10.0 installation DVD - partitioning bug
On the 10.0 installation DVD, the partitioning tool (under repair) has a major and serious bug: there's no way to set the mount points because they are greyed out. I don't see how anything on my hard drive would be responsible for that. The partitions are listed correctly but can't be modified -- even if reformatted. Some questions then: 1. Is there anyone around with a 10.0 installation DVD who can confirm or disconfirm what I have found? (You get to the tool by choosing Other / Repair/Expert at the prompts after the license agreement.) 2. Does the problem still exist in 10.1? 3. Is there any easier route to setting the mount points than going into the rescue system and calling Yast from there? Its behavior when called that way is somewhat tricky. Paul
On Monday 18 September 2006 23:06, Paul Abrahams wrote:
1. Is there anyone around with a 10.0 installation DVD who can confirm or disconfirm what I have found? (You get to the tool by choosing Other / Repair/Expert at the prompts after the license agreement.)
i've installed 10.0 on no less than 4 machines and never seen this problem. i always do the installs in "expert" mode because long ago i tried the "automatic" mode and it wiped out my existing /home partition.
2. Does the problem still exist in 10.1?
i've not seen it, after installing 10.1 on 3 machines.
3. Is there any easier route to setting the mount points than going into the rescue system and calling Yast from there? Its behavior when called that way is somewhat tricky.
As Master Yoda most certainly would say, "downright weird, your system is. To the bottom of this, get you must." -- ----- stephan@s11n.net http://s11n.net "...pleasure is a grace and is not obedient to the commands of the will." -- Alan W. Watts
On Monday 18 September 2006 5:18 pm, stephan beal wrote:
i've installed 10.0 on no less than 4 machines and never seen this problem. i always do the installs in "expert" mode because long ago i tried the "automatic" mode and it wiped out my existing /home partition.
You're talking about an initial installation, though, I presume. What happens if you go into the partitioner via Repair? Any idea what would be a good reason for the mount points to be greyed out?
As Master Yoda most certainly would say, "downright weird, your system is. To the bottom of this, get you must."
Yes, my system is weird (and now weirder since I moved the partitions around to get the boot partition to the bottom of the drive). But the phenomenon I saw should only depend on the contents of the installation DVD, not on the contents of my hard drive. Paul
On 18/09/06 16:01, Paul Abrahams wrote:
<snip>
You're talking about an initial installation, though, I presume. What happens if you go into the partitioner via Repair?
Any idea what would be a good reason for the mount points to be greyed out?
If you're doing a repair, why on earth would you want to be mucking about with the mount points?
As Master Yoda most certainly would say, "downright weird, your system is. To the bottom of this, get you must."
Actually, I think Yoda would say, "To the bottom of this, you must get." :-)
On Monday 18 September 2006 9:59 pm, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
If you're doing a repair, why on earth would you want to be mucking about with the mount points?
Example: you've used a partition manager to move and reorder the disk partitions, so the mount points (which of course are reflected in /etc/fstab) have to be changed correspondingly since, e.g., the filesystem that used to be on /dev/hda6 has now moved to /dev/hda7. Paul
On Tue, 2006-09-19 at 00:47 -0400, Paul Abrahams wrote:
On Monday 18 September 2006 9:59 pm, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
If you're doing a repair, why on earth would you want to be mucking about with the mount points?
Example: you've used a partition manager to move and reorder the disk partitions, so the mount points (which of course are reflected in /etc/fstab) have to be changed correspondingly since, e.g., the filesystem that used to be on /dev/hda6 has now moved to /dev/hda7.
That is not 'repair' activity. Use the Yast disk partitioner icon. It lets you do this for all partitions. If you move /, chane this on the kernel command line and then run the disk partitioner. Not the disk repair. Your partitions are not broken. They are just moved.
Paul
-- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems AB Ramböll Sverige AB Kapellgränd 7 P.O. Box 4205 SE-102 65 Stockholm, Sweden Tel: Int +46 8-615 60 20 Fax: Int +46 8-31 42 23
On Tuesday 19 September 2006 00:47, Paul Abrahams wrote:
On Monday 18 September 2006 9:59 pm, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
If you're doing a repair, why on earth would you want to be mucking about with the mount points?
Example: you've used a partition manager to move and reorder the disk partitions, so the mount points (which of course are reflected in /etc/fstab) have to be changed correspondingly since, e.g., the filesystem that used to be on /dev/hda6 has now moved to /dev/hda7.
