+1 for googlegroups and +1000 for html mails, not that I use html mails but eg. the email client on android has NO way to disable html mail and one can not send to this list easily from the phone.... 2014-03-23 1:56 GMT+02:00 Linda Walsh :

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2014-03-22 11:06, ianseeks wrote:

...

I think you need to add this to the list of reasons of rejection Cutting from an existing valid email and pasting into a new email.

...

...

No, that's not the reason it was rejected, I guess. Look:

...

...

X-MIME-Notice: attachments may have been removed from this message

...

...

It is a multipart message. Only one part was displayed here, but I guess that the next part is html, and thus, duly rejected by the mail server.

----

Carlos -- the cut and paste in the email likely was the cause of the multi-part message being created. I.e. If he cut & pasted from an html formatted message, the software might have tried to keep the original formatting along with sending a text copy. At least Tbird will use text for simple stuff, but if you cut/paste html, it will see the html and depending on config -- will try to send it both ways.

Why don't we move this list to googlegroups?

Their software handles this w/o rejecting the message. -- if the list is set for text only, It will even filter HTML into text. -- not just drop non-text mime alternative part -- which could have been done here.

I.e. if the list SW gets a message with a text & html alternative, the list sw should be smart enough to pick the format it allows and drop the other.

If it can't handle that... googlegroups does...and gg has the benefit of allowing people to read and post via their browser while reading the group as well as handling incoming SMTP emails and either allowing mime & attachments or not as per list policy...

The only thing I think they haven't automated is automatically rewriting emails that use top posting (as some would like) -- not that I have an issue with it, but some people are so rigid about these issues.... getting multiple copies, or whatever, hopefully a fly doesn't land on their nose while they are posting, they might punch themselves.

FWIW, why doesn't suse allow html formatting and attachments -- you'd think they were stuck in the 80's. here we are over 20 years past the introduction and usage of html-email, and we're still stuck with a pre-1990 (25 y/o) text interface... Really makes you want to go out and load suse on your color graphics iphone or android touch device...

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Malcolm wrote:

On Sat 22 Mar 2014 04:56:08 PM CDT, Linda Walsh wrote:

...

Why don't we move this list to googlegroups?

Hi No thanks, gmane works fine for weeding out the cruft.....

If it worked fine, then messages wouldn't be bouncing. I don't call bouncing emails "working fine"... but you may have a different definition... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Hello, On Sun, 23 Mar 2014, Carlos E. R. wrote:

As for my preferences, I would use nntp instead, not email, nor forums.

What's the difference as you're using Thunderbird/Seamonkey for mail? What do you use for NNTP? Anyhow: use a better MUA ;) Like mutt (see non-random sig). FTR: I configured sendmail + mutt once in 2001. Since then, I've been adding little tweaks to my mutt config here and then and there (oh, on 2 "major updates" I think, I had to update a couple of variables[2]. Same with tin[1], for even a longer time. So *bah* :) Oh, and by now, mutt runs with postfix as SMTPD instead of sendmail. Configuration changes required on the mutt side: 0. Prolly won't get any more comfortable for a lazy guy like me :) (well, my seamonkey config has also aged a lot, but IIRC I had to adjust more often. And then there were extensions, that work perfectly but don't allow it in their install.rdf (esp. fun when FF switched versioning schemes). And some don't. *gah* -dnh [1] I maintain a current (patched) version 2.2.0 available in my osc-~, if you osc-link to it, it'll automatically build without my patches. Oh, and using stunnel for ssl-encrypted comms with a user+pw paid usenetserver as I do is a piece of cake as well (ok, it requires a few lines of bash-scripting and a line in /etc/sudoers (plus the one for being allowed to call fetchnews ;)) Speaking of sudoers: I (as a user) can't do squat via sudo, not even if I give the correct password (root's, targetpw is a MUST!) $ sudo ls /root/ root's password: Sorry, user dh is not allowed to execute '/bin/ls /root/' as root on grusum. On the other paw, that, where I do want me to be allowed to execute via sudo (usually aliased: 'alias foo="sudo foo"'), I have the appropriate entries in sudoers with NOPASSWD. [2] prominently documented and the error message was very clear -- "All mail clients suck. This one just sucks less." -- Michael Elkins, circa 1995, about 'mutt' -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2014-03-23 05:01, David Haller wrote:

Hello,

On Sun, 23 Mar 2014, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

As for my preferences, I would use nntp instead, not email, nor forums.

