[opensuse] For Which Repositories Is "Automatically Refresh" Unuseful?
Hi, I was wondering if the main repositories: - Main Repository (OSS) - Main Repository (NON-OSS) are changing now that the final release has been made? If not, I'd turn of "Automatically Refresh" on these repositories to speed start-up of Software Management and other package management-related administrative programs. Are these (or any) repositories now unchanging? Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 30 October 2007 12:15:16 pm Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
I was wondering if the main repositories:
- Main Repository (OSS) - Main Repository (NON-OSS)
are changing now that the final release has been made? If not, I'd turn of "Automatically Refresh" on these repositories to speed start-up of Software Management and other package management-related administrative programs.
Are these (or any) repositories now unchanging?
Randall Schulz
yes, those sources should not change and should not need auto refreshing. I actually filed in a bug report about this issue saying there is no reason that the repos should be auto refresh, and after being closed as "WONTFIX" it was stated that they will change. When they closed with WONTFIX I was suprised since Novell should be doing EVERYTHING they can to trim of milliseconds off of the packaging management. Also.. I don't have it auto update anything except the ones I want to check often. I typically will just update the other buildservices manually. Ben -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 30 October 2007 13:11, Ben Kevan wrote:
On Tuesday 30 October 2007 12:15:16 pm Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
I was wondering if the main repositories:
- Main Repository (OSS) - Main Repository (NON-OSS)
are changing now that the final release has been made? If not, I'd turn of "Automatically Refresh" on these repositories to speed start-up of Software Management and other package management-related administrative programs.
Are these (or any) repositories now unchanging?
Randall Schulz
yes, those sources should not change and should not need auto refreshing.
I actually filed in a bug report about this issue saying there is no reason that the repos should be auto refresh, and after being closed as "WONTFIX" it was stated that they will change.
I know package management has changed a lot since 10.0, but I expect that when a repository changes it's still detected (even if that happens at the point when you go ahead with an installation). So any repository that will change infrequently (which probably characterizes the Main Repositories even if it's certainly _not_ the case for, say Packman) means that it's probably a net win to turn off auto-refresh for mostly stable repos.
When they closed with WONTFIX I was suprised since Novell should be doing EVERYTHING they can to trim of milliseconds off of the packaging management.
Well, if they're not literally fixed, then I can kind of see their point. If they made them non auto-refresh and the repository changed, they'd probably get a slew of bug reports from people not familiar with all the ins and outs of the package manament system, which is not the simplest thing there is, I'd say.
Also.. I don't have it auto update anything except the ones I want to check often. I typically will just update the other buildservices manually.
Ben
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
When they closed with WONTFIX I was suprised since Novell should be doing EVERYTHING they can to trim of milliseconds off of the packaging management.
Well, if they're not literally fixed, then I can kind of see their point. If they made them non auto-refresh and the repository changed, they'd probably get a slew of bug reports from people not familiar with all the ins and outs of the package manament system, which is not the simplest thing there is, I'd say.
Randall Schulz
It was actually entered as an enhancement and not a fixable bug, but closed with WONTFIX. How will they get bug reports? People shouldn't ever need the repo udpate since any updates should be released under the Updates Repository and not the OSS / NON-OSS Source. The OSS / NON-OSS Source should NEVER Change. Ben -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 30 October 2007 15:27, Ben Kevan wrote:
When they closed with WONTFIX I was suprised since Novell should be doing EVERYTHING they can to trim of milliseconds off of the packaging management.
Well, if they're not literally fixed, then I can kind of see their point. If they made them non auto-refresh and the repository changed, they'd probably get a slew of bug reports from people not familiar with all the ins and outs of the package manament system, which is not the simplest thing there is, I'd say.
Randall Schulz
It was actually entered as an enhancement and not a fixable bug, but closed with WONTFIX. How will they get bug reports?
Well, they (Novell / SUSE) will get complaints, reports of malfunctions, or people throwing up their hands and walking away (without even bothering to let the vendor know). It's the principal of least surprise. As it stands, errors are precluded at the expense of start-up time. It's a defensible position.
People shouldn't ever need the repo udpate since any updates should be released under the Updates Repository and not the OSS / NON-OSS Source.
That, apparently, is a matter of opinion / design decision. You made your case. The engineers disagreed. Whadd'ya' gonna' do?
The OSS / NON-OSS Source should NEVER Change.
At the moment, given what I do now know, I agree. But if that's not the case, then one can see their point in setting these repositories to Automatically Refresh. But my way would be more of an "experts" setting, if you will.
Ben
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Well, they (Novell / SUSE) will get complaints, reports of malfunctions, or people throwing up their hands and walking away (without even bothering to let the vendor know).
It's the principal of least surprise. As it stands, errors are precluded at the expense of start-up time. It's a defensible position.
