[opensuse] Will Beagle be Regd on 11.2 or will Strigi take its Place
Guys, Will we still have beagle on 11.2 or will strigi take it's place? Currently the kde4 help system isn't working on my box, because I got rid of beagle (or at least that's that I think is the problem with the help system). That prompted the question, "What index/search backend will 11.2 utilize for kde4 help/etc...?" Still beagle? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 28 October 2009 05:14:38 David C. Rankin wrote:
Will we still have beagle on 11.2 or will strigi take it's place? Currently the kde4 help system isn't working on my box, because I got rid of beagle (or at least that's that I think is the problem with the help system).
Beagle is not installed by default in 11.2 KDE installs. We wrote a beagle backend for KDE help in KDE 3 (10.x openSUSE's) but it was always clunky (no surprise there). It wasn't ported to KDE 4 so the default upstream htdig solution should still work - but as I said it's barely maintained.
That prompted the question, "What index/search backend will 11.2 utilize for kde4 help/etc...?" Still beagle?
Heh, no, it's still using 1990s technology - htdig. The KDE 4 desktop search[*] is shipped with 11.2 but is disabled by default (I heard faint complaints about a certain dog here on this list). khelpcenter does not use it at all - it would be indescribably cool if it did. a) We could ship search enabled out of the box, but only configured to index /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/<language>. Since the documentation there is a finite size, it's unlikely indexing it would cause a public outcry and ensuing owl cull. b) It would be possible to search for documentation anywhere: for example krunner, or directly from applications. c) more powerful help queries would be possible. I couldn't come up with a killer example OTOMH but for example, there are currently embedded keywords in our docbook help that could be searched separately to the full indexed text of the file Will [*] What is the KDE 4 desktop search? Nepowhatsit? Stroppi? Internally it's 2 technologies. Nepomuk is the general purpose metadata service in KDE 4. File indexing is one kind of metadata. Beagle took the opposite approach and concentrated on file content with a sprinkling of other metadata. Strigi refers to a set of high performance metadata extraction libraries, and is the Latin name for the owl family. A Nepomuk process controls the indexing, using the Strigi libraries. These extract file-type specific metadata and Nepomuk stores it in its databases. Since Nepomuk is modular, this means file indexing can be disabled independently of the Nepomuk semantic service. At its simplest, this provides desktop-wide tagging and rating of files, but can also describe non-file data like recently visited URLs, locations you've used your computer, people who mailed you a file, etc. In 11.2 this is all hidden behind the cryptic nepomuksearch:/ ioslave, so we disabled it by default, but expect to see it becoming more and more useful. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
PREFACE: Thank you for the incredible answer :) On Wednesday 28 October 2009 07:37:33 am Will Stephenson wrote:
The KDE 4 desktop search[*] is shipped with 11.2 but is disabled by default (I heard faint complaints about a certain dog here on this list).
Say it isn't so!
b) It would be possible to search for documentation anywhere: for example krunner, or directly from applications.
Good application help and reference is the most informative and most underutilized resource going -- generally. Take OpenOffice for example, by 2.3.x the help was mature and was so detailed that it allowed a user to make use of even the most subtle features of writer, calc, etc.. without relying on much else. In contrast, the current kde4 help system is primarily google or kde.org as something as basic as distribution lists in kmail are difficult or impossible to find. If there are any resources on the kde side of the house that can be focused on the help system, it would be a much better use of the resources than say "improving widgets" at the moment.
c) more powerful help queries would be possible. I couldn't come up with a killer example OTOMH but for example, there are currently embedded keywords in our docbook help that could be searched separately to the full indexed text of the file
I'll have to figure out how to do that. Because there are a lot of things in kde4 that I try to find basic information on (like whether a feature exists, and if so, what's it called and how do I use it?) and searching help or browsing through /usr/share/doc/packages usually turns up nothing more than a generic README. Examples: /usr/share/doc/packages/kuiviewer: COPYING COPYING.DOC README /usr/share/doc/packages/kuser: COPYING COPYING.DOC README /usr/share/doc/packages/kwalletmanager: AUTHORS COPYING COPYING.DOC README
Will
[*] What is the KDE 4 desktop search? Nepowhatsit? Stroppi?
