Druid wrote:

hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah

hope you had lost all your data

I'm very surprised you can read...there weren't any pictures in my post, however, for your edification and delight, I maintain good backups and rsync several repositories just for situations like this. Go back to sucking your pacifier....

On 12/5/07, Richard Creighton wrote:

...

I feel like taking my favorite deity's name in vain so he would smite me off of the face of the earth because I couldn't be madder in hell than I am now at openSuSE's updater program.

I have a raid disk controller that is not directly supported by any kernel issued by openSuSE. Worse, there are kernels that will not compile the source of the controller card so when I get a kernel that will both compile and is compatible with the Rocket Raid Corporation rr174x controller that allows me to have a 2.5TB raid5 hardware array PLUS any software (MD) array(s) I want to define with a total of 9 drives on my system, I don't want things automatically screwed up by anyone or anything. I recently compiled 2.6.22.13-0.3-bigsmp and the driver for my controller assimilated itself nicely and I added the new kernel and modules to the appropriate directories and to GRUB menu.lst and rebooted and everything worked. As did the previous kernels (2 deep) which gives one a warm fuzzy feeling considering that from 10.2 through the 2nd released kernel of 10.3GM, I had to do without my hardware controller and to get stuff off of those drives, I had to physically reinstall a drive with 10.2 on it that allowed the controller to work.

Shortly after rebooting, the updater said it had a security patch on the new .13 kernel and (I know, I should know better than to trust anything by now), it was small, a patch and I said, go ahead, it isn't installing a new kernel, just requires a reboot to load it into memory after the update.....Yeah, right!....It not only ate my GRUB configuration files and replaced them, it also destroyed (by erasure) all of the other linux kernels in /boot, their syms AND all of the modules AND sources in /lib for those versions!!!!! Dammitalltohellanyway!!!!

It is about dammed time this automatic with no recourse destruction by update of erstwhile functioning systems stops and the updater and Yast updates give us the OPTION to KEEP copies of our current configuration. Somewhere back around 7-9, this was the default, and that was when drive space was expensive....now, there is no excuse to not at least make it an option at a very minimum. Thankfully the kernel did boot and was still functional with my controller or I would have weeks of work ahead of me rather than hours or perhaps days recompiling from source and reinstalling the backup sources and boot images.

Get with it openSuSE!!!! If my name was Bill Gates, I'd be spending a few million, maybe billion, on lawyers about now regardless of whether or not 'free software' is exempt from destroying peoples work or not. I am that mad that if I were indeed him, I'd go from richest man in the world to poorest, paying lawyers to induce management at openSuSE once and for all to opt for what is right rather than what is expedient.

Richard (a very pissed off dude right now) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Richard Creighton wrote:

Druid wrote:

...

hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah

hope you had lost all your data

I'm very surprised you can read...there weren't any pictures in my post, however, for your edification and delight, I maintain good backups and rsync several repositories just for situations like this. Go back to sucking your pacifier....

I don't know who this Druid prick is, but it would be nice if his list privileges were revoked. Perhaps someone at Novell can quietly make this happen. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Richard Creighton wrote:

Druid wrote:

...

hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah

hope you had lost all your data

I'm very surprised you can read...there weren't any pictures in my post, however, for your edification and delight, I maintain good backups and rsync several repositories just for situations like this. Go back to sucking your pacifier....

Never mind Marco (druid) Even his own mother doesn't trust him with a pacifier. That's why he's always such a self-centered brat. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Am Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2007 20:47:53 schrieb Randall R Schulz:

On Wednesday 05 December 2007 11:40, Druid wrote:

...

hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah

hope you had lost all your data

Wow. A new low.

Wasn't he involved in some other flames too? Greetings Michael

On Thursday 06 December 2007 16:04, Michael Skiba wrote:

...

...

hope you had lost all your data

Wow. A new low.

Wasn't he involved in some other flames too? no... I don't think so... ;-)

-- Kind regards, M Harris <>< -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Richard Creighton pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Wednesday 2007-12-05 at 14:37 -0500, Richard Creighton wrote:

...

...

...