What's the difference as you're using Thunderbird/Seamonkey for mail? What do you use for NNTP?

No, I mean that IMO the best group communication method would be nntp, not email, because it does not require subscribing. You can not get full mail boxes, and you can go back in history and see posts written years ago, way before you "subscribe". But it is not a popular method nowdays. Maybe it has disadvantages, re abuse. Maybe higher server load. Dunno. The forums here do have an nntp gateway, so I actually participate in the openSUSE forums using nntp, and this is wonderful. (with leafnode in the mix)

On the other paw, that, where I do want me to be allowed to

Paw? Are you a kzin? :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2014-03-23 15:33, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2014-03-23 15:15 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:

...

The forums here do have an nntp gateway, so I actually participate in the openSUSE forums using nntp, and this is wonderful.

...

(with leafnode in the mix)

Care to explain for the benefit of those not entirely familiar with the concepts of nntp gateway or leafnode how to access them WRT the particulars of openSUSE? I'd much rather use NNTP than browser to access any forum, all of which are annoying to use at best, built by and for those with perfect vision and high tolerance for popups and inexplicable behavior. The only time I ever find myself on an openSUSE Forum page is as a result of a click on a Google search result.

It does not work with any forum, only with the openSUSE hosted forums. There is a gateway that converts forum posts to nntp, and copies them to an nntp server. Conversely, the same gateway converts the posts that enter via the nntp server, inserting them in the forum database, that uses vbulletin, IIRC. How to access this nntp server is explained in the openSUSE forum FAQ: https://forums.opensuse.org/faq.php?faq=novfor#faq_nntp This gateway is not perfect, there are known problems. The maintenance is limited, so if a developer wants to improve it would be very nice. He would get virtual beer from those of us using that gateway ;-) I feel the same as you, I do not like using forum software. It is awkward, slow... but many people love it. Most newcomers to openSUSE use the forums, not the mail lists. And this nntp gateway does all the difference, it allows people like me to participate efficiently :-) (some opensuse language forums are not hosted by opensuse, but elsewhere, and do not have an nntp gateway. So, I do not participate in teh Spanish forum). As for using leafnode... well, that is... ok, the package info describes it: +++················· Description : Leafnode is a small NNTP server for leaf sites without permanent connections to the Internet. It supports a subset of NNTP and is able to automatically fetch the newsgroups the user reads regularly from the ISP's news server. ·················++- You do not need to use it at all, any nntp client does the work fine. The advantage, for me, is that leafnode downloads nntp posts (triggered by a cron job) to a local storage. Then I point Thunderbird to my local nntp server, instead of the internet one. When I click on a message to read it displays instantly: when I use the opensuse nntp server on internet, I have to wait a second or two, sometimes way more. And it does a better job of caching posts locally than thunderbird does. If you want more details, just ask :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2014-03-23 15:58 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:

On 2014-03-23 15:33, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2014-03-23 15:15 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:

...

...

The forums here do have an nntp gateway, so I actually participate in the openSUSE forums using nntp, and this is wonderful.

...

...

(with leafnode in the mix)

...

Care to explain for the benefit of those not entirely familiar with the concepts of nntp gateway or leafnode how to access them WRT the particulars of openSUSE? I'd much rather use NNTP than browser to access any forum, all of which are annoying to use at best, built by and for those with perfect vision and high tolerance for popups and inexplicable behavior. The only time I ever find myself on an openSUSE Forum page is as a result of a click on a Google search result.

It does not work with any forum, only with the openSUSE hosted forums.

Are you sure "any" and "only" were appropriate word choices? Mozilla.org provides NNTP access to its mailing lists' posts and vice versa.

There is a gateway that converts forum posts to nntp, and copies them to an nntp server. Conversely, the same gateway converts the posts that enter via the nntp server, inserting them in the forum database, that uses vbulletin, IIRC.

How to access this nntp server is explained in the openSUSE forum FAQ:

https://forums.opensuse.org/faq.php?faq=novfor#faq_nntp

This gateway is not perfect, there are known problems. The maintenance is limited, so if a developer wants to improve it would be very nice. He would get virtual beer from those of us using that gateway ;-)

Regardless, I've subscribed to 5 "forums", and sent my first response to one of them.

