[opensuse] cleaning keyboard
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it? -- Bob Rea www.petard.us www.petard.us/blog America, it was a wonderful country Til they took it private and made it a theme park of itself
On 2020-11-23 2:25 p.m., Bob Rea wrote:
d some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
Years ago, when I was a computer tech, I used hot water, followed by blowing out the water with compressed nitrogen . You can also use alcohol to remove the water.
On 11/23/20 1:37 PM, James Knott wrote:
On 2020-11-23 2:25 p.m., Bob Rea wrote:
d some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
Years ago, when I was a computer tech, I used hot water, followed by blowing out the water with compressed nitrogen . You can also use alcohol to remove the water.
Hehe... I still have a couple of "key-pullers" just for this type problem. (of course they have little use except for the old mechanical style keyboards). Depending on how expensive the keyboard is, if all else fails, run it through a dish-washer (key-side down at 45 deg angle, no temp boost, no heated dry), remove and dry thoroughly. If the PCB behind it is of good quality, it will survive. There are NO GUARANTEES. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 20:10 -0600, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/23/20 1:37 PM, James Knott wrote:
On 2020-11-23 2:25 p.m., Bob Rea wrote:
d some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
Years ago, when I was a computer tech, I used hot water, followed by blowing out the water with compressed nitrogen . You can also use alcohol to remove the water.
Hehe... I still have a couple of "key-pullers" just for this type problem. (of course they have little use except for the old mechanical style keyboards).
Depending on how expensive the keyboard is, if all else fails, run it through a dish-washer (key-side down at 45 deg angle, no temp boost, no heated dry), remove and dry thoroughly. If the PCB behind it is of good quality, it will survive. There are NO GUARANTEES.
First I heard of such a tool. I have always carefully used by thin blade on my ever present pen knife. Only once ruined a keyboard but that was from the inside getting accidently wet not from the prying. The tricky part is with those L shaped ENTER keys which have two springs at right angles to each other. Makes reattaching complicated and worse if you do that one last after the surrounding keys are replaced. -- Carl Spitzer ___ _ / (_) | | () o | __, ,_ | | /\ _ _|_ __ _ ,_ | / | / | |/ / \|/ \_| | / / _|/ / | \___/\_/|_/ |_/|__/ /(__/|__/ |_/|_/ /_/ |__/ |_/ /| /| \| \| ____________________________________________________________ Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more Death Row Inmates Scam State Pandemic Benefits http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fbdbeee3fc73eed262bst01duc1 Pennsylvania, Nevada Certify Vote Results http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fbdbeee235a03eed262bst01duc2 Flournoy May Not Be a Shoo-In for Defense After All http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fbdbeee42ae33eed262bst01duc3
On 11/24/20 8:19 PM, Carl Spitzer {L Juno} wrote:
First I heard of such a tool. I have always carefully used by thin blade on my ever present pen knife. Only once ruined a keyboard but that was from the inside getting accidently wet not from the prying. The tricky part is with those L shaped ENTER keys which have two springs at right angles to each other. Makes reattaching complicated and worse if you do that one last after the surrounding keys are replaced.
Key pullers were handy. Basically a short handle like a spatula with two wires that come out about 4 inches and each (hardened steel) wire goes from the handle and makes a square-ended loop. With the two wires side-by-side from the handle, you simply spread them apart slightly so they slipped over the key. They would slide back together under the key allowing you to simply lift up to pull the key out. Neat little things. I know I have at least two in the rummage parts boxes. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 25/11/2020 05.23, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/24/20 8:19 PM, Carl Spitzer {L Juno} wrote:
First I heard of such a tool. I have always carefully used by thin blade on my ever present pen knife. Only once ruined a keyboard but that was from the inside getting accidently wet not from the prying. The tricky part is with those L shaped ENTER keys which have two springs at right angles to each other. Makes reattaching complicated and worse if you do that one last after the surrounding keys are replaced.
Key pullers were handy.
Basically a short handle like a spatula with two wires that come out about 4 inches and each (hardened steel) wire goes from the handle and makes a square-ended loop. With the two wires side-by-side from the handle, you simply spread them apart slightly so they slipped over the key. They would slide back together under the key allowing you to simply lift up to pull the key out.
Neat little things. I know I have at least two in the rummage parts boxes.
This? <https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Mechanical-Keyboard-Removing-keyboard/dp/B075CZCTXM> -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 11/25/20 6:17 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 25/11/2020 05.23, David C. Rankin wrote:
Key pullers were handy.
Basically a short handle like a spatula with two wires that come out about 4 inches and each (hardened steel) wire goes from the handle and makes a square-ended loop. With the two wires side-by-side from the handle, you simply spread them apart slightly so they slipped over the key. They would slide back together under the key allowing you to simply lift up to pull the key out.
Neat little things. I know I have at least two in the rummage parts boxes.
This?
<https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Mechanical-Keyboard-Removing-keyboard/dp/B075CZCTXM>
THAT'S IT!!! Man they have gotten fancy. Mine just have the wire-hoop -- none of the fancy attachment on the other end. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 28/11/2020 09.38, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/25/20 6:17 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 25/11/2020 05.23, David C. Rankin wrote:
Key pullers were handy.
Basically a short handle like a spatula with two wires that come out about 4 inches and each (hardened steel) wire goes from the handle and makes a square-ended loop. With the two wires side-by-side from the handle, you simply spread them apart slightly so they slipped over the key. They would slide back together under the key allowing you to simply lift up to pull the key out.
Neat little things. I know I have at least two in the rummage parts boxes.
This?
<https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Mechanical-Keyboard-Removing-keyboard/dp/B075CZCTXM>
THAT'S IT!!!
Man they have gotten fancy. Mine just have the wire-hoop -- none of the fancy attachment on the other end.
Well, tank you a lot for making us aware of the existence of that gadget - I truly did not know about it :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 11/28/20 7:29 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote: >> THAT'S IT!!! >> >> Man they have gotten fancy. Mine just have the wire-hoop -- none of the >> fancy attachment on the other end. > Well, tank you a lot for making us aware of the existence of that gadget > - I truly did not know about it :-) > Your welcome :) I think the first one I got came along with the NMB Mechanical-click keyboard I bought in 1990(91?). I still have that puller -- and I still have the keyboard -- which is a dream to use, perfect key-pressure, subtle but pleasant tone, and no windows key! It actually came with an adapter from the 1/2 inch-size connector down to the PS2 type -- so it still finds use today :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 23.11.20 20:37, James Knott wrote:
On 2020-11-23 2:25 p.m., Bob Rea wrote:
d some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
Years ago, when I was a computer tech, I used hot water, followed by blowing out the water with compressed nitrogen . You can also use alcohol to remove the water.
