[opensuse] Late to Game, but finally moved to 42.3, clean install a bit awkward, but completes fine.
All, I finally moved my laptop to 42.3 (even though I booted 42.2 here, because I haven't finished the hours of config still to come...), but nonetheless I have a blazing Leap_42.3 install with a fresh KDE3 desktop, all on 500G of Samsung SSD -- and yes -- the speed difference (especially compiling) is very noticeable. All in all the Leap 42.3 install was.. cumbersome, frustrating, took a bit of coaxing to install what I wanted installed and not what I didn't want, but it worked just fine. The cumbersome part was the inability to add repos prior to the install (or at any point during). This was compounded by the truly insane default partition scheme suggested using btrfs for a user-laptop?? We have dumbed-down the desktop to the point of file managers that have a shadow of the capabilities they provided a decade ago so they are "easier for the new user", but now we somehow expect the newbie to master an enterprise level filesystem notorious for snapshotting all usable space into oblivion? I guess the really smart people see the logic in that, but that logic just escapes us lesser mortals... The good parts of the install, after nuking the btrfs suggestion and the secondary non-native XFS suggestion and dropping back to the wasteful old ext4 that has never lost a file for me in a decade, the remainder went great. Both wired and wireless Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection (wired) and Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (wireless) -- so kudos to that. A bit more of the cumbersome was completing the entire install in text mode with minimal yast modules present as the frustrating part of the install provided no KDE3 pattern, despite providing every other minor semi-maintained option of enlightenment, lxde, mode, cinnamon, icewm, windowmaker, etc.. You guys have a fantastic option in KDE3 that installs flawlessly, there is no reason not to have a patter for it for install. (enlightenment but KDE?) If you go this route, at least install the X-server and icewm so you will get the full yast. Even installing xterm, firefox, LibreOffice, etc.. still did not pick up the X-server dependency leading to needing to complete the install via out old buddy the yast2 interface (which is quite fine). The other slightly frustrating part (which has been there since at least 7.0) is clicking of a repo and.... waiting while the package info is loaded (and reloaded each time you move up/down the repo list) That and the 'tab-order' of all the text mode controls obviously haven't been revisited since the 10.0 days despite the letters changing. (tabbing reminds me of a pinball machine -- with no hope of shift-tab actually backing up to the previous pane) All-in-all other than the btrfs, awkward desktop pattern selection, and no X-server dependency -- there is not much to complain about. There was no fuss on the network-install connection or package retrieval, it just worked, there are some dependency issue when selecting packages without packman and/or videolan configured. The last surprise was the missing convenience directives in /etc/pam.d/su that no longer provided an easy uncomment to allow users of 'wheel' to su without a password, e.g. # Uncomment the following line to implicitly trust users in the "wheel" group. auth sufficient pam_wheel.so trust use_uid # Uncomment the following line to require a user to be in the "wheel" group. auth required pam_wheel.so use_uid ... the removal may be a security enhancement, but thankfully I have a ssh client on my phone that I could jump on an older install and get the details (heaven know I didn't recall the specifics) Maybe next time I'll take the less painful route of upgrade, but I've done a clean install of every release (other than those I skipped when we were on the 6-month rapid-fire rabbit-pellet release cycles) back in the good ole days (when that steel-trap type logic reared it head in the name of progress) So now I sit with the shiny new ssd as sda and this old platter as sdb in my laptop, just wait to finish the bulk of the install by mounting the other under /mnt and rolling all the needed files and configs back over. (and tweaking the users/groups, etc.) That will be as a time-allows project over the next few days. So good job again. Leap 42.3 installs just fine. Other than the somewhat ironic logic of making things easier for new users while feeding them btrfs there were really no hiccups in the network install. (that speaks well, I don't think I've had a serious install problem in 15 years, sure there are things that could be made better, but the installer still mows the grass) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-04-03 05:13, David C. Rankin wrote:
All,
I finally moved my laptop to 42.3 (even though I booted 42.2 here, because I haven't finished the hours of config still to come...), but nonetheless I have a blazing Leap_42.3 install with a fresh KDE3 desktop, all on 500G of Samsung SSD -- and yes -- the speed difference (especially compiling) is very noticeable.
Good! :-)
All in all the Leap 42.3 install was.. cumbersome, frustrating, took a bit of coaxing to install what I wanted installed and not what I didn't want, but it worked just fine.
The cumbersome part was the inability to add repos prior to the install (or at any point during).
Huh? I would have to try again to verify, but I'm 95% certain that you can add repos during the install, in a cumbersome way. It appears after you configure the network. Confirmed: right after the time zone configuration screen, I get to "User interface setup" with this entries: (*) Desktop with KDE Plasma ( ) Desktop with Gnome ( ) Server (text mode) ( ) Custom [Configure online repositories] <==== I could attach a photo, but I don't think that is necessary. Wait, here, I found one - courtesy of our doc site: <https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book.opensuse.startup/images/install_ui_osuse.png>
This was compounded by the truly insane default partition scheme suggested using btrfs for a user-laptop?? We have dumbed-down the desktop to the point of file managers that have a shadow of the capabilities they provided a decade ago so they are "easier for the new user", but now we somehow expect the newbie to master an enterprise level filesystem notorious for snapshotting all usable space into oblivion?
I guess the really smart people see the logic in that, but that logic just escapes us lesser mortals...
Well, this is arguable (I also will not use btrfs), but changing what filesystem your machine will use is trivial enough. I don't see the point in even complaining ;-P What is not trivial at all is manually choosing btrfs and then creating the subvolumes manually, so having it automatic and default btrfs turns out good for them. :-) In fact, on 42.3 install, click on "edit proposal settings" and change the default filesystem. Automatically YaST will do a new proposal using whatever you selected. This feature is missing on 15.0, the partitioner is being redone from scratch.
