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I have just installed SuSE on a friend's computer (IBM UDMA 13gb). This is the problem I have: the drive is identified in Linux as hdex, linux is on hde5, and lilo refuses to install on the MBR because it isn't hda. (Hda is the atapi cdrom on this computer). The Hd is partitioned like this 2gb win, 2 gb linux (thus safely under the 1024 cylinder limit), 128mb swap, 7gb win, the rest linux.. Is there a solution other than installing lilo on a floppy, which is the only thing i can get to work at the moment. i'm sure ther is... fx -- ______________________ Courtesy of SuSE Linux Kernel 2.2.16 (why worry?) I have just installed SuSE on a friend's computer (IBM UDMA 13gb). This is the problem I have: the drive is identified in Linux as hde<i>x</i>, linux is on hde5, and lilo refuses to install on the MBR because it isn't hda. (Hda is the atapi cdrom on this computer). The Hd is partitioned like this 2gb win, 2 gb linux (thus safely under the 1024 cylinder limit), 128mb swap, 7gb win, the rest linux.. Is there a solution other than installing lilo on a floppy, which is the only thing i can get to work at the moment. i'm sure ther is... fx -- ______________________ Courtesy of SuSE Linux Kernel 2.2.16 (why worry?)
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Hi fx, ---- fx Fraipont wrote:
I have just installed SuSE on a friend's computer (IBM UDMA 13gb). This is the problem I have: the drive is identified in Linux as hdex, linux is on hde5, and lilo refuses to install on the MBR because it isn't hda. (Hda is the atapi cdrom on this computer).
I do not know what you mean by "hdex", have you got more disks than related?? Do you know that Linux supports till 5 primary partitions?? More if extended.
The Hd is partitioned like this 2gb win, 2 gb linux (thus safely under the 1024 cylinder limit), 128mb swap, 7gb win, the rest linux..
Is there a solution other than installing lilo on a floppy, which is the only thing i can get to work at the moment. i'm sure ther is...
Best that you change disk+CD IDE bus connections, because i see you have not get any SCSI disks [aka sdax]. Also it is not needed for CD boot bios setup. Connect [IBM UDMA 13gb] disk as master on IDE1, and CD-Rom as master also on IDE2. This way the atapi cdrom will appear as hdb, while the hard disk will do as hda. I would not recommend you to put CD-Rom as slave on IDE1, best do not do it. If it is the windoze part as NTFS it would not harm. Also as of regular windoze, hd will always appear as c: , and cd will do as d:.
fx
Hi, also disable HTML posting on your Netscape Mailer, please. -- HTH Best regards, Eduardo Carriles [-- Better a smile than a flame --] (Long time SuSE-Linux [preferred distro] user). [-- Se me nota mucho? -- Notices me much?] [-- Have a lot of fun...] -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
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I do not know what you mean by "hdex", have you got more disks than related??
This is a system with an Abit be6 II card, with two onboard IDE connectors and two DISTINCT UDMA connectors. The installed drive is recognized as HDEx (meaning partitions HDE1,2,3 etc). So HDA is the cdrom on taht system. fx -- ______________________ Courtesy of SuSE Linux Kernel 2.2.16 (why worry?) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
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Hi fx, ---- fx Fraipont wrote:
I do not know what you mean by "hdex", have you got more disks than related??
This is a system with an Abit be6 II card, with two onboard IDE connectors and two DISTINCT UDMA connectors. The installed drive is recognized as HDEx (meaning partitions HDE1,2,3 etc).
Yea, can see problem at: http://bxboards.com/mainboard/slot1/BE62.0-large.jpg or "Abit BE6-2 Review @ bxboards.com" at: http://bxboards.com/mainboard/slot1/be6-ii.shtml also a link to Abit Manufacturer at: http://www.abit.com.tw or the product Abit's "Product - be6r2" at: http://www.abit.com.tw/english/product/be6r2.htm But anyway, i think you must act on bios cfg (with the CPU set-up software, Softmenu III). And try to convert your UDMA slot's as primary, if possible, leaving the other IDE's as secondary. Let me read some info, after a while i'll try to give you some answers, though!! =:`) But try yourself also, please and tell us afterwards. Do not forget that your objective must be to let see Linux your "IBM UDMA" as hda.
