Re: [SLE] Perhaps I've found a reason why so many people are having problems with SuSE 9.1?
On Tuesday 01 June 2004 03:14, David Johanson wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
On Monday 31 May 2004 22:56, Preston Crawford wrote:
<snip>
ALSO the title of your post suggests that "so many people are having trouble with 9.1"....
Where did you get that impression? Why would you come to a help forum for SuSE and assume everyone is having problems with suse?
Morning John -
Well, one normally goes to see the physican when they are ill, don't they? Likewise, most folks, at least from what I'm reading, come to the SuSE help forum to get help. Sure, there are lots of folks who also participate to help, but the majority of original posts are about some kind of problem. Yes? Thus his assumption. From our experience, our office group, he is correct; not a single 9.1 install that is fully functional, especialy in the area of USB.
dave ;-)
My point is that to assume some product is problematic based posts in the primary source for help is precisely NOT VALID. It should be painfully obvious that those NOT having problems don't post here. No USB issuse in my install of 9.1 -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
On Tue, 2004-06-01 at 12:44, John Andersen wrote:
On Tuesday 01 June 2004 03:14, David Johanson wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
On Monday 31 May 2004 22:56, Preston Crawford wrote:
<snip>
ALSO the title of your post suggests that "so many people are having trouble with 9.1"....
Where did you get that impression? Why would you come to a help forum for SuSE and assume everyone is having problems with suse?
Morning John -
Well, one normally goes to see the physican when they are ill, don't they? Likewise, most folks, at least from what I'm reading, come to the SuSE help forum to get help. Sure, there are lots of folks who also participate to help, but the majority of original posts are about some kind of problem. Yes? Thus his assumption. From our experience, our office group, he is correct; not a single 9.1 install that is fully functional, especialy in the area of USB.
dave ;-)
My point is that to assume some product is problematic based posts in the primary source for help is precisely NOT VALID.
It should be painfully obvious that those NOT having problems don't post here.
No USB issuse in my install of 9.1
Couldn't agree more. There is plenty of folks out there just enjoying
there 9.1 setup. I'm one of them ;)
Coming from Mandrake I wanted to try YAST and decided to give a go at
SuSE 9.1 for the next 6 months or so.
Dell Dimension 4100
- P3 933MHz
- 512Mb PC133 RAM
- 2 HDs (master=120Gb Seagate / slave=80Gb Western Digital)
- 2 DVD-RW (master=Pioneer 107D / slave=Pioneer 106D)
- Sparkle GeForce 5900XT
- Soundblaster Live! 1024
- Firewire ieee1394a / USB 2.0 PCI card
- Firewire enclosure with 2 HDs
(master=120Gb Western Digital / slave=20Gb Seagate)
- IPod 30Gb
- 8 in 1 memory card reader (USB)
- Dell P1110 21" monitor (running @1600x1200)
I have (on my slave 80Gb drive):
* LVM2 + ReiserFS working perfectly well
(/ is Ext3, /boot is Ext2 and both outside the LVM)
* VMWare (4.5.1 | 3/15/04 | Build 7568) installed and setup with
W2K
* Codeweaver Crossover Standard 3.0 installed with MS Office 2000 +
IE6 SP1
* Full 3D acceleration with nVidia drivers (from YAST)
* Samba working (with WinXP PC on my home network and with VMWare)
* Sound working
* iPod (firewire) working (with gtkpod)
* Firewire enclosure working
* DVD-RW working
* Encoding mp3 (Grip) + playing working (Juk)
* Encrypted DVDs working (mplayer)
* quicktime trailers from Apple Ok with mplayer plugin in Firefox
* SSH from work to home is fine
* apt + synaptic setup (using packman)
Now having said that:
* K3b does not recognize my 2nd DVD-RW (slave)
* Only 1 HD in my firewire enclosure is found at any time...
* I can't install MS Office 2000 SP1a and SP3 in Codeweaver Crossover
(I've opened a ticket with their bugzilla)
* I don't like some of the naming in the KDE menu (like "web browser"
for epiphany or "Peer to Peer" for Apollon). I prefer to see the
real name of the application. I don't know how to change that yet.
* Redrawing of GTK2 apps are really really slow. Evolution is a dog.
I switched to KMail, the speed difference is mind boggling!
