The success of Windows rests on three pillars: 1) The acceptance of Windows as a game console. This is what most home PCs are used for. The typical Windows user wants out-of-the-box games compatibility. Just insert the CD! 2) The adoption of Word as a format for the exchange of documents. How many times have you not received a Word document in mail or via a web page? And with consistent regularity, it will have been made with a Word version later than the one you have, which forces you to upgrade. And the latest version of Word/Excel/etc is only available on the Windows platform... (This is, BTW, what killed NT on the RISC platforms (Mips, PowerPC, Alpha). There was ONLY Windows available, no office applications, which forced every user who needed the extra muscle offered by RISC to have two workstations at his/her desk.) 3) The adoption of Exchange in the business community. This immediately forces all clients to use Outlook, which is only available on Windows. Yes, you can use POP3/IMAP/SMTP, but you'll miss out on all the "extra" group-ware utilities bundled with Exchange. (I've heard a rumour that the Web-interface of Exchange2000 can do everything Outlook can, but I'll bet that only applies to users of IE5+ on Windows...) Linux needs to counter Windows on all three fronts by offering 99.9% Windows compatibility + superior features, otherwise the common non-techie person won't stand the hassle of converting. /Lennart -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: yamaska.mail [mailto:yamaska.mail@planet.nl] Skickat: den 31 maj 2001 18:27 Till: j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net Kopia: suse-linux-e@suse.com Ämne: Re: [SLE] suse 7.2!! Worse yet, you don't even get Visual Basic, they make you buy this as well !!! Greetz Pete (A newbie)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Drews" <j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> To: "Ben Rosenberg" <ben@whack.org> Cc: <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Sent: Thursday, 31 May, 2001 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [SLE] suse 7.2!!
On Wednesday 30 May 2001 22:51, Ben wrote:
I would rather pay $50 every 6 months then $300 (W2K Feb 2000) then have to spend another $150-200 for XP 18 months later..and when Linux improves..it impoves..it's not just cosmetic most of the time. This is just my opinion.
I would rather pay $300.00 for 3 Linux Distros than be given Microsoft Windows for free.
How the hell M$ sold so much software is a mystery to me. It's really pathetic stuff. The detractors of Linux say it comes with no applications. Are these people brain dead? All Linux distros come with C, C++, Python and Perl. All you get with M$ is Visual Basic. I'd rather use my K+E Log-Log Duplex Decitrig slide rule that that stuff.
-- Cheers,
Jonathan
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
Hi! I would add one more reason to explain the popularity of Windows/Office package: piracy (and hence a software that is almost FREE). I mean, everybody can get a very cheap copy of the Windows/Office package from a hacker and install it on their computers. IMHO if users would have to pay for installing this package, a lot of them would have simply give up and forget about the M$ SW... That why M$ have resigned the new licensing policy scheme. They know that piracy have also a great positive impact on their success... (in terms of acceptance of their formats: .doc .dll and so on)... That's my opinion. Regards, Jose. -----Mensaje original----- De: Lennart Börjeson [mailto:LennartB@cinnober.com] Enviado el: viernes, 01 de junio de 2001 12:21 Para: suse-linux-e@suse.com Asunto: SV: [SLE] suse 7.2!! The success of Windows rests on three pillars: 1) The acceptance of Windows as a game console. This is what most home PCs are used for. The typical Windows user wants out-of-the-box games compatibility. Just insert the CD! 2) The adoption of Word as a format for the exchange of documents. How many times have you not received a Word document in mail or via a web page? And with consistent regularity, it will have been made with a Word version later than the one you have, which forces you to upgrade. And the latest version of Word/Excel/etc is only available on the Windows platform... (This is, BTW, what killed NT on the RISC platforms (Mips, PowerPC, Alpha). There was ONLY Windows available, no office applications, which forced every user who needed the extra muscle offered by RISC to have two workstations at his/her desk.) 3) The adoption of Exchange in the business community. This immediately forces all clients to use Outlook, which is only available on Windows. Yes, you can use POP3/IMAP/SMTP, but you'll miss out on all the "extra" group-ware utilities bundled with Exchange. (I've heard a rumour that the Web-interface of Exchange2000 can do everything Outlook can, but I'll bet that only applies to users of IE5+ on Windows...) Linux needs to counter Windows on all three fronts by offering 99.9% Windows compatibility + superior features, otherwise the common non-techie person won't stand the hassle of converting. /Lennart -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: yamaska.mail [mailto:yamaska.mail@planet.nl] Skickat: den 31 maj 2001 18:27 Till: j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net Kopia: suse-linux-e@suse.com Ämne: Re: [SLE] suse 7.2!! Worse yet, you don't even get Visual Basic, they make you buy this as well !!! Greetz Pete (A newbie)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Drews" <j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> To: "Ben Rosenberg" <ben@whack.org> Cc: <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Sent: Thursday, 31 May, 2001 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [SLE] suse 7.2!!
