[opensuse] Suggestions for backup software?
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages. I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.
I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.
Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually. The initial setup is rather straight-forward. -- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 March 2008 00:47:20 Sandy Drobic wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.
I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.
Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.
The initial setup is rather straight-forward.
What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 31, Stan Goodman wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 00:47:20 Sandy Drobic wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.
I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.
Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.
The initial setup is rather straight-forward.
What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage.
rsnapshot is a software: http://www.rsnapshot.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- rsnapshot is a filesystem snapshot utility for making backups of local and remote systems. Using rsync and hard links, it is possible to keep multiple, full backups instantly available. The disk space required is just a little more than the space of one full backup, plus incrementals. Depending on your configuration, it is quite possible to set up in just a few minutes. Files can be restored by the users who own them, without the root user getting involved. There are no tapes to change, so once it's set up, you may never need to think about it again. rsnapshot is written entirely in Perl. It should work on any reasonably modern UNIX compatible OS, including: Debian, Redhat, Fedora, SuSE, Gentoo, Slackware, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Solaris, Mac OS X, and even IRIX. rsnapshot was originally based on an article called Easy Automated Snapshot-Style Backups with Linux and Rsync, by Mike Rubel. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depending on your needs this might be a convenient solutions, I wouldn't call it a proffesional backup solution. -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ │ Harald Müller-Ney, Project Manager Maintenance Coordination │ │ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, D-90409 Nürnberg │ │ Phone: +49 (0) 911 74053130 Mobile: +49 (0) 179 2287009 │ │ Fax: +49 (0) 911 74053575 eMail: hmuelle@novell.com │ │ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) │ +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 March 2008 03:26:30 pm Harald Mueller-Ney wrote:
Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.
The initial setup is rather straight-forward.
What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage.
rsnapshot is a software: http://www.rsnapshot.org/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- rsnapshot is a filesystem snapshot utility for making backups of local and remote systems.
very cool would one need to log in as root to back up the users' files without any locks? -- kai www.filesite.org || www.4thedadz.com || www.perfectreign.com remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I am much indebted to ALL those who have given me the benefit of their experience and insight with backup. I feel that I have enough information now to choose a way to go. As always, I try to acknowledge my gratitude for the help of others here. But the number of responses is so great that I hope I can be excused for this group acknowledgement. On Monday 31 March 2008 01:26:30 Harald Mueller-Ney wrote:
On Mon, Mar 31, Stan Goodman wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 00:47:20 Sandy Drobic wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.
I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.
Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.
The initial setup is rather straight-forward.
What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage.
rsnapshot is a software: http://www.rsnapshot.org/
----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- rsnapshot is a filesystem snapshot utility for making backups of local and remote systems.
Using rsync and hard links, it is possible to keep multiple, full backups instantly available. The disk space required is just a little more than the space of one full backup, plus incrementals.
Depending on your configuration, it is quite possible to set up in just a few minutes. Files can be restored by the users who own them, without the root user getting involved.
There are no tapes to change, so once it's set up, you may never need to think about it again.
rsnapshot is written entirely in Perl. It should work on any reasonably modern UNIX compatible OS, including: Debian, Redhat, Fedora, SuSE, Gentoo, Slackware, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Solaris, Mac OS X, and even IRIX.
rsnapshot was originally based on an article called Easy Automated Snapshot-Style Backups with Linux and Rsync, by Mike Rubel. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----
Depending on your needs this might be a convenient solutions, I wouldn't call it a proffesional backup solution. -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ │ Harald Müller-Ney, Project Manager Maintenance Coordination │ │ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, D-90409 Nürnberg │ │ Phone: +49 (0) 911 74053130 Mobile: +49 (0) 179 2287009 │ │ Fax: +49 (0) 911 74053575 eMail: hmuelle@novell.com │ │ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) │ +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will ^^^^^^^^^ give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.
The initial setup is rather straight-forward.
What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage.
hmmm, rsnapshot ?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rsync http://www.rsnapshot.org/ Or got google restricted nowadays? ;-P -- All the best, Peter J. P-N. aedon DESIGNS >> http://www.aedon.selfip.com/ openSUSE 10.3 x86_64, fully updated + KDE:KDE3 buildservice, customized for picture manipulation and multimedia on desktop. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 March 2008 01:36:22 Peter J. P-N wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will
^^^^^^^^^
give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.
The initial setup is rather straight-forward.
What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage.
hmmm, rsnapshot ?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rsync http://www.rsnapshot.org/
Or got google restricted nowadays? ;-P
No, Google is working fine here. I can use it, and I am using it. I also note the backup packages available through YaST. What I hoped for was recommendations from people on this group, who have used this or that software, and who might be prepared to favor me with their own experience as a supplement to what I see on ever friendly Google. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage.