So HDA is the cdrom on taht system.
fx
-- HTH Best regards, Eduardo Carriles [-- Better a smile than a flame --] (Long time SuSE-Linux [preferred distro] user). [-- Se me nota mucho? -- Notices me much?] [-- Have a lot of fun...] -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
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fx Fraipont wrote:
I have just installed SuSE on a friend's computer (IBM UDMA 13gb). This is the problem I have: the drive is identified in Linux as hdex, linux is on hde5, and lilo refuses to install on the MBR because it isn't hda. (Hda is the atapi cdrom on this computer).
The Hd is partitioned like this 2gb win, 2 gb linux (thus safely under the 1024 cylinder limit), 128mb swap, 7gb win, the rest linux..
Is there a solution other than installing lilo on a floppy, which is the only thing i can get to work at the moment. i'm sure ther is...
fx
If you try and configure LILO via Yast you are right, it WILL NOT install on hde. However, if you edit the /etc/lilo.conf file directly, you can get round this. Look for the line which says boot=/dev/hda and change it to boot=/dev/hde . Then save the file and re-run /sbin/lilo and you should be right. -- Never trust a man in a suit -- cll -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
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If you try and configure LILO via Yast you are right, it WILL NOT install on hde. However, if you edit the /etc/lilo.conf file directly, you can get round this. Look for the line which says boot=/dev/hda and change it to boot=/dev/hde . Then save the file and re-run /sbin/lilo and you should be right.
That's what I tried next, thinking that I had discovered the Holy Grail. Alas, the LiLO prompt came up all right, choosing 2 (= boot Linux) booted linux, but choosing 1 (booting Windows) filled the screen with a nice list og 0 and I... I first tried, fdisk /mbr, to no avail, then tried to copy the backup copy of the fat /boot/boot.0.200 back to the MBR (as advised in the LILO Howto), and blew the fat altogether, and was left to reinstalling everything. So clearly, this does not work. fx -- ______________________ Courtesy of SuSE Linux Kernel 2.2.16 (why worry?) <blockquote TYPE=CITE>If you try and configure LILO via Yast you are right, it WILL NOT install on hde. However, if you edit the /etc/lilo.conf file directly, you can get round this. Look for the line which says boot=/dev/hda and change it to boot=/dev/hde . Then save the file and re-run /sbin/lilo and you should be right.</blockquote> That's what I tried next, thinking that I had discovered the Holy Grail. Alas, the LiLO prompt came up all right, choosing 2 (= boot Linux) booted linux, but choosing 1 (booting Windows) filled the screen with a nice list og 0 and I... I first tried, fdisk /mbr, to no avail, then tried to copy the backup copy of the fat /boot/boot.0.200 back to the MBR (as advised in the LILO Howto), and blew the fat altogether, and was left to reinstalling everything. So clearly, this does not work. fx -- ______________________ Courtesy of SuSE Linux Kernel 2.2.16 (why worry?)
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fx Fraipont wrote:
If you try and configure LILO via Yast you are right, it WILL NOT install on hde. However, if you edit the /etc/lilo.conf file directly, you can get round this. Look for the line which says boot=/dev/hda and change it to boot=/dev/hde
Did you try: boot=/dev/hda linear vga=normal read-only prompt timeout=100 # End LILO global Section # image = /boot/vmlinuz root = /dev/hda4 label = linux # other = /dev/hdb1 label = . map-drive = 0x80 to = 0x81 map-drive = 0x81 to = 0x80 table = /dev/hdb # other = /dev/hdd1 label = win98 map-drive = 0x80 to = 0x83 map-drive = 0x83 to = 0x80 table = /dev/hdd # other = /dev/hde1 label = win98b map-drive = 0x80 to = 0x84 map-drive = 0x84 to = 0x80 table = /dev/hde
. Then save the file and re-run /sbin/lilo and you should be right.