On Wednesday 30 May 2001 22:51, Ben wrote:
I would rather pay $50 every 6 months then $300 (W2K Feb 2000) then have to spend another $150-200 for XP 18 months later..and when Linux improves..it impoves..it's not just cosmetic most of the time. This is just my opinion.
I would rather pay $300.00 for 3 Linux Distros than be given Microsoft Windows for free.
How the hell M$ sold so much software is a mystery to me. It's really pathetic stuff. The detractors of Linux say it comes with no applications. Are these people brain dead? All Linux distros come with C, C++, Python and Perl. All you get with M$ is Visual Basic. I'd rather use my K+E Log-Log Duplex Decitrig slide rule that that stuff.
-- Cheers,
Jonathan
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
* Lennart Börjeson (LennartB@cinnober.com) [010601 03:22]: ->The success of Windows rests on three pillars: -> ->1) The acceptance of Windows as a game console. -> -> This is what most home PCs are used for. The typical Windows -> user wants out-of-the-box games compatibility. Just insert the CD! -> If Loki puts out more games with the ease of install that Tribes2 has..then I would say done to the above. ->2) The adoption of Word as a format for the exchange of documents. -> -> How many times have you not received a Word document in mail or via -> a web page? And with consistent regularity, it will have been made -> with a Word version later than the one you have, which forces you -> to upgrade. And the latest version of Word/Excel/etc is only available -> on the Windows platform... (This is, BTW, what killed NT on the RISC -> platforms (Mips, PowerPC, Alpha). There was ONLY Windows available, no -> office applications, which forced every user who needed the extra -> muscle offered by RISC to have two workstations at his/her desk.) Well, the Windows version of Office is slightly off when it comes to Office for Mac (I know, because my wife SCREAMS about it) and if there was a common format .. a true XML format that all WP's could exchange back and forth..this wouldn't be a problem. Most WP's have common functions these days and look a fair amount a like. This would be very easy to do. But MS embraces and extends everything so we shall see. -> ->3) The adoption of Exchange in the business community. -> -> This immediately forces all clients to use Outlook, which is only -> available on Windows. Yes, you can use POP3/IMAP/SMTP, but you'll miss -> out on all the "extra" group-ware utilities bundled with Exchange. -> -> (I've heard a rumour that the Web-interface of Exchange2000 can do -> everything Outlook can, but I'll bet that only applies to users of -> IE5+ on Windows...) -> Well, it took 3 years to get the Exchange needle into the veins of business. I know this, because I was a doing MS work in 97' and NO one was using Exchange. It was a big battle of backalley deals and stupid upper management decisions that got it where it is today. 3-3.5 years ago..everything was cc:mail and Lotus Notes. I remember working for Anheuser-Busch when they were changing over from Notes to Exchange and it was an upper management decision..that didn't even get asked to the email admin group (about 20 people at the headquarters)..they just said this is what you shall do. So if it can change that quickly to MS from Lotus...then it can change to something else. We just have to show them something better..a methedone solution to their habit. For a long time Linux developers have been concentrating on make the system rock solid and getting it usable by the masses. Linux has been around since 91' but if you think about it. It's only had massive development the last 4 years...so it's not as mature in some areas when it comes to software developed for it. It will get there..have no fear of that. ->Linux needs to counter Windows on all three fronts by offering 99.9% ->Windows compatibility + superior features, otherwise the common ->non-techie person won't stand the hassle of converting. -> It can never be 99.9% compatible, because M$ changes their file formats regularly to trip up their own customers so they must upgrade to the latest version of whatever. If their customers can't keep up...and their formats are closed which have to be reverse engineered .. we can't keep up. I have said over and over again for the last year that I *DO* not think M$ should be broken up. I think they should have to publish their file formats. If there were software out there that can import and export their formats and talk Windows like 2 brothers speaking the same language..they wouldn't stand a chance. If OpenOffice was format compatible completely with MSOffice and had the same ease of use as Office..they couldn't win. They would license and price themselves out of the markets they hold dear. I never want Linux to become like Windows. If it did. I would be going to FreeBSD or I would use Sparc Solaris full-time at home (already do at work). I just want everything to be able to talk to each other and I want to send a document to a co-worker and have them able to read it with no issue and have it formatted in an attractive manner. Just my 2.00 Regards, -- Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org ----- If two men agree on everything, you can be sure that only one of them is doing the thinking.