Hi Stan, I've had good luck with rdiff-backup. It's in the main SuSE repository and is easy to install. I've used it both for disk-to-disk backups on the same machine and for remote-server pulls using ssh. I've even used it for backing up Windows boxes using smbfs to mount their exported "folders", then rdiff-backup to a local hard disk. Runs fine from cron. Regards, Lew Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Lew Wolfgang wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage.
Hi Stan,
I've had good luck with rdiff-backup. It's in the main SuSE repository and is easy to install. I've used it both for disk-to-disk backups on the same machine and for remote-server pulls using ssh. I've even used it for backing up Windows boxes using smbfs to mount their exported "folders", then rdiff-backup to a local hard disk. Runs fine from cron.
Regards, Lew Wolfgang
Another neat feature is that as long as you keep doing the differential backups (don't start over), you can restore any file to its state a/o any backup date. Really useful if you clobber a file and don't notice it for a couple of backups. Don Henson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stan Goodman wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 00:47:20 Sandy Drobic wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.
I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup. Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.
The initial setup is rather straight-forward.
What software do you suggest for doing this? That is what is foremost on my mind at this stage.
Stan, At home I have an old file server running 10.0 and all you need is rsync that is already installed on your system. I just back up the data I need to protect. Mostly family pictures and family videos, etc... as well as my /home directory where all the stuff I have squirreled away over the years sits. I also have the home server pull a remote copy of my office files to provide a remote backup in case the building burns down. I do it this way: The server in question spins 3 250G drives with sda being the drive with the OS install and the primary copy of the data. I use rsync to pull from the office and then use rsync again to mirror the data to sdb and sdc (triple redundant). At the office I do the same thing with local mirrors there as well. There is nothing special about this other than it works for me. The way I set up rsync is to set up a primary script that calls rsync which then reads a second file to get a list of directories to back up. That way I just add or delete files I want backed up in the second file. The primary rsync script for local backup, named "rsynclocal", is - are you ready: #!/bin/bash rsync -avr --files-from=/home/david/Documents/scripts/localfiles / /data/storage/local rsync -av --delete /home/samba/computer /data/storage (There are only 2 lines in case word wrap breaks it) The first rsync call says "-avr" (a) copy and preserve file and directory user and ownership, (v) verbose output (so I see what took place in my email from cron) (r) ** required for recursive copy WHEN reading input files from a second file. Normally (a) implies recursive EXCEPT when sourcing input from a second file. The "--files-from=/home/david/Documents/scripts/localfiles" says read what to copy from that file. The "/" says use the root directory as the base for the file and directories contained in "localfiles" and "/data/storage/local" says use that as the base for the target locations where the files and directories will be copied to. sdb is mounted as /data/media sdc is mounted as /data/storage The contents of "localfiles" is simply: /home/david/Documents /home/samba/egw3111 Which is just says take my Documents directory and the second directory and back them up. The second line with --delete included in the command line just says do the backup as normal, but delete any files at the backup location that I have deleted from the primary data files. The second script I have for the photos and videos is simply: #!/bin/bash rsync -avr --files-from=/home/david/Documents/scripts/mediafiles / /data/storage/ Where media files is currently: /data/media Here we are simply mirroring the photos and videos on sdb (/data/media) to sdc (/data/storage). In its present form, there is no reason to have it split as it would be simpler just to do it all from the rsyncmedia script, but I never know where my wife is going to save pictures to so I keep the flexibility. In my opinion for local or remote backup, rsync is the only way to go. It's fast as heck, supports file differencing (this allows the 8 Gig I backup from work to be checked and pulled over a 256K upstream connection in about 10 minutes or less because it is only pulling the changed portions of files that averages 10-20 meg per day. rsync is well documented and put out by the same folks that give us samba. (see http://rsync.samba.org/ ) With just a little or no effort and a little time to learn, you can set up a backup scheme for anything in minutes. cron runs the whole operation from simple entries in "crontab -e" (I use root's crontab to avoid any permission problems) The crontab entries are simply: 0 4 * * * /home/david/Documents/scripts/rsyncwork 15 4 * * * /home/david/Documents/scripts/rsynclocal 30 4 * * * /home/david/Documents/scripts/rsyncmedia I still use the same old script for pulling the work files that I put together years ago before I had a clue about shell programming (it will be apparent from the file). I use secure key authentication to automate to remote login/data exchange. The script I use for work, that has basic logging and produces a brief email to me is (for the sake of completeness): #!