[opensuse] Protected Kernel Replaced by 10.2 Update
My / partition has limited freespace, so I didn't want to add new or unnecessary stuff. I depend on smbfs, so didn't want a new kernel to force me to install sources, recompile, and run out of freespace on /. So I: 1-opened YaST Control Center 2-clicked Software Management 3-selected package groups 4-clicked zzz All 5-scrolled down to kernel-default 6-right clicked 7-selected Protected 8-selected kerry 9-right clicked 10-selected all in this list 11-selected update if newer version available 12-clicked Accept YaST then proceeded to update what needed updateing, and to delete 2.6.18.2-34 and install the latest kernel version. I am not happy about this. Did I get the procedure wrong, or is protection from kernel upgrade broken? One of the nicest things about Mandriva is urpmi won't replace any kernel automatically. Kernel upgrade there only happens by explicit request. I wish SUSE/YaST was as intelligent. Then I could update whenever updates were available instead of putting it off for months at a time. -- "Respect everyone." I Peter 2:17 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Felix Miata
One of the nicest things about Mandriva is urpmi won't replace any kernel automatically. Kernel upgrade there only happens by explicit request. I wish SUSE/YaST was as intelligent. Then I could update whenever updates were available instead of putting it off for months at a time.
I use smart and it allows for multiple bootable kernels. When I upgrade kernel, I *always* retain the last *solid* performer (or 2). And have had several occasions to need to return to earlier versions. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2007/06/22 11:44 (GMT-0400) Patrick Shanahan apparently typed:
* Felix Miata
[06-22-07 11:37]: [...] One of the nicest things about Mandriva is urpmi won't replace any kernel automatically. Kernel upgrade there only happens by explicit request. I wish SUSE/YaST was as intelligent. Then I could update whenever updates were available instead of putting it off for months at a time.
I use smart and it allows for multiple bootable kernels.
I've seen you report this previously, but what set me to preferring SUSE over other distros in the first place was YaST. Once upon a time YaST was bulletproof. Now with several years of Novell management under the bridge it seems this SUSE attraction has nearly completed dying. OTOH, to me the Smart UI is best described as mystery meat. I hover over several toolbar icons, and get no tooltips to tell me what they're for. I open it up and it says on the statusbar "No interesting upgrades available!", while providing no apparent way to find out what non-interesting upgrades might be available. It has an icon for updating all packages, but none for updating installed packages. It has no menu item for configuration or preferences. How can normal people use such an un-smart tool? -- "Respect everyone." I Peter 2:17 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 22 June 2007, Felix Miata wrote:
OTOH, to me the Smart UI is best described as mystery meat.
My sentiments exactly. I found it essentially unusable. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
OTOH, to me the Smart UI is best described as mystery meat.
My sentiments exactly. I found it essentially unusable.
I'm another Smart hater. The UI is one of the WORST designed package manager UIs next to that travesty that Novell foisted on us with 10.1. Give us back Synaptic... at least that UI was somewhat logical and usable. :-( -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Felix Miata
I've seen you report this previously, but what set me to preferring SUSE over other distros in the first place was YaST. Once upon a time YaST was bulletproof. Now with several years of Novell management under the bridge it seems this SUSE attraction has nearly completed dying.
I disagree, but do prefer smart for package management, and apt-get before that.
OTOH, to me the Smart UI is best described as mystery meat.
You do have to use it and as with most things, it requires a little learning.
I hover over several toolbar icons, and get no tooltips to tell me what they're for.
goodness, I have not even seen the "toolbar icons", etc. Tooltips??
I open it up and it says on the statusbar "No interesting upgrades available!", while providing no apparent way to find out what non-interesting upgrades might be available.
It will only provide upgrades for installed software and ONLY from repositories that YOU have configured :^)
It has an icon for updating all packages, but none for updating installed packages.
Just how do you update a package that is not installed?
It has no menu item for configuration or preferences. How can normal people use such an un-smart tool?
It is a "smart" tool. But, as with nearly every tool, mechanical and software, a little learning and effort *is* required. READ THE DOCs. It appears from your statements that you have not looked at them. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2007-06-22 at 16:23 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote: ...
READ THE DOCs. It appears from your statements that you have not looked at them.
As a rule, I dislike any GUI program that require me to read the docs first. That's a no-no. They should be self-explanatory. :-P - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGfDHatTMYHG2NR9URAnTsAJ4kot4x4OpqlgUJh9cKi0FSZzlHFgCcC5Mq Vv/vSLEj4QVRGQzeti8lPWk= =AwgG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2007/06/22 16:23 (GMT-0400) Patrick Shanahan apparently typed:
* Felix Miata
[06-22-07 15:19]:
OTOH, to me the Smart UI is best described as mystery meat.