* Gnucash has a problem when you resize the window with the mouse
* I cannot change the volume for my SB Live! with the volume control
I have to adjust the volume using the volume control on the speakers
* problem with password length limited to 8 chars when I use passwd
(fine when done from YAST)
I've just updated to KDE 3.2.2 remotely from work, although I cannot
verify all is ok until I go back home tonight when it may be too late ;)
What makes me even happier is that initially my 80Gb HD was in a
different box (dual P3 733MHz) with a SMP kernel and slightly different
hardware and when I switched the HD to my Dell 4100 (after changing my
/etc/fstab, /boot/grub/menu.lst, /boot/grub/devices.map and
/etc/grub.conf) during the first boot YAST found new hardware and
reconfigured everything!
So I'm sort of a happy camper here :)
--
Frederic Soulier
On Tuesday June 1 2004 8:19 am, Frederic Soulier wrote: [snip]
* I don't like some of the naming in the KDE menu (like "web browser" for epiphany or "Peer to Peer" for Apollon). I prefer to see the real name of the application. I don't know how to change that yet.
You'll find that in our Control Panel. :) Fred -- "The only secure Microsoft software is what's still shrink-wrapped in their warehouse..." (Forno)
Frederic Soulier wrote:
On Tue, 2004-06-01 at 12:44, John Andersen wrote:
On Tuesday 01 June 2004 03:14, David Johanson wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
On Monday 31 May 2004 22:56, Preston Crawford wrote:
<snip>
ALSO the title of your post suggests that "so many people are having trouble with 9.1"....
Where did you get that impression? Why would you come to a help forum for SuSE and assume everyone is having problems with suse?
Morning John -
Well, one normally goes to see the physican when they are ill, don't they? Likewise, most folks, at least from what I'm reading, come to the SuSE help forum to get help. Sure, there are lots of folks who also participate to help, but the majority of original posts are about some kind of problem. Yes? Thus his assumption. From our experience, our office group, he is correct; not a single 9.1 install that is fully functional, especialy in the area of USB.
dave ;-)
My point is that to assume some product is problematic based posts in the primary source for help is precisely NOT VALID.
It should be painfully obvious that those NOT having problems don't post here.
No USB issuse in my install of 9.1
Couldn't agree more. There is plenty of folks out there just enjoying there 9.1 setup. I'm one of them ;) Coming from Mandrake I wanted to try YAST and decided to give a go at SuSE 9.1 for the next 6 months or so.
Dell Dimension 4100 - P3 933MHz - 512Mb PC133 RAM - 2 HDs (master=120Gb Seagate / slave=80Gb Western Digital) <---* - 2 DVD-RW (master=Pioneer 107D / slave=Pioneer 106D) <---*
[rest pruned] Not too long ago I had a small discussion in this forum about having 2 HDs on the same IDE controller and having DVE/CDROM and burner on the other IDE controller. My contention - and what I practice - is to have the HDs are the Masters on the separate controllers and the CDROM etc devices as Slaves on the IDE cables. For example, I have- Seagate HD hda Pioneer DVD hdb Seagate HD hdc Pioneer DVD burner hdd The rationale behind this is that it is not possible to read and write simultaneously on the same IDE Controller and to get better speed performance between HD - HD or DVD - DVDRW put them in a configuration like I have. A number of people didn't quite agree with me and were suggesting doing what you have done. A few days ago a friend of mine - who also has a similar setup to yours, BTW - tried to install the latest version of Nero 6 on his Windows XP system. Nero kept coming up with the warning message that having the DVD and the burner on the same IDE Controller will cause read and write problems. The warning went away when he reconfigured his system to be the same as mine. Cheers. -- I am not young enough to know everything.
On Wednesday 02 June 2004 06:16, Basil Chupin wrote:
Not too long ago I had a small discussion in this forum about having 2 HDs on the same IDE controller and having DVE/CDROM and burner on the other IDE controller. My contention - and what I practice - is to have the HDs are the Masters on the separate controllers and the CDROM etc devices as Slaves on the IDE cables. For example, I have-
Seagate HD hda Pioneer DVD hdb
Seagate HD hdc Pioneer DVD burner hdd
The rationale behind this is that it is not possible to read and write simultaneously on the same IDE Controller and to get better speed performance between HD - HD or DVD - DVDRW put them in a configuration like I have.
A number of people didn't quite agree with me and were suggesting doing what you have done.
A few days ago a friend of mine - who also has a similar setup to yours, BTW - tried to install the latest version of Nero 6 on his Windows XP system.