That's what I tried next, thinking that I had discovered the Holy Grail. Alas, the LiLO prompt came up all right, choosing 2 (= boot Linux) booted linux, but choosing 1 (booting Windows) filled the screen with a nice list og 0 and I... I first tried, fdisk /mbr, to no avail, then tried to copy the backup copy of the fat /boot/boot.0.200 back to the MBR (as advised in the LILO Howto), and blew the fat altogether, and was left to reinstalling everything.
So clearly, this does not work.
fx
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Did you try:
boot=/dev/hda linear vga=normal read-only prompt timeout=100 # End LILO global Section
The problem is that /dev/hda is the cdrom the UDMA drive is /dev/hde
# image = /boot/vmlinuz root = /dev/hda4 label = linux #
o my version is image = /boot/vmlinuz root = /dev/hde5 label = linux #
other = /dev/hdb1 label = . map-drive = 0x80 to = 0x81 map-drive = 0x81 to = 0x80 table = /dev/hdb # other = /dev/hdd1 label = win98 map-drive = 0x80 to = 0x83 map-drive = 0x83 to = 0x80 table = /dev/hdd
No HDb or d, so I do without these
# other = /dev/hde1 label = win98b map-drive = 0x80 to = 0x84 map-drive = 0x84 to = 0x80 table = /dev/hde
That's what I had, though I'm not quite sure about the "table=..." line.
.
Then save the file and re-run /sbin/lilo and you should be right.--
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Now give me a fail-proof (read: idiot-proof) method for returning the MBR to its original state and I will try. thanks fx -- ______________________ Courtesy of SuSE Linux Kernel 2.2.16 (why worry?) <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Did you try: boot=/dev/hda linear vga=normal read-only prompt timeout=100 # End LILO global Section </blockquote> The problem is that /dev/hda is the cdrom the UDMA drive is /dev/hde <blockquote TYPE=CITE># image = /boot/vmlinuz root = /dev/hda4 label = linux #</blockquote> so my version is image = /boot/vmlinuz root = /dev/hde5 label = linux # <blockquote TYPE=CITE>other = /dev/hdb1 label = . map-drive = 0x80 to = 0x81 map-drive = 0x81 to = 0x80 table = /dev/hdb # other = /dev/hdd1 label = win98 map-drive = 0x80 to = 0x83 map-drive = 0x83 to = 0x80 table = /dev/hdd </blockquote> No HDb or d, so I do without these <blockquote TYPE=CITE> # other = /dev/hde1 label = win98b map-drive = 0x80 to = 0x84 map-drive = 0x84 to = 0x80 table = /dev/hde </blockquote> That's what I had, though I'm not quite sure about the "table=..." line. <blockquote TYPE=CITE> > .
Then save the file and re-run /sbin/lilo and you should be right.-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com</blockquote> Now give me a fail-proof (read: idiot-proof) method for returning the MBR to its original state and I will try.
thanks fx -- ______________________ Courtesy of SuSE Linux Kernel 2.2.16 (why worry?)
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fx Fraipont wrote:
Did you try:
boot=/dev/hda linear vga=normal read-only prompt timeout=100 # End LILO global Section
The problem is that /dev/hda is the cdrom the UDMA drive is /dev/hde
Your right this is your problem. Why is it configured like this? You have 4 IDE ports. I saw the picture of your mb. Your first hard drive should be plugged into the port that would make it hda. Your MB manual or the silk screen on the MB should tell you which ide port is port 1 (1 relative). Thats where your first hard drive should be connected. Set your bios to auto detect. Boot a win98 floppy and do an fdisk /mbr, then boot from CD-2 and tell yast to boot from an exsisting operating system that lives on /dev/hda?. Then when your up (single-user) fix your lilo.conf and fstab and rerun lilo. Again I see no reason why your first drive is not hda.........