You plan the device/partition scheme changes in advance. Then you: a. backup the existing fstab (i.e. 'cp fstab fstab-orig') for safekeeping b. edit fstab to match your plan c. boot the repair system to implement your changes d. boot normally, since fstab matches the new environment Carl
On Monday 18 September 2006 20:59, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
Actually, I think Yoda would say, "To the bottom of this, you must get." :-) Nope... he would say, "Search for it with your feelings, and find it you will..." :)
-- Kind regards, M Harris <><
On Monday 18 September 2006 17:06, Paul Abrahams wrote:
On the 10.0 installation DVD, the partitioning tool (under repair) has a major and serious bug: there's no way to set the mount points because they are greyed out. I don't see how anything on my hard drive would be responsible for that. The partitions are listed correctly but can't be modified -- even if reformatted.
Paul, This is definitely not a "bug." You have to think of the repair system as being like a 'Live DVD'... a self-contained standalone bootable Linux, in this case specialized for problem solving, that is run on the same hardware but entirely separately from the Linux(es) installed on your hard drive(s). In fact, to 'set a mount point' simply means to create a line in the text file /etc/fstab defining which partitions are mounted to what directories... along with setting some other devices and parameters, too. You normally use the partitioning tool under the repair system to make adjustments/repairs to partitions while they are *not* mounted... meaning the contents are static; *not* part of a running system. What does this mean? The tool lets you work on drives and partitions... to "repair" them... so your regular installed Linux system can be made to boot and run again. However, if you introduce changes... resizing/deleting partitions... changing a partition's filesystem type... rearranging the order of partitions... rearranging the installed order of or adding/removing entire devices... adding or merging partitions, and so on... it is up to *you* to edit the contents of the installed system's /etc/fstab file to match whatever changes you have made. This is due to the fact that, when your regular system boots, it reads that file to 'discover' and initialize each part of the filesystem. In other words, this is *not* a "bug" but a clear case of PEBKAC... Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair. ;-) If I were you, given the fact that your installation DVD is quite handy, I'd backup my data, wipe the Linux partitions clean and do the installation again. During the process, I'd keep a close eye on the proposed partitioning scheme and fix any errors before allowing it to proceed.
3. Is there any easier route to setting the mount points than going into the rescue system and calling Yast from there?
Once you've confirmed which partitions need to be mounted, and where, you mount '/' to /mnt, cd to /mnt/etc/ and use a text editor to update the file 'fstab' so it matches the updated partitioning scheme. That way, the system can find where everything is. Another alternative would be to start a 'from scratch' installation, let it probe the system and discover the already installed Linux and offer you the opportunity to attempt an automated repair. One problem with this approach is you need to leave the broken system intact so the repair system can study it and find the problem(s). If you've manually 'hacked it up' in the interim trying to fix things yourself, there's a good chance the repair system will become confused and fail or make mistakes. The best approach is to not introduce radical changes to the system after it 'breaks' before running the automated repair tool. regards, Carl
On Tuesday 19 September 2006 12:08 am, Carl Hartung wrote:
In fact, to 'set a mount point' simply means to create a line in the text file /etc/fstab defining which partitions are mounted to what directories... along with setting some other devices and parameters, too.
You normally use the partitioning tool under the repair system to make adjustments/repairs to partitions while they are *not* mounted... meaning the contents are static; *not* part of a running system. What does this mean?
The tool lets you work on drives and partitions... to "repair" them... so your regular installed Linux system can be made to boot and run again. However, if you introduce changes... resizing/deleting partitions... changing a partition's filesystem type... rearranging the order of partitions... rearranging the installed order of or adding/removing entire devices... adding or merging partitions, and so on... it is up to *you* to edit the contents of the installed system's /etc/fstab file to match whatever changes you have made. This is due to the fact that, when your regular system boots, it reads that file to 'discover' and initialize each part of the filesystem.
So what particular repairs should the partition tool enable you to do? In my case, I had moved partitions around using Partition Manager, but leaving the contents the same. I could edit /etc/fstab to accommodate the changes (and have done so in the past), but since I didn't have a fully running system it would have been easier to use the partition tool if it did what I wanted. The greying out of the mount points, by the way, also caused this catch-22: the tool would not let me save its changes because there was no root partition, but I couldn't specify the root partition because I couldn't assign the "/" mount point to it. Paul
In other words, this is *not* a "bug" but a clear case of PEBKAC... Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair. ;-)
If I were you, given the fact that your installation DVD is quite handy, I'd backup my data, wipe the Linux partitions clean and do the installation again. During the process, I'd keep a close eye on the proposed partitioning scheme and fix any errors before allowing it to proceed.
