[opensuse] Re: Separate /usr?
David C. Rankin wrote:
On 08/09/2012 11:11 PM, Rodney Baker wrote:
The FHS is complementary to the LSB which (afaik) openSuSE purports to be more or less compliant with (but I'm open to be corrected if that is wrong). Therefore, openSuSE should also be compliant with the LHS.
It is the "more or less" part that has led to the complete failure of FHS to accomplish the purposes for which it was envisioned. The FHS in its present form is an excellent standard which if complied with would provide for better cross distro portability of all opensource code and accomplish its intended purpose of providing a standard framework of file locations to be relied on by those developing software for Linux. The genesis of the project was to solve the issue years ago of "why do all the good games only run on ms..."
However, instead of embracing FHS, the opensource community created libtool, automake, etc...
This is complete and utter bullsh*t. We created libtool, automake, et.al. to cater for the differences between UNIX(tm) systems, not for those puny differences in file system layout people like you whine about. You obviously don't know about the potential differences one has to care about when one wants to develop, compile, and maintain an application for SunOS (not Solaris!, at least not after 2.2), HP-UX, IRIX, AIX, Tru64 Unix, Ultrix, and -- last, but not least -- Eunice. echo "Congratulations. You aren't running Eunice." --Larry Wall in Configure from the perl distribution (Nowadays Eunice doesn't even have a Wikipedia page anymore.) I was there and was among those people who created this, I am witness. Please do *not* try to rewrite history. You were not part of it. Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod, Roedermark, Germany Email: jschrod@acm.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/14/2012 04:01 PM, Joachim Schrod wrote:
David C. Rankin wrote:
On 08/09/2012 11:11 PM, Rodney Baker wrote:
The FHS is complementary to the LSB which (afaik) openSuSE purports to be more or less compliant with (but I'm open to be corrected if that is wrong). Therefore, openSuSE should also be compliant with the LHS.
It is the "more or less" part that has led to the complete failure of FHS to accomplish the purposes for which it was envisioned. The FHS in its present form is an excellent standard which if complied with would provide for better cross distro portability of all opensource code and accomplish its intended purpose of providing a standard framework of file locations to be relied on by those developing software for Linux. The genesis of the project was to solve the issue years ago of "why do all the good games only run on ms..."
However, instead of embracing FHS, the opensource community created libtool, automake, etc...
This is complete and utter bullsh*t.
We created libtool, automake, et.al. to cater for the differences between UNIX(tm) systems, not for those puny differences in file system layout people like you whine about. You obviously don't know about the potential differences one has to care about when one wants to develop, compile, and maintain an application for SunOS (not Solaris!, at least not after 2.2), HP-UX, IRIX, AIX, Tru64 Unix, Ultrix, and -- last, but not least -- Eunice.
echo "Congratulations. You aren't running Eunice." --Larry Wall in Configure from the perl distribution
(Nowadays Eunice doesn't even have a Wikipedia page anymore.)
I was there and was among those people who created this, I am witness.
Please do *not* try to rewrite history. You were not part of it.
I understood his comment to be limited to opensource, and specifically Linux and variants. But I know what your point is about. Opensource tools are used not only for opensource but for the abovementioned closed source systems and other more proprietary systems as well. Open source generally precedes the opensource movement by decades. I happen to still have some evidence of that. We (the generic "we") need to know a lot more about history like this but it seems to be deprecated as well, except for the hardware histories. Having it written and recorded is very helpful. I've forgotten so much and can't recall everything perfectly so a written record would be an invaluable reference. People coming to opensource and computers in general later on won't know why things are the way they are and will naturally assume that the way things were when they started are the way they've always been. jd -- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, On Tue, 14 Aug 2012, j debert wrote:
On 08/14/2012 04:01 PM, Joachim Schrod wrote:
We created libtool, automake, et.al. to cater for the differences between UNIX(tm) systems, not for those puny differences in file system layout people like you whine about. You obviously don't know about the potential differences one has to care about when one wants to develop, compile, and maintain an application for SunOS (not Solaris!, at least not after 2.2), HP-UX, IRIX, AIX, Tru64 Unix, Ultrix, and -- last, but not least -- Eunice.
echo "Congratulations. You aren't running Eunice."
(Nowadays Eunice doesn't even have a Wikipedia page anymore.)
I was there and was among those people who created this, I am witness.
My condolences.
Open source generally precedes the opensource movement by decades. I happen to still have some evidence of that.
In my opinion, the first real opensource program was and is TeX. ==== ftp://ftp.ctan.org/pub/tex/systems/knuth/dist/tex/tex.web ==== % This program is copyright (C) 1982 by D. E. Knuth; all rights are reserved. % Copying of this file is authorized only if (1) you are D. E. Knuth, or if % (2) you make absolutely no changes to your copy. (The WEB system provides % for alterations via an auxiliary file; the master file should stay intact.) [..] % Version 3.14159 allowed fontmemsize to change; bulletproofing (March 1995). % A reward of $327.68 will be paid to the first finder of any remaining bug, % not counting changes introduced after August 1989. ==== Albeit, not opensource as we're used today with the GPL, as it does not allow to change the original, but it includes a "patch" mechanism which allows you in the extreme case to delete everything and write your own from scratch ;) Basically it's a "as long as you deliver along the unchanged original with this statement, patch it (via WEB), reimplement it, do whatever you like" license ;) And look, where that has went from that original implementation in Pascal. tex (from teTeX/texlive/others, implemented in C), pdftex (C), xetex, luatex, ... And (pdf)(la)TeX and other variants and Makro-packages (e.g. ConTeXt) are "alive and kicking" and still the butt of multi-k-$ typesetting software (which by now all have implemented features first found in TeX/PDFTeX). And, yeah, guess what: my mother and a friend both use pdflatex for generating address labels in bulk from a .csv which they edit with Open/LibreOffice. A bit of scripting and generating LaTeX magic on my part a few years ago ... And they're happy with it. I've also used mySQL + an SQL-query to generate the LaTeX. Oh, and there was the german suse-ML-FAQ. Generated LaTeX via XSLT. *I HATE XML AND XSLT!* Oh, though the FAQ is dead (sadly), I still got a copy and a pdf etc. pp ;) -dnh, selecting two non-random sigs for the occasion -- Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. - Donald Knuth %% "I used to be better at logic problems, before I just dumped them all into TeX and let Knuth pick out the survivors." -- Plorkwort, 26 September 2004 on alt.religion.kibology -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (3)
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David Haller -
j debert -
Joachim Schrod