How about users "desupporting" Suse 9.3 and later.
To All: I do not know how most of you feel, but, instead of worrying about SuSe desupporting any version of same, maybe it is time to "desupport" any new versions , to include 9.3, until they get ALL the bugs out and people have time TO MAKE FULL USE OF WHAT VERSION THEY HAVE!!!!! :-)
On Monday 13 June 2005 01:10 pm, OldSarge wrote:
To All: I do not know how most of you feel, but, instead of worrying about SuSe desupporting any version of same, maybe it is time to "desupport" any new versions , to include 9.3, until they get ALL the bugs out and people have time TO MAKE FULL USE OF WHAT VERSION THEY HAVE!!!!! :-)
Some people can never make *any* release work. Others have no problem. Perhaps there's something unique about your hardware or situation. (from a user who has *never* had major problems with an SuSE release - - now on 9.3 on 5 machines)
On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 13:17 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Monday 13 June 2005 01:10 pm, OldSarge wrote:
To All: I do not know how most of you feel, but, instead of worrying about SuSe desupporting any version of same, maybe it is time to "desupport" any new versions , to include 9.3, until they get ALL the bugs out and people have time TO MAKE FULL USE OF WHAT VERSION THEY HAVE!!!!! :-)
Some people can never make *any* release work. Others have no problem.
Perhaps there's something unique about your hardware or situation.
(from a user who has *never* had major problems with an SuSE release - - now on 9.3 on 5 machines)
I agree with Bruce that it may be some piece of hardware that you are using. Since you don't mention any specific problem we cannot be of any help to you. Simply screeming on this list will not help in solving your problem. I find 9.3 to be the best to date, the first release to fully support all of my hardware. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge
To Mr. Schneider: Your calm message to me is a relief compared to what others say, and I would like to expand on what I wrote. First, in one of our other message exchanges you pointed out that ver.1.1.3 of OOo did not have to be upgraded, unless there was a specific reason or if I liked to have bleeding edge software. Well, the same applies to SuSe 9.2 Pro, I would hope, and for the same reasons I have tried to calmly point out, first, I am NOT a programmer and secondly I am on a fixed income and, despite several individuals pointing out all the "free" programing that is done, IT MUST BE REMEMBERED THAT SUSE SELLS,not gives, its program away!!! I can say, for now, that I have NO bugs, so far, other than the problem of trying to figure out why, no matter who gives me help on untaring, SuSe will NOT respond as predicted! I have run into a problem with kmymoney rpm not wanting to install, as of yesterday, which downloaded and tried to install with YAST, to no avail. It simply does not install, or show where it might be installed, as far as I know. Which is what I have been trying to say in ALL my messages. Suse DOES NOT give any help worth a darn, and only through this SLE message board have I gotten any help that I can understand. :-( Ken Schneider wrote:
On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 13:17 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Monday 13 June 2005 01:10 pm, OldSarge wrote:
To All: I do not know how most of you feel, but, instead of worrying about SuSe desupporting any version of same, maybe it is time to "desupport" any new versions , to include 9.3, until they get ALL the bugs out and people have time TO MAKE FULL USE OF WHAT VERSION THEY HAVE!!!!! :-)
Some people can never make *any* release work. Others have no problem.
Perhaps there's something unique about your hardware or situation.
(from a user who has *never* had major problems with an SuSE release - - now on 9.3 on 5 machines)
I agree with Bruce that it may be some piece of hardware that you are using. Since you don't mention any specific problem we cannot be of any help to you. Simply screeming on this list will not help in solving your problem. I find 9.3 to be the best to date, the first release to fully support all of my hardware.
On Monday 13 June 2005 03:17 pm, OldSarge wrote:
To Mr. Schneider: Your calm message to me is a relief compared to what others say, and I would like to expand on what I wrote. First, in one of our other message exchanges you pointed out that ver.1.1.3 of OOo did not have to be upgraded, unless there was a specific reason or if I liked to have bleeding edge software. Well, the same applies to SuSe 9.2 Pro, I would hope, and for the same reasons I have tried to calmly point out, first, I am NOT a programmer and secondly I am on a fixed income and, despite several individuals pointing out all the "free" programing that is done, IT MUST BE REMEMBERED THAT SUSE SELLS,not gives, its program away!!!
1) It's not SuSE's program... it is Open Source Software. What you are paying for is the time and effort SuSE puts into PACKAGING the source obtained from other sources. 2) The vast amount of any bugs you may find are a) not of SuSE's making and b) well beyond the resources of SuSE to fix. Apparently you only have a vague idea of what OSS is.