# image = /boot/vmlinuz root = /dev/hda4 label = linux #
so my version is image = /boot/vmlinuz root = /dev/hde5 label = linux #
other = /dev/hdb1 label = . map-drive = 0x80 to = 0x81 map-drive = 0x81 to = 0x80 table = /dev/hdb # other = /dev/hdd1 label = win98 map-drive = 0x80 to = 0x83 map-drive = 0x83 to = 0x80 table = /dev/hdd
No HDb or d, so I do without these
# other = /dev/hde1 label = win98b map-drive = 0x80 to = 0x84 map-drive = 0x84 to = 0x80 table = /dev/hde
That's what I had, though I'm not quite sure about the "table=..." line.
.
Then save the file and re-run /sbin/lilo and you should be right.-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com
Now give me a fail-proof (read: idiot-proof) method for returning the MBR to its original state and I will try.
thanks
fx
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The problem is that /dev/hda is the cdrom the UDMA drive is /dev/hde
Your right this is your problem. Why is it configured like this? You have 4 IDE ports. I saw the picture of your mb. Your first hard drive should be plugged into the port that would make it hda.
Well, the problem is that this is not my machine. Mine has an udma hd running linux, and Lilo is on the hda mbr, but I have a different mb that makes this possible. My friend is mainly a windows user (at the moment), and he has this Abit mb that provides two special connectors for UDMA 66. They require a special cable, with a different plug that won't fit into the ide0 connector. I guess it would be unfair to make him lose the (supposed) benefit of UDMA 66 in windows..... I just wanted to help him because he has been trying to install and use linux for about a year now, and has not been too successful, and I was looking for a nicer solution that putting lilo on fd0. fx -- ______________________ Courtesy of SuSE Linux Kernel 2.2.16 (why worry?) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
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Hi fx, After much reading and downloading your friend's MotherBoard PDF Manual at: ftp://ftp.abit.com.tw/pub/manual/english/be6-IIe.pdf I've arrived to the next: [CONCLUSIONS] 1- If you do not change parameters on the Award Bios, you won't get any results. 2- Linux sees the 4 IDE ports sequentially. 3- The only chance is to disable IDE1 and IDE2 while maintaining enabled IDE3 and IDE4. 4- First you must connect your ATAPI CD-ROM as Master to IDE4, and try it this way from windoze, without disabling any. If it does work (but not advised by Abit on the manual) then you can go and change Bios params. [IMPORTANT TIP] You need to get your [IBM UDMA 13gb] disk as _hda_ connecting it as _master_ to the IDE3 Ultra DMA/66 controller with your special cable. Also your ATAPI CD-ROM as Master to IDE4. [PROCEDURE] 1- Activate the Award CMOS Setup Utility pressing the _del_ key upon power- up 2- Select "Integrated Peripherals" Menu. 3- Disable both "Onboard IDE-1 Controller" and "Onboard IDE-2 Controller". 4- Mantain _enabled_ the "Ultra DMA-66 IDE Controller" 5- Maintain _enabled_ the "IDE HDD Block Mode" 6- Go to the "Standard CMOS Features" Setup Menu 7- Select "None" on your "IDE Primary Master / Slave" and "IDE Secondary Master / Slave". 8- Select "Press Enter" on your "IDE Primary Master" to gain access to the "IDE HDD Auto-Detection" section and press enter to do it on the sub- menu that appears. It will auto configure the IBM UDMA disk. 9- from the Boot Device selections you have the sequence: Floppy -> LS/ZIP -> HDD-0 -> SCSI -> CDROM -> HDD-1 -> HDD-2 -> HDD-3 -> LAN -> UDMA66. Choose the ones you need. 10- Save Bios params, exit and reboot your windoze. If all this works, you will get the same config on your windoze, with the added benefit of your high speed IBM UDMA full performance maintained. Also you will shot on the target center, obtaining _hda_ as you need. Pity that Award's Bios do not provide for changing selection order on IDE Controllers. [INFO] Abit mentions a party Linux center with full motherboards support, as they say at: http://www.gentus.com [IMPORTANT] Do not forget to annotate first all Bios params as you see them, and then and not first proceed to do changes. But as of today it seems to be down from my site, try and check it if you wish. - Who does what it can, can't be forced to do more -. =8`) -- HTH Best regards, Eduardo Carriles [-- Better a smile than a flame --] (Long time SuSE-Linux [preferred distro] user). [-- Se me nota mucho? -- Notices me much?] [-- Have a lot of fun...] -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
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Eduardo, you deserve an award AND a standing ovation (which I am giving you right now as I am typing this...) for taking the pains of gathering all that information. My friend came to take his computer back last night, and was already pretty satisfied to see a working Linux configuration, albeit launching Lilo from a floppy. I will forward your information, and if he's ready to invest some more effort into it, we'll try your setup, and I will report the results to the list. Thanks again fx Eduardo Carriles wrote:
Hi fx,
After much reading and downloading your friend's MotherBoard PDF Manual at: ftp://ftp.abit.com.tw/pub/manual/english/be6-IIe.pdf
I've arrived to the next:
[CONCLUSIONS] 1- If you do not change parameters on the Award Bios, you won't get any results. 2- Linux sees the 4 IDE ports sequentially. 3- The only chance is to disable IDE1 and IDE2 while maintaining enabled IDE3 and IDE4. 4- First you must connect your ATAPI CD-ROM as Master to IDE4, and try it this way from windoze, without disabling any. If it does work (but not advised by Abit on the manual) then you can go and change Bios params.
[IMPORTANT TIP] You need to get your [IBM UDMA 13gb] disk as _hda_ connecting it as _master_ to the IDE3 Ultra DMA/66 controller with your special cable. Also your ATAPI CD-ROM as Master to IDE4.
[PROCEDURE] 1- Activate the Award CMOS Setup Utility pressing the _del_ key upon power- up 2- Select "Integrated Peripherals" Menu. 3- Disable both "Onboard IDE-1 Controller" and "Onboard IDE-2 Controller". 4- Mantain _enabled_ the "Ultra DMA-66 IDE Controller" 5- Maintain _enabled_ the "IDE HDD Block Mode" 6- Go to the "Standard CMOS Features" Setup Menu 7- Select "None" on your "IDE Primary Master / Slave" and "IDE Secondary Master / Slave". 8- Select "Press Enter" on your "IDE Primary Master" to gain access to the "IDE HDD Auto-Detection" section and press enter to do it on the sub- menu that appears. It will auto configure the IBM UDMA disk. 9- from the Boot Device selections you have the sequence: Floppy -> LS/ZIP -> HDD-0 -> SCSI -> CDROM -> HDD-1 -> HDD-2 -> HDD-3 -> LAN -> UDMA66. Choose the ones you need. 10- Save Bios params, exit and reboot your windoze.
If all this works, you will get the same config on your windoze, with the added benefit of your high speed IBM UDMA full performance maintained.
Also you will shot on the target center, obtaining _hda_ as you need.
Pity that Award's Bios do not provide for changing selection order on IDE Controllers.
[INFO] Abit mentions a party Linux center with full motherboards support, as they say at: http://www.gentus.com
[IMPORTANT] Do not forget to annotate first all Bios params as you see them, and then and not first proceed to do changes.
But as of today it seems to be down from my site, try and check it if you wish.
- Who does what it can, can't be forced to do more -. =8`)
-- HTH
Best regards, Eduardo Carriles
[-- Better a smile than a flame --] (Long time SuSE-Linux [preferred distro] user). [-- Se me nota mucho? -- Notices me much?] [-- Have a lot of fun...]