/bin/bash DATE=`date` echo $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log echo --- starting backup of workfiles >> /home/david/rsync.log echo --- the work files to be backed up are: >> /home/david/rsync.log cat /home/david/Documents/scripts/workfiles >> /home/david/rsync.log #if /usr/bin/rsync -rze ssh --delete --files-from=/home/david/Documents/scripts/workfiles david@rbpllc.com:/home/samba/ /home/samba/law if /usr/bin/rsync -arze ssh --delete --files-from=/home/david/Documents/scripts/workfiles david@rbpllc.com:/home/samba/ /home/samba/law then echo .... Rankin Law Firm backup ------------- [OK] >> /home/david/rsync.log DATE=`date` echo .... Backup completed at $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log # echo Backup complete at `date` on nemesis | mail -s "backup complete on `date`" david@nemesis else echo .... Rankin Law Firm backup ------------- [Failed] >> /home/david/rsync.log DATE=`date` echo .... Backup failed at $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log # echo Backup failed at `date` on nemesis | mail -s "backup failed on `date`" david@nemesis fi echo --- starting backup of work web site files >> /home/david/rsync.log echo --- the web site files to be backed up are: >> /home/david/rsync.log cat /home/david/Documents/scripts/workwebfiles >> /home/david/rsync.log if /usr/bin/rsync -aze ssh --delete david@rbpllc.com:/srv/www/vhosts /home/david/Documents/bonza_backup/srv/www then echo .... Web Site backup ------------- [OK] >> /home/david/rsync.log DATE=`date` echo .... Backup completed at $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log # echo Backup complete at `date` on nemesis | mail -s "backup complete on `date`" david@nemesis else echo .... Web Site backup ------------- [Failed] >> /home/david/rsync.log DATE=`date` echo .... Backup failed at $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log # echo Backup failed at `date` on nemesis | mail -s "backup failed on `date`" david@nemesis fi echo --- starting backup of david/Mail >> /home/david/rsync.log if /usr/bin/rsync -aze ssh --delete david@rbpllc.com:/home/david/Mail/ /home/david/Documents/bonza_backup/Mail then echo .... david/Mail backup ------------- [OK] >> /home/david/rsync.log DATE=`date` echo .... Backup completed at $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log # echo Backup complete at `date` on nemesis | mail -s "backup complete on `date`" david@nemesis else echo .... david/Mail backup ------------- [Failed] >> /home/david/rsync.log DATE=`date` echo .... Backup failed at $DATE >> /home/david/rsync.log # echo Backup failed at `date` on nemesis | mail -s "backup failed on `date`" david@nemesis fi The workfiles are simply: office rankin joint/rankinguillory joint/rankinbertin joint/rankinallen joint/rga forms computer/hardware computer/software closed/rankin closed/rb closed/rg egwfiles/backup egwfiles/mydms scans and workweb files are: bertin drr rlf txu As you can see, rsync can be a basic or robust as you want to make it and it is absolutely simple to learn. Just play with rsync from the command line until you have it doing what you want and then just throw the working command line in a script file and add a crontab entry and you are done. Just check you email the next day for the warm fuzzy that it worked and then forget about it. Burn a DVD or two every so often to prevent against the worst and your done. The only addition I would make to what I do is to add a line or two that bzips a current snapshot of the backup in case the primary copy of the data got fried and it daisy chained through the rsync system corrupting the backup copies as well. That's what the DVD's you burned of the data are for. Now that I'm thinking about it, I guess I better go burn a couple DVD's. Have fun. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
For safety reasons It still recommend external hardware. Software is a matter completely different. There are lots of good and better software packages out their. However, I did not find anything that satisfied my needs (I need to exclude ans sometimes include directories/file type and even sometimes change user). So, I wrote a bash script with a specification input file to get the job done. Due to speed issues, I am thinking of converting this to C to get some speed improvements when I use the --mirror option. Still, if you use a straight forward backup, cp wile do also. Again, be warned to use a second HDD within the existing system. If your Power Supply burns out, your backup is bound to be destroyed too. KR, Frans de Boer. On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 23:47 +0200, Sandy Drobic wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.
I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.
Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.
The initial setup is rather straight-forward.
-- Sandy
List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Sandy Drobic wrote:
Stan Goodman wrote:
Use a second hdd and rsnapshot. It is cheap, reliable, effective, will give redundant backups and you can run it as a cronjob, meaning that you won't have to do it manually.
The initial setup is rather straight-forward.
What? rsnapshot took all the fun out of writing the rsync backups yourself and automated it! This world is just getting too slick. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-03-31 at 00:15 +0300, Stan Goodman wrote:
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.
I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.
