hearing is good enough to hear all the bells and whistles of the new 24bit cards with dolby 7.1, and so on. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 9.3 Kernel 2.6.11 KDE 3.4.0 Kmail 1.8 For Mondo/Mindi backup support go to http://www.mikenjane.net/~mike 6:27pm up 2 days 23:06, 4 users, load average: 2.20, 2.24, 2.24
On Sat, 2005-05-14 at 02:30 -0700, John Bailo wrote:
Sorry, but I went from a dog Radeon 9200 to a stellar GeForce FX5200.
Guys, you get good graphics card manufacturers, and you get bad graphics card manufacturers. I had a Gainward TNT2 many years ago, which was a fabulous card. Apart from a few nvidia driver issues (which they still haven't fixed, by the way), I didn't have any complaints. The driver issues did bug me though, and thinking it was the card, I replaced it, and in the space of a year went through a number of different TNT and GeForce cards, with similar results. However, on some cards, getting the nVidia drivers two work was a real pain, and none of those cards were cutting edge new. Eventually I bought a Gigabyte Radeon 7000 card, and was blown away by it. Plugged it in, Yast said howzit, and my 3D worked. What's more, all the issues I had with the nVidia cards went away, and image quality was far better than what I was used to. The Radeon 7000 is only slightly faster than a TNT2, and when I needed more power I bought a Radon 7500. Unfortunately I decided not to spend the little extra for a Gigabyte card, and bought from PowerColor. Mistake. While setting it up was still a plugin-and-forget affair, and image quality is still good, performance is poor compared to what I see on other brands, and the firmware is buggy - for example when the card is cold, POST screen is corrupted (firmware issue confirmed by PowerColor support, they just never did anything about it). To make matters worse, this card started to fail after a only about two years. Now I'm back on nVidia again, I've been through a number of GeForce based cards, from a MX4000 through to a FX5700. For the first time in a few years Yast can't detect my screen properly. I'm having a lot of trouble getting the driver loaded, and every so often I have to wipe my tmp directories or X won't start. Right now I have an old Gainward GeForce2 GTS which works well. It has nothing on the ATi cards for image quality, but at least it's fast - faster than any ofthe MX based cards and faster than a few lower FX cards too. So you get good nVidia cards and you get really horrible nVidia cards You get good ATI cards and you get really horrible ATI cards. Take your pick -- Hans du Plooy SagacIT (Pty) Ltd hansdp at sagacit dot com
On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 10:18:02AM +0200, Hans du Plooy wrote:
On Sat, 2005-05-14 at 02:30 -0700, John Bailo wrote:
Sorry, but I went from a dog Radeon 9200 to a stellar GeForce FX5200.
Guys, you get good graphics card manufacturers, and you get bad graphics card manufacturers.
I had a Gainward TNT2 many years ago, which was a fabulous card. Apart from a few nvidia driver issues (which they still haven't fixed, by the way), I didn't have any complaints.
The driver issues did bug me though, and thinking it was the card, I replaced it, and in the space of a year went through a number of different TNT and GeForce cards, with similar results. However, on some cards, getting the nVidia drivers two work was a real pain, and none of those cards were cutting edge new.
This box I'm typing from was the first computer I ever bought. It's an HP Pavilion, with a Pentium 3 733 MHz processor, came with an Nvidia "Vanta" although the box says TNT2 with 16 MBs, and it works in like every OS including Free BSD, and SUSE finds it no prblem and I grab the drivers with YAST, and then I can play Tux Racer. The box next to me right now is my gaming box, it has a 128 MB Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 which I use for Quake 3, UT, UT 2003, UT 2004, UT2, Wolfenstien, Quake (All), and every version of Doom. It works fine although ti does lag on Doom 3, I need a better card for it. In Linux, the card works great without a stop. My laptop, I paid the money to get the Nvidia card in it. It's an Nvidia Ge Force 5200 GO. 32 MBs. Plays Doom fine, Doom 2, Final Doom, UT, Wolfenstien, and is running SUSE 8.2 Professional. Funny how SUSE can work on hardware newer than it. HEhe.
Eventually I bought a Gigabyte Radeon 7000 card, and was blown away by it. Plugged it in, Yast said howzit, and my 3D worked. What's more, all the issues I had with the nVidia cards went away, and image quality was far better than what I was used to.
The Radeon 7000 is only slightly faster than a TNT2, and when I needed more power I bought a Radon 7500. Unfortunately I decided not to spend the little extra for a Gigabyte card, and bought from PowerColor. Mistake. While setting it up was still a plugin-and-forget affair, and image quality is still good, performance is poor compared to what I see on other brands, and the firmware is buggy - for example when the card is cold, POST screen is corrupted (firmware issue confirmed by PowerColor support, they just never did anything about it). To make matters worse, this card started to fail after a only about two years.