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
-- ______________________ Courtesy of SuSE Linux Kernel 2.2.16 (why worry?) Eduardo, you deserve an award AND a standing ovation (which I am giving you right now as I am typing this...) for taking the pains of gathering all that information. My friend came to take his computer back last night, and was already pretty satisfied to see a working Linux configuration, albeit launching Lilo from a floppy. I will forward your information, and if he's ready to invest some more effort into it, we'll try your setup, and I will report the results to the list. Thanks again fx Eduardo Carriles wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Hi fx, After much reading and downloading your friend's MotherBoard PDF Manual at: ftp://ftp.abit.com.tw/pub/manual/english/be6-IIe.pdf I've arrived to the next: [CONCLUSIONS] 1- If you do not change parameters on the Award Bios, you won't get any results. 2- Linux sees the 4 IDE ports sequentially. 3- The only chance is to disable IDE1 and IDE2 while maintaining enabled IDE3 and IDE4. 4- First you must connect your ATAPI CD-ROM as Master to IDE4, and try it this way from windoze, without disabling any. If it does work (but not advised by Abit on the manual) then you can go and change Bios params. [IMPORTANT TIP] You need to get your [IBM UDMA 13gb] disk as _hda_ connecting it as _master_ to the IDE3 Ultra DMA/66 controller with your special cable. Also your ATAPI CD-ROM as Master to IDE4. [PROCEDURE] 1- Activate the Award CMOS Setup Utility pressing the _del_ key upon power- up 2- Select "Integrated Peripherals" Menu. 3- Disable both "Onboard IDE-1 Controller" and "Onboard IDE-2 Controller". 4- Mantain _enabled_ the "Ultra DMA-66 IDE Controller" 5- Maintain _enabled_ the "IDE HDD Block Mode" 6- Go to the "Standard CMOS Features" Setup Menu 7- Select "None" on your "IDE Primary Master / Slave" and "IDE Secondary Master / Slave". 8- Select "Press Enter" on your "IDE Primary Master" to gain access to the "IDE HDD Auto-Detection" section and press enter to do it on the ub- menu that appears. It will auto configure the IBM UDMA disk. 9- from the Boot Device selections you have the sequence: Floppy -> LS/ZIP -> HDD-0 -> SCSI -> CDROM -> HDD-1 -> HDD-2 -> HDD-3 -> LAN -> UDMA66. Choose the ones you need. 10- Save Bios params, exit and reboot your windoze. If all this works, you will get the same config on your windoze, with the added benefit of your high speed IBM UDMA full performance maintained. Also you will shot on the target center, obtaining _hda_ as you need. Pity that Award's Bios do not provide for changing selection order on IDE Controllers. [INFO] Abit mentions a party Linux center with full motherboards support, as they say at: http://www.gentus.com [IMPORTANT] Do not forget to annotate first all Bios params as you see them, and then and not first proceed to do changes. But as of today it seems to be down from my site, try and check it if you wish. - Who does what it can, can't be forced to do more -. =8`) -- HTH Best regards, Eduardo Carriles [-- Better a smile than a flame --] (Long time SuSE-Linux [preferred distro] user). [-- Se me nota mucho? -- Notices me much?] [-- Have a lot of fun...] -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq</blockquote> -- ______________________ Courtesy of SuSE Linux Kernel 2.2.16 (why worry?)
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Hi fx, ---- fx Fraipont wrote:
Eduardo, you deserve an award AND a standing ovation (which I am giving you right now as I am typing this...) for taking the pains of gathering all that information.
Pleased, delighted and thankful!! =`8) Not a pain at all, i enjoy it a lot.
My friend came to take his computer back last night, and was already pretty satisfied to see a working Linux configuration, albeit launching Lilo from a floppy. I will forward your information, and if he's ready to invest some more effort into it, we'll try your setup, and I will report the results to the list.
Will be very interesting, do it soon please. Tell Jean François not to worry, it is not a big deal and it can be easily undone. Speedy this Abit board, isn't it??
Thanks again
fx
-- HTH Best regards, Eduardo Carriles [-- Better a smile than a flame --] (Long time SuSE-Linux [preferred distro] user). [-- Se me nota mucho? -- Notices me much?] [-- Have a lot of fun...] -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
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dmarkh@cfl.rr.com
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eduardo.carriles@teleline.es
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fxf@penguinpowered.com
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muzh@ihug.co.nz