To DVD, "dar". To an external HD via USB, rsync and the variants they have already told you. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH8DmltTMYHG2NR9URAlcYAJ9Zk+t65mlrMGWJF4yAnyYJzdHEwACfVl7R XcmeIo4k0vvgvQwlGL1Y8sk= =nPNc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The Monday 2008-03-31 at 00:15 +0300, Stan Goodman wrote:
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.
I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.
To DVD, "dar".
To an external HD via USB, rsync and the variants they have already told you.
Cheers for an external USB hard drive. Boo for the Rsync. Rsync is NOT a good backup tool. Backups should be a point in time image of the file system. Rsync wants to match changes on a file by file basis, which means if you delete a file rsync dutifully deletes your backup of that file. Hello? Better to use something that can compress files and thereby allow multiple backup images of the file system. I use BRU for this. I pay for it. Its worth it. I back up to a USB drive, but it can also drive most tape drives on the market. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The Monday 2008-03-31 at 00:15 +0300, Stan Goodman wrote:
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.
I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.
To DVD, "dar".
To an external HD via USB, rsync and the variants they have already told you.
Cheers for an external USB hard drive.
Boo for the Rsync.
Rsync is NOT a good backup tool. Backups should be a point in time image of the file system. Rsync wants to match changes on a file by file basis, which means if you delete a file rsync dutifully deletes your backup of that file.
Did you use the --backup option? -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-03-30 at 18:48 -0700, John Andersen wrote:
Cheers for an external USB hard drive.
Boo for the Rsync.
Rsync is NOT a good backup tool. Backups should be a point in time image of the file system. Rsync wants to match changes on a file by file basis, which means if you delete a file rsync dutifully deletes your backup of that file.
Hello?
Read the man, man. Rsync can be used to make "differential" backups, having several sets like hourly, daily, whatever, each only using space for the difference. Of course, you have to script it or somehow enter the proper command sequence and parameters. Or, use one of the readily existing solutions which have been already mentioned, which in fact are based around rsync. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH8EratTMYHG2NR9URAqRgAJ4qF3f3yQVyzzX3UydZtq51YQ8ADwCfYXLu T4vIQw+cLLgrE+yfm8DoPo8= =V2RK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The Monday 2008-03-31 at 00:15 +0300, Stan Goodman wrote:
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.
I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.
To DVD, "dar".
To an external HD via USB, rsync and the variants they have already told you.
Cheers for an external USB hard drive.
Boo for the Rsync.
Rsync is NOT a good backup tool. Backups should be a point in time image of the file system. Rsync wants to match changes on a file by file basis, which means if you delete a file rsync dutifully deletes your backup of that file.
Hello?
That's why you should use rdiff-backup instead of rsync. With rdiff-backup, you can restore that deleted file as long as you haven't started over.
Better to use something that can compress files and thereby allow multiple backup images of the file system.
rdiff-backup is differential, i.e. it saves changes to files. This makes for a very efficient use of storage space, much better than simple compression.
I use BRU for this. I pay for it. Its worth it.
I back up to a USB drive, but it can also drive most tape drives on the market.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Stan Goodman wrote:
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.
I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.
At the moment I use my a bash script to tar to a DVD which I put together after my tape unit died. While this has rescued me from the effects of a hardware failure in the past in that I did not loose any data, the recovery process was not smooth. This did prompt me to review the options then. Many on the list use rsync and rsnaphop to backup to an external hardware device. Based on personal experiences as a system admin I would regard this as an approach that has a couple of potential flaws. I would personally be a bit wary of relying completely on a USB based external hard drive as a sole place to backup data, backup to a network device or a caddy based device, with at least two independent locations would be much more preferable. I have had the experience of hardware failure during a backup and lost both backup and source data as a consequence. As I was using removable media I could go back to an earlier backup, but with a single hard drive life might become the wrong kind of interesting. There are ways to mitigate the impact of hardware failure (e.g. RAID), but these do not cope with software related issues. The option of buying more hard drives to cover this leads one to the scenario that one has more hard drive capacity to contain backup data than that actually been used to work with (a situation for a home based scenario that is faintly ridiculous). In a non-home environment the multiple location option this is obviously much more viable. If have looked at KDar/Dar and felt that these did not really work very well as a Tar/Star alternative. The Ghost/image based approach is good for system replication where you need to clone machines, but limited as a backup solution. Bacula and amanda are both good tape orientated solutions (though the former is slightly eccentric and the latter industry strength with all that entails). Seagate did use to supply a Linux version of Tapeware with their tape units but the last time I checked this the 64 bit version was a liability. In many situations a solution that allows for recovery of a file that got deleted in error (or corrupted) for one reason or another way back when, is as useful as a solution that offers a full data recovery in the event of a system failure. For home use a data management tool which provides for both eventualities on removable media does have a place. With double sided DVDs and the end of the high capacity optical media wars this approach looks more attractive. I am working on it :-) - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH8K2LasN0sSnLmgIRAkECAJ4j+xi40HFBxdnn4ZyuwDV1+IN00wCgyVz9 rX2v/Z0fvE88apClQxYcw4U= =9LZm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