Or rinse with distilled water and then let the keyboard dry. Josef -- SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer
On 23/11/2020 20.25, Bob Rea wrote:
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
A damp cloth. If that is not enough, you have to disassemble and clean inside. With water. Watch out, there are several layers and they may keep a drop of water inside and never work again. Happened to me with one. I would not use hot water, just warm. Hot water may change the shape of thermoplastics. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.1 (Legolas))
In data lunedì 23 novembre 2020 20:25:06 CET, Bob Rea ha scritto:
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it? -- Bob Rea
Depends on the quantity. With large quantity and mechanic keyboard you may uses hot water and dish washer to dissolve the sugar and liquify the fat. Then yes alcohol will help to make the water go away. But with plastic contacts it will be more difficult, the water may stay for long under the plastic skin. You may consider to open and to clean the plastic foil between keys and kontacts separately. This would be my strategy. Bob, do you have by chance a brother called Mens? (in reference to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gShIlz2If40) SCNR ;-) Hope you have time because it all boils down to let it dry well afterwards. But fat is non polar. You can easily dissolve the sugar with warm water but not the fat of cocoa butter which would then solidify again once the keyboard dries out. There the dish washer soap helps to hold it in solution.
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 14:25:06 -0500 Bob Rea <petard@petard.us> wrote:
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
At my 'eating and drinking' machine I have a Logitech Washable Keyboard for exactly this reason. The Washable has been been around for a while, retail about $60+ I think, but I found a new one on eBay a couple years or so ago for ~$25. Wired USB, no wireless/bluetooth functions. Ralph
Le 23/11/2020 à 23:15, Ralph a écrit :
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 14:25:06 -0500 Bob Rea <petard@petard.us> wrote:
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
At my 'eating and drinking' machine I have a Logitech Washable Keyboard for exactly this reason. The Washable has been been around for a
for similar reason, I use an external keyboard, with my main (in fact fixed) laptop, much easier to throw away if unusable :-) I could fix very recently *one* key of a laptop keyboard that was staying on (right arrow). So sort of sugar was on the inner side of the plastic key. I had to remove gently the part (very fragile!) and use a microwave sound cleaner to fix it. Succeed, but much thrill. before I had simply to let out this key and press directly the soft dome under it jdd -- http://dodin.org
On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 14:25 -0500, Bob Rea wrote:
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
After turning off the computer disconnect the keyboard and carefully remove the keys and clean with Q-Tip and rubbing Alcohol. If its a laptop then look on youtube and remove the keyboard as though to replace it then clean it and let dry before reconnecting. I have done this cleaning for hand oils as i have oily skin. Hot Chocolate is a new one. -- Carl Spitzer ___ _ / (_) | | () o | __, ,_ | | /\ _ _|_ __ _ ,_ | / | / | |/ / \|/ \_| | / / _|/ / | \___/\_/|_/ |_/|__/ /(__/|__/ |_/|_/ /_/ |__/ |_/ /| /| \| \| ____________________________________________________________ Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more Death Row Inmates Scam State Pandemic Benefits http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fbdbd3f2548e3d3e1241st01duc1 Pennsylvania, Nevada Certify Vote Results http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fbdbd3f45fd23d3e1241st01duc2 Flournoy May Not Be a Shoo-In for Defense After All http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5fbdbd3f66b713d3e1241st01duc3
Am 23.11.20 um 20:25 schrieb Bob Rea:
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
Be careful when disassembling, of course before, disconnect. if its a very old (high quality) keyboard (as mine) from the 1980's (without windows-keys ;-)) (cherry, gold-plated) it could be that there is a thin plastic coatings over the whole board (except where the keys are) to dry after cleaning with wather or alcohol, check that you lift this a little up, and put some small things (toothpicks) between, that huminity could go out. i used a hairdryer (nearly cold) let the toothpicks stick inside a half day or a day, to make sure everything is dry. then assemble it. simoN -- www.becherer.de
On 23/11/2020 14:25, Bob Rea wrote:
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
At university we cleaned circuitry with tetraetyl chloride. I don't know a source of it here. If I borked my keyboard beyond a wipe-down I'd throw it out. It's a great IBM keyboard but I got it for C$4.95 at a thrift store. That was a while ago. The same thrift store regularly has a good selection of keyboards and occasionally a worth while screen. I'm running a LG Flatron wide screen (sadly not wide enough, only 16" x 10" running 1280x1024 since 1920x1080 doesn't let me use some fonts). Mortality? People upgrading? Dunno. But there's good stuff occasionally. Look guys, it's only hardware. You've got to treat it like toilet paper. It gets soiled, then throw it out. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
On 25/11/2020 13.37, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 23/11/2020 14:25, Bob Rea wrote:
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
At university we cleaned circuitry with tetraetyl chloride. I don't know a source of it here.
If I borked my keyboard beyond a wipe-down I'd throw it out. It's a great IBM keyboard but I got it for C$4.95 at a thrift store. That was a while ago. The same thrift store regularly has a good selection of keyboards and occasionally a worth while screen. I'm running a LG Flatron wide screen (sadly not wide enough, only 16" x 10" running 1280x1024 since 1920x1080 doesn't let me use some fonts). Mortality? People upgrading? Dunno. But there's good stuff occasionally.
Look guys, it's only hardware. You've got to treat it like toilet paper. It gets soiled, then throw it out.
Some keyboards are way more expensive. Mi current one was 70€. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Le 25/11/2020 à 13:44, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
Some keyboards are way more expensive. Mi current one was 70€.
specially on laptops :-( jdd -- http://dodin.org
On 25/11/2020 07:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Some keyboards are way more expensive. Mi current one was 70€.