Nero kept coming up with the warning message that having the DVD and the burner on the same IDE Controller will cause read and write problems. The warning went away when he reconfigured his system to be the same as mine.
Thanks for the info I'm going to investigate this one. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Frederic P. Soulier frederic@wallaby.uklinux.net OpenPGP key available on http://www.keyserver.net 1024D/BA6700ED 49A6 8E8E 4230 8D41 1ADE B649 3203 1DD2 BA67 00ED _____________________________________________________________________
John Andersen wrote:
On Tuesday 01 June 2004 03:14, David Johanson wrote:
John Andersen wrote:
On Monday 31 May 2004 22:56, Preston Crawford wrote:
<snip>
ALSO the title of your post suggests that "so many people are having trouble with 9.1"....
Where did you get that impression? Why would you come to a help forum for SuSE and assume everyone is having problems with suse?
Morning John -
Well, one normally goes to see the physician when they are ill, don't they? Likewise, most folks, at least from what I'm reading, come to the SuSE help forum to get help. Sure, there are lots of folks who also participate to help, but the majority of original posts are about some kind of problem. Yes? Thus his assumption. From our experience, our office group, he is correct; not a single 9.1 install that is fully functional, especially in the area of USB.
dave ;-)
My point is that to assume some product is problematic based posts in the primary source for help is precisely NOT VALID.
Of course it's VALID, although statistically it is not a sample on which you can base any conclusions. The question as to what per cent of the entire installed base is having problems is undetermined, but it does speak to those participating on this group.
It should be painfully obvious that those NOT having problems don't post here.
Well, true to an extent; what about the folks who do not know about this list or who simply don't use help groups. I know of a few who fit these categories.
No USB issues in my install of 9.1
So here is an example of your install working and two of mine not only having serious USB issues, but problems recognizing the ide zip drives and printing issues as well. This doesn't mean it's a bad product, but 9.1 is giving me fits in many areas in which 7.1, which I'm still running, 7.2, 7.3. 8.0. 8.1. 8.2 and 9.0 did not. This would suggest that it IS PROBLEMATIC but not necessarily so for everyone. And based on what I've seen here for the past couple of weeks, I'm not alone. I've even posted a couple of these issues; got a solution for the zips but the solution is odd and I've posted that, a couple suggestions for the USB but am not at the machines to try out until tomorrow, and I haven't yet posted the printing issue. But true problems they are which I haven't encountered in the 2.4 kernel releases. -- David C. Johanson Linux Counter # 116410 Powered by SuSE Linux 7.1 People who behold a phenomenon will often extend their thinking beyond it; people who merely hear about the phenomenon will not be moved to think at all. -- Goethe
On Tuesday 01 June 2004 05:13, David Johanson wrote:
No USB issues in my install of 9.1
So here is an example of your install working and two of mine not only having serious USB issues, but problems recognizing the ide zip drives and
Have you seen this item? http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2004/01/USB_2_0.html I know of one instance where loading the ehci_hcd driver instantly fixed a problem connecting to a camera with USB. The funny thing: It was a usb 1.1 machine, not USB 2.0 as mentioned in the knowledgebase article.
printing issues as well. This doesn't mean it's a bad product, but 9.1 is giving me fits in many areas in which 7.1, which I'm still running, 7.2, 7.3. 8.0. 8.1. 8.2 and 9.0 did not. This would suggest that it IS PROBLEMATIC but not necessarily so
OTOH: I have all sorts of things working out of the box in 9.1 that cost me weeks of struggle in 8.0 and 8.1, and NEVER worked at all in 7.2 or 7.3. 8.2 was the cleanest and sweetest SuSE of all time (IMHO) and even there I had to hunt around trying to get certain things to work. 9.1, in my test installs has been easier. I'm going to put it on my Sony Vaio when I get the chance, soon. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
On Tue, 2004-06-01 at 04:44, John Andersen wrote:
My point is that to assume some product is problematic based posts in the primary source for help is precisely NOT VALID.
It should be painfully obvious that those NOT having problems don't post here.