Shortly after rebooting, the updater said it had a security patch on the new .13 kernel and (I know, I should know better than to trust anything by now), it was small, a patch and I said, go ahead, it isn't installing a new kernel, just requires a reboot to load it into memory after the update.....Yeah, right!.... Patch or no patch, a kernel patch replaces the whole kernel, even if only a small part of it actually changes.

...

I know it replaces the kernel, it has to, but I wasn't expecting it to REPLACE 2 earlier versions with the patched version which seems to have the same version number....yup....just checked, the version number did not change and the patch didn't mention anything about a version change

...

...

...

It not only ate my GRUB configuration files and replaced them, it also destroyed (by erasure) all of the other linux kernels in /boot, their syms AND all of the modules AND sources in /lib for those versions!!!!! Dammitalltohellanyway!!!! All the kernels with different version numbers that the one it was replacing? It should only replace the previous kernel, no more. If it removes other kernels, open a bugzilla.

...

It erased 2.6.22.12-0.1-bigsmp 2.6.22.9-0.4 bigsmp

...

and reinstalled 2.6.22.13-0.3-bigsmp (I assumed patched) which was already online unpatched with that version.

And, if you say you had compiled your own kernel, that one would not be touched - provided you compiled it with a different name. Furthermore, once you give the kernel a name (inside the make), the /lib/modules/ tree receives also a different name, and that one is not replaced:

1505880 Nov 22 22:21 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.12-0.1-cer <-- mine 1559220 Nov 12 04:13 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.12-0.1-cer.old <-- mine, old 1593968 Nov 7 17:09 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.12-0.1-default <-- theirs

Only "theirs" is replaced. Plus:

...

I start with a make mrproper but I am not enough of a kernel expert to answer the thousands of questions in the .config so I compile using a make O=<my source area> oldconfig and the only thing I have to do when done is to make O=<my source area> modules_install install

...

insmod /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/scsi/rr174x.ko depmod mkinitrd

/lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-cer/ <=== mine /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-default/ /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-debug/ /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-xen/ /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-xenpae/

Those I have named your kernel, prior to compile, mind! are not replaced by Yast. They don't belong to any rpm, thus they are not touched.

The sources, yes, that would be lost unless I copied them over. That is known.

But yes, for something as important as a kernel, it should ask. But I think you can go into YOU (never, ever, do an automatic update) and select the previous kernel to be maintained - but... no, as it has the same rpm name, the option is not given. You can't.

...

For many weeks, going on months, I studiously ignored the red triangle of the updater. I weakened this one time. I will NEVER trust the updater again. All updates had been done via the YAST online update where I had some control over what and when. Kinda defeats the purpose of the automatic updater, doesn't it? I have filed bugreports until I am tired of being ignored.

...

...

I live and breathe Linux, love SuSE

You're not the only one, been using SuSe linux since 1998. Another thing you can do is download the updated kernel from the update site[1] and install it yourself using rpm -i and it will install as another bootable kernel and give you a chance to make your module and test before removing any older kernel. [1] http://download.opensuse.org/update/10.3/rpm/i586/ -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

For many weeks, going on months, I studiously ignored the red triangle of the updater. I weakened this one time. I will NEVER trust the updater again. All updates had been done via the YAST online update where I had some control over what and when. Kinda defeats the purpose of the automatic updater, doesn't it? I have filed bugreports until I am tired of being ignored. It is obvious that OpenSuse ignores the vast majority of problem reports. There are great programmers working for them that have to concentrate on their tasks given by the hierarchy. The moment you

Richard Creighton wrote: publicly question the Novell hierarchy you are told to shut up. And for good reasons, Novell is evidently even more in bed with Microsoft then other financiers of Linux distributions.

One nice thing about being a retired college professor after retiring from being a programmer for many years, is that I now have a lot of time to annoy Novel senior managment by trying to write lucid letters to them in the hopes that writing business case (read dollars and cents) reasons why it is to their interests to pay attention to these little details.

I live and breathe Linux, love SuSE and invoke Gates' name in vain as often as I can, but when stuff like this happens due to poor management decisions being made, Linux, SuSE and Novell (where the money comes from) all suffer in the long run. We want the 'unwashed masses' that currently run MS to come and try out SuSE and abandon monopolistic offerings of Gates and Co., but when stuff like this is allowed to fester unchallenged, it is really unlikely that openSuSE, et al., we ever make that much of an impact on those we want most to switch. If you have to be an ex college professor that taught OS theory in order to have a chance to succeed with openSuSE, what chance does the average Windoze schmuck have at success? Only by great luck will he have any. The masses will be given a valid alternative if and when the financiers decide it is in their own interest. Unless people start speaking up together. But most prefer swallowing trinkets and compete in their subservience.