Aye: new. And when you shrug off this mortal coil and 'executors', knowing no better, donate your stuff to the Salvation Army, who sort though it, clean it and put it up for sale at their thrift store, do you think they are going label that keyboard 70 Euros? Seven Euros more likely. People die all the time. When my father died we basically gave most of the content of the house away. An uncle got the car, a cousin got the electronic keyboards. I took his camera and lenses but couldn't take the darkroom stuff or the computer. All the furniture and clothes went to the Salvation Army along with the computer after I'd wiped the disk and CD'd any personal stuff I wanted to take. I could hand-carry the camera case, but shipping the computer or his musical decks or the car wasn't worth while. The thrift stores see good stuff all the time. Retirement; deaths, downsizing. Unless you are in need for leading edge stuff, and there are quite a few areas that applies, especially if you are dealing with things from a professional standpoint, then second hand or refurbished is often practical. There are a number of fields where the tax stricture means that professional players in the field have to upgrade/replace their equipment every three to five years regardless of its state. Often their suppliers take back the old equipment, refurbish it, and sell it on. I have a quality two generations back from leading edge DSLR+lens-kit that way. North America isn't as aggressive as Japan and Europe about vehicle standards so there is a good market for used motor vehicles. There are many things that, yes, you should buy new and clean. But I don't think keyboards or screens come into that category. And even when you buy new, buy opportunistically. And so it goes ... -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
On 25/11/2020 14.27, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 25/11/2020 07:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Some keyboards are way more expensive. Mi current one was 70€.
Aye: new.
No, a gamer mechanical keyboard. There are much cheaper new keyboards. Besides durability and good feel to the touch (I'm almost a touch typist), it can read many simultaneous and fast keys, which is a most for games. No, I don't game that kind, but I do like the touch. And it is cheap for its class, as the labelling on the keys is wearing out on some keys, almost invisible. Meaning the labels are a good skin, but not fused plastic of a different colour going deep. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 25/11/2020 09:29, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 25/11/2020 14.27, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 25/11/2020 07:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Some keyboards are way more expensive. Mi current one was 70€.
Aye: new.
No, a gamer mechanical keyboard. There are much cheaper new keyboards.
Besides durability and good feel to the touch (I'm almost a touch typist), it can read many simultaneous and fast keys, which is a most for games. No, I don't game that kind, but I do like the touch.
And it is cheap for its class, as the labelling on the keys is wearing out on some keys, almost invisible. Meaning the labels are a good skin, but not fused plastic of a different colour going deep.
This is mine https://www.amazon.ca/Genuine-IBM-Multimedia-Keyboard-SK-8815/dp/B01MUCAMSN https://www.ebay.com/p/74079061 it was C$4.95 at my local ValueVillage thrift store. No wearing of the labels; lots of fluid stains (coffee) from spills that I need to wipe off. I regularly shake out the muffin crumbs before the jam the keys. Just pick it up and shake it. https://www.humoretc.com/pccontent/etch.php No the keys don't light up, but then the labelling isn't wearing on them either. Yes all those axillary keys do things, but not necessarily what labels say. They do what I want them to do and what make sense when I'm running KDE! Yes, the two USB sockets work, are very useful and convenient if not blindingly fast. It's not a gaming keyboard but it is tough and reliable. It's probably the best value piece of computer equipment I've ever bought in my life! -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
On 2020-11-28 9:01 a.m., Anton Aylward wrote:
This is mine https://www.amazon.ca/Genuine-IBM-Multimedia-Keyboard-SK-8815/dp/B01MUCAMSN
https://www.ebay.com/p/74079061
it was C$4.95 at my local ValueVillage thrift store.
Here's mine, which cost me $5 at a surplus store. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard I've had it for well over 20 years and it's still going strong.
Here's mine, which cost me $5 at a surplus store. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard Thanks for that useful bit of information. I didn't know
On 11/28/2020 3:24 PM, James Knott wrote: that Unicomp was still around. I may buy one of those because I really hate the modern keyboard switches. Damon Register
On 2020-11-28 10:47 a.m., Damon Register wrote:
Here's mine, which cost me $5 at a surplus store. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard Thanks for that useful bit of information. I didn't know
On 11/28/2020 3:24 PM, James Knott wrote: that Unicomp was still around. I may buy one of those because I really hate the modern keyboard switches.
One really important feature is some models have a Tux key, instead of the usual Windows key. My M keyboard doesn't have a Windows key, but my ThinkPad came with one. I was able to fix that with a Tux sticker that fits perfectly into a depression in that key.
On 11/28/20 10:57 AM, James Knott wrote:
On 2020-11-28 10:47 a.m., Damon Register wrote:
Here's mine, which cost me $5 at a surplus store. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard Thanks for that useful bit of information. I didn't know
On 11/28/2020 3:24 PM, James Knott wrote: that Unicomp was still around. I may buy one of those because I really hate the modern keyboard switches.
One really important feature is some models have a Tux key, instead of the usual Windows key. My M keyboard doesn't have a Windows key, but my ThinkPad came with one. I was able to fix that with a Tux sticker that fits perfectly into a depression in that key. /snip/
For any who would like to use the superior Model M on a Windows system, Ctrl-Esc serves the same purpose as the left Windows key. --doug
Le 28/11/2020 à 16:47, Damon Register a écrit : Damon Register
_______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
also here, list signature not removed or is it my thunderbird? (78.4.0 (64 bits)) jdd -- http://dodin.org
Le 28/11/2020 à 18:58, jdd@dodin.org a écrit :
Le 28/11/2020 à 16:47, Damon Register a écrit : Damon Register
_______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
also here, list signature not removed
or is it my thunderbird? (78.4.0 (64 bits))
jdd
looks like one need to have his own signature to have the list signature away jdd -- http://dodin.org
* jdd@dodin.org <jdd@dodin.org> [11-28-20 13:02]:
Le 28/11/2020 à 16:47, Damon Register a écrit : Damon Register
_______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
also here, list signature not removed
or is it my thunderbird? (78.4.0 (64 bits))
jdd -- http://dodin.org _______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
because "list signature" does not begin with --<space> -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
On 28/11/2020 20.40, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* jdd@dodin.org <jdd@dodin.org> [11-28-20 13:02]:
Le 28/11/2020 à 16:47, Damon Register a écrit :
because "list signature" does not begin with --<space>
Not that. I sent one email to the test list, with proper signature separator. If I reply with this identity, the footer is removed. If I reply using my gmx account, it is not removed. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 28/11/2020 15.01, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 25/11/2020 09:29, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 25/11/2020 14.27, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 25/11/2020 07:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Some keyboards are way more expensive. Mi current one was 70€.
Aye: new.
No, a gamer mechanical keyboard. There are much cheaper new keyboards.
