On 27-Nov-01 Alexandr Malusek wrote:

...

Note that the default "which" in SuSE is the bash alias

$ alias which alias which='type -p'

The old "which" command is still there:

$ /usr/bin/which ls /bin/ls

Would someone from SuSE please explain what the point of

particular alias is?

Since 'which' is there in its own right, why steal its name for something else?

This strikes me as comparable with the silliness of the default behaviour of 'less' (due to a daft default '/usr/bin/lessopen.sh' file which makes altogether too many assumptions about what the user wants to see -- i.e. whoever put that together has

[ ** WARNING -- THIS HAS A LONG THREAD ** ] this their own

idea of what users should be seeing, which is mostly a long way from what I usually want to see; and in the process makes it tricky for users who want the "usual" behaviour to restore it, indeed to find out what's happening).

Inspired by Alexandr's note above, I did 'alias' (on 7.2), with the following results:

alias +='pushd .' alias -='popd' alias ..='cd ..' alias ...='cd ../..' alias A:='echo -e '\''Error: There is no such thing as a drive A: in Un*x!\n Use mtools, mount or autofs to access your floppy.'\''' alias C:='echo -e '\''Error: There is no such thing as a drive C: in Un*x!\n Your harddisk should already be mounted (via /etc/fstab or autofs).'\''' alias beep='echo -en "\x07"' alias cd..='echo '\''Error: Try: cd ..'\''' alias chkdsk='echo -e '\''Error: Your filesystems are checked on bootup.\n If you want to do it manually, use fsck.\n Use df and mount for an overview of your disks. alias copy='echo '\''Error: Try the command: cp -piv'\''' alias del='echo '\''Error: Try the command: rm -iv'\''' alias dir='ls -l' alias dos2unix='recode ibmpc..lat1' alias format='echo -e '\''Error: The D*S concept of formatting a disk is screwed.\n Maybe you want to create a filesystem? Use mkfs

I agree. SuSE should stop making assumptions like that. The user should decide. then.'\'''

alias l='ls -alF' alias la='ls -la' alias ll='ls -l' alias ls='ls $LS_OPTIONS' alias ls-l='ls -l' alias md='mkdir -p' alias mem='echo '\''Error: Try the command: free'\''' alias move='echo '\''Error: Try the command: mv -iv'\''' alias o='less' alias rd='rmdir' alias rehash='hash -r' alias unix2dos='recode lat1..ibmpc' alias unmount='echo "Error: Try the command: umount"' alias ver='echo '\''Error: Try the command: uname -a'\''' alias which='type -p'

Of these, "+", "-", "..", "...", "beep", perhaps "dir", "dos2unix", "l", "la", "ll", "md", "rd", "rehash" and "unix2dos" strike me as (more or less) useful abbreviations; though some people might prefer to assign some of them to something slightly different.

I see no point to "o". As to "which", see above.

Now for "A:", "C:". Well, sorry, but I do have "A:", "C:" and also "D:". Or, more precisely, "/A:", "/C:" and "/D:" --

are mount points for, respectively, the floppy drive and for certain DOS partitions on the hard drives, and are so

Yes....I must admit that I completely hacked my "alias" section to death. I have NO NEED for DOS alises. Since I spend the majority of my time (80%) at the console, I can find them extremely annoying at times. I think SuSE need to re-think their alias sections... --Thomas Adam A Student at Southampton Uni :-) these present

in /etc/fstab. So it is easy to "mount /A:", "cd /C:", etc.;

[ > it's a useful mnemonic for anyone, and (in my experience)

is helpful for DOS users to get used to. ]

Which also suggests that it would be more to the point to have commands (aliases or command files) "A:", "C:" etc, where "A:" would do "mount /A: ; cd /A:", while "C:" would do "cd /C: and, if "/A:" mounted, unmount it." That would actually be _useful_, instead of the really pointless sneering at "ignorant DOS users" which the above aliases generate -- "Oh, you said 'A:', you must be a DOS user but look, now you're using **UNIX** which is superior and you really MUSTN'T use those nasty commands that you've been used to and which tell us all where you've come from."

The same point about sneering at "DOS users" applies to "copy", "del", "format", "mem" and "move". Whoever took

trouble to compose these useless aliases could have taken

trouble to assign aliases which did something _useful_ instead -- even something as simple as "alias copy='cp'" or "alias mem='free'" would be worth while. (A possible exception would be "format", which if used at all should be a script which would only work if called as "format A:"; there IS a point in having UNIX commands which emulate such DOS commands as are relevant to UNIX).

I can see the point of the "chkdsk" alias (though might have expressed it differently); probably someone who has an urge to type "chkdsk" would get their fingers burned if they dipped them into "fsck".

And if someone's going to take the trouble to compose the above equally pointless alias for "unmount" then, again, they might instead take the trouble to make it straightforward and useful: "alias unmount='umount'" (it's a common enough typo; I recall that either Brian Kernighan, or Dennis Ritchie, when asked what he thought was the worst mistake he had made while developing C/UNIX, replied "leaving the final 'e' off 'creat'").

Dear SuSE: Please stop doing this silly stuff. Much of what I've criticised above is on the level of practical jokes in a student computer lab.

It gets in the way of "real" users. As it happens, I had not done a "which ls" and hadn't noticed this. However, if I had, I would have had the same initial reaction: that something was wrong; and it might have taken me quite a bit of time and

to track it down (it doesn't immediately leap to the mind, even of an experienced user, that a command which doesn't do what it's supposed to do might actually be an alias instead).

It's totally unnecessary to alias an existing command to something quite different. Commands are commands. If nothing else, "man which" gives false information; new users getting used to UNIX will only get confused and deterred. Frankly, I expect commands to do what they're "officially" supposed to do, not what some interfering SuSE apparatchik has seen fit to change them into. All the more so if the new alias doesn't behave as "man <command>" describes. If you want a command to do something different (though related), then for God's sake give it a different name: it's no more trouble than aliasing the original command to something which, arguably, is simply wrong because it doesn't do what it's supposed to.

And, as for DOS users: Please don't treat them like low

I've known quite a few become very competent Linux users, even if they sometimes retain a preference for where they originated. They will only feel insulted by the ouput of the likes of "copy" or "del". Remember that people who use computers a lot, be they DOS or UNIX, have a tendency to type "on autopilot" when working fast; "alias copy='cp'" would help them. It would also help people coming from the "copy" and "move" world who, otherwise, would take some time to get used to the abbreviations "cp" and "mv" (as I have seen).

I've been sarcastic before about SuSE "Professional". As far as I can see, "Professional" simply means "In contrast with 'Personal', you get a lot more applications which could help you do real work". It does not imply a professional quality to the way the distribution has been created (though of course much of what is on the SuSE CDs is indeed of

quality).

A really professional distribution would quietly create useful aliases which unobtrusively do useful things in a correct and reliable manner (see examples above), and would NOT break the behaviour of things which real professional users expect to behave in a particular way (e.g. because of what they read in the man pages). "Student pranks" are not

Yes, but by doing this, it means that people using Linux are doing so in a "semi" DOS environment, which is wrong in a way, since the two are different. the the trouble life. that professional.

Best wishes to all, Ted.

----------------------------------------------------------

----------

E-Mail: (Ted Harding) Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 167 1972 Date: 27-Nov-01 Time: 15:36:33 ------------------------------ XFMail --------------------

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-

For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e- help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and

unsubscribe@suse.com the

archives at http://lists.suse.com

----------- Thomas Adam ----------- "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- "This is Linux country. If you listen carefully you can hear the sound of Windows rebooting....."