You do have to use it and as with most things, it requires a little learning.
In this case, more than a little learning.
I hover over several toolbar icons, and get no tooltips to tell me what they're for.
goodness, I have not even seen the "toolbar icons", etc. Tooltips??
Icons right there between the main menu's File Edit View and Help and the following column headings for Package and Version. Tooltips are the expected result of hovering over a toolbar icon that doesn't have full time accompanying text to describe its reason for existence.
I open it up and it says on the statusbar "No interesting upgrades available!", while providing no apparent way to find out what non-interesting upgrades might be available.
It will only provide upgrades for installed software
Nothing about its UI makes that apparent to me.
and ONLY from repositories that YOU have configured :^)
That I have configured, or that YOU has configured? Have is a verb to be used only with a plural noun. The app YOU is singular noun, an "it". I have configured. YOU has configured. It has configured. You have configured. Grade school grammar. :-p
It has an icon for updating all packages, but none for updating installed packages.
Just how do you update a package that is not installed?
Actually what is says is upgrade. To me that means something more than updating only installed packages - permitting new and previously uninstalled dependant packages to be included with the upgrade of the installed packages. With kernels the version is part of the package name, so a kernel upgrade/update amounts to a new package. You said Smart does not install a newer kernel version by default, which is good. Too bad YaST doesn't understand and implement this concept. :-(
It has no menu item for configuration or preferences. How can normal people use such an un-smart tool?
It is a "smart" tool. But, as with nearly every tool, mechanical and software, a little learning and effort *is* required.
With this one I tried a few times. Little IMO is an understatement here.
READ THE DOCs. It appears from your statements that you have not looked at them.
Exactly. GUI tool basics ought to be 100% intuitive, needing no fumbling to find any docs. I've looked at Smart several times over the past couple years and never found much intuitive about it. Adept is the only similar tool I've found to be less friendly. On the bright side, at least Smart is there as an alternative to the tool SUSE users traditionally expect to just work. -- "Respect everyone." I Peter 2:17 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Felix Miata
Icons right there between the main menu's File Edit View and Help and the following column headings for Package and Version. Tooltips are the expected result of hovering over a toolbar icon that doesn't have full time accompanying text to describe its reason for existence.
I don't use the gui, preferring the command-line.
I open it up and it says on the statusbar "No interesting upgrades available!", while providing no apparent way to find out what non-interesting upgrades might be available.
It will only provide upgrades for installed software
Nothing about its UI makes that apparent to me.
I guess your head is just utilized as a hat rack?
and ONLY from repositories that YOU have configured :^)
That I have configured, or that YOU has configured? Have is a verb to be used only with a plural noun. The app YOU is singular noun, an "it". I have configured. YOU has configured. It has configured. You have configured. Grade school grammar. :-p
Now you're being ridiculous. The pronoun, you, was capitalized for emphasis or shouting, your choise. That pronoun happens to be both singular and/or plural according to context. It was use properly, you need to return to the books.
From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]:
Note: Though you is properly a plural, it is in all ordinary discourse used also in addressing a single person, yet properly always with a plural verb. "Are you he that hangs the verses on the trees, wherein Rosalind is so admired ?" --Shak. You and your are sometimes used indefinitely, like we, they, one, to express persons not specified. "The looks at a distance like a new-plowed land; but as you come near it, you see nothing but a long heap of heavy, disjointed clods." --Addison. "Your medalist and critic are much nearer related than the world imagine." --Addison. "It is always pleasant to be forced to do what you wish to do, but what, until pressed, you dare not attempt." --Hook. You is often used reflexively for yourself of yourselves. "Your highness shall repose you at the tower." --Shak. [1913 Webster]
On the bright side, at least Smart is there as an alternative to the tool SUSE users traditionally expect to just work.
there's that "hat rack" again. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 22 June 2007 11:44:20 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Felix Miata
[06-22-07 11:37]: [...] One of the nicest things about Mandriva is urpmi won't replace any kernel automatically. Kernel upgrade there only happens by explicit request. I wish SUSE/YaST was as intelligent. Then I could update whenever updates were available instead of putting it off for months at a time.
I use smart and it allows for multiple bootable kernels. When I upgrade kernel, I *always* retain the last *solid* performer (or 2). And have had several occasions to need to return to earlier versions.