Now I'm back on nVidia again, I've been through a number of GeForce based cards, from a MX4000 through to a FX5700. For the first time in a few years Yast can't detect my screen properly. I'm having a lot of trouble getting the driver loaded, and every so often I have to wipe my tmp directories or X won't start.
Right now I have an old Gainward GeForce2 GTS which works well. It has nothing on the ATi cards for image quality, but at least it's fast - faster than any ofthe MX based cards and faster than a few lower FX cards too.
So you get good nVidia cards and you get really horrible nVidia cards You get good ATI cards and you get really horrible ATI cards.
Take your pick
-- Hans du Plooy SagacIT (Pty) Ltd hansdp at sagacit dot com
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On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 14:32 -0400, Allen wrote:
This box I'm typing from was the first computer I ever bought. It's an HP Pavilion, with a Pentium 3 733 MHz processor, came with an Nvidia "Vanta" although the box says TNT2 with 16 MBs, and it works in like every OS including Free BSD, and SUSE finds it no prblem and I grab the drivers with YAST, and then I can play Tux Racer.
The box next to me right now is my gaming box, it has a 128 MB Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 which I use for Quake 3, UT, UT 2003, UT 2004, UT2, Wolfenstien, Quake (All), and every version of Doom. It works fine although ti does lag on Doom 3, I need a better card for it. In Linux, the card works great without a stop.
My laptop, I paid the money to get the Nvidia card in it. It's an Nvidia Ge Force 5200 GO. 32 MBs. Plays Doom fine, Doom 2, Final Doom, UT, Wolfenstien, and is running SUSE 8.2 Professional. Funny how SUSE can work on hardware newer than it. HEhe.
Like I said, *some* nVidia cards. Again, it's got nothing to do with the chip on the graphics board. It's all about how well it is implemented. I've had extremely bad luck with poorly designed craphics cards from PowerColor, AOpen, ASUS, ST-Lab and a few more. The again, I've never had any problems with cards from Gigabyte or Gainward. The driver issues I was talking about is not about installing and getting them to run. I have a TV tuner with a BrookTree (now Conexant) chipset. I could never get my TV signal to go fullscreen in 1024x768 - it does, but half the image is missing. Googling around I found out that it's got something to do with the PCI bus bandwidth - the best explanation I got was fairly vague - and basically I have to run X in 16bit colour instead of 24bit. Later when I got my first Radeon, I neglected to set the colour down to 16bit, and guess what? TV worked full screen in 24bit. I took the machine to work and plugged it into a Cornerstone screen and took X up to 1600x1600@24bit and I could still get full screen TV. It worked with a Matrox card too. And guess what, it actually worked correctly with the TNT2 Vanta using the nv driver instead of the nvidia driver. So what does that tell you. BTW, I know a few people who have similar TV tuner cards, all BT based, but different chipsets, and they have the same issues with nVidia cards with the nvidia driver. Another issue. My montor can do 1024x768@69hz - it's an old 15". Scanrates are 30-54 and 50-120. YaST/Sax pick up the screen correctly, since I submitted the specs to SUSE roundabout version 8.2. With the nv driver, I can use Sax to tune my display to the correct refresh rate, and it works. Using the nvidia driver, I have to change the 30-54 down to 30-51, otherwise the nVidia card sends my screen into "out of range" mode, and pretty much kills off the keyboard, so I have to ssh into the box and restart it. So then I only get up to 62hz - and there's quite a difference if you spend a lot of time in front of the screen. I'm not saying nVidia is bad. This is not about nVidia vs. ATi. It's about nVidia. nVidia cards have their pros and cons. Saying "nVidia rocks; Don't Buy An ATI card" is narrow minded and unfair. ATi have pros and cons too, and it really depends on what you want and what you need from a card. I do loads of video capturing (have a whole VHS library to convert to digital format) and I do a little gaming. The trouble that the nVidia driver comes with my be insignificant to someone else, but it's a major showstopper for me. Different strokes.... -- Hans du Plooy SagacIT (Pty) Ltd hansdp at sagacit dot com
On Wednesday 18 May 2005 03:19, Hans du Plooy wrote:
I do loads of video capturing (have a whole VHS library to convert to digital format)
Are you able to do this in Linux? If so, what is your setup? I have been doing a similar project converting VHS, but I have been using a Hauppauge USB WinTV PVR in Windows. I would love to do this with Linux if I knew how. Thank you. Bryan ******************************************************** Powered by SuSE Linux 9.2 Professional KDE 3.3.0 KMail 1.7.1 This is a Microsoft-free computer Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net ********************************************************
On Wed, 2005-05-18 at 08:41 -0400, Bryan Tyson wrote:
I do loads of video capturing (have a whole VHS library to convert to digital format)
Are you able to do this in Linux? If so, what is your setup? I have been doing a similar project converting VHS, but I have been using a Hauppauge USB WinTV PVR in Windows. I would love to do this with Linux if I knew how.