G T Smith a écrit :
In many situations a solution that allows for recovery of a file that got deleted in error (or corrupted
best solution I see is * backup on an external HDD (I have bough an usb<>IDE device just for that) * burn dvd's for home users, most volume data are photos or videos, so sending copies to all the family is both a goos way to be fair and to have remote backups copies :-) don't forget fire is the worst possible danger as it may destruct all the computer room jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 jdd sur free wrote:
G T Smith a écrit :
In many situations a solution that allows for recovery of a file that got deleted in error (or corrupted
best solution I see is
* backup on an external HDD (I have bough an usb<>IDE device just for that) * burn dvd's
for home users, most volume data are photos or videos, so sending copies to all the family is both a goos way to be fair and to have remote backups copies :-)
don't forget fire is the worst possible danger as it may destruct all the computer room
jdd
You forgot the other... theft.... External HDD + DVD archives is one of the alternatives... then the main problem is tracking file versions and locations, not easy if you have 200k files and multiple files versions and copies of those versions... I may be being a bit paranoid but if I went for a HDD based solution it would be a remote server or a caddy based option... my experience with USB based devices does not make me inclined to rely on them for something critically important, they tend to be more likely to go AWOL when you really need them... - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH8LfUasN0sSnLmgIRAg4uAKD0bVUtNNDw7j05JlQWi3DQQdYm8ACg7Spe kYx9yLBarBuq1XqOZ1glB8s= =ENPT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
G T Smith a écrit :
I may be being a bit paranoid but if I went for a HDD based solution it would be a remote server or a caddy based option... my experience with USB based devices does not make me inclined to rely on them for something critically important, they tend to be more likely to go AWOL when you really need them...
?? I use the very same HDD as on usual hardware, and keep the hdd without interface (sort of large usb keys :-)) jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 jdd sur free wrote:
G T Smith a écrit :
I may be being a bit paranoid but if I went for a HDD based solution it would be a remote server or a caddy based option... my experience with USB based devices does not make me inclined to rely on them for something critically important, they tend to be more likely to go AWOL when you really need them...
?? I use the very same HDD as on usual hardware, and keep the hdd without interface (sort of large usb keys :-))
jdd
Yep... but with the situation that at the device end you usually have a bit of hardware which does a USB -> ATAPI/IDE/PATA/SATA translation... so you have at least one (possibly more) level(s) of translation... with additional power paraphernalia... and all which goes with it... For a laptop or desktop where you have no additional slots one obviously has no choice but otherwise I would look at alternative approaches... With a caddy one just has an ATAPI/IDE/PATA/SATA link to the hardware on your box with no additional wires and other bits and pieces... I am aware that hot plugging a caddy drive may be problematic... (the only real complaint I have had with caddies is for some reason suppliers tend to only supply one caddy per mount unit and they seem to be a little more difficult to get hold of now... ) I am a simple kind of chap that tends to prefer things with fewer things that can go wrong, I rather prefer KISS solutions... - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH8Nf1asN0sSnLmgIRAvcZAKDZIRjKwkqfpwr+eryefbpiMRJZRwCg0XMc 7vA552OFVKjuizJrkmlQudc= =orwV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-03-31 at 13:24 +0100, G T Smith wrote:
Yep... but with the situation that at the device end you usually have a bit of hardware which does a USB -> ATAPI/IDE/PATA/SATA translation... so you have at least one (possibly more) level(s) of translation... with additional power paraphernalia... and all which goes with it... For a laptop or desktop where you have no additional slots one obviously has no choice but otherwise I would look at alternative approaches...
You can use external eSATA boxes. I have one that has both USB and eSATA plugs. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH8N5OtTMYHG2NR9URAr6kAJ4z4SFkJrLh3vRwprJWwE/0+eyH5gCfciNA Z1nSvdmX2ZH/oe3vrBFFzOY= =Tmzl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 10:36 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:
G T Smith a écrit :
In many situations a solution that allows for recovery of a file that got deleted in error (or corrupted
best solution I see is
* backup on an external HDD (I have bough an usb<>IDE device just for that) * burn dvd's CD's or DVD's are not suited well for long term storage Wasn't that tested some years ago on TOM's H.G. ??? Much decay after five years afair.