Thanks for your efforts trying to make a difference, Richard, however please don't let curtains and staged competition fool you. Kind regards Philippe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 12/5/07, Philippe Landau wrote:

Richard Creighton wrote:

...

For many weeks, going on months, I studiously ignored the red triangle of the updater. I weakened this one time. I will NEVER trust the updater again. All updates had been done via the YAST online update where I had some control over what and when. Kinda defeats the purpose of the automatic updater, doesn't it? I have filed bugreports until I am tired of being ignored.

It is obvious that OpenSuse ignores the vast majority of problem

Oh yes, pretty obvious. I have never seen a bug being closed. Tell you what, I know the novell workers passes all day looking at the screen of their computers and saying "ha! Ignored one more!", and there is a competition who ignores more problems per day... There are lots of distros out there. Pick your poison, if you think its too bad in here...

reports. There are great programmers working for them that have to concentrate on their tasks given by the hierarchy.

They do? In a company? You mean, they arte working in a company and they have to follow orders by their bosses who are paying them? Cmon, are you kidding? How can they let people do that? Have orders in a company, hah, what a joke. What will be next? They will want us to take bath everyday? To work? I thought we were in hippie-land, doing whatever anyone wants, in anarchism.

The moment you publicly question the Novell hierarchy you are told to shut up.

Ah, yes, its like the mafia... I know three guys who questioned that. They were sent drowned in a river with rocks tied to their legs... its terrible, the horror

And for good reasons, Novell is evidently even more in bed with Microsoft then other financiers of Linux distributions.

Oh mine, the trollage season started again? Amazing... Philippe, why dont you go troll elsewhere? Because you are, evidently, a fucking troll. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philippe Landau wrote:

It is obvious that OpenSuse ignores the vast majority of problem reports. There are great programmers working for them that have to concentrate on their tasks given by the hierarchy. The moment you publicly question the Novell hierarchy you are told to shut up.

And for good reasons, Novell is evidently even more in bed with Microsoft then other financiers of Linux distributions.

Why do people post this shit? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Richard Creighton wrote:

...

I feel like taking my favorite deity's name in vain so he would smite me off of the face of the earth because I couldn't be madder in hell than I am now at openSuSE's updater program.

I have a raid disk controller that is not directly supported by any kernel issued by openSuSE. Worse, there are kernels that will not ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ compile the source of the controller card so when I get a kernel that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Uh... NO kernel compiles the source of any code written for ANYTHING.

The kernel is a resource manager and process scheduler.

Compiling is done by a compiler, such as gcc, g++ or fort77. Um...let me re-phrase it then... while using the new kernel and the syms and internals and whatever support the kernel provides to the compilers,

Aaron Kulkis wrote: linkers and other such programs, the source code for the disk controller driver would fail to sucessfully compile but WITHOUT CHANGE to the source code or make files or .config, etc., if I booted and ran the compatible kernel, then the code would compile successfully and the resultant rr174x.ko could be insmod ed into the running kernel and the controller would function to allow access to the 2.5TB hardware raid 5 array. Now, I can't say the kernel compiled the driver, but the wrong kernel somehow prevented successful compilation. My guess is that the defective kernels had some internal links, symbols or pointers that a compiler, linker or loader or other support program depended on or that mismanaged a stack pointer or memory allocation that prevented successful compilation or insertion of a previously compiled driver module. ...but the other day, I was way too mad to say all of that and I still may be off base as to why one kernel would prevent sucessful compilation or even use of a driver where previous and subsequent kernels would allow success. All I know is that no updater program should remove my options to recover from whatever errors that cause such behavior by erasing all my functioning alternatives without at least the courtesy of telling me to go ))(*&*^ myself. I do appreciate your feedback however and hopefully your and the support of others in this forum to induce openSuSE to change the way such a critical program functions especially in the case of kernel replacement or patching. Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org