Well, my TV card has an AV in, so I hook the VCR up to it that way and the sound of the VCR goes into the line-in on my soundcard (SB Live). Then I just use mencoder to grab the video off and convert it to AVI - burn that onto a normal data dvd. I don't know the mencoder switches for that from memory - I've written a small script to do that. Once I find time to spend at home I'll work on getting the stream from the VCR converted to a DVD compliant mpeg file to burn proper video DVDs. -- Hans du Plooy SagacIT (Pty) Ltd hansdp at sagacit dot com
Just a quick rejoinder to this nv/ati thread in defence of ATi, not in direct response to the message that this is a reply to. (I don't work for either). We have various Athlon64 notebooks here with ATi Mobility Radeon 9700 and nVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 Go chips. Linux distributions used are SuSE 9.2 and Fedora Core 3, 64-bit versions. We use the commercial driver for both, downloaded from the ATi's / nVIDIA's website respectively. Both work well. We haven't benchmarked either. So, for our hardware at least, both of these manufacturers give good Linux support in their commercial drivers. I can't comment about relative performance, nor about the open source drivers, since I haven't used those for a long time - since getting a GeForce FX 5600 for my desktop machine some time ago, in fact. -- Bill
On Saturday 14 May 2005 12:30, John Bailo wrote:
Sorry, but I went from a dog Radeon 9200 to a stellar GeForce FX5200.
Argh! nvidia might be a better option for Linux because of the drivers. But you're comparing card that don't have the same capabilities. 9200 has Pixel & Vertex shader 1.0 while FX5200 has 2.0. In Windows empirical terms this means DirectX8.1 vs 9.0. A fairer comparison would be ATI 9550 vs GeForce FX5200 or FX5500. Or ATI X300 vs GeForce 6200. Or ATI X600/700 vs GeForce 6600. So if you would have went from Radeon 9200 to Radeon 9550, the later might have been the "stellar" one. And BTW, I own nvidia FX5200 and probably my next card will be GeForce 6600. But I don't want to see ATI bashed for the wrong reasons. I don't know if their latest driver is ok, that is does it install easily, are there any problems? Because that was the major trouble with ATI: they were slow at releasing new drivers, and at keeping them in sync with latest developments in XFree86 of X.org respectively.
At 07:30 PM 14/05/2005, John Bailo wrote:
On Saturday 14 May 2005 01:19, mike wrote:
On Saturday 14 May 2005 08:42, John Bailo wrote:
After suffering for months with an ATI 9200 with Suse 9.2, based on recommendations, I went and got a GeForce 5200.
Gee, that's strange, my ati 9800 pro works flawlessly also. Wonder what YOUR problem was/is?
General statements such as yours seem like trolling.
Sorry, but I went from a dog Radeon 9200 to a stellar GeForce FX5200.
funny, my Gigabyte 9200 works without fail or problems running games on w98 on vmware on 9.2 even better than w98 raw. scsijon
Maybe the 9800 is better -- but I do some high end gaming, and it's like night and day...I would never recommend any ATI product to any Suse user after my experience.
The other thing is I would definitely always stick only to hardware on the Suse supported hardware database. I had a similar problem with an SB 24-bit Live! All those problems were solved went I bought a $13 CMI based card.
Mike
-- Powered by SuSE 9.3 Kernel 2.6.11 KDE 3.4.0 Kmail 1.8 For Mondo/Mindi backup support go to http://www.mikenjane.net/~mike 10:17am up 2 days 14:56, 4 users, load average: 2.14, 2.24, 2.26
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On Sun, 2005-05-29 at 12:50 +1000, scsijon wrote:
Sorry, but I went from a dog Radeon 9200 to a stellar GeForce FX5200.
funny, my Gigabyte 9200 works without fail or problems running games on w98 on vmware on 9.2
Just bought myself a Gigabyte Radeon 9250 - works a treat too. Actually I had trouble initially, the exact same issues I had with the nVidia MX cards: it works after installing the driver, but after I reboot, when X starts, the screen goes into DPMS mode. Disabling apic and acpi at boot time sorted this problem out on the Radeon - haven't tried it with nVidia. There seems to be acpi/apic issues with 9.3 as I've had to disable both to get 9.3 to boot on our server (P-III class server board) too. -- Hans du Plooy SagacIT (Pty) Ltd hansdp at sagacit dot com
On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 11:42:15PM -0700, John Bailo wrote:
After suffering for months with an ATI 9200 with Suse 9.2, based on recommendations, I went and got a GeForce 5200.
There's no comparison!
The GeForce cost $20 less, and is 100 times better!
The driver ( once I understood how to install it ) performs flawlessly.