The good parts of the install, after nuking the btrfs suggestion and the secondary non-native XFS suggestion and dropping back to the wasteful old ext4 that has never lost a file for me in a decade, the remainder went great. Both wired and wireless Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection (wired) and Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (wireless) -- so kudos to that.
A bit more of the cumbersome was completing the entire install in text mode with minimal yast modules present as the frustrating part of the install provided no KDE3 pattern, despite providing every other minor semi-maintained option of enlightenment, lxde, mode, cinnamon, icewm, windowmaker, etc.. You guys have a fantastic option in KDE3 that installs flawlessly, there is no reason not to have a patter for it for install. (enlightenment but KDE?)
I still do not understand why you had to continue the installation in text mode. Did the graphic install system crash? Your choice of desktop for the installed system has nothing to do with what is used by the install system.
If you go this route, at least install the X-server and icewm so you will get the full yast. Even installing xterm, firefox, LibreOffice, etc.. still did not pick up the X-server dependency leading to needing to complete the install via out old buddy the yast2 interface (which is quite fine). The other slightly frustrating part (which has been there since at least 7.0) is clicking of a repo and.... waiting while the package info is loaded (and reloaded each time you move up/down the repo list)
The choice of install patterns lacks "minimal X system" since some versions, and it is missed. We have been unable to convince developers to put it back. However, once you have selected the "custom" selection you can choose in the next view (Software Selection and System Tasks) "X Window system" which I understand yields the equivalent to the "minimal X system": <https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book.opensuse.startup/images/install_custom_ui_osuse.png> If you pressed the button "online repos" to tick at least the "OSS" repo: <https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book.opensuse.startup/images/install_onlinerepos_osuse.png> then you get more software and patterns. True, KDE3 is not visually present there, perhaps because you have to manually add the KDE3 repo at the previous step. I'm testing in a virtual machine a 42.3 install as I type this, but that step is not one I'm going to do :-)
That and the 'tab-order' of all the text mode controls obviously haven't been revisited since the 10.0 days despite the letters changing. (tabbing reminds me of a pinball machine -- with no hope of shift-tab actually backing up to the previous pane)
True. But you still have not explained why you installed in text mode.
All-in-all other than the btrfs, awkward desktop pattern selection, and no X-server dependency -- there is not much to complain about. There was no fuss on the network-install connection or package retrieval, it just worked, there are some dependency issue when selecting packages without packman and/or videolan configured.
The last surprise was the missing convenience directives in /etc/pam.d/su that no longer provided an easy uncomment to allow users of 'wheel' to su without a password, e.g.
Ah, so that's what the wheel group was used for. I have been wondering about that for close to two decades. :-)
# Uncomment the following line to implicitly trust users in the "wheel" group. auth sufficient pam_wheel.so trust use_uid # Uncomment the following line to require a user to be in the "wheel" group. auth required pam_wheel.so use_uid
... the removal may be a security enhancement, but thankfully I have a ssh client on my phone that I could jump on an older install and get the details (heaven know I didn't recall the specifics)
Surely you keep the backup of the previous install to check such details ;-p
Maybe next time I'll take the less painful route of upgrade, but I've done a clean install of every release (other than those I skipped when we were on the 6-month rapid-fire rabbit-pellet release cycles) back in the good ole days (when that steel-trap type logic reared it head in the name of progress)
So now I sit with the shiny new ssd as sda and this old platter as sdb in my laptop, just wait to finish the bulk of the install by mounting the other under /mnt and rolling all the needed files and configs back over. (and tweaking the users/groups, etc.) That will be as a time-allows project over the next few days.
So good job again. Leap 42.3 installs just fine. Other than the somewhat ironic logic of making things easier for new users while feeding them btrfs there were really no hiccups in the network install. (that speaks well, I don't think I've had a serious install problem in 15 years, sure there are things that could be made better, but the installer still mows the grass)
I see no point on arguing over btrfs again. Just a waste of e-ink. Nothing anybody says is going to change anything there, so shut up and enjoy life little pleasures :-P :-D -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 03/04/18 05:20 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I see no point on arguing over btrfs again. Just a waste of e-ink. Nothing anybody says is going to change anything there, so shut up and enjoy life little pleasures :-P :-D
As you say, selecting another file system type is easy enough. Perhaps it is a bit traumatic for a Joe Sixpack who is converting from Windows and is too lazy to brows wikipedia or google for 'btrfs' and perhaps the 'corporate server' attitude implicit in BtrFS is inappropriate for a consumer laptop, but lets face it, David isn't inexperienced or naive. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/2018 04:20 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote: <quote> Confirmed: right after the time zone configuration screen, I get to "User interface setup" with this entries: (*) Desktop with KDE Plasma ( ) Desktop with Gnome ( ) Server (text mode) ( ) Custom [Configure online repositories] <=3D=3D=3D=3D I could attach a photo, but I don't think that is necessary. Wait, here, I found one - courtesy of our doc site: <https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book.opensuse.s= tartup/images/install_ui_osuse.png> </quote> Damn! I must be blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. I was specifically looking for a way to do this and my eyes must have skipped over it. Thank you Carlos.... Now I know where that bugger hides... -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-04-04 04:21, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 04/03/2018 04:20 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
<quote>
Confirmed: right after the time zone configuration screen, I get to "User interface setup" with this entries:
(*) Desktop with KDE Plasma ( ) Desktop with Gnome ( ) Server (text mode) ( ) Custom
[Configure online repositories] <=3D=3D=3D=3D
I could attach a photo, but I don't think that is necessary. Wait, here, I found one - courtesy of our doc site:
<https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book.opensuse.s= tartup/images/install_ui_osuse.png>
</quote>
Damn! I must be blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. I was specifically looking for a way to do this and my eyes must have skipped over it.