3. Is there any easier route to setting the mount points than going into the rescue system and calling Yast from there?
Once you've confirmed which partitions need to be mounted, and where, you mount '/' to /mnt, cd to /mnt/etc/ and use a text editor to update the file 'fstab' so it matches the updated partitioning scheme. That way, the system can find where everything is.
Another alternative would be to start a 'from scratch' installation, let it probe the system and discover the already installed Linux and offer you the opportunity to attempt an automated repair. One problem with this approach is you need to leave the broken system intact so the repair system can study it and find the problem(s). If you've manually 'hacked it up' in the interim trying to fix things yourself, there's a good chance the repair system will become confused and fail or make mistakes. The best approach is to not introduce radical changes to the system after it 'breaks' before running the automated repair tool.
regards,
Carl
On Tuesday 19 September 2006 00:56, Paul Abrahams wrote:
So what particular repairs should the partition tool enable you to do? In my case, I had moved partitions around using Partition Manager, but leaving the contents the same. I could edit /etc/fstab to accommodate the changes (and have done so in the past), but since I didn't have a fully running system it would have been easier to use the partition tool if it did what I wanted.
The problem isn't that the partitioning tool is inadequate. You don't know about all the tools at your disposal: Check the Ctl+Alt+F[1-10] combinations while you're running either the installation or repair systems. Each supplies a number of running consoles. There's one which displays kernel messages in real time... helpful when troubleshooting cranky hardware. There's another which supplies a command line rescue-like environment... conveniently, you're already logged in as root... no password required. These consoles allow you to jump between command line and GUI environments, at will. You can read kernel messages, mount and umount devices, perform diagnostics, run commands and utilities... even *read and edit configuration files.* This is where a cursory familiarity with vi or vim comes in handy. ;-) Carl
So what particular repairs should the partition tool enable you to do? The repair tools are "manual" for experts that know what they are doing. They can be used when the system is smashed (won't boot, won't mount, etc) to get the system back to a state where it finally will boot, and partitions will mount etc. An example... the MBR gets clobbered (somehow related to M$, I spare you) and your machine will now not boot into GRUB and you can't bring up your
In my case, I had moved partitions around using Partition Manager, but leaving the contents the same. I could edit /etc/fstab to accommodate the changes (and have done so in the past), but since I didn't have a fully running system it would have been easier to use the partition tool if it did what I wanted. Not easier, and maybe not possible.
The greying out of the mount points, by the way, also caused this catch-22: the tool would not let me save its changes because there was no root partition, but I couldn't specify the root partition because I couldn't assign the "/" mount point to it. The tool is completely not necessary. Boot the system in single user mode (run level 1) or use the DVD expert tools (still run level 1), mount the root
On Monday 18 September 2006 23:56, Paul Abrahams wrote: linux box.... you can use the repair tools to rebuild the MBR. Another example.... your machine will boot but won't run properly because your /var partition (reiserfs) has a corrupted tree do to an unclean shutdown. You can use the tools to bring the machine up with all partitions unmounted so that you can reiserfsck --rebuild-tree on the var partition.... Most of the "repairs" are going to be manual corrections that will fix the reason why the system will not boot, or will not mount, or will not go into run level 3 etc. The repair tools are not meant to be used by newbies, non technical people, etc. You would probably do well to find a friend at your local LUG and get some help with the tools before your system is complete trash. Otherwise, I agree with the earlier post... backup what you can and reload. partition, and then edit /etc/fstab with vi. Its been said before, but maybe needs repeating, the mount points are nothing more or less than text entries in a text file called /etc/fstab. The repair tools will allow you to have a working system that will allow you to mount and edit the file in /etc that is broken; in this case fstab. The fstab file is one of the easiest of the config files to understand and edit. Fix the file manually with vi and then reboot your system. What's the problem? I am going to have to try this myself just for fun... but I suspect that the reason the entries are greyed out is that the partitions mount points SHOULD NOT BE CHANGED. It may be trying to help you. Usually once the system has been installed and running, changing the mount points of the partitions will cause the system to fail... unless you have done some very fancy resizing and reshuffling... in which case, you won't have any trouble at all manually modifying your fstab to match your fancy shuffling..... its tricky at best and not for newbies.... again, sounds like you will be better off reloading your system. And I agree... no bug here. -- Kind regards, M Harris <><
On Tuesday 19 September 2006 21:19, M Harris wrote: <snippage>
I am going to have to try this myself just for fun... but I suspect that the reason the entries are greyed out is that the partitions mount points SHOULD NOT BE CHANGED.