Internally it's 2 technologies. Nepomuk is the general purpose metadata service in KDE 4. File indexing is one kind of metadata. Beagle took the opposite approach and concentrated on file content with a sprinkling of other metadata.
Strigi refers to a set of high performance metadata extraction libraries, and is the Latin name for the owl family.
A Nepomuk process controls the indexing, using the Strigi libraries. These extract file-type specific metadata and Nepomuk stores it in its databases. Since Nepomuk is modular, this means file indexing can be disabled independently of the Nepomuk semantic service. At its simplest, this provides desktop-wide tagging and rating of files, but can also describe non-file data like recently visited URLs, locations you've used your computer, people who mailed you a file, etc. In 11.2 this is all hidden behind the cryptic nepomuksearch:/ ioslave, so we disabled it by default, but expect to see it becoming more and more useful.
I'm sure somebody has a vision of how it will ultimately come together, but if you could toss in a suggestion or two about the help system, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for your detailed response. I understand where we are now :-) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 28 October 2009 18:08:15 David C. Rankin wrote:
PREFACE:
Thank you for the incredible answer :)
Slightly apropos this question, how do I run Strigi? In Personal Settings > Desktop Search > Basic Settings I get the error message "Strigi service failed to initialise, most likely due to an installation problem" when I check the Enable Strigi ... tick box. Yast tells me I have the following installed libstrigi0 0.7.0-1.2 strigi 0.7.0-1.2 Bob -- Registered Linux User #463880 FSFE Member #1300 GPG-FP: A6C1 457C 6DBA B13E 5524 F703 D12A FB79 926B 994E openSUSE 11.1, Kernel 2.6.27.37-0.1-default, KDE 4.3 Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz, 4GB DDR RAM, nVidia GeForce 9200GS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Bob Williams <linux@barrowhillfarm.org.uk> [10-30-09 15:38]:
Slightly apropos this question, how do I run Strigi?
In Personal Settings > Desktop Search > Basic Settings I get the error message
"Strigi service failed to initialise, most likely due to an installation problem"
when I check the Enable Strigi ... tick box.
Yast tells me I have the following installed
libstrigi0 0.7.0-1.2 strigi 0.7.0-1.2
I have the same problem and strigi-0.7.0-27.5.x86_64 libstrigi0-0.7.0-27.5.x86_64 libstrigi0-32bit-0.7.0-27.5.x86_64 -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 30. Oktober 2009 schrieb Bob Williams:
On Wednesday 28 October 2009 18:08:15 David C. Rankin wrote:
PREFACE:
Thank you for the incredible answer :)
Slightly apropos this question, how do I run Strigi? [...]
Today, I had the same problem on 11.1 and KDE 4.3. I solved it just a minute before I read your message: I used yast to remove "soprano-backend-redland" and installed "soprano- backend-sesame" instead (this triggered the installtion of java). Additionally, I removed the files "~/.kde4/share/config/nepomukserverrc", "~/.kde4/share/config/nepomukstrigirc" and the directory "~/.strigi". Then I disabled neopmuk and enabled it again, including strigi (See Step 5 of <http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1071376>). Now, there is the nepomuk system tray icon and it is indexing ATM. HTH Jan -- Every man must row with the oars he has. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Jan Ritzerfeld <suse@mailinglists.jan.ritzerfeld.net> [10-30-09 16:21]:
Today, I had the same problem on 11.1 and KDE 4.3. I solved it just a minute before I read your message: I used yast to remove "soprano-backend-redland" and installed "soprano- backend-sesame" instead (this triggered the installtion of java). Additionally, I removed the files "~/.kde4/share/config/nepomukserverrc", "~/.kde4/share/config/nepomukstrigirc" and the directory "~/.strigi". Then I disabled neopmuk and enabled it again, including strigi (See Step 5 of <http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1071376>). Now, there is the nepomuk system tray icon and it is indexing ATM.
following your steps, soprano-backend-sesame wants to install 49 additional devel packages :^(. Didn't do this part. disabled nepomuk removed ~/.kde4/share/config/nepomukserverrc ~/.kde4/share/config/nepomukstrigirc removed ~/.strigi restarted nepomuk, but strigi has same problem/message :^( tks -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 October 2009 21:04:01 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Jan Ritzerfeld <suse@mailinglists.jan.ritzerfeld.net> [10-30-09 16:21]:
Today, I had the same problem on 11.1 and KDE 4.3. I solved it just a minute before I read your message: I used yast to remove "soprano-backend-redland" and installed "soprano- backend-sesame" instead (this triggered the installtion of java). Additionally, I removed the files "~/.kde4/share/config/nepomukserverrc", "~/.kde4/share/config/nepomukstrigirc" and the directory "~/.strigi". Then I disabled neopmuk and enabled it again, including strigi (See Step 5 of <http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1071376>). Now, there is the nepomuk system tray icon and it is indexing ATM.
following your steps, soprano-backend-sesame wants to install 49 additional devel packages :^(. Didn't do this part.
