-----Original Message----- From: Ted Harding [mailto:Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 7:35 PM To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: RE: [SLE] WSJ slams MS On 07-Jun-01 Ben Rosenberg wrote:

When you get slammed by the WallStreet Journal..you've been slammed...all I can say is DAAAAAAAAAAAMN!

http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991862595554629527.html

Microsoft's Internet Explorer Smart Tags are something new and dangerous. They mean that the company that controls the Web browser is using that power to actually alter others' Web sites to its own advantage. Microsoft has a perfect right to sell services. But by using its dominant software to do so, it will be tilting the playing field and threatening editorial integrity.

I'm a little bit puzzled by this. Does the above (quoted from the final paragraph of the URL given) mean that someone who uses Smart Tags when accessing, say, my web page will alter the content of my file which is on my server for my web page? Or does it simply mean that the view -- on their own computer -- which that person obtains will be different from the view I intended them to get (without altering my original file)? If the latter, this reminds me very much of something which was going the rounds a few years ago, whose name I've now forgotten (let's call it "graffiti") which enabled people to _apparently_ write all over other people's web pages (or, as it was euphemistically put, "add commentaries". The principle was, that a user would install the "graffiti" software. When a web site was apparently accessed, "graffiti" would in fact access a remote "graffiti" site and look up the URL in a database. The purported web page would then be retrieved from the database instead of the true URL. But of course, by this time the version on the "graffiti" database had been scribbled all over by other users; and the user making the access could himself add scribblings to the version in the "graffiti" database. In effect, therefore, someone using "graffiti" would not in fact be accessing my real URL at all, but a modified "copy" stored on the "graffiti" system. And only users using "graffiti" would enjoy this privilege: other users would see my original. There was some concern at the time about misuse for libellous purposes. For instance, a University might have introductory pages about its courses for prospective students. "Graffiti" would allow disgruntled [ex-]students or other malicious persons to add comments like "this course is crap and Professor So-and-So who teaches it is incompetent", which is what would first be seen by prospective students who were also "graffiti" users. Are we talking about the same sort of thing with Smart Tags? Ted. The smart tags aren't supposed to affect your files on the server, its a modification in the users browser that causes him/her to see something (additional MS created links) other than the information you provided the user. Diane _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

-----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Drews [mailto:j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 11:49 PM To: spiderspell@yahoo.com Cc: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] WSJ slams MS On Thursday 07 June 2001 21:24, you wrote:

The smart tags aren't supposed to affect your files on the server, its a modification in the users browser that causes him/her to see something (additional MS created links) other than the information you provided the

So for instance, If I want to go to http://www.kde.org on an Xp equipped computer the smart tags could (or would) deflect me away? Also the BBC website has less than flattering thigs to say about Xp. -- Cheers, Jonathan You don't get "deflected" away. The smart tags are links that are shown to the user that are not actually on the web page. The user will still see all of the links that you put on your web page but the new MS links can either overwhelm the user with information, distract the user from your intended message by providing access to other information in conjunction to your structure of information on the web page. The other ugly aspect of the additional links is that the information will be biased by the simple fact that Microsoft is the one choosing the information for us. Diane _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

UCK !!! On Friday 08 June 2001 08:33 am, Steven Hatfield wrote:

Here is a link to what the smart tags looks like. How ugly!

<PUKE> http://www.scripting.com/images/smarttagsByScoble.gif </PUKE>

-Steven

On Friday 08 June 2001 01:05 am, SpiderSpell wrote:

...

-----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Drews [mailto:j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 11:49 PM To: spiderspell@yahoo.com Cc: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] WSJ slams MS

On Thursday 07 June 2001 21:24, you wrote:

...

The smart tags aren't supposed to affect your files on the server, its a modification in the users browser that causes him/her to see something (additional MS created links) other than the information you provided the

So for instance, If I want to go to http://www.kde.org on an Xp equipped computer the smart tags could (or would) deflect me away? Also the BBC website has less than flattering thigs to say about Xp.

-- Cheers,

Jonathan

You don't get "deflected" away. The smart tags are links that are shown to the user that are not actually on the web page. The user will still see all of the links that you put on your web page but the new MS links can either overwhelm the user with information, distract the user from your intended message by providing access to other information in conjunction to your structure of information on the web page. The other ugly aspect of the additional links is that the information will be biased by the simple fact that Microsoft is the one choosing the information for us.