I could have told you that ;) I buy nothing but Nvidia. Even my laptop has an Nvidia GeForce FX GO 5200.
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On Saturday 14 May 2005 08:52, Allen wrote:
On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 11:42:15PM -0700, John Bailo wrote:
After suffering for months with an ATI 9200 with Suse 9.2, based on recommendations, I went and got a GeForce 5200.
There's no comparison!
The GeForce cost $20 less, and is 100 times better!
The driver ( once I understood how to install it ) performs flawlessly.
I could have told you that ;) I buy nothing but Nvidia. Even my laptop has an Nvidia GeForce FX GO 5200.
On the other hand, my machine at work is a DELL Optiplex GX280 with an nVidia Quadro 1300, and when I installed SuSE 9.2 I could not get it to recognize/use the dual-monitor capability. So, I end up booted into WinXP all the time, because I just can't take the time at the office to figure out how to make it all work. They pay me for other things. The nVidia is not a new model, so it's not like I was using bleeding edge hardware. At home, on this machine, I run SuSE 9.2 only (until my 9.3 Upgrade arrives...). I've got some old ATI card in here, and recent releases of SuSE have actually been able to recognize it and even make use of hardware 3D. Go figure. Didn't even take weeks/months of Googling, reading man pages, and combing the lists... it just worked. After the uniformity of my experiences from SuSE 5.2 up through 9.x, that was really surprising. Unfortunately, over all those years I got thoroughly out of the habit of playing any games, so now I've got no use for 3D. :-) As well, I've had various bits of hardware be recognized and configured by SuSE install for years, then install the latest SuSE and have it forget it ever knew this sound-card, that video card, this other network adapter... So, with the way this thread has been going in both directions, I still think that having YaST recognize and properly configure your system is generally a matter of luck or whim of the gods. Usually, it takes me until the next release is coming out, to get the last release all working. Keeps me off the streets. Kevin
Hello all We've got about five Linux boxes in our subnet. The rest of the systems are Solaris 6-8. We are having problems logging into our NIS accounts. All Linux boxes are running NIS clients. When we log into our accounts (maintained on a Solaris8 box in a different subnet), it can take several minutes (between 4 and 8 minutes) from the moment we enter our password until the moment the GNOME or KDE environment appears to be ready. Furthermore, opening any flavor of terminals takes longer time compared to when we log in a local account on the same machine. We suspect a slowdown due to NFS mounting. This suspicion came from noticing that logging into a local account and then doing a "su" to a NIS account was much much faster (than a KDE/GNOME login) but copying files between NFS-mounted and local disks was quite slow. The Solaris systems do not exhibit this problem (we'd be out of business if they did). We've even tried paring down all of the user "." files to the bare minimum as well (.profile, .cshrc,. whatever). Spending some time in GoogleLand, I saw some mail regarding reiserfs problems with NFS. Our Linux boxes have been installed with most default settings including reiserfs. All motherboards are from different vendors (Asus,Tyan,GigaByte etc) and all are AMD64 3000+ and above. Has anyone seen and perhaps conquered this dragon? TIA&Cheers
John Bailo wrote:
After suffering for months with an ATI 9200 with Suse 9.2, based on recommendations, I went and got a GeForce 5200.
There's no comparison!
The GeForce cost $20 less, and is 100 times better!
The driver ( once I understood how to install it ) performs flawlessly.
I agree this one works perfectly. Just download the free driver from NVidia and run it. ( you will need a complete kernel source and basic .config ) For tht you get 3D and very stable X. -- 73 de Donn Washburn Hpage: " http://www.hal-pc.org/~n5xwb " Ham Callsign N5XWB Email: " n5xwb@hal-pc.org " 307 Savoy St. HAMs: " n5xwb@arrl.net " Sugar Land, TX 77478 BMW MOA #: 4146 - Ambassador LL# 1.281.242.3256 " http://counter.li.org " #279316
On Sat May 14 2005 12:58 pm, Donn Washburn wrote:
The GeForce cost $20 less, and is 100 times better!
The driver ( once I understood how to install it ) performs flawlessly.
I agree this one works perfectly. Just download the free driver from NVidia and run it. ( you will need a complete kernel source and basic .config ) For tht you get 3D and very stable X. why do you need the source to install the nvidia driver? I have an NVidia card, and I get the wonderful NVIDIA screen when I boot up. I don't think I installed any source files..
-- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux user # 367800 X-Request-PGP: http://home.comcast.net/~p.cartwright/wsb/key.asc
participants (14)
-
Allen -
Bryan Tyson -
Donn Washburn -
elefino -
Hans du Plooy -
John Bailo -
Mark Crean -
mike -
Paul Cartwright -
Pierre Patino -
Rikard Johnels -
scsijon -
Silviu Marin-Caea -
William Gallafent