As for using leafnode... well, that is... ok, the package info describes it:

+++················· Description : Leafnode is a small NNTP server for leaf sites without permanent connections to the Internet. It supports a subset of NNTP and is able to automatically fetch the newsgroups the user reads regularly from the ISP's news server. ·················++-

You do not need to use it at all, any nntp client does the work fine. The advantage, for me, is that leafnode downloads nntp posts (triggered by a cron job) to a local storage. Then I point Thunderbird to my local nntp server, instead of the internet one. When I click on a message to read it displays instantly: when I use the opensuse nntp server on internet, I have to wait a second or two, sometimes way more.

I used to use an app called Changi on OS/2 to do the same thing. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2014-03-24 01:40 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:

Felix Miata wrote:

...

On 2014-03-23 15:58 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:

...

...

It does not work with any forum, only with the openSUSE hosted forums.

...

Are you sure "any" and "only" were appropriate word choices? Mozilla.org provides NNTP access to its mailing lists' posts and vice versa.

But that is not a forum, meaning a web-forum.

Actually Mozilla.org provides three-way access to every approved submission: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Discussion_Forums

Ok, let me try to clarify the phrase: it does not work with any random forum you try. The only forums I know it works are the Novell hosted forums, meaning opensuse.org, suse.org, and maybe another one I don't know which.

I didn't finish my train of thought (at all) well either. I meant to suggest something like s/any/every/ and s/only/[only,few] that I know of/. Too many things going on today here, and three UPS completely down or buzzing needs new battery announcements over and over while waiting on ordered battery arrival with no spares and abundant jerry-rigging to survive the deficit. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun 23 Mar 2014 07:16:09 PM CDT, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

В Sun, 23 Mar 2014 15:15:28 +0100 "Carlos E. R." пишет:

...

On 2014-03-23 05:01, David Haller wrote:

...

Hello,

On Sun, 23 Mar 2014, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

As for my preferences, I would use nntp instead, not email, nor forums.

What's the difference as you're using Thunderbird/Seamonkey for mail? What do you use for NNTP?

No, I mean that IMO the best group communication method would be nntp, not email, because it does not require subscribing. You can not get full mail boxes, and you can go back in history and see posts written years ago, way before you "subscribe".

Only if someone keeps archive. NNTP was not really designed for it - news servers keep limited amount of recent articles and usually expunge articles that expire.

So at the end it depends on good will of server maintainer whether you will find posts written years ago.

Hi The kind folks from TAG keep everything thing from forum creation since there are four forums involved (openSUSE, SUSE, NetIQ and Novell). -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890) openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64) GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.11.10-7-desktop up 16:28, 3 users, load average: 0.18, 0.15, 0.12 CPU Intel® B840@1.9GHz | GPU Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Hello, On Sun, 23 Mar 2014, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-03-23 05:01, David Haller wrote:

...

On Sun, 23 Mar 2014, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

As for my preferences, I would use nntp instead, not email, nor forums.

What's the difference as you're using Thunderbird/Seamonkey for mail? What do you use for NNTP?

No, I mean that IMO the best group communication method would be nntp, not email, because it does not require subscribing.

Well, you need to subscribe to the groups you want to read ;)

You can not get full mail boxes,

But a full news-spool. Esp. if you do it like I do: $ ls -Ald /var/spool/news /data/spool/news drwsr-xr-x 20 news news 552 Mar 20 23:35 /data/spool/news/ lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Feb 23 2012 /var/spool/news -> /data/spool/news/ $ grep news /proc/mounts /dev/loop0 /data/spool/news reiserfs rw,acl,user_xattr,barrier=flush 0 0 $ df -Th /dev/loop0 reiserfs 8.0G 789M 7.3G 10% /data/spool/news

and you can go back in history and see posts written years ago, way before you "subscribe".

http://lists.opensuse.org and various others have archives. lists.o.o back to the very first mails in suse-linux{,-en}@suse.{de,com} (or what was used then as domain).

But it is not a popular method nowdays. Maybe it has disadvantages, re abuse. Maybe higher server load. Dunno.

Well, I think the load is higher with mail. And, as said, the MLs are piped to usenet via gmane (search for gmane.suse.*) and you can post via gmane.

The forums here do have an nntp gateway, so I actually participate in the openSUSE forums using nntp, and this is wonderful.

(with leafnode in the mix)

See above ;) That's also leafnode.

...