I'd say mount point editing is grayed out because the mount points can't be edited while the partition being worked on isn't mounted. ;-) I also suspect the same code stack on the DVD/CD is shared by both the installation and repair systems. Functions may be available in the installation system because it is specifically designed to assemble and install a working system, whereas the repair system environment may only support a subset of those functions, leaving the unsupported ones grayed out in that context. regards, Carl
On Tuesday 19 September 2006 9:35 pm, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Tuesday 19 September 2006 21:19, M Harris wrote: <snippage>
I am going to have to try this myself just for fun... but I suspect that the reason the entries are greyed out is that the partitions mount points SHOULD NOT BE CHANGED.
I'd say mount point editing is grayed out because the mount points can't be edited while the partition being worked on isn't mounted. ;-) I also suspect the same code stack on the DVD/CD is shared by both the installation and repair systems. Functions may be available in the installation system because it is specifically designed to assemble and install a working system, whereas the repair system environment may only support a subset of those functions, leaving the unsupported ones grayed out in that context.
Now that I have a working system, I went back to the repair option of the installation DVD and found the following, which really seems to confirm that there's a bug here: 1. If you simply enter the partition tool and exit immediately, attempting to change nothing, you get the message Yast needs a root partition to install. Assign the mount point "/" to a partition. And of course you can't do that because the mount points are greyed out. So there's no way to accomplish anything at all with the partition tool in the repair option. 2. If you select the edit option for an existing partition, the Help on the left says: On already existing partitions, you can change everything except the start and size of the partition. But in fact the only thing you can change is the filesystem ID, which you probably would not want to change. Or you can reformat the partition. Not only can you not change the mount point; you can't change the fstab options either. As a number of people have pointed out, there indeed are several other ways besides this tool to fix partitioning problems: entering the rescue system and using cfdisk and also editing /etc/fstab to adjust mount points; entering the rescue system and summoning up Yast from there; calling Yast directly from a working system; etc. My point is that the partitioning tool should do what is claimed for it, and that's true even if there are other alternatives to using it, so the existence of other alternatives for doing the same thing isn't really relevant to whether or not there's a bug in the partitioning tool. Paul
On Wednesday 20 September 2006 22:45, Paul Abrahams wrote:
Now that I have a working system, I went back to the repair option of the installation DVD and found the following, which really seems to confirm that there's a bug here:
1. If you simply enter the partition tool and exit immediately, attempting to change nothing, you get the message
Yast needs a root partition to install. Assign the mount point "/" to a partition.
??? Why are you insisting on trying to set a mount point from inside the partitioning tool when you're running it in an 'aborted installation>>repair mode' scenario??? When you use tools the wrong way and experience incongruent feedback, don't blame the tool. bye
On Thursday 21 September 2006 1:36 am, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Wednesday 20 September 2006 22:45, Paul Abrahams wrote:
Now that I have a working system, I went back to the repair option of the installation DVD and found the following, which really seems to confirm that there's a bug here:
1. If you simply enter the partition tool and exit immediately, attempting to change nothing, you get the message
Yast needs a root partition to install. Assign the mount point "/" to a partition.
??? Why are you insisting on trying to set a mount point from inside the partitioning tool when you're running it in an 'aborted installation>>repair mode' scenario???
At this point my concern is in determining whether there is a bug here and, if so, how to report it. My own problems have been solved, so they aren't relevant. The insistence on setting a mount point comes from the partition tool, not from me. The message I cited comes in the case where you don't make any changes at all -- which I tried since it should be the least stressful use of the tool. If the tool doesn't work in the null case, it's unlikely to work in any other case. Let's look at it another way, Carl. If the tool has any use at all, there must be something that you can do with it. So whatever that something is, just try it and see if you can get it done. My observation indicates that whatever you do, you'll be blocked from saving the results by the message above. And then there's the other issue of the fact that the help on the left (for editing a partition) says that you can change anything when in fact you cannot. Either the tool is wrong or the help is wrong. Paul
When you use tools the wrong way and experience incongruent feedback, don't blame the tool.
bye
participants (6)
-
Carl Hartung -
Darryl Gregorash -
M Harris -
Paul Abrahams -
Roger Oberholtzer -
stephan beal