Thank you Carlos.... Now I know where that bugger hides...
Welcome! Unless you were using the netinstall image, which has some differences, coming from setting up network early. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 04/03/2018 10:01 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Welcome!
Unless you were using the netinstall image, which has some differences, coming from setting up network early.
Yes, I was using the net-install, and honestly, I looked, I mean I really looked for anywhere I could add another repo. Unless I just screwed-the-pooch on that one and missed it, I don't recall it anywhere during the net-install. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 2018-04-04 09:04, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 04/03/2018 10:01 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Welcome!
Unless you were using the netinstall image, which has some differences, coming from setting up network early.
Yes, I was using the net-install, and honestly, I looked, I mean I really looked for anywhere I could add another repo. Unless I just screwed-the-pooch on that one and missed it, I don't recall it anywhere during the net-install.
Well, I'm right now running the 42.3 netinstall media on a virtual machine. I see the button to "configure online repositories" in the next screen after the display of the world map for setting the time zone. What I did not see was a display to configure network, that must be much earlier on the setup, and it expects automatic (dhcp) to work. If it finds it, it keeps silent and starts the main job. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 04/04/2018 06:07 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Well, I'm right now running the 42.3 netinstall media on a virtual machine. I see the button to "configure online repositories" in the next screen after the display of the world map for setting the time zone.
What I did not see was a display to configure network, that must be much earlier on the setup, and it expects automatic (dhcp) to work. If it finds it, it keeps silent and starts the main job.
That makes since, because IIRC, as soon as I set the clock, I was dumped right into the partitioner, ... and there changing from btrfs on root caused the 40G root to be recreated as a 10G ext4 root which expanded the size of home in the suggestion the partitioner displayed -- causing me to have to delete both and start over -- but for the simple 3-primary case (including swap), that was no big deal. continuing from the partitioner, I think the only screen I got before package selection was the user-setup, where I nix the use as administrative account to get a traditional root account + user account, next screen was set root password and then package selection (or package selection could have been before user??) but that was about it. I never had an option to configure online repos until the reboot and my lauching of yast. I downloaded the 42.3 net install a week ago or so, if that makes a difference on the version. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 2018-04-05 01:16, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 04/04/2018 06:07 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Well, I'm right now running the 42.3 netinstall media on a virtual machine. I see the button to "configure online repositories" in the next screen after the display of the world map for setting the time zone.
What I did not see was a display to configure network, that must be much earlier on the setup, and it expects automatic (dhcp) to work. If it finds it, it keeps silent and starts the main job.
That makes since, because IIRC, as soon as I set the clock, I was dumped right into the partitioner,
The screen sequence is: 1) Boot (with some options, no network button). Loads kernel and install system. (slow here (minutes!)) 2) Language selection (system probing) 3) Suggested partition --> edit proposal settings, choose ext4 by default, no separate home. Now the proposal changes to a single root ext4 plus swap. I accept defaults, I'm not going to complete the install anyway. 4) Clock and time zone. 5) User interface choice. Here you can select on "configure online repositories", and have these choices: (*) Desktop with KDE Plasma ( ) Desktop with Gnome ( ) Server (text mode) ( ) Custom [Configure online repositories] As this is the netinstall, the default online repositories are already enabled, not needed for me. 5.b) If you select custom, the next window is the "software selection and system tasks". I choose "X Window system". 6) Local user setup 7) Installation settings. This has several options: Booting Software Default system target (graphical) System Firewall and SSH Clicking on software goes to the pattern and package selection window. 8) Install. I stop here, so I don't know what graphical desktop will be installed, but I suppose it is the minimal one.
... and there changing from btrfs on root caused the 40G root to be recreated as a 10G ext4 root which expanded the size of home in the suggestion the partitioner displayed -- causing me to have to delete both and start over -- but for the simple 3-primary case (including swap), that was no big deal.
Well, as this virtual system I'm testing has no partitions at all, the proposal doesn't have the same choices as yours. But clicking on "create partition setup" gives you a choices of disks (and from memory, partitions) to use for the proposal. Or the "Expert partitioner". One button on the expert partitioner is to import mount points: this wonderful option allows you to install on top of an existing one, reading the fstab file. You choose what partitions to format or reuse as they are (you should format root, keep home, etc).
continuing from the partitioner, I think the only screen I got before package selection was the user-setup, where I nix the use as administrative account to get a traditional root account + user account, next screen was set root password and then package selection (or package selection could have been before user??) but that was about it.
Well, see above the exact sequence, I have it in sight :-) I have gone forward and back several times to check points, no problem. You can do and undo many times, nothing is final till the end of choices.
I never had an option to configure online repos until the reboot and my lauching of yast.
Sometimes I do not see a button that I know is there, it happens.
I downloaded the 42.3 net install a week ago or so, if that makes a difference on the version.
No, it doesn't matter. Once released, it is not changed. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 04/04/2018 06:52 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Well, see above the exact sequence, I have it in sight :-)
I have gone forward and back several times to check points, no problem. You can do and undo many times, nothing is final till the end of choices.
I never had an option to configure online repos until the reboot and my lauching of yast. Sometimes I do not see a button that I know is there, it happens.