On the other paw, that, where I do want me to be allowed to

Paw? Are you a kzin? :-)

Nah. If I imagine myself as anything, it's as Panthera tigris altaica. -dnh -- Rigsby: "How does he do it?" [someone getting all the women] Jane: "[..] You gotta know what buttons to press." Lisbon: "Like we're toasters." Van Pelt: "Like men don't have buttons too." Jane: "Men are like toasters. Women - a little more like accordions." -- The Mentalist - 1x14 - Crimson Casanova -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 27/03/2014 12:42, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

Unless the nntp server uses authentication, but this is rare.

I think this is wrong. ig you use your ISP server you are perfectly identified, if you use gmail or eternal.org, you have to register, but only once for any group the main difference is the way it works: * mail load all the mails and allows reading off line, good for time paid connexion * new only get headers, but do not works if not online, better for dls connect * web forum are best for one on a while question, where you will probably never come again jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

I don't call bouncing emails "working fine"... but you may have a different definition...

Arguably, that is your fault >:-)

How is it my fault? It's OpenSuSE's SW, that is misconfigured. A user tried to cut and paste and post here, and OpenSuse's email SW sent it in plain text and HTML. That's the first point I made. The user didn't "choose" to send to parts, they simply used OpenSuse Software as configured and got shot down for using the software configured for them by the people on this list who you claim don't want HTML email. So why would they configure the email client to send it by default?

Emails with html are intentionally rejected, as the list server could accept them if this was wanted. No need to use googlegroups for that.

Again, you didn't read: "Their software handles this w/o rejecting the message. -- if the list is set for text only, It will even filter HTML into text. -- not just drop non-text mime alternative part -- which could have been done here. " So Open suse goes out of their way to configure their software in a way that their lists will reject it... Is that your claim?? Are you daft?

I happen to agree with that view.

--- It is apparent, that, _you_, need better formatted text, as you aren't getting what I said in plaintext. The point was the list SW could accept the plaintext version of the message they sent, and drop the HTML version instead of rejecting the whole message -- especially since it is this list's membership that has provided the client being used to post.

You want googlegorups? Go ahead, you can fork the lists. The result will be that you get fewer active people on the resulting lists, dividing the community. We did once with one of the lists I subscribe to, so I know.

I didn't say I wanted them. I wanted the features that can be provided.

If you want html like features, you can use the opensuse forums, and these are VERY active. They are very much more active than any mail list here, so that's the future, not html mail lists.

Again, you are missing the big picture. Opensuse's forums can't handle email. Google's SW can seamlessly blend the two so that both groups of people -- those that want text only get text only, and those that want to read on a forum, can do so... It automatically translates from 1 format to the other. Again -- the point was not so much that feature, but the ability to selectively take the ascii version the user sent, without throwing out the whole message.

As for my preferences, I would use nntp instead, not email, nor forums. If you think nntp old fashioned, it does support html, as well.

My email functions like nntp w/r/t groups. They go into a separate location for each group. They are auto-expired after some period of time whether I read them or not. The difference, is that I can control the auto-expiration period, easily, on a per-folder basis and I can create my own streams of data -- combining or separating topics (and that's email -- nothing to do with google groups... ).

- -- Cheers / Saludos,

Please try to understand the point I was making. There are better examples of how to achieve the objectives you want that don't unnecessarily alienate and reject user's emails that were configured to send email, by members of this list (suse-factory) that gets sent in both formats -- yet the members of this list won't accept that format ... You don't find that a bit hypocritical? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2014-03-23 07:57, Linda Walsh wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

I don't call bouncing emails "working fine"... but you may have a different definition...

Arguably, that is your fault >:-)

---

How is it my fault? It's OpenSuSE's SW, that is misconfigured.

A user tried to cut and paste and post here, and OpenSuse's email SW sent it in plain text and HTML.

That's the first point I made. The user didn't "choose" to send to parts, they simply used OpenSuse Software as configured and got shot down for using the software configured for them by the people on this list who you claim don't want HTML email. So why would they configure the email client to send it by default?

Sorry, but the default Thunderbird config comes from upstream, and you can use it anyway you like. It is not preconfigured for this list, but for general use. I just tried to paste html text in this same email, and got it converted instantly to plain text. The html content was destroyed. Things like this happens on many lists. You read the rejection slip, and try again, correcting the "fault".

...

Emails with html are intentionally rejected, as the list server could accept them if this was wanted. No need to use googlegroups for that.