Magneto storage, like tapes or a number of external HD's is the best sollution. Mind you that HD's are not very fond of high temperatures or G-forces, and should be switched off & disconnected directly after macking a backup.
for home users, most volume data are photos or videos, so sending copies to all the family is both a goos way to be fair and to have remote backups copies :-)
Someone may photoshop your wedding foto's ;-)))
don't forget fire is the worst possible danger as it may destruct all the computer room
Don't forget dust, water and un-authourized access (wife, kids: nice HDD, i just needed one for my school project) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hans Witvliet a écrit :
CD's or DVD's are not suited well for long term storage Wasn't that tested some years ago on TOM's H.G. ??? Much decay after five years afair.
Magneto storage, like tapes or a number of external HD's is the best sollution.
any kind of backup support *must* be copied at least every 4 years on new support. I am just (right now) backing my svcd/dvd from 2004 to a hard drive (and it's a nighmare, nothing can copy exactly a vcd!). Remember, 4 years ago? I had *no* dvd writer, what was the HDD size? 40Go?? at what price? in a year or two, I will have to backup all this on bluray :-) don't forget new support are much bigger than old. I can make room for all my video collection on only one 2.5" 160Gb drive of course, I *don't trash* the cd's!! my first audio cd (goldber variations by Glen gould) is still alive a pleasant to listen :-))) jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-03-31 at 19:53 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:
any kind of backup support *must* be copied at least every 4 years on new support.
I have backup sets made circa 1980 on 60..80 flopies (the under 1 Mb size), still in working condition. The computer was an 8086 and I used PC Backup from Central Point Software. It was reliable and fast; we don't have the like of it nowdays. Nowdays, you can't even buy a box of 10 disketes and be sure that all of them work for a week - even if they are from a reliable brand. Reliable, durable, backup: use ink on paper! It lasts centuries. That's proven reliability! :-p - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH8TqWtTMYHG2NR9URAjzKAJ4jPcrL7uNXKcY7OKrbc44brr0idACeLT8j uhLAQfYWsYJ1SPCJYYJEhcc= =CZqG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 March 2008 11:28, Hans Witvliet wrote:
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 10:36 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:
G T Smith a écrit :
In many situations a solution that allows for recovery of a file that got deleted in error (or corrupted
best solution I see is
* backup on an external HDD (I have bough an usb<>IDE device just for that) * burn dvd's
CD's or DVD's are not suited well for long term storage Wasn't that tested some years ago on TOM's H.G. ??? Much decay after five years afair.
It seems useful to distinguish backup, which is a prophylaxis against unexpected data loss, and archiving, which is for preserving a historical record of your files. One often need not archive nearly as much data as one would want to be able to recover after a hardware, software or human error.
...
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 March 2008 11:39, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 11:28, Hans Witvliet wrote:
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 10:36 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:
G T Smith a écrit :
In many situations a solution that allows for recovery of a file that got deleted in error (or corrupted
best solution I see is
* backup on an external HDD (I have bough an usb<>IDE device just for that) * burn dvd's
CD's or DVD's are not suited well for long term storage Wasn't that tested some years ago on TOM's H.G. ??? Much decay after five years afair.
It seems useful to distinguish backup, which is a prophylaxis against unexpected data loss, and archiving, which is for preserving a historical record of your files. One often need not archive nearly as much data as one would want to be able to recover after a hardware, software or human error.
... And conversely, one need not expect backup data to have nearly th longevity of archival storage. RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> wrote:
It seems useful to distinguish backup, which is a prophylaxis against unexpected data loss, and archiving, which is for preserving a historical record of your files. One often need not archive nearly as much data as one would want to be able to recover after a hardware, software or human error.
... And conversely, one need not expect backup data to have nearly th longevity of archival storage.
But what qualifies as archival storage these days? There really is nothing except saving it on hard drives, and even those don't retain data forever. Even if they did, will be even be able to cable those drives up in 5 years as SATA pushes the last ide interface out the door? Nothing you print on any consumer grade photo printer is expected to last even 10 years. We risk being the first generation with no shoe-box full of photos to pass down to our children. Instead we will give them a box full of disk of various media non of which can be read because the drives are no longer made or the media itself has deteriorated. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> wrote:
It seems useful to distinguish backup, which is a prophylaxis against unexpected data loss, and archiving, which is for preserving a historical record of your files. One often need not archive nearly as much data as one would want to be able to recover after a hardware, software or human error.
... And conversely, one need not expect backup data to have nearly th longevity of archival storage.