Diane

_________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

I am not trying to burst anyone's bubble :(, but Walter Mossberg (reporter) is notorious for scathing reviews. Not that I am complaining :), but that is pretty much what he does day in and day out.... At least he had the gumption to report MSFT as he saw it. On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk wrote:

...

http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991862595554629527.html

Microsoft's Internet Explorer Smart Tags are something new and dangerous. They mean that the company that controls the Web browser is using that power to actually alter others' Web sites to its own advantage. Microsoft has a perfect right to sell services. But by using its dominant software to do so, it will be tilting the playing field and threatening editorial integrity.

As far as I understood....

I'm a little bit puzzled by this. Does the above (quoted from the final paragraph of the URL given) mean that someone who uses Smart Tags when accessing, say, my web page will alter the content of my file which is on my server for my web page?

No, it will not alter the content of the server's file.

Or does it simply mean that the view -- on their own computer -- which that person obtains will be different from the view I intended them to get (without altering my original file)?

Yes, imagine that you misspelled a word in MS Word, and the red underline comes up.... (pretty sure everyone has seen this ??) At the latest beta a colored tilde is supposed to highlight a word and when your mouse is over the target it will open a menu with a pointed website, which the clickeree can then choose. Imagine being on Ford's website and being pointed to a Jeep site if they have 'mud' on their site (ok, that is lame... but could not think of anything else :) Tony -- Tony Zafiropoulos CTiTEK, Inc. Supporting Linux one system at a time Ph: 314-726-5080 x101 Fax: 314-726-5085 Cel: 314-504-3974 tonyz@ctitek.com "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character give him power." -- Abraham Lincoln

On Thursday 07 June 2001 16:34, Ted Harding wrote:

I'm a little bit puzzled by this. Does the above (quoted from the final paragraph of the URL given) mean that someone who uses Smart Tags when accessing, say, my web page will alter the content of my file which is on my server for my web page?

Or does it simply mean that the view -- on their own computer -- which that person obtains will be different from the view I intended them to get (without altering my original file)?

It's the latter -- they'll see links you don't have without altering the original file (although I understand the link will look different than a standard hyperlink). As was mentioned on slashdot this leads to another potential problem -- what if the smart tag points to a broken link? The clueless user will get mad at you for having broken links on your site, and you have no idea they're there and no way of fixing them. As a side note -- the articles say you can include a meta tag in your page to disable smart linking. The first thing that I did was go to the MS website to find out what that tag was. Funny enough, although preview copies that use smart linking are available, I can't find a single piece of information about how to disable it from my side. Cheers, Chris. -- Chris Clarke security@cfourconsulting.com http://cfourconsulting.com

I think I remember what your talking about. It was like "sticky" notes for webpages. It was originally touted as a way for user to comment on corporate or distributors webpages as a way to rate it without having it filtered. It died a horrible death if I remember Curtis On Thursday 07 June 2001 06:34 pm, Ted Harding wrote:

On 07-Jun-01 Ben Rosenberg wrote:

...

When you get slammed by the WallStreet Journal..you've been slammed...all I can say is DAAAAAAAAAAAMN!

http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991862595554629527.html

Microsoft's Internet Explorer Smart Tags are something new and dangerous. They mean that the company that controls the Web browser is using that power to actually alter others' Web sites to its own advantage. Microsoft has a perfect right to sell services. But by using its dominant software to do so, it will be tilting the playing field and threatening editorial integrity.

I'm a little bit puzzled by this. Does the above (quoted from the final paragraph of the URL given) mean that someone who uses Smart Tags when accessing, say, my web page will alter the content of my file which is on my server for my web page?

Or does it simply mean that the view -- on their own computer -- which that person obtains will be different from the view I intended them to get (without altering my original file)?

If the latter, this reminds me very much of something which was going the rounds a few years ago, whose name I've now forgotten (let's call it "graffiti") which enabled people to _apparently_ write all over other people's web pages (or, as it was euphemistically put, "add commentaries".

The principle was, that a user would install the "graffiti" software. When a web site was apparently accessed, "graffiti" would in fact access a remote "graffiti" site and look up the URL in a database. The purported web page would then be retrieved from the database instead of the true URL. But of course, by this time the version on the "graffiti" database had been scribbled all over by other users; and the user making the access could himself add scribblings to the version in the "graffiti" database.

In effect, therefore, someone using "graffiti" would not in fact be accessing my real URL at all, but a modified "copy" stored on the "graffiti" system. And only users using "graffiti" would enjoy this privilege: other users would see my original.

There was some concern at the time about misuse for libellous purposes. For instance, a University might have introductory pages about its courses for prospective students. "Graffiti" would allow disgruntled [ex-]students or other malicious persons to add comments like "this course is crap and Professor So-and-So who teaches it is incompetent", which is what would first be seen by prospective students who were also "graffiti" users.

Are we talking about the same sort of thing with Smart Tags?

Ted.

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