jdd wrote:

Dan Goodman a écrit :

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so no, Kde is not mandatory (even if I like and use mostly kde 3.5)

But it is the "preferred" and recommended interface of openSuSE, is it not?

no, it is not. Many people think Gnome is the prefered WM (alas)

And I (sincerely) wish the KDE road were easier, as I still like what is best about KDE3 the best. jdd And since I might not have time to find where someone else set some stringent conditions under which he would return to the KDE fold, I will say that I still don't know what changes might induce me to install KDE at my next upgrade. Also, although I have issues with the way KDE4 is being rolled out, I do want to say that, as disturbing as it might be to have 3 modified to fit with 4, if the hooks are primarily to enable better interoperability between the two versions and between them and other desktops, then I can understand why this would occur, and would personally consider it justified. But I also agree that there should be a version that remains unchanged, from 3, that users can use for as long as they want. But for those who know more about this than I, are the changes to 3 for 4 more of the nature of better compatibility, or more of an attempt to introduce the visionary new things of 4 into the 3 codebase?

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As in, if I observe a lot of things I think are wrong, I shouldn't list them, because it won't change anything, and anyway it will be too long.

what you should do, then is open a wiki page with the list, and checkboxes to note what is made better or worst as time passes, with dates

so only a link have to be done here

Wish I had time to do so. In fact, I am sort of starting by digging in a bit deeper here, on this issue, because I want to get more involved, and have the background (and maybe will have the time) to get more involved in the openSuSE community in a more contributive way. At first the scope was to do this for "some" aspect of open source. Now it has progressed to where I know it will probably be in the openSuSE community, with only Ubuntu (primarily for its education tilt) a possible contender for my interest. And KDE falls in line with that, because KDE seems to be doing more with education as well. But a lot of what I might be able to do might involve interactions between the kernel and its various "shells" and apps. Also, I am interested in trying to find a configuration that is both enterprise security level ready, and also can easily support things like being a "school or university in a box" (think "one laptop [network?] per geek [family]", where some of the family might be new to computers and others might be intelligent non-computer people who are learning to work better outside the confines of what I think of as "a Redmond state of mind." So I doubt I will be originating such a wiki, at least now. But I would certainly participate in some sort of tracking and feedback mechanism for the KDE desktop, at a different layer than a bugzilla type system. Although, if I were going to do this, I might think bugzilla to be a better feature tracker than a wiki, because it is a tool more directly focused on this type of information evolution. Sorry, didn't mean to say so much, but trying to let people here understand where I am coming from. In particular, I do not think that KDE is hopelessly lost; I sincerely wish that there was a peaceful, harmonious way for the main contributors to split into a team for a simple, transitional KDE3 system, and another team committed to building, in parallel, an eye-candy and paradigm shifting layer on top of that. For me, that would be the best of all worlds. Also, I do not think that Novell has become an "evil empire, junior division" because of its business relationship to Redmond, and I think that blaming Novell for not reeling in the KDE situation ignores a basic problem. What leverage does Novell truly have over Aaron Siego? (Now, if they waved development $ in exchange for a less grandiose and lest radically changed KDE4 plus a lay on top for Plasmoids, Oxygen, "wavy gravy" window closes, and yes, meaningful shifts towards a semantic desktop, perhaps...then maybe they could.) And if "somebody died and left me (let me be) king", that is pretty much what I personally would do. (And maybe make the odd number versions be the "KDE4-plus" version of its "KDE4-base" even-numbered version, a la the kernel numbering scheme.) But thanks for your suggestion, jdd, it has gotten me thinking more about what I really want, given what the world really is today, and how I might fit into it in this context. --dan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org