(well, the older I get -- the more it seems to happen....) Thank you again Carlos. I'm glad to see the sequence, and know you can back up all the way without problems. I know which button I will find next time :) (Oh -- and the enigmail problem with Tbird in leap 42 is gone in 43, and kudos!!! I have gtk2 themeing again in FF and Tbird -- that was an amazing surprise -- I can actually see where the address and subject lines are in the compose dialog again :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 04/03/2018 04:20 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote: <quote>
That and the 'tab-order' of all the text mode controls obviously have= n't been revisited since the 10.0 days despite the letters changing. (tabbi= ng reminds me of a pinball machine -- with no hope of shift-tab actually b= acking up to the previous pane)
True. But you still have not explained why you installed in text mode. </quote> Oh, Sorry, I chose ( ) Custom.... and I installed IceWM, (chose the rpm for installation, not the pattern) which I though would pull in the minimal X-server, but no. When the installer showed the Summary page, (were you enable filewall, enable ssh, and unblock ssh) I attempted to set the default systemd target to Graphical instead of Muli-User, but the installed flashed a big RED warning that X wasn't installed -- there was no way to backup all the way to package selection at that point, so I knew when I booted for the first time, I would boot in Multi-User and finish my repo config and package selection in text mode. No biggie -- and the pinball tab-order was entertaining (not in a good way), but it worked fine. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-04-04 04:29, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 04/03/2018 04:20 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
<quote>
That and the 'tab-order' of all the text mode controls obviously have= n't been revisited since the 10.0 days despite the letters changing. (tabbi= ng reminds me of a pinball machine -- with no hope of shift-tab actually b= acking up to the previous pane)
True.
But you still have not explained why you installed in text mode.
</quote>
Oh, Sorry, I chose
( ) Custom....
and I installed IceWM, (chose the rpm for installation, not the pattern) which I though would pull in the minimal X-server, but no.
Oh, so language issue here. The install system run in graphics mode, but the resulting installed system ran in text mode. There is a graphical pattern that you apparently missed that is called "X Window System" <https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book.opensuse.startup/images/install_custom_ui_osuse.png> This should have done the trick, I think. Otherwise, next time choose "LXQt Desktop Environment", which is minimal enough.
When the installer showed the Summary page, (were you enable filewall, enable ssh, and unblock ssh) I attempted to set the default systemd target to Graphical instead of Muli-User, but the installed flashed a big RED warning that X wasn't installed -- there was no way to backup all the way to package selection at that point, so I knew when I booted for the first time, I would boot in Multi-User and finish my repo config and package selection in text mode.
I can not try this instant, but I think that yes, you can go back to the first screen if you wish, one be one. Notice the [BACK] button down on the screen: <https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book.opensuse.startup/images/install_summary_osuse.png> But there is no need to go back at all: at that summary screen click on "software" and it will allow you to select any package or pattern you wish. The only thing you can not change there is the partition setup or language.
No biggie -- and the pinball tab-order was entertaining (not in a good way), but it worked fine.
Yes, I have met it. We are not big pals, but we make do, you know ;-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 04/03/2018 10:00 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote: <quote> I can not try this instant, but I think that yes, you can go back to the first screen if you wish, one be one. Notice the [BACK] button down on the screen: <https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book.opensuse.s= tartup/images/install_summary_osuse.png> But there is no need to go back at all: at that summary screen click on "software" and it will allow you to select any package or pattern you wis= h. </quote> (**note:** I'm manually quoting your messages because they are still blank in my Tbird and I have to Ctrl+U to read :) Yes, I chose "Software" and that is when I went to OSS and added IceWm, but it didn't pull the X-server in. And, yes, I realize my mistake in not choosing the X-pattern, but I try and avoid "patterns" just do to all the stuff I don't want being installed without me telling it to. The minimal X is probably fine, (IIRC you get TWM and not much more -- which is good) Why isn't Fluxbox in OSS? That is a damn good desktop that installs in 300K. IceWm is 2M. (and all those are boxtop forks (original was Blackbox, the IceWm, Fluxbox, LXDE, etc..). But the LXDE install has grown like weeds in a vacant lot, and you might as well go ahead and install Xfce at that point. You can bet I'm grabbing the Minimal X Config next time :) Now we just have to finish getting the KDE3 repo finished for 15 and I'm good to try the "upgrade" path. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-04-04 05:57, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 04/03/2018 10:00 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote: <quote>
I can not try this instant, but I think that yes, you can go back to the first screen if you wish, one be one. Notice the [BACK] button down on the screen:
<https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book.opensuse.s= tartup/images/install_summary_osuse.png>
But there is no need to go back at all: at that summary screen click on "software" and it will allow you to select any package or pattern you wis= h.
</quote>
(**note:** I'm manually quoting your messages because they are still blank in my Tbird and I have to Ctrl+U to read :)
You still have that problem? Wow :-( I wondered why the strange quoting. I think you need a different mail account with another provider, yours does strange things.
Yes, I chose "Software" and that is when I went to OSS and added IceWm, but it didn't pull the X-server in. And, yes, I realize my mistake in not choosing the X-pattern, but I try and avoid "patterns" just do to all the stuff I don't want being installed without me telling it to. The minimal X is probably fine, (IIRC you get TWM and not much more -- which is good)
Yes, the "minimal X pattern" was a good one, I miss it.
Why isn't Fluxbox in OSS? That is a damn good desktop that installs in 300K. IceWm is 2M. (and all those are boxtop forks (original was Blackbox, the IceWm, Fluxbox, LXDE, etc..). But the LXDE install has grown like weeds in a vacant lot, and you might as well go ahead and install Xfce at that point.
Some of the patterns you only get with online repos enabled. For instance, on 15.0 you absolutely need online repos or there is no XFCE and other patterns, so the situation is even worse.
You can bet I'm grabbing the Minimal X Config next time :)
:-)
Now we just have to finish getting the KDE3 repo finished for 15 and I'm good to try the "upgrade" path.
You must start thinking about letting KDE3 die, the support is limited and the problems to maintain it increase exponentially. Me, I'd be happy to still be able to run some of the KDE3 apps that were not ported. Kbabel, rekall... -- Cheers/Saludos Carlos E. R. (testing openSUSE Leap 15.0, at Minas-Anor) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/04/2018 03:05 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
You must start thinking about letting KDE3 die, the support is limited and the problems to maintain it increase exponentially.