I don't understand this. What will there be to complain about? The source shouldn't be upgraded by design. Updates / Changes should be pushed via the "Update" repository. I understand there may be reasons to change the source, but if that's done it should be changed to "Gold Master" and an update to change the sources should be pushed to the new source. That's right, and update to point the old source to the new (esp with how zipper takes care of repos now. The suprrise would be a change being pushed via the OSS / NON-OSS repository, not surprised there isn't a change.
That, apparently, is a matter of opinion / design decision. You made your case. The engineers disagreed. Whadd'ya' gonna' do?
They said they were going to change after some persistance by my stubborness I guess. But I think strides to speed up repo should be done. Ben -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 30 October 2007 19:33, Ben Kevan wrote:
Well, they (Novell / SUSE) will get complaints, reports of malfunctions, or people throwing up their hands and walking away (without even bothering to let the vendor know).
It's the principal of least surprise. As it stands, errors are precluded at the expense of start-up time. It's a defensible position.
I don't understand this. What will there be to complain about? The source shouldn't be upgraded by design.
I'm simply taking Novell (via you) at your collective words that sometimes the Main Repositories are changed. If that's true, then to disable automatic refresh leaves open the possibility of an error during certain package management operations. At least it did in 10.0. I haven't yet seen it happen on 10.3, but I just today turnd off automatic refresh on the two Main Repositories defined in my package management configuration.
Updates / Changes should be pushed via the "Update" repository.
Well, "should" is a matter of opinion. I tend to agree, but my understanding of the whole business is superficial, at best.
...
Ben
Randall Shculz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Tuesday 30 October 2007 19:33, Ben Kevan wrote:
Well, they (Novell / SUSE) will get complaints, reports of malfunctions, or people throwing up their hands and walking away (without even bothering to let the vendor know).
It's the principal of least surprise. As it stands, errors are precluded at the expense of start-up time. It's a defensible position. I don't understand this. What will there be to complain about? The source shouldn't be upgraded by design.
I'm simply taking Novell (via you) at your collective words that sometimes the Main Repositories are changed. If that's true, then to disable automatic refresh leaves open the possibility of an error during certain package management operations. At least it did in 10.0. I haven't yet seen it happen on 10.3, but I just today turnd off automatic refresh on the two Main Repositories defined in my package management configuration.
I've done the same. Autorefresh bothers me even for changing repos, not because of the check-if-changed overhead (it's not that much), but because of the time you have to wait until the repo refreshes if changed even if i intend only to search for some package or so. Simply put, with autorefresh, the refreshing hits you quite unexpectedly. With autorefresh off, you always have the possibility to refresh manually whenever you want, or if a problem with the repo occurs (e.g. rpm file not found when trying to install). Jano -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 30/10/2007, Ben Kevan
The OSS / NON-OSS Source should NEVER Change.
Ordinarily yes, in the past there has been a change for a licence legal issue I believe. However, checking whether a repository needs refreshing is a very quick operation anyway. A matter of bytes to download. The slow operations are actually refreshing repositories when that is required (packman updates nearly every single hour meaning a new 5mb download) and reading the repository caches into memory if you have slow hard disk. -- Benjamin Weber -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 15:27 -0700, Ben Kevan wrote:
When they closed with WONTFIX I was suprised since Novell should be doing EVERYTHING they can to trim of milliseconds off of the packaging management.
Well, if they're not literally fixed, then I can kind of see their point. If they made them non auto-refresh and the repository changed, they'd probably get a slew of bug reports from people not familiar with all the ins and outs of the package manament system, which is not the simplest thing there is, I'd say.
Randall Schulz
It was actually entered as an enhancement and not a fixable bug, but closed with WONTFIX. How will they get bug reports? People shouldn't ever need the repo udpate since any updates should be released under the Updates Repository and not the OSS / NON-OSS Source.
The OSS / NON-OSS Source should NEVER Change.
Ben
You can turn it of off if you don't want it. I can understand novell's point thought. I just files a bugreport about a missing version of 32-bit version of gtkglext ( https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=337846 ) They fixed this immediately for the openSUSE OSS / NON-OSS repo's. -- Regards, Aniruddha Please adhere to the OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
I was wondering if the main repositories:
- Main Repository (OSS) - Main Repository (NON-OSS)
are changing now that the final release has been made? If not, I'd turn of "Automatically Refresh" on these repositories to speed start-up of Software Management and other package management-related administrative programs.
Are these (or any) repositories now unchanging?
Randall Schulz
normally these dirs don't change anymore after release, however in the past there where at least one "patched dvd" jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz
Hi,
I was wondering if the main repositories:
- Main Repository (OSS) - Main Repository (NON-OSS)
are changing now that the final release has been made? If not, I'd turn of "Automatically Refresh" on these repositories to speed start-up of Software Management and other package management-related administrative programs.
Are these (or any) repositories now unchanging?
These are AFAIK the only two online repos that should be unchanging. Additionaly if you add physical media, those are unchanging as well. We do not plan to change the ftp repos of 10.3, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform/openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
participants (7)
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Andreas Jaeger -
Aniruddha -
Ben Kevan -
Benji Weber -
Jan Kupec -
jdd -
Randall R Schulz