No USB issuse in my install of 9.1
What does it matter? Really. I see lots of posts about problems. Here and elsewhere. Thus I assume that while 90% of you may have perfect installs, there's a portion of us that are having freaky stuff (that never happened under any previous SuSE version, in my case) happen. Thus my impression that there's possibly something wrong with the update servers. Can we please get back to my original post. Why did one of the update sources give me a kernel that thought it was 2.6.5, much less not give me the sources? Isn't that the issue? Preston
On Tuesday 01 June 2004 06:52, Preston Crawford wrote:
Why did one of the update sources give me a kernel that thought it was 2.6.5, much less not give me the sources? Isn't that the issue?
Nope. The yast update applies patches to fix security issues, and not necessarily to bring you up to date with all associated packages. Further it is SuSE's LONG STANDING policy to apply the patches to the kernal (or other packages) without changing the version numbers so that dependencies do not crop up and break your system. If you want to upgrade your kernal, (as opposed to simply getting a patch RPM from yast update) you should go to the ftp site and download the latest stable kernels and the source RPMs and install them in paralle so that you always have a source tree that matches the kernal you are running. Not every installation needs source installed. Some packages, (Like VMware) do require the source tree because they custom compile replacements for certain modules, (unless of course it happens to run out of the box and does not need to compile). -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
On Tue, 2004-06-01 at 23:54, John Andersen wrote:
On Tuesday 01 June 2004 06:52, Preston Crawford wrote:
Why did one of the update sources give me a kernel that thought it was 2.6.5, much less not give me the sources? Isn't that the issue?
Nope. The yast update applies patches to fix security issues, and not necessarily to bring you up to date with all associated packages.
Further it is SuSE's LONG STANDING policy to apply the patches to the kernal (or other packages) without changing the version numbers so that dependencies do not crop up and break your system.
Well, whatever the case may be, I did a YOU update yesterday from a different server and got a mismatched kernel. I did one from the main server and so far everything is fine. Go figure. I don't know what to make of it. I pulled a USB 2.0 PCI card as well. Could have been that. I also switched out an IDE cable for good measure. Either way I definitely experienced that oddness where I had a different kernel number than source number. No idea why. Preston
On Wednesday 02 June 2004 07:54, John Andersen wrote:
On Tuesday 01 June 2004 06:52, Preston Crawford wrote:
Why did one of the update sources give me a kernel that thought it was 2.6.5, much less not give me the sources? Isn't that the issue?
Nope. The yast update applies patches to fix security issues, and not necessarily to bring you up to date with all associated packages.
Further it is SuSE's LONG STANDING policy to apply the patches to the kernal (or other packages) without changing the version numbers so that dependencies do not crop up and break your system.
I Have to totally disagree there i have on several occaisions applied kernel patches only to have the system sent haywire with kernel version and module versions not agreing with each other and taking a lot of sorting out it is my belief that if there is ANY UPDATE to the kernel then the entire thing should be updated the kernel the modules the sources everything and whats more it should be in /usr/src/linux-xxxxxxxx with an sym link to /usr/src/linux .
If you want to upgrade your kernal, (as opposed to simply getting a patch RPM from yast update) you should go to the ftp site and download the latest stable kernels and the source RPMs and install them in paralle so that you always have a source tree that matches the kernal you are running. Not every installation needs source installed.
Some packages, (Like VMware) do require the source tree because they custom compile replacements for certain modules, (unless of course it happens to run out of the box and does not need to compile).
-- _____________________________________ John Andersen
we are getting into the realms of unix the way things are going now , I have used Suse since 5.? but of late it is getting very fragmentory and heading towards red hat . We do not need all this rubbish of one breed puts x in /y and another breed puts x in /z/y it is all bad news and much as i am running 9.1 now it does have more than it´s fair share of problems that quite simply should not have been we are not the M$ Corp lets quit behaving like them and get it right ALL the time . -- G6NJR Pete otherwise known as "Quinton 11" A Linux Only area Happy bug hunting M$ clan Pete,,,,, :-)
About that ford dealership analogy a while back: Isn't it true that all Fords "do" suck? just kidding, couldn't resist that ot opportunity:))))
peter Nikolic wrote:
On Wednesday 02 June 2004 07:54, John Andersen wrote:
On Tuesday 01 June 2004 06:52, Preston Crawford wrote:
Why did one of the update sources give me a kernel that thought it was 2.6.5, much less not give me the sources? Isn't that the issue?
Nope. The yast update applies patches to fix security issues, and not necessarily to bring you up to date with all associated packages.
Further it is SuSE's LONG STANDING policy to apply the patches to the kernal (or other packages) without changing the version numbers so that dependencies do not crop up and break your system.