---

Again, you didn't read:

"Their software handles this w/o rejecting the message. -- if the list is set for text only, It will even filter HTML into text. -- not just drop non-text mime alternative part -- which could have been done here. "

Well, I read an explanation of why this was not done, time ago. I don't remember it, and I can't find it. Maybe someone remembers.

So Open suse goes out of their way to configure their software in a way that their lists will reject it... Is that your claim?? Are you daft?

Out of their way? No.

Please try to understand the point I was making. There are better examples of how to achieve the objectives you want that don't unnecessarily alienate and reject user's emails that were configured to send email, by members of this list (suse-factory) that gets sent in both formats -- yet the members of this list won't accept that format ... You don't find that a bit hypocritical?

Actually, I do. Those emails with html, sent by staffers, should be rejected, the same way as our posts with html are rejected. No privileges. Same thing as I hate when emails with big attachments get posted to a list here, when the rules say they are forbidden and automatically rejected. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Anton Aylward wrote:

I use spamassassin and have HTML mail set high because HTML mail seems the province of spammers and marketing and people who invite you to visit malware sites. I'd rate this as well over 80% looking at my stats.

Bayes is my friend. Handles 99%. T-bird handles about 90% of what gets through, though it's about 5% on the aggressive side. So T-birds filters shunt to a ZZZ-spam folder, where I occasionally go through to look for HAM (~1/20 -- thus the 5%, ) -- send the rest into junk as fodder for Bayes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2014-03-23 04:15, David Haller wrote:

...

I.e. if the list SW gets a message with a text & html alternative, the list sw should be smart enough to pick the format it allows and drop the other.

That (i.e. silently discarding html-parts when they accompany text/plain parts) might be configured. Have you asked about that yet? No? Then shut it 'til then.

It has been asked before, and got an answer. Unfortunately, I can not locate it. There were problems. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2014-03-23 18:02, Anton Aylward wrote:

Any interface which allows faked embedded links to malware, hiding the real destination from the user, is fundamentally flawed.

Yes, this is a problem. But there is software that warns about this, adding a new part to the email, on top, that says that "this email contains deceptive links". Pine does something of the sort, for instance.

text is a dubious one. What value does colour and juggling fonts have in our context?

It is not only colour or big fonts. You can have paragraphs with plain bold headers, or underlined words. This is a resource that we had with the plain typewriters of a century ago - I know because I used those things quite a bit. We can not even do that with pain text email >:-) Yes, text formatting can be abused, but not having any at all is absurd. It is even more restrictive than typewriters!

I don't think the restrictions on what can be posted are stupid. I don't want to receive attachments that I'm not interested in opening/viewing. Why waste bandwidth; put it in some kind of dropbox.

But you do! Attachments are against the rules, yes, but they are not filtered out. The list server accepts and forwards them. For instance, on Thu, 09 Jan 2014 16:54:25 +0100, the post with subject "BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference", weights 532Km, because it contains two attachments: 1 26 lines Text/PLAIN (charset: windows-1252) 2 36 lines Text/PLAIN (charset: windows-1252) (Name: "xen info.txt") 3 393 KB Image/PNG (Name: "Screenshot_console2.png") Patrick noticed ;-) And it is not the only case, just the largest and more recent I found on my current folder. If you think that one is old, today there is a a 1 megabyte attachment on the opensuse-kernel mail list. So, no, attachments are not blocked at all, and I'm not happy about that. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2014-03-23 23:21, Anton Aylward wrote:

Perhaps its a problem with the mail reader you use but with Thunderbird in plain text mode *bold* and _underlined_ mark-up is possible.

No, not a problem. But it is not universal. And it interferes with the text of the message, because the client can: display bold with the asterisks display bold hiding the asterisks do neither, ie, display plain with the asterisks in view display bold when the intention is an asterisk as wildchar...

Some of us are even capable of recognising things like <b>bold</bold> as well :-)

All those are workarounds to not being able to simply mark text as bold. I don't say I like html; it can triple the size of emails. But some times I simply would like to have more formatting features available in email, without tricks. And the only universal standard for that, in email, is html. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2014-03-23 23:22, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 23/03/14 02:54 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

You can have paragraphs with plain bold headers, or underlined words. This is a resource that we had with the plain typewriters of a century ago

Ah, yes

Letter backspace underline, letter backspace underline, letter backspace underline ...