Patrick I use Smart exclusively but Smart replaces my kernel. I have since set the kernel to multi-version and set the lock flag. Is this correct? And if it installs a newer version does it set up Grub and the boot menu? Bob S. BTW what is the latest RKhunter ? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Bob S <911@sanctum.com> [06-23-07 21:45]:
I use Smart exclusively but Smart replaces my kernel. I have since set the kernel to multi-version and set the lock flag. Is this correct?
yes
And if it installs a newer version does it set up Grub and the boot menu?
yes
BTW what is the latest RKhunter ?
his web site says 1.2.9 http://www.rootkit.nl/projects/rootkit_hunter.html the latest rpm for openSUSE that I see is 1.2.9: http://software.opensuse.org/download/home:/lemmy04/openSUSE_10.2 http://software.opensuse.org/download/home:/lemmy04/SUSE_Linux_10.1 http://benjiweber.co.uk:8080/webpin/ a web based pin for openSUSE man pin 21:56 wahoo:~ > rpm -qf which pin pin-0.35-10 -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 23 June 2007 21:55:55 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Bob S <911@sanctum.com> [06-23-07 21:45]:
I use Smart exclusively but Smart replaces my kernel. I have since set the kernel to multi-version and set the lock flag. Is this correct?
yes
And if it installs a newer version does it set up Grub and the boot menu?
yes
BTW what is the latest RKhunter ?
his web site says 1.2.9 http://www.rootkit.nl/projects/rootkit_hunter.html
Thanks Patrick, I installed rkhunter with Smart. Lost it when I upgraded from 10.0 to 10.2 Bob S. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2007-06-22 at 11:33 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
1-opened YaST Control Center 2-clicked Software Management 3-selected package groups 4-clicked zzz All 5-scrolled down to kernel-default 6-right clicked 7-selected Protected 8-selected kerry 9-right clicked 10-selected all in this list 11-selected update if newer version available 12-clicked Accept
YaST then proceeded to update what needed updateing, and to delete 2.6.18.2-34 and install the latest kernel version. I am not happy about this. Did I get the procedure wrong, or is protection from kernel upgrade broken?
Protected status is not permanent, it doesn't survive across yast sessions. And, by selecting "update if newer version" you override the p. status. A bug, IMO. And reported: [Bug 246928] Yast YOU does not respect protected status. And not solved. What you can do is getting used to select to view what Yast is going to install, and check one by one that there is nothing you do not want there. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGfC0atTMYHG2NR9URAgqUAJ9ony/2WPZGpn3R9bM/tfehiILmvACfSKwt 9JMIxPiQnD/1SLa8eyTGQtc= =pN5i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Carlos E. R.
What you can do is getting used to select to view what Yast is going to install, and check one by one that there is nothing you do not want there.
You mean to say that even yast requires some effort and a little learning? My gosh, were back to rtfm. I guess that's what their for :^). tks, -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2007-06-22 at 16:25 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Carlos E. R.
[06-22-07 16:14]: What you can do is getting used to select to view what Yast is going to install, and check one by one that there is nothing you do not want there.
You mean to say that even yast requires some effort and a little learning?
My gosh, were back to rtfm. I guess that's what their for :^).
Bugs require reading about them. They are bugs, so they can: they don't follow rules :-P Otherwise, I don't read the fu^Hlipping Yast manual :-P - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGfEydtTMYHG2NR9URAszIAJ9ROmp7TW4DnADw0RtzXG3XyxcxIACgmWEv iTLyFO23ZlZv4Q+dnuXVB6s= =l/w8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2007/06/22 22:12 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. apparently typed:
The Friday 2007-06-22 at 11:33 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
YaST then proceeded to update what needed updateing, and to delete 2.6.18.2-34 and install the latest kernel version. I am not happy about this. Did I get the procedure wrong, or is protection from kernel upgrade broken?
Protected status is not permanent, it doesn't survive across yast sessions. And, by selecting "update if newer version" you override the p. status. A bug, IMO. And reported:
[Bug 246928] Yast YOU does not respect protected status.
And not solved.
I've copied my original post as a comment there.
What you can do is getting used to select to view what Yast is going to install, and check one by one that there is nothing you do not want there.
Thanks Carlos. I hope I will remember next time. It's a shame to need to. -- "Respect everyone." I Peter 2:17 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2007-06-22 at 16:31 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: ...
I've copied my original post as a comment there.
Yep, just seen the email from bugzilla.
What you can do is getting used to select to view what Yast is going to install, and check one by one that there is nothing you do not want there.
Thanks Carlos. I hope I will remember next time. It's a shame to need to.
It bits me now and then... I forget with time, till I get bitten again. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGfDRRtTMYHG2NR9URAit/AJ0b5G6YZLKWlPafYuy0pqCGZgrXSQCeI9Ys vs2JaWU6KAXdbZniL7J67rQ= =RL94 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
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Bob S
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Carlos E. R.
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Clayton
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Felix Miata
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John Andersen
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Patrick Shanahan