OTOH it worked for me, just as Jan said, so I went ahead and now have Strigi indexing my system, and a Nepomuk system tray icon. Thanks Bob -- Registered Linux User #463880 FSFE Member #1300 GPG-FP: A6C1 457C 6DBA B13E 5524 F703 D12A FB79 926B 994E openSUSE 11.1, Kernel 2.6.27.37-0.1-default, KDE 4.3 Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz, 4GB DDR RAM, nVidia GeForce 9200GS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 30. Oktober 2009 schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
* Jan Ritzerfeld <suse@mailinglists.jan.ritzerfeld.net> [10-30-09 16:21]:
Today, I had the same problem on 11.1 and KDE 4.3. I solved it just a minute before I read your message: I used yast to remove "soprano-backend-redland" and installed "soprano- backend-sesame" instead (this triggered the installtion of java). Additionally, I removed the files "~/.kde4/share/config/nepomukserverrc", "~/.kde4/share/config/nepomukstrigirc" and the directory "~/.strigi". Then I disabled neopmuk and enabled it again, including strigi (See Step 5 of <http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1071376>). Now, there is the nepomuk system tray icon and it is indexing ATM.
following your steps, soprano-backend-sesame wants to install 49 additional devel packages :^(. Didn't do this part. [...]
Unfortunately, this is the most important part. But 49 additional packages seem a bit much to me. Are you sure you didn't try to install the soprano- backend-sesame-devel package? Gruß Jan -- Jury -- Twelve people who determine which client has the better lawyer. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Jan Ritzerfeld <suse@mailinglists.jan.ritzerfeld.net> [10-31-09 03:01]:
Am Freitag, 30. Oktober 2009 schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
following your steps, soprano-backend-sesame wants to install 49 additional devel packages :^(. Didn't do this part. [...]
Unfortunately, this is the most important part. But 49 additional packages seem a bit much to me. Are you sure you didn't try to install the soprano- backend-sesame-devel package?
11:10 wahoo:~ # zypper in soprano-backend-sesame Resolving package dependencies... The following NEW packages are going to be installed: antlr atk-devel cairo-devel fontconfig-devel freetype2-devel gcc-gij gcc-java gcc44-gij gcc44-java gjdoc glib2-devel gtk2-devel java-1_5_0-gcj-compat java-1_5_0-gcj-compat-devel libart_lgpl-devel libgcj-devel libgcj44 libgcj44-devel libgcj44-jar libgcj_bc44 libpciaccess0-devel libpixman-1-0-devel libpng-devel libstdc++44-devel libuuid-devel pango-devel soprano-backend-sesame xorg-x11-devel xorg-x11-fonts-devel xorg-x11-libICE-devel xorg-x11-libSM-devel xorg-x11-libX11-devel xorg-x11-libXau-devel xorg-x11-libXdmcp-devel xorg-x11-libXext-devel xorg-x11-libXfixes-devel xorg-x11-libXmu-devel xorg-x11-libXp-devel xorg-x11-libXpm-devel xorg-x11-libXprintUtil-devel xorg-x11-libXrender-devel xorg-x11-libXt-devel xorg-x11-libXv-devel xorg-x11-libfontenc-devel xorg-x11-libxcb-devel xorg-x11-libxkbfile-devel xorg-x11-proto-devel xorg-x11-util-devel xorg-x11-xtrans-devel zlib-devel 50 new packages to install. Overall download size: 41.0 MiB. After the operation, additional 164.9 MiB will be used. Continue? [y/n/?] (y): n :^) -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Samstag, 31. Oktober 2009 schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
* Jan Ritzerfeld <suse@mailinglists.jan.ritzerfeld.net> [10-31-09 03:01]: [...]