Rather move carriage back, then underline-underline-underline-underline-underline-... :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On Saturday 22 Mar 2014 13:00:59 Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-03-22 11:06, ianseeks wrote:

...

I think you need to add this to the list of reasons of rejection

Cutting from an existing valid email and pasting into a new email.

That is all i have done in this email so i think your rejection software needs refining or the Linux Opensusue 13.1/kde.4.12 cut and paste needs fixing No, that's not the reason it was rejected, I guess. Look:

...

X-MIME-Notice: attachments may have been removed from this message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="nextPart1931382.KXN0dbZ2DS"

It is a multipart message. Only one part was displayed here, but I guess that the next part is html, and thus, duly rejected by the mail server.

This is not the first rejection i've had due to "cut and paste" This is the process I followed: 1. read a valid mailing list email 2. pressed "Reply" and entered some data 3. opened another valid mailing list email and highlighted a section of text and pressed "Ctrl c" to copy it 4. I went back to the email reply i was editting and pressed "Ctrl v" to paste the data into the reply. 5. I re-arranged the data at bit using the backspace/delete key and inserted new data just using the keyboard keys. At no point did i format the data itself. The only 2 points of failure i can think of are:- 1. pasting process in Kmail 2. the way the data is transferred from the paste buffer to the application. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 23/03/14 11:06 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-03-23 11:55, ianseeks wrote:

...

On Saturday 22 Mar 2014 13:00:59 Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

This is not the first rejection i've had due to "cut and paste"

This is the process I followed:

...

...

The only 2 points of failure i can think of are:- 1. pasting process in Kmail 2. the way the data is transferred from the paste buffer to the application.

Ah, so you used kmail, not Thunderbird. I did not check. It is probably an intentional feature of Kmail, that when you paste html text, the post gets automatically flagged as html.

It is not a bug, IMO. Not of kmail, not of openSUSE. It is simply the way both sides work...

Kmail could have a feature to know that certain recipients do not accept html email. Thunderbird has it.

Thunderbird also has an option as to whether things like that -- if i understand the cut-n-paste stuff correctly -- are inline or as an attachment. I set that to 'inline' and never have problems like this. -- The very essence of leadership is its purpose. And the purpose of leadership is to accomplish a task. That is what leadership does--and what it does is more important than what it is or how it works. - Colonel Dandridge M. Malone -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

Ah, so you used kmail, not Thunderbird. I did not check. It is probably an intentional feature of Kmail, that when you paste html text, the post gets automatically flagged as html.

That's why I said it was a feature included by this list. I don't use kmail.. but the kde config is more heavily customized by opensuse -- complete w/branding. One would have higher expectations of opensuse lists allowing stuff from their own branded products. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-03-23 20:49, Linda Walsh wrote:

...

One would have higher expectations of opensuse lists allowing stuff from their own branded products.

kmail is not a product of the list maintainers, nor is it influenced by them. That's probably an upstream intended feature. How you use kmail is up to you.

But KDE is "branded" by opensuse. As opensuse is customizing KDE -- people would tend to think that the version has been customized by opensuse along the lines of how factory-creator people thought it should be. MozillaThunderbird isn't branded but only shipped 'as is'. If the user is installing an OpenSuse-branded version of something, I wouldn't say it is unreasonable to assume that it has been custom-configured by and for the opensuse environment. That may or may not be the case, but you don't usually put your name on something except to differentiate it from a 'vanilla' version of the same -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2014-03-24 13:05, ianseeks wrote:

On Sunday 23 Mar 2014 16:06:45 Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Ah, so you used kmail, not Thunderbird. I did not check. It is probably an intentional feature of Kmail, that when you paste html text, the post gets automatically flagged as html.

But i am not pasting HTML text. Its text from an email in this list which by definition has to be text.

Ah, that's a bug, then. I don't have kmail currently configured, so I can not try to reproduce. Others can try. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On Monday 24 Mar 2014 15:48:38 Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-03-24 13:05, ianseeks wrote:

...

On Sunday 23 Mar 2014 16:06:45 Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Ah, so you used kmail, not Thunderbird. I did not check. It is probably an intentional feature of Kmail, that when you paste html text, the post gets automatically flagged as html.

But i am not pasting HTML text. Its text from an email in this list which by definition has to be text.

Ah, that's a bug, then.

I don't have kmail currently configured, so I can not try to reproduce. Others can try. i've logged a bug 332522 - lets see if anyone looks at it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org