Besides durability and good feel to the touch (I'm almost a touch typist), it can read many simultaneous and fast keys, which is a most for games. No, I don't game that kind, but I do like the touch.
And it is cheap for its class, as the labelling on the keys is wearing out on some keys, almost invisible. Meaning the labels are a good skin, but not fused plastic of a different colour going deep.
This is mine: <https://www.pccomponentes.com/thermaltake-tt-esports-meka-g1-gaming-keyboard> No key lights.
This is mine https://www.amazon.ca/Genuine-IBM-Multimedia-Keyboard-SK-8815/dp/B01MUCAMSN
Does not say the price when new.
https://www.ebay.com/p/74079061
it was C$4.95 at my local ValueVillage thrift store.
I don't have any known "thrift store" available.
No wearing of the labels; lots of fluid stains (coffee) from spills that I need to wipe off. I regularly shake out the muffin crumbs before the jam the keys. Just pick it up and shake it. https://www.humoretc.com/pccontent/etch.php
No the keys don't light up, but then the labelling isn't wearing on them either. Yes all those axillary keys do things, but not necessarily what labels say. They do what I want them to do and what make sense when I'm running KDE! Yes, the two USB sockets work, are very useful and convenient if not blindingly fast.
It's not a gaming keyboard but it is tough and reliable. It's probably the best value piece of computer equipment I've ever bought in my life!
-- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 07:37:31 -0500 Anton Aylward <opensuse@antonaylward.com> wrote:
The same thrift store regularly has a good selection of keyboards and occasionally a worth while screen.
Most people don't live near a thrift store like that (assuming I understand a thrift store to be a secondhand shop or charity shop or suchlike).
On 2020-11-25 8:44 a.m., Dave Howorth wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 07:37:31 -0500 Anton Aylward<opensuse@antonaylward.com> wrote:
The same thrift store regularly has a good selection of keyboards and occasionally a worth while screen. Most people don't live near a thrift store like that (assuming I understand a thrift store to be a secondhand shop or charity shop or suchlike).
I have one across the street and they do carry some computer gear. However, I think a more appropriate name would be "Antique Shoppe" ;-)
On 25/11/2020 08:44, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 07:37:31 -0500 Anton Aylward <opensuse@antonaylward.com> wrote:
The same thrift store regularly has a good selection of keyboards and occasionally a worth while screen.
Most people don't live near a thrift store like that (assuming I understand a thrift store to be a secondhand shop or charity shop or suchlike).
Indeed. I don't. It's a bus ride away. But then there's a good ethic supermarket near there so it's worth the trip anyway :-) Let's face it, there are a lot of stores, places, that you visit, come of them often, such as girlfriends, that are a non-trivial trip away. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
Anton, et al -- ...and then Anton Aylward said... % % On 25/11/2020 08:44, Dave Howorth wrote: % > % >Most people don't live near a thrift store like that (assuming I ... % ... % It's a bus ride away. % But then there's a good ethic supermarket near there so it's worth the % trip anyway :-) [snip] You can now shop ethics at a commodity store as though they were no more important and toothpaste or batteries?!? Why, I remember when ethics really meant something and required time and care to grow to full strength, and it wasn't just about finding the lowest price. And are these ethics themselves churned out in sweat shops on the backs of the underprivileged, thereby lacing the ethic with irony as the lesson is lost? This is an outrage! ;-D -- David T-G See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/ See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt
On 11/28/20 8:16 AM, David T-G wrote:
Anton, et al --
...and then Anton Aylward said... % % On 25/11/2020 08:44, Dave Howorth wrote: % > % >Most people don't live near a thrift store like that (assuming I ... % ... % It's a bus ride away. % But then there's a good ethic supermarket near there so it's worth the % trip anyway :-) [snip]
You can now shop ethics at a commodity store as though they were no more important and toothpaste or batteries?!? Why, I remember when ethics really meant something and required time and care to grow to full strength, and it wasn't just about finding the lowest price. And are these ethics themselves churned out in sweat shops on the backs of the underprivileged, thereby lacing the ethic with irony as the lesson is lost? This is an outrage!
;-D Good one.
-- There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order. The soap box represents exercising one's right to freedom of speech to influence politics to defend liberty. The ballot box represents exercising one's right to vote to elect a government which defends liberty. The jury box represents using jury nullification to refuse to convict someone being prosecuted for breaking an unjust law that decreases liberty. The ammo box represents exercising one's right to keep and bear arms to oppose, in armed conflict, a government that decreases liberty.
On 11/23/20 8:25 PM, Bob Rea wrote:
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
Our sysadmins always put dirty keyboards in the regular dishwasher. I did it once myself - with the keyboard I'm writing this. ;-) Of course, I waited some time to be sure it really got dry again. Have a nice day, Berny
Le 28/11/2020 à 16:44, Bernhard Voelker a écrit :
On 11/23/20 8:25 PM, Bob Rea wrote:
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
Our sysadmins always put dirty keyboards in the regular dishwasher. I did it once myself - with the keyboard I'm writing this. ;-) Of course, I waited some time to be sure it really got dry again.
really?
Have a nice day, Berny _______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
I think there is a problem with the mail software, many people don't have the signature removed when replying... jdd -- http://dodin.org
On 2020-11-28 12:57 p.m., jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Our sysadmins always put dirty keyboards in the regular dishwasher. I did it once myself - with the keyboard I'm writing this. ;-) Of course, I waited some time to be sure it really got dry again.
really?
While I haven't used a dishwasher, I have often cleaned them under hot water. Electronic gear generally resists water.
On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 18:57:39 +0100 "jdd@dodin.org" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 28/11/2020 à 16:44, Bernhard Voelker a écrit :
On 11/23/20 8:25 PM, Bob Rea wrote:
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
Our sysadmins always put dirty keyboards in the regular dishwasher. I did it once myself - with the keyboard I'm writing this. ;-) Of course, I waited some time to be sure it really got dry again.
really?
Have a nice day, Berny _______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
I think there is a problem with the mail software, many people don't have the signature removed when replying...
jdd
what are you talking about?
On 28/11/2020 20.45, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 18:57:39 +0100 "" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 28/11/2020 à 16:44, Bernhard Voelker a écrit :
_______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
I think there is a problem with the mail software, many people don't have the signature removed when replying...
jdd
what are you talking about? _______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
Don't you see it ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 11/28/20 1:57 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 28/11/2020 20.45, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 18:57:39 +0100 "" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 28/11/2020 à 16:44, Bernhard Voelker a écrit :
_______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
I think there is a problem with the mail software, many people don't have the signature removed when replying...
jdd
what are you talking about? _______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
Don't you see it ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?