Unfortunately, this is the most important part. But 49 additional packages seem a bit much to me. Are you sure you didn't try to install the soprano- backend-sesame-devel package?
11:10 wahoo:~ # zypper in soprano-backend-sesame Resolving package dependencies...
The following NEW packages are going to be installed: antlr [...] gcc-gij gcc-java gcc44-gij gcc44-java gjdoc [...] java-1_5_0-gcj-compat java-1_5_0-gcj-compat-devel [...] [...] 50 new packages to install. [...]
Wow. I do *not* even have installed some of the packages now, after installing sesame! Do you have the NonOSS repository enabled? This is because for me, sesame installed sun's java[0] and not the gcc stuff one I see in your list. Gruß Jan [0] originally 1_5 but today I replaced it by 1_6: java-1_6_0-sun-1.6.0.u15-0.1.1 and java-1_6_0-sun-devel-1.6.0.u15-0.1.1 -- The most useful program will be continually improved until it is useless. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Jan Ritzerfeld <suse@mailinglists.jan.ritzerfeld.net> [11-01-09 11:16]:
Wow. I do *not* even have installed some of the packages now, after installing sesame!
Do you have the NonOSS repository enabled?
yes
This is because for me, sesame installed sun's java[0] and not the gcc stuff one I see in your list.
** java-1_6_0-sun-1.6.0.u15-1.12.x86_64 java-1_6_0-openjdk-1.6.0.0_b16-5.9.3.x86_64 ** default -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag, 1. November 2009 schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
* Jan Ritzerfeld <suse@mailinglists.jan.ritzerfeld.net> [11-01-09 11:16]: [...]
This is because for me, sesame installed sun's java[0] and not the gcc stuff one I see in your list.
** java-1_6_0-sun-1.6.0.u15-1.12.x86_64 java-1_6_0-openjdk-1.6.0.0_b16-5.9.3.x86_64
** default
Both are only the jre, the sesame package requires java-devel and, thus, a jdk. Try to install a jdk first (...-sun-devel or ...-openjdk-devel), then sesame. The gcc java stuff requires most of the devel packages in your list indirectly: gcc-java is the gcc java compiler and requires libgcj-devel. libgcj-devel requires libgcj44-devel and libgcj44-devel requires glibc- devel, gtk2-devel, zlib-devel, libart_lgpl-devel, and ... Gruß Jan -- The probability of failure is directly proportional to the anxiety of the programmer. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Jan Ritzerfeld <suse@mailinglists.jan.ritzerfeld.net> [11-01-09 12:43]:
Both are only the jre, the sesame package requires java-devel and, thus, a jdk. Try to install a jdk first (...-sun-devel or ...-openjdk-devel), then sesame.
The gcc java stuff requires most of the devel packages in your list indirectly: gcc-java is the gcc java compiler and requires libgcj-devel. libgcj-devel requires libgcj44-devel and libgcj44-devel requires glibc- devel, gtk2-devel, zlib-devel, libart_lgpl-devel, and ...
Is sesame required for strigi to work or just happenstance? I have installed java-1_6_0-sun-devel, removed soprano-backend-redland and installed soprano-backend-sesame and *no* additional packages were required :^). Strigi is now indexing :^) Is there a problem with the redland backend and is a bug report in order? tks, -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag, 1. November 2009 schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
[...] Is sesame required for strigi to work or just happenstance?
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=182607#c2
I have installed java-1_6_0-sun-devel, removed soprano-backend-redland and installed soprano-backend-sesame and *no* additional packages were required :^). Strigi is now indexing :^) [...]
Hehe. Sometimes the solver is not as smart as a human being. Gruß Jan -- What most people commonly call fate is mostly their own stupidities. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 November 2009 11:59:36 pm Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Is there a problem with the redland backend and is a bug report in order?
when i was using nepomuk/strigi a while ago (oS 11.0, i think), i first installed the redland backend. when i found it was eating up all my CPU cycles i searched thru openSUSE & KDE forums, finding that this was well known; the general recommendation was to avoid redland and use sesame instead. i think this is an upstream issue with redland, not openSUSE. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Bob Williams -
David C. Rankin -
Jan Ritzerfeld -
Patrick Shanahan -
phanisvara das -
Will Stephenson