Me, I'd be happy to still be able to run some of the KDE3 apps that were not ported. Kbabel, rekall...
for me it's not really that. I run the latest greatest plasma (current as of today) on Arch, and it is simply not the integrated and efficient desktop that KDE3 is. It is painfully obvious that what the original KDE team did was focus on desktop efficiency and human factors as the core of the development, and then each application grew from that coordinated effort and framework. plasma lacks that and it shows. plasma, as with kde4, was a let's port the kde3 apps to a new Qt framework, and instead of all working to develop that core and then developing apps outward that utilize the best of what Qt had to offer, you had one or at most a few developers responsible for making the old packages work on the new widget library. That has resulted in mismatched file choosers, and a round-peg in a square-hole feel to the desktop that just drives you batty when you are used to everything just working.. I wrote 100s of bugs against kde4 and close to that number against plasma/frameworks (both Qt and KDE bugs). One thing you glean, rather quickly, from working with the devs is a clear understanding what there approach to the desktop is and whether they are interested in making it the best it can be -- or whether they really just want to get it working and don't really care about the attention to detail. And that is, and will always be, the thing that differentiates a project that values making something the best it can be, actually creating something new to reach that goal -- or a project that is just porting something to yet another widget set... because... (well who knows...) Nothing would make me happier that to launch plasma and have it all work without ending up spending more time fixing things than just getting work done. But when things like font-rendering are so different that you can no longer print forms that paginate the same (important in my work), applications that are limited to a single instance that prevent you from being about to capture what is broken with them, it really leaves you wondering -- what's the point? [somewhat comical, desktop effects were totally thrashed in the latest updates just a couple of weeks ago, some effects just gone, no way to initiate the desktop cube any longer... that after the cylinder and sphere reflections were found to be using the cube reflection code causing the reflection to hop up and down over the title bar on rotate -- earthquake --(the radius of a sphere or cylinder doesn't change -- the vertices of cube corners very much do)..] But on a good note -- the basket-note pads for plasma received a major update and will now actually display most of the decades worth of Linux and programming information I have squirreled away there, and actually allow it to be edited without corruption. So I do see things getting better, but I saw things getting better with KDE4 too -- we see where that ended up after 8 years of patching, fixing, scrapping, rewriting etc... After 8-years of promising the next best thing since sliced-bread, it was relegated to the desktop trash heap of history, just to run off chasing the new Qt5 frameworks and the porting kde3/4 apps started all over again... If history is a good teacher -- we should look for it to be in reasonable shape somewhere around 2024. Meanwhile -- there is no reason Qt3 won't still be chugging along, and between a few talented devs and TDE, still providing all the patched and secure functionality of the latest gee-whiz widget set. </soapbox (don't even get me started about Gnome3)> -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-04-05 01:56, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 04/04/2018 03:05 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
You must start thinking about letting KDE3 die, the support is limited and the problems to maintain it increase exponentially.
Me, I'd be happy to still be able to run some of the KDE3 apps that were not ported. Kbabel, rekall...
for me it's not really that. I run the latest greatest plasma (current as of today) on Arch, and it is simply not the integrated and efficient desktop that KDE3 is. It is painfully obvious that what the original KDE team did was focus on desktop efficiency and human factors as the core of the development, and then each application grew from that coordinated effort and framework.
... Ok, I understand. But the thing is, KDE3 is having problems keeping up with the changes underneath it. I don't remember the details, but things will stop working sooner or later, forcing you to switch to something else that you do not like. I recommend that you install 15.0 with KDE3 *now* somewhere and test it and report bugs. See how it goes. 15.0 is going to be released soon and then it may be too late.
If history is a good teacher -- we should look for it to be in reasonable shape somewhere around 2024. Meanwhile -- there is no reason Qt3 won't still be chugging along, and between a few talented devs and TDE, still providing all the patched and secure functionality of the latest gee-whiz widget set.
Well, if TDE is an alternative, then you can switch to it.
</soapbox (don't even get me started about Gnome3)>
:-D No need :-) After all, I was a gnome user for a decade and I had to switch to xfce. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 2018-04-06 20:00, ken wrote:
the pinball tab-order
What does this mean?
To move the "action" from one control to another in YaST in text mode we can not use the mouse (even if the terminal does support mouse). We have to use the [TAB], and see the highlight jump from one control to another in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
Le 06/04/2018 à 20:15, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much.
shift tab works usually jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 20:24:57 +0200 "jdd@dodin.org" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 06/04/2018 à 20:15, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much.
shift tab works usually
jdd
why is your reply double-quoted instead of unquoted? It makes it very difficult to read. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [01-01-70 12:34]:
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 20:24:57 +0200 "jdd@dodin.org" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 06/04/2018 à 20:15, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much.
shift tab works usually
jdd
why is your reply double-quoted instead of unquoted? It makes it very difficult to read.
<quote> you have a problem with your client or with transport to/from your server: Le 06/04/2018 à 20:15, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much.
shift tab works usually jdd -- http://dodin.org </quote> and the type of conversation you have initiated would be best off-list. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 15:56:20 -0400 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [01-01-70 12:34]:
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 20:24:57 +0200 "jdd@dodin.org" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 06/04/2018 à 20:15, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much.
shift tab works usually
jdd
why is your reply double-quoted instead of unquoted? It makes it very difficult to read.