_______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
Happens here too, Probably that damn Hello Kitty interface ... :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
* David C. Rankin <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> [11-28-20 20:37]:
On 11/28/20 1:57 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 28/11/2020 20.45, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 18:57:39 +0100 "" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 28/11/2020 à 16:44, Bernhard Voelker a écrit :
_______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
I think there is a problem with the mail software, many people don't have the signature removed when replying...
jdd
what are you talking about? _______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
Don't you see it ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?
_______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
Happens here too,
Probably that damn Hello Kitty interface ... :)
it is not properly identified, <dash><dash><space> -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
On 29/11/2020 03.07, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* David C. Rankin <> [11-28-20 20:37]:
On 11/28/20 1:57 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 28/11/2020 20.45, Dave Howorth wrote:
Happens here too,
Probably that damn Hello Kitty interface ... :)
it is not properly identified, <dash><dash><space>
No, that will not work. There will be a <dash><dash><space><return> followed by the person signature, then <dash><dash><space><return> followed by the list footer. Some clients trigger on the first one, others on the last. I tested it on the test list, anyway. There is <dash><dash><space><return> followed by signature, then two attachments: one is the PGP signature, and the other is the list footer (text/plain) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline .... When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Op 29-11-2020 om 12:47 schreef Carlos E. R.:
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
True. But... a reply on a selected part of the text, does strip everything after [dash dash space]. This time at least. :) -- Harrie Baken | Tekstbureau TekstBaken
On 29/11/2020 13.47, Harrie Baken wrote:
Op 29-11-2020 om 12:47 schreef Carlos E. R.:
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
True. But... a reply on a selected part of the text, does strip everything after [dash dash space]. This time at least. :)
Of course, because in that way Thunderbird switches mode of work. It will create an initial reply line, and _only_ include the text in the selection block, as quotes. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 06:47]:
On 29/11/2020 03.07, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* David C. Rankin <> [11-28-20 20:37]:
On 11/28/20 1:57 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 28/11/2020 20.45, Dave Howorth wrote:
Happens here too,
Probably that damn Hello Kitty interface ... :)
it is not properly identified, <dash><dash><space>
No, that will not work.
There will be a <dash><dash><space><return> followed by the person signature, then <dash><dash><space><return> followed by the list footer.
Some clients trigger on the first one, others on the last.
I tested it on the test list, anyway. There is <dash><dash><space><return> followed by signature, then two attachments: one is the PGP signature, and the other is the list footer (text/plain)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline ....
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
I am sorry for you that Thunderbird has deviated from the accepted standards. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:29:40 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 06:47]:
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
I am sorry for you that Thunderbird has deviated from the accepted standards.
Would either of you care to provide a link to any document establishing these claimed standards?
* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [11-29-20 12:26]:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:29:40 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 06:47]:
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
I am sorry for you that Thunderbird has deviated from the accepted standards.
Would either of you care to provide a link to any document establishing these claimed standards?
mentioned in para 4.3 https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt originally mentioned rfc2646 mentioned 1849 -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:38:48 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [11-29-20 12:26]:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:29:40 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 06:47]:
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
I am sorry for you that Thunderbird has deviated from the accepted standards.
Would either of you care to provide a link to any document establishing these claimed standards?
mentioned in para 4.3 https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt
Yes, but that just talks about how to form a signature. It doesn't talk about MUA behaviour when replying and doesn't consider multiple signatures. I'd really like to find something that does.
originally mentioned rfc2646 mentioned 1849
Le 2020-11-29 18:57, Dave Howorth a écrit :
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:38:48 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [11-29-20 12:26]:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:29:40 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 06:47]:
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
I am sorry for you that Thunderbird has deviated from the accepted standards.
Would either of you care to provide a link to any document establishing these claimed standards?
mentioned in para 4.3 https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt
Yes, but that just talks about how to form a signature. It doesn't talk about MUA behaviour when replying and doesn't consider multiple signatures. I'd really like to find something that does.
originally mentioned rfc2646 mentioned 1849
_______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
don't think it's only thunderbird, here I use webmail (Roundcube, I guesse) see what happen jdd
* jdd@dodin.org <jdd@dodin.org> [11-29-20 13:09]:
Le 2020-11-29 18:57, Dave Howorth a écrit :
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:38:48 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [11-29-20 12:26]:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:29:40 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 06:47]:
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
I am sorry for you that Thunderbird has deviated from the accepted standards.
Would either of you care to provide a link to any document establishing these claimed standards?
mentioned in para 4.3 https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt
Yes, but that just talks about how to form a signature. It doesn't talk about MUA behaviour when replying and doesn't consider multiple signatures. I'd really like to find something that does.
originally mentioned rfc2646 mentioned 1849
_______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
don't think it's only thunderbird, here I use webmail (Roundcube, I guesse) see what happen
so I just removed the multiple dash line and replaced it with the expected sig line and removed my "sig". see what happens when you respond to this msg. __ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
* Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> [11-29-20 13:17]:
* jdd@dodin.org <jdd@dodin.org> [11-29-20 13:09]:
Le 2020-11-29 18:57, Dave Howorth a écrit :
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:38:48 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [11-29-20 12:26]:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:29:40 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 06:47]:
> When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list > footer.
I am sorry for you that Thunderbird has deviated from the accepted standards.
Would either of you care to provide a link to any document establishing these claimed standards?
mentioned in para 4.3 https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt
Yes, but that just talks about how to form a signature. It doesn't talk about MUA behaviour when replying and doesn't consider multiple signatures. I'd really like to find something that does.
originally mentioned rfc2646 mentioned 1849
_______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
don't think it's only thunderbird, here I use webmail (Roundcube, I guesse) see what happen
so I just removed the multiple dash line and replaced it with the expected sig line and removed my "sig". see what happens when you respond to this msg.
or with both. __ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: <4c46523e-2441-64f1-c4b5-6cc0d63ddff1@Telcontar.valinor> El 2020-11-29 a las 13:18 -0500, Patrick Shanahan escribió:
* Patrick Shanahan <> [11-29-20 13:17]:
* jdd@dodin.org <> [11-29-20 13:09]:
Le 2020-11-29 18:57, Dave Howorth a écrit :
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:38:48 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
don't think it's only thunderbird, here I use webmail (Roundcube, I guesse) see what happen
so I just removed the multiple dash line and replaced it with the expected sig line and removed my "sig". see what happens when you respond to this msg.
or with both.
__ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
I don't know if that one is the first or the second. I don't see the space after the dash, though. This is with Alpine. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCX8P0RRwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVpJYAmgMUjeY1070FYIouWp3A VMqpqrUlAJ9yrhyx9515k9WsQ0YYnfSqlkq80g== =AnZv -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:19:33 +0100 (CET) "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Content-ID: <4c46523e-2441-64f1-c4b5-6cc0d63ddff1@Telcontar.valinor>
El 2020-11-29 a las 13:18 -0500, Patrick Shanahan escribió:
* Patrick Shanahan <> [11-29-20 13:17]:
* jdd@dodin.org <> [11-29-20 13:09]:
Le 2020-11-29 18:57, Dave Howorth a écrit :
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:38:48 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
don't think it's only thunderbird, here I use webmail (Roundcube, I guesse) see what happen
so I just removed the multiple dash line and replaced it with the expected sig line and removed my "sig". see what happens when you respond to this msg.
or with both.
__ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
I don't know if that one is the first or the second. I don't see the space after the dash, though.
This is with Alpine.
- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCX8P0RRwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVpJYAmgMUjeY1070FYIouWp3A VMqpqrUlAJ9yrhyx9515k9WsQ0YYnfSqlkq80g== =AnZv -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
But you mess everything up by using a PGP signature, so your message isn't text/plain so even Patrick's suggested standard doesn't apply. FWIW< I don't believe there are any 'standards' as to what a MUA or a mailing list 'should' do. I wait to be persuaded otherwise.
On 29/11/2020 21.04, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:19:33 +0100 (CET) "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:
This is with Alpine.
But you mess everything up by using a PGP signature, so your message isn't text/plain so even Patrick's suggested standard doesn't apply.
I don't "mess" anything. It is your mail client failure to support inline PGP signatures. Thunderbird handled it fine till they removed enigmail support recently.
FWIW< I don't believe there are any 'standards' as to what a MUA or a mailing list 'should' do. I wait to be persuaded otherwise.
If you ask on the Alpine mail list they will tell you that this feature or other is working according to this or that standard, and that they don't do whatever because it is not in a standard. It was specially true while Mark Crispin was alive. Thunderbird doesn't. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 21:31:00 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 29/11/2020 21.04, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:19:33 +0100 (CET) "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:
This is with Alpine.
But you mess everything up by using a PGP signature, so your message isn't text/plain so even Patrick's suggested standard doesn't apply.
I don't "mess" anything. It is your mail client failure to support inline PGP signatures.
When I said 'mess up' I was simply pointing out that the reference Patrick supplied wasn't relevant to your post since you post in a different format. Sorry if you took offence - none intended.
Thunderbird handled it fine till they removed enigmail support recently.
Don't care - I'm interested to know what standards apply.
FWIW< I don't believe there are any 'standards' as to what a MUA or a mailing list 'should' do. I wait to be persuaded otherwise.
If you ask on the Alpine mail list they will tell you that this feature or other is working according to this or that standard, and that they don't do whatever because it is not in a standard. It was specially true while Mark Crispin was alive.
Again, I don't care what the Alpine mailing list or any other say. What standards are there?
On 30/11/2020 01.27, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 21:31:00 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:
On 29/11/2020 21.04, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:19:33 +0100 (CET) "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:
This is with Alpine.
But you mess everything up by using a PGP signature, so your message isn't text/plain so even Patrick's suggested standard doesn't apply.
I don't "mess" anything. It is your mail client failure to support inline PGP signatures.
When I said 'mess up' I was simply pointing out that the reference Patrick supplied wasn't relevant to your post since you post in a different format. Sorry if you took offence - none intended.
Ok, no problem :-)
Thunderbird handled it fine till they removed enigmail support recently.
Don't care - I'm interested to know what standards apply.
Me, no idea.
FWIW< I don't believe there are any 'standards' as to what a MUA or a mailing list 'should' do. I wait to be persuaded otherwise.
If you ask on the Alpine mail list they will tell you that this feature or other is working according to this or that standard, and that they don't do whatever because it is not in a standard. It was specially true while Mark Crispin was alive.
Again, I don't care what the Alpine mailing list or any other say. What standards are there?
/I/ don't know. What I was trying to say is that those people knew or know. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 29/11/2020 19.18, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Patrick Shanahan <> [11-29-20 13:17]:
* jdd@dodin.org <> [11-29-20 13:09]:
Le 2020-11-29 18:57, Dave Howorth a écrit :
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:38:48 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <> wrote:
so I just removed the multiple dash line and replaced it with the expected sig line and removed my "sig". see what happens when you respond to this msg.
or with both.
__ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
And this is with Thunderbird - same behaviour, except that there is a space after the dash. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2020-11-29 at 17:24 -0000, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:29:40 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <> wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 06:47]:
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
I am sorry for you that Thunderbird has deviated from the accepted standards.
Would either of you care to provide a link to any document establishing these claimed standards?
I did not claim anything regarding standards, I don't know what they are in this respect :-)
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Alpine also finds to detect the block in this post. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) El 2020-11-29 a las 17:24 -0000, Dave Howorth escribió: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCX8Py5xwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVfE4An3jQVxfDZYJTCl0CATIg AP8q8gqjAJ9AfC4Vzya+hQP1AeSoJKohzJQiLw== =V9K1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 14:15]:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Sunday, 2020-11-29 at 17:24 -0000, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:29:40 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <> wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 06:47]:
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
I am sorry for you that Thunderbird has deviated from the accepted standards.
Would either of you care to provide a link to any document establishing these claimed standards?
I did not claim anything regarding standards, I don't know what they are in this respect :-)
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Alpine also finds to detect the block in this post.
the "block" is not properly identified. why would you expect any client to "detect" it? it is just text.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCX8Py5xwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVfE4An3jQVxfDZYJTCl0CATIg AP8q8gqjAJ9AfC4Vzya+hQP1AeSoJKohzJQiLw== =V9K1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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-- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2020-11-29 at 14:17 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 14:15]:
On Sunday, 2020-11-29 at 17:24 -0000, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:29:40 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <> wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 06:47]:
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
I am sorry for you that Thunderbird has deviated from the accepted standards.