Ben wrote: For a long time Linux developers have been concentrating on make the system rock solid and getting it usable by the masses. Linux has been around since 91' but if you think about it. It's only had massive development the last 4 years...so it's not as mature in some areas when it comes to software developed for it. It will get there..have no fear of that. I have no fear what so ever. Just anticipation. I think it's exciting to see a product like Linux grow, especially at a grass roots level. You can't keep the masses down. Open Source means that you can't make crappy software and get away with it (at least not in the present environment), it means better code, better security, better fuctionality. As an end-user with no programming ablility it is very gratifying to be able to have a voice in a product and to be able to contribute to the knowledge base (even if it's just by small measures). It takes time to make something of quality. In a world of instant results people get impatient. But considering how quickly development is happening, I don't think I'll have to wait too long to see some very polished product - in fact my current version of SuSE isn't bad, not bad at all. Just my $0.02 U.S. :) Cheers, Curtis
Actually, Exchange web interface is rather problematic. It bring lots of security holes. Therefore not widely accepted and used. It's one of the best types of holes in a system an intruder would love. Oyku Gencay. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lennart Börjeson <LennartB@cinnober.com> To: <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 3:20 AM Subject: SV: [SLE] suse 7.2!!
The success of Windows rests on three pillars:
1) The acceptance of Windows as a game console.
This is what most home PCs are used for. The typical Windows user wants out-of-the-box games compatibility. Just insert the CD!
2) The adoption of Word as a format for the exchange of documents.
How many times have you not received a Word document in mail or via a web page? And with consistent regularity, it will have been made with a Word version later than the one you have, which forces you to upgrade. And the latest version of Word/Excel/etc is only available on the Windows platform... (This is, BTW, what killed NT on the RISC platforms (Mips, PowerPC, Alpha). There was ONLY Windows available, no office applications, which forced every user who needed the extra muscle offered by RISC to have two workstations at his/her desk.)
3) The adoption of Exchange in the business community.
This immediately forces all clients to use Outlook, which is only available on Windows. Yes, you can use POP3/IMAP/SMTP, but you'll miss out on all the "extra" group-ware utilities bundled with Exchange.
(I've heard a rumour that the Web-interface of Exchange2000 can do everything Outlook can, but I'll bet that only applies to users of IE5+ on Windows...)
Linux needs to counter Windows on all three fronts by offering 99.9% Windows compatibility + superior features, otherwise the common non-techie person won't stand the hassle of converting.
/Lennart
-----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: yamaska.mail [mailto:yamaska.mail@planet.nl] Skickat: den 31 maj 2001 18:27 Till: j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net Kopia: suse-linux-e@suse.com Ämne: Re: [SLE] suse 7.2!!
Worse yet, you don't even get Visual Basic, they make you buy this as well !!!
Greetz Pete (A newbie)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Drews" <j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> To: "Ben Rosenberg" <ben@whack.org> Cc: <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Sent: Thursday, 31 May, 2001 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [SLE] suse 7.2!!
On Wednesday 30 May 2001 22:51, Ben wrote:
I would rather pay $50 every 6 months then $300 (W2K Feb 2000) then have to spend another $150-200 for XP 18 months later..and when Linux improves..it impoves..it's not just cosmetic most of the time. This is just my opinion.
I would rather pay $300.00 for 3 Linux Distros than be given Microsoft Windows for free.
How the hell M$ sold so much software is a mystery to me. It's really pathetic stuff. The detractors of Linux say it comes with no applications. Are these people brain dead? All Linux distros come with C, C++, Python and Perl. All you get with M$ is Visual Basic. I'd rather use my K+E Log-Log Duplex Decitrig slide rule that that stuff.
-- Cheers,
Jonathan
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com
On 1 Jun, Lennart Börjeson wrote:
The success of Windows rests on three pillars: <snip...> Linux needs to counter Windows on all three fronts by offering 99.9% Windows compatibility + superior features, otherwise the common non-techie person won't stand the hassle of converting.
You will always lose if your opponent can make the rules. Copying Windows will be a losing game. Because MS will just change the rules, again. That's why OS/2 failed. It was a better Windows than Windows. But it was still just another copy of Windows. Strength is in mobility. Integrated programs are not flexible (mobile). The code grows cumbersome and large. Smaller, self-contained, script friendly programs give more control to a learning/learned user. Instead of a Linux replacement for Exchange, how about a group of programs that replicate the end results of Exchange (calendar, tasks, etc...)? With the focus resting on functionality, not compatibility. -- Robert Wohlfarth rjwohlfar@bigfoot.com "Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?" -- Matthew 6:25b
participants (6)
-
Ben Rosenberg -
Curtis Rey -
José L. Rojano -
Lennart Börjeson -
Oyku Gencay -
rjwohlfar＠bigfoot.com