<quote> you have a problem with your client or with transport to/from your server:
Le 06/04/2018 à 20:15, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much.
shift tab works usually
jdd
-- http://dodin.org </quote>
It looks like we all have bugs in our mailers. The source of the problem is Thunderbird, which jdd used to write the original mail. He specified the mail was to be sent as format=flowed, which I think may be the Thunderbird default. But Thunderbird hasn't encoded it properly. The quoted lines (i.e. what Carlos originally wrote) that have text on them do not have trailing spaces, so they are 'fixed', whilst the empty quote lines do have trailing spaces (i.e. greater space NL), meaning they are 'flowed'. Unfortunately the line immediately after the last empty quote line is not quoted. That is not allowed by RFC 3676. The last line before a change of quote level must be 'fixed'. Also unfortunately, both our mailers handle the situation incorrectly. Mine ignores the change in quote level and reflows jdd's reply into the quotation. Yours doesn't reflow the two empty 'flowed' lines into a single quoted line. If you haven't set text_flowed then mutt is off the hook but you were comparing apples to oranges. It'd be good if one or more of the Thunderbird users would bug report this; I'm in discussions about my mailer. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [04-11-18 17:10]:
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 15:56:20 -0400 Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [01-01-70 12:34]:
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 20:24:57 +0200 "jdd@dodin.org" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 06/04/2018 à 20:15, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much.
shift tab works usually
jdd
why is your reply double-quoted instead of unquoted? It makes it very difficult to read.
<quote> you have a problem with your client or with transport to/from your server:
Le 06/04/2018 à 20:15, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much.
shift tab works usually
jdd
-- http://dodin.org </quote>
It looks like we all have bugs in our mailers.
The source of the problem is Thunderbird, which jdd used to write the original mail. He specified the mail was to be sent as format=flowed, which I think may be the Thunderbird default. But Thunderbird hasn't encoded it properly.
The quoted lines (i.e. what Carlos originally wrote) that have text on them do not have trailing spaces, so they are 'fixed', whilst the empty quote lines do have trailing spaces (i.e. greater space NL), meaning they are 'flowed'. Unfortunately the line immediately after the last empty quote line is not quoted. That is not allowed by RFC 3676. The last line before a change of quote level must be 'fixed'.
Also unfortunately, both our mailers handle the situation incorrectly. Mine ignores the change in quote level and reflows jdd's reply into the quotation. Yours doesn't reflow the two empty 'flowed' lines into a single quoted line. If you haven't set text_flowed then mutt is off the hook but you were comparing apples to oranges.
It'd be good if one or more of the Thunderbird users would bug report this; I'm in discussions about my mailer.
you have a problem with *your* mail client. I do not have "flowed" set or unset, mutt just handles it correctly, while your "claws" does not. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/06/2018 01:24 PM, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 06/04/2018 à 20:15, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much.
shift tab works usually
jdd
Not in the text mode yast -- anymore. It's like someone put the tab and shift-tab order in a bucket and shuffled them. Pressing `tab` does in no way imply that you can `shift-tab` back to the previous items. No rhyme or reason. I found it easier just to tab all the way back around. I'm not even sure that shift-tab will even cycle from end to beginning and back to end anymore.... -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 07/04/2018 à 05:46, David C. Rankin a écrit :
Not in the text mode yast -- anymore. It's like someone put the tab and shift-tab order in a bucket and shuffled them.
it does in my 42.3 install. You may have experienced some sort of install bug or faulty iso (it happened to me) usually better do it again (with other download) than try to fix it jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/07/2018 12:43 AM, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 07/04/2018 à 05:46, David C. Rankin a écrit :
Not in the text mode yast -- anymore. It's like someone put the tab and shift-tab order in a bucket and shuffled them.
it does in my 42.3 install. You may have experienced some sort of install bug or faulty iso (it happened to me)
usually better do it again (with other download) than try to fix it
jdd
Have you tried it in the partitioner or software-selection, and if I recall correctly the User/Group management screens? There are some parts of it that are fine, but others that a completely whacko... -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 07/04/2018 à 07:57, David C. Rankin a écrit :
Have you tried it in the partitioner
just tested and shift tab works as expected this is in french, it may be that a local translation is faulty (I remember problems in italian translation recently) jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
jdd@dodin.org composed on 2018-04-07 08:29 (UTC+0200):
David C. Rankin composed:
Have you tried it in the partitioner
just tested and shift tab works as expected
this is in french, it may be that a local translation is faulty (I remember problems in italian translation recently)
Or maybe it only works if using a local translation. I only use en_US aka default, and it last worked in 42.1. -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 07/04/2018 à 08:34, Felix Miata a écrit :
Or maybe it only works if using a local translation. I only use en_US aka default, and it last worked in 42.1.
sorry, works perfectly here even in LANG=en_US jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
jdd@dodin.org composed on 2018-04-07 08:51 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed:
Or maybe it only works if using a local translation. I only use en_US aka default, and it last worked in 42.1.
sorry, works perfectly here even in LANG=en_US
Which you set or changed how? Here it never got changed, as it's the default. Did you check with a fresh installation that did not choose a localization? -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 07/04/2018 à 10:03, Felix Miata a écrit :
jdd@dodin.org composed on 2018-04-07 08:51 (UTC+0200):
sorry, works perfectly here even in LANG=en_US
Which you set or changed how?
open a root terminal,type #LANG=en_US #yast and voilà jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
jdd@dodin.org composed on 2018-04-07 10:19 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed:
jdd@dodin.org composed on 2018-04-07 08:51 (UTC+0200):
sorry, works perfectly here even in LANG=en_US
Which you set or changed how?
open a root terminal,type
#LANG=en_US #yast
and voilà
So by running LANG= first, and having previously configured for French, you are not likely using the installation default. No such result here whether or not I run LANG=en_US before starting ncurses yast. I used installation default for root for all testing previously mentioned in this thread, which it turns out apparently isn't necessarily en_US after all: # grep RETT /etc/os-release PRETTY_NAME="openSUSE Leap 42.3" # set | grep LANG LANG=POSIX for lc in LANG LC_CTYPE LC_NUMERIC LC_TIME LC_COLLATE LC_MONETARY LC_MESSAGES LC_PAPER LC_NAMELC_ADDRESS LC_TELEPHONE LC_MEASUREMENT LC_IDENTIFICATION LC_ALL; I get same LANG results with TW and with 15.0B, and I used only vtty3, no Xorg terminal emulator. -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 07/04/2018 à 10:57, Felix Miata a écrit :
not likely using the installation default.
for sure, I used installation default *for french* others have to say if it's different for us default I notice that you have en_US when I expected us_US (then may be utf8) mine is LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8 jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
David C. Rankin composed on 2018-04-06 22:46 (UTC-0500):
in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much.
shift tab works usually
Not in the text mode yast -- anymore. It's like someone put the tab and shift-tab order in a bucket and shuffled them.