Would either of you care to provide a link to any document establishing these claimed standards?
I did not claim anything regarding standards, I don't know what they are in this respect :-)
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Alpine also finds to detect the block in this post.
huh, fails, not finds.
the "block" is not properly identified. why would you expect any client to "detect" it? it is just text.
Identified, how? As a signature? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCX8P0vxwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVGBMAoInmBE5r9bf01xuEg25g DdNNufwlAJ4m3EmC2545fZeiEpXlxYzAVTI+yw== =MjHA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 14:24]:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Sunday, 2020-11-29 at 14:17 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 14:15]:
On Sunday, 2020-11-29 at 17:24 -0000, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 11:29:40 -0500 Patrick Shanahan <> wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 06:47]:
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
I am sorry for you that Thunderbird has deviated from the accepted standards.
Would either of you care to provide a link to any document establishing these claimed standards?
I did not claim anything regarding standards, I don't know what they are in this respect :-)
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Alpine also finds to detect the block in this post.
huh, fails, not finds.
the "block" is not properly identified. why would you expect any client to "detect" it? it is just text.
Identified, how? As a signature?
- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCX8P0vxwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVGBMAoInmBE5r9bf01xuEg25g DdNNufwlAJ4m3EmC2545fZeiEpXlxYzAVTI+yw== =MjHA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ openSUSE Users mailing list -- users@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email users-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org
*you* define it, I no longer care -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
On 29/11/2020 22.47, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 14:24]:
...
Alpine also finds to detect the block in this post.
huh, fails, not finds.
the "block" is not properly identified. why would you expect any client to "detect" it? it is just text.
Identified, how? As a signature?
...
*you* define it, I no longer care
Huh? By the way, it is obvious that your mutt does not support inline PGP signatures. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 17:57]:
On 29/11/2020 22.47, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 14:24]:
...
Alpine also finds to detect the block in this post.
huh, fails, not finds.
the "block" is not properly identified. why would you expect any client to "detect" it? it is just text.
Identified, how? As a signature?
...
*you* define it, I no longer care
Huh?
By the way, it is obvious that your mutt does not support inline PGP signatures.
no, not a failing to support but a feature I will not enable as I see absolutely no reason for the added trash in the lists and other forums I participate. you feel it is necessary (I guess) and I do not. that does not mean I am wrong. I cannot be bothered to take the time to remove the innocuous lines you force upon me. and you add much gibberish with them just to post 3 new lines. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
On 30/11/2020 00.11, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 17:57]:
On 29/11/2020 22.47, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 14:24]:
...
By the way, it is obvious that your mutt does not support inline PGP signatures.
no, not a failing to support but a feature I will not enable as I see absolutely no reason for the added trash in the lists and other forums I participate. you feel it is necessary (I guess) and I do not. that does not mean I am wrong. I cannot be bothered to take the time to remove the innocuous lines you force upon me.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying you to use PGP, but that your mail program does not understand the inline signatures sent by others (me, for instance), and displays gibberish to you, instead of removing them automatically as it should.
and you add much gibberish with them just to post 3 new lines.
You know, because I told it more than once, that I have to use PGP signing because some one time ago took the pain to impersonate me and insult other people. I have to use it for our protection. Thunderbird now defaults to also attaching the PGP public key by default, adding up to 20 kilobytes to each mail. You can be angry at them :-p -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 20:26]:
On 30/11/2020 00.11, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 17:57]:
On 29/11/2020 22.47, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 14:24]:
...
By the way, it is obvious that your mutt does not support inline PGP signatures.
no, not a failing to support but a feature I will not enable as I see absolutely no reason for the added trash in the lists and other forums I participate. you feel it is necessary (I guess) and I do not. that does not mean I am wrong. I cannot be bothered to take the time to remove the innocuous lines you force upon me.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying you to use PGP, but that your mail program does not understand the inline signatures sent by others (me, for instance), and displays gibberish to you, instead of removing them automatically as it should.
I *completely* understood you. I do not use pgp and am not interested in using it or complying with you forcing it upon me. I see it as trash on mailing lists. good for bank transactions or such and secret communications. not for me.
and you add much gibberish with them just to post 3 new lines.
You know, because I told it more than once, that I have to use PGP signing because some one time ago took the pain to impersonate me and insult other people. I have to use it for our protection.
protection for what. no need to answer that. they will still "impersonate you. I do not fear that someone will impersonate me. do what they will.
Thunderbird now defaults to also attaching the PGP public key by default, adding up to 20 kilobytes to each mail. You can be angry at them :-p
why would I be angry at Thunderbird? it is your choice to use it and foist it's kilobytes upon the rest of us. [-- Error: unable to create PGP subprocess! --] bah, just because I refuse to install pgp on my server.
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-- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
* Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> [11-29-20 20:36]:
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 20:26]:
On 30/11/2020 00.11, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 17:57]:
On 29/11/2020 22.47, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [11-29-20 14:24]:
...
By the way, it is obvious that your mutt does not support inline PGP signatures.
no, not a failing to support but a feature I will not enable as I see absolutely no reason for the added trash in the lists and other forums I participate. you feel it is necessary (I guess) and I do not. that does not mean I am wrong. I cannot be bothered to take the time to remove the innocuous lines you force upon me.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying you to use PGP, but that your mail program does not understand the inline signatures sent by others (me, for instance), and displays gibberish to you, instead of removing them automatically as it should.
I *completely* understood you. I do not use pgp and am not interested in using it or complying with you forcing it upon me. I see it as trash on mailing lists. good for bank transactions or such and secret communications. not for me.
and you add much gibberish with them just to post 3 new lines.
You know, because I told it more than once, that I have to use PGP signing because some one time ago took the pain to impersonate me and insult other people. I have to use it for our protection.
protection for what. no need to answer that. they will still "impersonate you. I do not fear that someone will impersonate me. do what they will.
Thunderbird now defaults to also attaching the PGP public key by default, adding up to 20 kilobytes to each mail. You can be angry at them :-p
why would I be angry at Thunderbird? it is your choice to use it and foist it's kilobytes upon the rest of us.
[-- Error: unable to create PGP subprocess! --]
bah, just because I refuse to install pgp on my server.
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anyway, back to Minions of Midas on netflixx/amazon.firestick -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
Le 29/11/2020 à 23:54, Carlos E. R. a écrit : (...)