But what qualifies as archival storage these days? There really is nothing except saving it on hard drives, and even those don't retain data forever. Even if they did, will be even be able to cable those drives up in 5 years as SATA pushes the last ide interface out the door?
Nothing you print on any consumer grade photo printer is expected to last even 10 years.
We risk being the first generation with no shoe-box full of photos to pass down to our children. Instead we will give them a box full of disk of various media non of which can be read because the drives are no longer made or the media itself has deteriorated.
Which is one reason why I still use film.
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John Andersen a écrit :
We risk being the first generation with no shoe-box full of photos to pass down to our children. Instead we will give them a box full of disk of various media non of which can be read because the drives are no longer made or the media itself has deteriorated.
for such things (photos, videos), the best way is the net... I share my photos on my own web site and videos on youtube or dailymotion, this is an excellent backup jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 11:39, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Monday 31 March 2008 11:28, Hans Witvliet wrote:
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 10:36 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:
G T Smith a écrit :
In many situations a solution that allows for recovery of a file that got deleted in error (or corrupted best solution I see is
It seems useful to distinguish backup, which is a prophylaxis against unexpected data loss, and archiving, which is for preserving a historical record of your files. One often need not archive nearly as much data as one would want to be able to recover after a hardware, software or human error.
... And conversely, one need not expect backup data to have nearly th longevity of archival storage.
RRS
Agreed, However, an issue with a snapshot style of backup is the assumption that the material to be backed up is valid. While this may the case with a catastrophic failure, it may not be the case if the source material has been degrading over time due to hardware, software, or human error issues. (Hardware based degradation can be covered by using RAID to some extent, but the others not at all). If the snapshop recovery fails to recover data, recovery from an archive of last good copies is useful to have as a fallback option. In my experience to solely rely on one mechanism is inviting that mechanism to fail. - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH8fk3asN0sSnLmgIRArOOAKC6tW4rRwHAwWrjWpAhg7FUpxl3AACgwgi9 /a3fYTctDGqgGoFUHoIO/y0= =H3Zv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-03-31 at 10:23 +0100, G T Smith wrote:
Many on the list use rsync and rsnaphop to backup to an external hardware device. Based on personal experiences as a system admin I would regard this as an approach that has a couple of potential flaws. I would personally be a bit wary of relying completely on a USB based external hard drive as a sole place to backup data, backup to a network device or a caddy based device, with at least two independent locations would be much more preferable.
I have had the experience of hardware failure during a backup and lost both backup and source data as a consequence. As I was using removable media I could go back to an earlier backup, but with a single hard drive life might become the wrong kind of interesting. There are ways to mitigate the impact of hardware failure (e.g. RAID), but these do not cope with software related issues.
The option of buying more hard drives to cover this leads one to the scenario that one has more hard drive capacity to contain backup data than that actually been used to work with (a situation for a home based scenario that is faintly ridiculous). In a non-home environment the multiple location option this is obviously much more viable.
Yes, but it appears that is cheaper to have the capacity on external HDs on USB boxes, than to backup to DVDs, even if you have two or three disks. And they can be reused and rotated, similar to tapes. Plus, it is much faster! You don't have to be there changing DVDs. You just program it and leave.
If have looked at KDar/Dar and felt that these did not really work very well as a Tar/Star alternative. The Ghost/image based approach is good
I don't really like tar and similar things: they are easier to break, specially if compressed; and recovery from a large archive is slow and cumbersome. Pity rsync can not compress. You can use compressed DVDs, by the way. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH8N3XtTMYHG2NR9URAtw6AJ9PKVQE/6zO7lJDkZ5EkVaRm/899wCdE8fj u72GSgY4M1S+zJkn0AN+JPM= =E54r -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. a écrit :
Plus, it is much faster! You don't have to be there changing DVDs. You just program it and leave.
one drive can accomodate all the backup, so making a second copy is just a matter of two clics. onmly inconvenience is that it's difficult to send by mail :-) jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-03-31 at 15:46 +0200, Nick Zeljkovic wrote:
onmly inconvenience is that it's difficult to send by mail :-)
jdd
Unless sent by as per RFC 1149. Yes, long latency but should do =)
ROTFL! X'-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH8PVTtTMYHG2NR9URAphRAKCGbscQkQyNxL7kLmXeg7UzRp/ZzACaA4TS nOcO3LDYP77OQTfriE+zrWA= =uTFq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Monday 2008-03-31 at 10:23 +0100, G T Smith wrote:
Yes, but it appears that is cheaper to have the capacity on external HDs on USB boxes, than to backup to DVDs, even if you have two or three disks. And they can be reused and rotated, similar to tapes.