Pressing `tab` does in no way imply that you can `shift-tab` back to the previous items.
No rhyme or reason. I found it easier just to tab all the way back around.
I'm not even sure that shift-tab will even cycle from end to beginning and back to end anymore....
I just tried "System" in Ncurses YaST in 15.0B, 13.2, 42.1 and 42.2. Obviously there is a regression somewhere in between 42.1 and 42.2. In 13.1, 13.2 and 42.1 shift-tab obviously reverses direction compared to pure tab, whereas in 15 and 42.2 it's as if there was no depressed shift key even though it is. I searched, and didn't find any YaST2 bug on point, but I'm not going to file one. Somebody who doesn't mind using Ncurses YaST more than once or twice in a lifetime should be subjected to the follow-up filing that bug will necessitate, while the bugs I've filed lately (12 since 1 Jan of which none fixed; 1 wontfix, 1 invalid, 2 dup, 7 new; 1 in_progress) don't seem to be generating much interest from devs. -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-04-07 08:15, Felix Miata wrote:
David C. Rankin composed on 2018-04-06 22:46 (UTC-0500):
...
I'm not even sure that shift-tab will even cycle from end to beginning and back to end anymore....
I just tried "System" in Ncurses YaST in 15.0B, 13.2, 42.1 and 42.2. Obviously there is a regression somewhere in between 42.1 and 42.2. In 13.1, 13.2 and 42.1 shift-tab obviously reverses direction compared to pure tab, whereas in 15 and 42.2 it's as if there was no depressed shift key even though it is.
Which "System"? There are several: After selecting "System" on the left panel there are several entries for choosing on the right hand panel: YaST2 - menu @ Minas-Anor.Valinor ┌─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ YaST Control Center │ └─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ ┌────────────────────┐ ┌──────────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │Software │ │/etc/sysconfig Editor │ │System │ │Boot Loader │ │Hardware │ │Date and Time │ │Network Services │ │Fonts │ │Security and Users │ │Kernel Settings │ │Virtualization │ │Language │ │Support │ │Network Settings │ │Miscellaneous │ │Partitioner │ │ │ │Services Manager │ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ │ └────────────────────┘ └──────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ [Help] [Run][Quit] F1 Help F9 Quit
I searched, and didn't find any YaST2 bug on point, but I'm not going to file one. Somebody who doesn't mind using Ncurses YaST more than once or twice in a lifetime should be subjected to the follow-up filing that bug will necessitate, while the bugs I've filed lately (12 since 1 Jan of which none fixed; 1 wontfix, 1 invalid, 2 dup, 7 new; 1 in_progress) don't seem to be generating much interest from devs.
-- Cheers/Saludos Carlos E. R. (testing openSUSE Leap 15.0, at Minas-Anor) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/06/2018 02:15 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2018-04-06 20:00, ken wrote:
the pinball tab-order What does this mean? To move the "action" from one control to another in YaST in text mode we can not use the mouse (even if the terminal does support mouse). We have to use the [TAB], and see the highlight jump from one control to another in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much.
XD Okay, yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about. Been there. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 20:15:38 +0200 Carlos E. R. wrote:
To move the "action" from one control to another in YaST in text mode we can not use the mouse (even if the terminal does support mouse). We have to use the [TAB], and see the highlight jump from one control to another in what seems somewhat random order, pin ball like. And can't go back one single step if you click one [tab] too much.
'Tab' in an ncurses based TUI typically navigates the focus from left to right, top to bottom, unless the 'on exit' instruction in a particular section or field has been programmed differently. 'Shift+Tab' switches direction, so it is actually quite trivial to 'back up' when this happens. :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/04/18 11:13 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
The last surprise was the missing convenience directives in /etc/pam.d/su that no longer provided an easy uncomment to allow users of 'wheel' to su without a password, e.g.
# Uncomment the following line to implicitly trust users in the "wheel" group. auth sufficient pam_wheel.so trust use_uid # Uncomment the following line to require a user to be in the "wheel" group. auth required pam_wheel.so use_uid
... the removal may be a security enhancement, but thankfully I have a ssh client on my phone that I could jump on an older install and get the details (heaven know I didn't recall the specifics)
ironically, not only have the lines in /etc/pam.d/su been removed, but, so far as I can find, so has pam_wheel.so. Ironically it's all still there # rpm -ql pam | grep wheel /lib64/security/pam_wheel.so /usr/share/man/man8/pam_wheel.8.gz # rpm -qf /usr/share/man/man8/pam_wheel.8.gz pam-1.3.0-16.1.x86_64 main:/etc/pam.d # zypper info pam Information for package pam: ---------------------------- Repository : openSUSE-Leap-42.3-Update <----------------- Name : pam Version : 1.3.0-16.1 Arch : x86_64 Vendor : openSUSE Installed Size : 1.5 MiB Installed : Yes Status : up-to-date Source package : pam-1.3.0-16.1.src Do you have the update repository enabled? # rpm -qf /etc/pam.d/su util-linux-2.29.2-5.1.x86_64 main:/etc/pam.d # zypper info util-linux Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Information for package util-linux: ----------------------------------- Repository : openSUSE-Leap-42.3-Update Name : util-linux Version : 2.29.2-5.1 Arch : x86_64 Vendor : openSUSE Installed Size : 3.7 MiB Installed : Yes Status : up-to-date -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/2018 06:39 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 02/04/18 11:13 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
The last surprise was the missing convenience directives in /etc/pam.d/su that no longer provided an easy uncomment to allow users of 'wheel' to su without a password, e.g.