I Have to totally disagree there i have on several occaisions applied kernel patches only to have the system sent haywire with kernel version and module versions not agreing with each other and taking a lot of sorting out it is my belief that if there is ANY UPDATE to the kernel then the entire thing should be updated the kernel the modules the sources everything and whats more it should be in /usr/src/linux-xxxxxxxx with an sym link to /usr/src/linux .
One of the first things I do is to ditch the SuSE kernel, the differences between it and the kernel.org kernels are getting very marginal and there is always an easy way to get the same funtionality, 2.6 has brought them even closer. Sorry Pete! /usr/src/linux ?, can't find it on any of these 3 boxes, it was made redundant quite a while back.
If you want to upgrade your kernal, (as opposed to simply getting a patch RPM from yast update) you should go to the ftp site and download the latest stable kernels and the source RPMs and install them in paralle so that you always have a source tree that matches the kernal you are running. Not every installation needs source installed.
Some packages, (Like VMware) do require the source tree because they custom compile replacements for certain modules, (unless of course it happens to run out of the box and does not need to compile).
-- _____________________________________ John Andersen
we are getting into the realms of unix the way things are going now , I have used Suse since 5.? but of late it is getting very fragmentory and heading towards red hat .
We do not need all this rubbish of one breed puts x in /y and another breed puts x in /z/y it is all bad news and much as i am running 9.1 now it does have more than it´s fair share of problems that quite simply should not have been we are not the M$ Corp lets quit behaving like them and get it right ALL the time .
I couldn't agree more, there was a time long since dead when you could download or buy a binary for any distro, install it on any other and have it work. If anyone thinks M$ are a stray band of aliens, they need some mirrors to see that they are all earth people also and given the chance Linux (L$ ?) companies will do the same things under a different banner, yep, FREEDOM! which used to mean something quite different. I think we have already landed in the parallel universe of Linux schisms, the kernel is hanging in there as the only non-proprietary piece of software, even GNU apps from one distro or straight from GNU can't be guaranteed to play nicely with another distro. People will increasingly find that they can't buy a Linux application without much scrutiny. I'm not in favour of including one window manager or one application to achieve the same end, that does not weaken Linux, that's not fragmentation, it's the libraries and some header and configuration files. The dead hand of the grim reaper never can avoid dripping effluent wherever it moves, leaving the fittest to survive. I can hear in the distance the gathering chorus from M$/Sun and friends, yet to reach a crescendo and with believeable gusto and fact, "There is no one Linux", it's heading this way. Here endeth the sermon. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer Linux Only Shop.
On Tue, 2004-06-01 at 04:44, John Andersen wrote:
My point is that to assume some product is problematic based posts in the primary source for help is precisely NOT VALID.
It should be painfully obvious that those NOT having problems don't post here.
No USB issuse in my install of 9.1
Oh yeah, and gpilotd flat doesn't work. I'm sure I'm not exaggerating that. Preston
On Tuesday 01 June 2004 06:54, Preston Crawford wrote:
On Tue, 2004-06-01 at 04:44, John Andersen wrote:
My point is that to assume some product is problematic based posts in the primary source for help is precisely NOT VALID.
It should be painfully obvious that those NOT having problems don't post here.
No USB issuse in my install of 9.1
Oh yeah, and gpilotd flat doesn't work. I'm sure I'm not exaggerating that.
Preston
Ah, come on Preston, this isn't windows, its linux. When something does not work there are always helpfull messages spat out somewhere that can give clues on what is needed, or how it fails. Tail your logs. Fire it up from a shell. Press Ctrl-Alt-F10 to see what the log is showing as you plug it in. Google: gpilotd "2.6" and see how many hits you get. This has a long history of problems with the 2.6 kernal. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen
On Tuesday June 1 2004 7:44 am, John Andersen wrote: [snip]
It should be painfully obvious that those NOT having problems don't post here.
No USB issuse in my install of 9.1
I've seen some, John......card readers. NOT all will be "seen" correctly AFTER the card used during bootup has been pulled. The card reader that seem to have the least problem is SanDisk. Fred -- "The only secure Microsoft software is what's still shrink-wrapped in their warehouse..." (Forno)
participants (9)
-
Basil Chupin -
David Johanson -
Fred Miller -
Frederic Soulier -
John Andersen -
peter Nikolic -
plain -
Preston Crawford -
Sid Boyce