Plus, it is much faster! You don't have to be there changing DVDs. You just program it and leave.
Cost is an often stated factor, however with removable media one has a potentially infinite storage capacity which can be adjusted in relatively small increments at a small progressive cost, whereas with hard drives one the integration of a new drive into a backup system requires a little more effort and a more significant initial outlay. Optical media take up relatively little physical space have a relatively good shelf life. The 4-5 year potential lifespan is probably adequate for archival purposes as one has the option of migrating the contexts before the media hits end of live. External USB based hard drive units come with a lot of additional baggage which one will not get with a caddy based approach. One also has the additional benefit that one has access to the drive diagnostics, (Using a dodgy drive to backup to is probably not going to be helpful), and is probably bit more storage friendly than a based USB device. I am not arguing against the use of hard drive for the purpose, merely suggesting that an USB based external device is possibly not the best option for this route. (eSata has been mentioned and it this stage I am in no position to comment on this as an option) Speed is more down to the mechanism used, what I am working on at moments spends 90% of the time building and documenting an archive and only about 10% of the time actually creating and burning an image of that archive to DVD. What does complicate matters somewhat with a pure file based backup mechanism is that for some applications merely replacing the files may not be adequate, (mysql, subversion are two I can immediately think of for which it is probably preferable to use their own backup and restore processes to backup and recover data than merely copy the physical files). Mail archives can present some intriguing problems (I have before now found every mail duplicated on a client after a server been restored which was more than a bit of a nuisance).
If have looked at KDar/Dar and felt that these did not really work very well as a Tar/Star alternative. The Ghost/image based approach is good
I don't really like tar and similar things: they are easier to break, specially if compressed; and recovery from a large archive is slow and cumbersome.
Pity rsync can not compress.
I have a work round for compression and tar, rather than compress the archive as whole (which I believe is the default behaviour) I have a prototype perl class library that compresses files on an individual basis and tars them.
You can use compressed DVDs, by the way.
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
- -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH8flDasN0sSnLmgIRAsD3AKCgHjGSV2snnfS63RVX/ahKU4eA+wCbB097 Flh6uS5+jWdwTLrq57FQh6c= =NpA0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hello Stan, If you have to manage one system only with not too much data on it then linux native backup commands "dump" and "restore" will do it for you. The catch is however, that you need to be in Single User mode to do it to avoid any running programs and any open files including locks. So let say if you have 160 GB inter HDD partitions as /, /var, /home, for eg. then you can use dump to individually backup this on a removable USB HDD of similar capacity with or without compression. This is pretty straight forward and much safer as you will creating dump files for each partitions on removable media from which you can individually back then on Rewritable DVD to keep updation the future incremental or Full backups if you need double protection. If in case your internal HDD crashes, then all you have to do is boot from Linux Bootdisk, go to rescue mode, partition the new HDD and mount it and start restoring it from / first and then subsequent partitions mounted under the new root and so forth. Once done just do a grub install and that's it. The dump and restore documentation is pretty straight forward and there is no need to install any third part softwares for native things. I use this to manage my personal systems as well as the primary server in my office. Hope this helps. Regards NS PS: dump can also write on Tapes. :) On Monday 31 March 2008 02:45:21 am Stan Goodman wrote:
I would be grateful for advice about backup software appropriate for my situation, and for remarks people using such utilities, including what to avoid. I can see that there are several packages available through YaST, but it would be helpful to know what others think about them and about relative advantages.
I have only one Linux system here, so network capability is not important. I do not have a tape drive, but would be read carefully any remarks about whether I need one. If not, then it would have to be something capable of bridging DVDs for a total backup, and probably CDs for incremental backup.
-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2008-03-31 at 17:52 +0530, Neijing Sahni wrote:
Hello Stan, If you have to manage one system only with not too much data on it then linux native backup commands "dump" and "restore" will do it for you. The catch is however, that you need to be in Single User mode to do it to avoid any running programs and any open files including locks.
Unfortunately, dump doesn't work on all linux filesystems. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH8N65tTMYHG2NR9URAt7DAJ0d1o/l9ifdw2tIaeFtJ4PfjxR7rQCfSpsP FLV/m+k89XPqv8RRSjBZJUI= =08i+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (19)
-
Carlos E. R. -
David C. Rankin -
Donald D Henson -
Frans de Boer -
G T Smith -
Hans Witvliet -
Harald Mueller-Ney -
James Knott -
jdd sur free -
John Andersen -
Kai Ponte -
Lew Wolfgang -
Neijing Sahni -
Nick Zeljkovic -
Peter J. P-N -
Randall R Schulz -
Sam Clemens -
Sandy Drobic -
Stan Goodman