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what I notice is that the signature of the sender *is* removed, but not the list one (up there), even if it's under the signature. And I have exactly the sale thing with my webmail roundcube. I don't understand how it's possible... but AFAIK opensuse new lists are the only one that have this thing jdd -- http://dodin.org
On 30/11/2020 08.30, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 29/11/2020 à 23:54, Carlos E. R. a écrit : (...)
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what I notice is that the signature of the sender *is* removed, but not the list one (up there), even if it's under the signature.
And I have exactly the sale thing with my webmail roundcube.
I don't understand how it's possible... but AFAIK opensuse new lists are the only one that have this thing
jdd
But see, with this mail of your's it worked. Everything below your dash,dash,space,return was removed, including the list footer. But it doesn't happen with mine, because the footer is attached, not inline. Both cases with Thunderbird. If I try with Alpine, it works in both cases. So, IMO, it is a mail client bug (or feature). -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 09:09:06 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
Both cases with Thunderbird. If I try with Alpine, it works in both cases.
So, IMO, it is a mail client bug (or feature).
Well to know that, you need to know whether there any standards for correct behaviour and if there are, what they say. Otherwise it might just be two programmers making different decisions about what is 'best'.
On 29/11/2020 17.29, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [11-29-20 06:47]:
On 29/11/2020 03.07, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* David C. Rankin <> [11-28-20 20:37]:
On 11/28/20 1:57 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 28/11/2020 20.45, Dave Howorth wrote:
Happens here too,
Probably that damn Hello Kitty interface ... :)
it is not properly identified, <dash><dash><space>
No, that will not work.
There will be a <dash><dash><space><return> followed by the person signature, then <dash><dash><space><return> followed by the list footer.
Some clients trigger on the first one, others on the last.
I tested it on the test list, anyway. There is <dash><dash><space><return> followed by signature, then two attachments: one is the PGP signature, and the other is the list footer (text/plain)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline ....
When I reply, Thunderbird strips my signature, but not the list footer.
I am sorry for you that Thunderbird has deviated from the accepted standards.
The old Thunderbird has the same behaviour. Your signature and footer are detected, by the way. Your post comes a a single base64 block. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 11/28/20 6:57 PM, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 28/11/2020 à 16:44, Bernhard Voelker a écrit :
Our sysadmins always put dirty keyboards in the regular dishwasher. I did it once myself - with the keyboard I'm writing this. ;-) Of course, I waited some time to be sure it really got dry again.
really?
yes. ;-) I only have keyboards with USB cables, so I wouldn't do it with bluetooth keyboards or anything which needs a battery (but I wouldn't buy those anyway). Have a nice day, Berny
Le 29/11/2020 à 17:52, Bernhard Voelker a écrit :
On 11/28/20 6:57 PM, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 28/11/2020 à 16:44, Bernhard Voelker a écrit :
Our sysadmins always put dirty keyboards in the regular dishwasher. I did it once myself - with the keyboard I'm writing this. ;-) Of course, I waited some time to be sure it really got dry again.
really?
yes. ;-) I only have keyboards with USB cables, so I wouldn't do it with bluetooth keyboards or anything which needs a battery (but I wouldn't buy those anyway).
Have a nice day, Berny
I will try it, not that difficult thanks jdd -- http://dodin.org
On 2020-11-28 16:44, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
On 11/23/20 8:25 PM, Bob Rea wrote:
So I spilled some hot chocolate on my keyboard It sticks What's your best advice on cleaning it?
Our sysadmins always put dirty keyboards in the regular dishwasher. I did it once myself - with the keyboard I'm writing this. ;-) Of course, I waited some time to be sure it really got dry again.
really? Even those with smartcard-readers inside of them? Some at work are rather paranoia with current pandemic; they instruct the des-infect keyboard & mice, but fail to clear out how to do it
On 2020-11-30 9:29 a.m., suse@a-domani.nl wrote:
Some at work are rather paranoia with current pandemic; they instruct the des-infect keyboard & mice, but fail to clear out how to do it
For something like that, I would expect those sanitizing wipes would do the trick. In fact, you could use alcohol or any of the traditional cleaners, as they'd certainly kill the virus. Just put some on a clean cloth and go to it. Remember, according to Trump, bleach is a great way to cure COVID. ;-)
On 11/30/20 8:29 AM, suse@a-domani.nl wrote:
eally? Even those with smartcard-readers inside of them? Some at work are rather paranoia with current pandemic; they instruct the des-infect keyboard & mice, but fail to clear out how to do it
No, no, no... This only works for plain old mechanical keyboard with a chord to connect either though USB or PS2 or old 1/2" keyboard connector. Don't use it with anything with batteries or wireless. Old keyboards were quality components with sealed, non-corroding (usually gold-plated) contacts that were find to put in the dishwasher. New crap, circa 2000+ I'm batting 50/50 with the dishwasher cleaning. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 30/11/2020 23.54, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/30/20 8:29 AM, suse@a-domani.nl wrote:
eally? Even those with smartcard-readers inside of them? Some at work are rather paranoia with current pandemic; they instruct the des-infect keyboard & mice, but fail to clear out how to do it
No, no, no...
This only works for plain old mechanical keyboard with a chord to connect either though USB or PS2 or old 1/2" keyboard connector.
Don't use it with anything with batteries or wireless. Old keyboards were quality components with sealed, non-corroding (usually gold-plated) contacts that were find to put in the dishwasher.
New crap, circa 2000+ I'm batting 50/50 with the dishwasher cleaning.
I have a keyboard that I had to wash after tea came inside. Half of it never worked again. There are several layers of what would be similar to transparent foil printed circuit boards. A drop of water in the middle ruins it if it doesn't dry out, or the layers are not perfectly aligned again. Minimum, you have to disassemble completely so that the layers dry out completely, then reassemble. However, some keyboards claim they are "liquid" resistant. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
participants (20)
-
Anton Aylward -
Bernhard Voelker -
Bill Walsh -
Bob Rea -
Carl Spitzer {L Juno} -
Carlos E. R. -
Damon Register -
Dave Howorth -
David C. Rankin -
David T-G -
Doug McGarrett -
Harrie Baken -
James Knott -
jdd＠dodin.org -
Josef Moellers -
Patrick Shanahan -
Ralph -
Simon Becherer -
Stakanov -
suse＠a-domani.nl