# Uncomment the following line to implicitly trust users in the "wheel" group. auth sufficient pam_wheel.so trust use_uid # Uncomment the following line to require a user to be in the "wheel" group. auth required pam_wheel.so use_uid
... the removal may be a security enhancement, but thankfully I have a ssh client on my phone that I could jump on an older install and get the details (heaven know I didn't recall the specifics) ironically, not only have the lines in /etc/pam.d/su been removed, but, so far as I can find, so has pam_wheel.so.
Ironically it's all still there # rpm -ql pam | grep wheel /lib64/security/pam_wheel.so /usr/share/man/man8/pam_wheel.8.gz
The good part is the functionality must now be part of pam, because I added the lines to /etc/pam.d/su (and after adding myself to wheel) PRESTO, I su without a password like always. I haven't had time to run-down where the functionality is hidden not, but I can confirm it is there. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/04/18 10:33 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
The good part is the functionality must now be part of pam, because I added the lines to /etc/pam.d/su (and after adding myself to wheel) PRESTO, I su without a password like always.
I added the lines but it doesn't work for me. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/04/2018 07:11 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
I added the lines but it doesn't work for me.
You be a member of `wheel` too, right? I have in /etc/pam.d/su auth sufficient pam_rootok.so auth sufficient pam_wheel.so trust use_uid auth required pam_wheel.so use_uid auth include common-auth account sufficient pam_rootok.so account include common-account password include common-password session include common-session session optional pam_xauth.so and I have the following packages installed: gnome-keyring-pam-3.20.0-7.1.x86_64 gnome-keyring-pam-32bit-3.20.0-7.1.x86_64 pam-1.3.0-16.1.x86_64 pam-32bit-1.3.0-16.1.x86_64 pam-config-0.91-3.3.x86_64 pam-devel-1.3.0-16.1.x86_64 pam-modules-12.1-29.3.x86_64 pam-modules-32bit-12.1-29.3.x86_64 -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/02/2018 11:13 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
The good parts of the install, after nuking the btrfs suggestion and the secondary non-native XFS suggestion and dropping back to the wasteful old ext4 that has never lost a file for me in a decade, the remainder went great. Both wired and wireless Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection (wired) and Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (wireless) -- so kudos to that.
This is quite different from my experience: After setting up the filesystem and selecting packages to install, the only option I got from the install program (whatever it's called) was to reboot. I never got the opportunity to set up any networking, not even a hostname or domain name (did those manually later, after the install "finished") with some generic names. Normally I have everything here on static IPs. Thank goodness I set up my router (long ago) to accommodate dynamic IPs, because I was running the Leap Net Install. Is this normal, having no chance to configure networking? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2018-04-03 20:03, ken wrote:
On 04/02/2018 11:13 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
The good parts of the install, after nuking the btrfs suggestion and the secondary non-native XFS suggestion and dropping back to the wasteful old ext4 that has never lost a file for me in a decade, the remainder went great. Both wired and wireless Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection (wired) and Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (wireless) -- so kudos to that.
This is quite different from my experience: After setting up the filesystem and selecting packages to install, the only option I got from the install program (whatever it's called) was to reboot. I never got the opportunity to set up any networking, not even a hostname or domain name (did those manually later, after the install "finished") with some generic names. Normally I have everything here on static IPs. Thank goodness I set up my router (long ago) to accommodate dynamic IPs, because I was running the Leap Net Install. Is this normal, having no chance to configure networking?
The network install media has different options than the "dvd" install media. Via network install the network is active since the very start. Even the installation system is downloaded via network. There is some chance to configure network, but I think it was via boot options. Other people accustomed to that install method can better tell you than me. The DVD instead boots and asks some questions before it reaches the point of asking about network. <https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book.opensuse.startup/cha.inst.html#sec.i.yast2.method> It says: «If no DHCP is available, choose F4 Source › Network Config › Manual and enter the network data.» -- Cheers/Saludos Carlos E. R. (testing openSUSE Leap 15.0, at Minas-Anor) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/03/2018 01:03 PM, ken wrote:
This is quite different from my experience: After setting up the filesystem and selecting packages to install, the only option I got from the install program (whatever it's called) was to reboot. I never got the opportunity to set up any networking, not even a hostname or domain name (did those manually later, after the install "finished") with some generic names. Normally I have everything here on static IPs. Thank goodness I set up my router (long ago) to accommodate dynamic IPs, because I was running the Leap Net Install. Is this normal, having no chance to configure networking?
Sorry, What I meant was the devices were configured properly, and since I installed via wired with DHCP, that device was completely configure, and on reboot, all I had to do was fire up the command line version of yast and configure the wireless network ESSID and WPA passphrase to finalize the network. (and THANK GOD 42.3 doesn't have the same built in 50 sec boot delay on network start that 42.2 did for me) Almost done moving config from 42.2 over to the shiny new ssd (all those annoying little parts like /usr/share/icons and /usr/share/themes and /opt/kde/share/apps/ksplash and /opt/kde/share/config/kdm, samba, and all the other nits. Sticking with nouveau this time, I want my enhanced console resolution (and nice graphical boot trident) this time. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
Anton Aylward -
Carl Hartung -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
David C. Rankin -
Felix Miata -
jdd＠dodin.org -
ken -
Patrick Shanahan