I can say, for now, that I have NO bugs, so far, other than the problem of trying to figure out why, no matter who gives me help on untaring, SuSe will NOT respond as predicted!
Jeez.... untarring is basic 101 in Linux. It is not rocket science. I think the tar command is the least of your problems.
I have run into a problem with kmymoney rpm not wanting to install, as of yesterday, which downloaded and tried to install with YAST, to no avail.
Still not SuSE's problem
It simply does not install, or show where it might be installed, as far as I know.
Where did you get the rpm file?
Which is what I have been trying to say in ALL my messages. Suse DOES NOT give any help worth a darn, and only through this SLE message board have I gotten any help that I can understand. :-(:-(
You are getting all the help you have paid for. SuSE does not charge enough for its package to provide hand-holding to every little misunderstanding its users might have. Sorry to be so blunt, but you aren't pulling any punches on your end so I feel my attitude is justified in this case.
On Monday 13 June 2005 13:10, OldSarge wrote:
To All: I do not know how most of you feel, but, instead of worrying about SuSe desupporting any version of same, maybe it is time to "desupport" any new versions , to include 9.3, until they get ALL the bugs out
There is no such thing as software absent any bugs.
and people have time TO MAKE FULL USE OF WHAT VERSION THEY HAVE!!!!! :-)
There is nothing to prevent you from using your software for as long as you would like. That is one of the bast parts of FOSS. When Novell/SUSE decides to stop officially supporting a specific version of their software _YOU_ have the option to upgrade and/or to continue to use _YOUR_ software while supporting it yourself. In other words, patch vulnerabilities yourself. As for the way I feel... Well, I respect the work of others, especially those that do not get paid for their imagination and hard work. And I would never disrespect them by sending such a pathetic e-mail to a public list -- unless of course, I've contributed better code to a project and that code was ignored by the respective developer. Have you submitted better code to fix any of the bugs for which you are complaining??? Feel free to identify a specific bug in SUSE 9.3 and post the patch that you've created to fix that bug. -- Christopher Shanahan
On Monday 13 June 2005 13:10, OldSarge wrote:
To All: I do not know how most of you feel, but, instead of worrying about SuSe desupporting any version of same, maybe it is time to "desupport" any new versions , to include 9.3, until they get ALL the bugs out and people have time TO MAKE FULL USE OF WHAT VERSION THEY HAVE!!!!! :-)
Hi OldSarge, Maybe you should take the advice of this insightful individual who posted this not too long ago: /* To the List: Actually buying and installing ANY version of Linux is the major goal of all on this list, I hope! But, when a distro has problems, instead of just bad mouthing it, people should ask for help!!.....I am NOT upgrading from 9.2 to 9.3, simply because I have not mastered 9.2, which has a great deal to it! I do NOT understand how to untar no matter who gives me information on how to, for instance, and there are some minor upgrades that are tar that I would like to use and can't. So, is that the distro's fault? NO! I think, though, it would be nice if some of those who begrudge the neophytes attempts to learn and ask, would keep their fingers off the key board unless they have some CONSTRUCTIVE words to say!!!!! */ Oh wait.....this quote is from one of YOUR postings. http://lists.suse.com/archive/suse-linux-e/2005-May/3934.html ];X Regards, Ken
To Mr. Columbo: So what is wrong with the quote? What you and too many others do NOT understand is that most users are NOT programmers and it is really ridiculous to act otherwise! :-) columbo wrote:
On Monday 13 June 2005 13:10, OldSarge wrote:
To All: I do not know how most of you feel, but, instead of worrying about SuSe desupporting any version of same, maybe it is time to "desupport" any new versions , to include 9.3, until they get ALL the bugs out and people have time TO MAKE FULL USE OF WHAT VERSION THEY HAVE!!!!! :-)
Hi OldSarge,
Maybe you should take the advice of this insightful individual who posted this not too long ago:
/* To the List: Actually buying and installing ANY version of Linux is the major goal of all on this list, I hope! But, when a distro has problems, instead of just bad mouthing it, people should ask for help!!.....I am NOT upgrading from 9.2 to 9.3, simply because I have not mastered 9.2, which has a great deal to it! I do NOT understand how to untar no matter who gives me information on how to, for instance, and there are some minor upgrades that are tar that I would like to use and can't. So, is that the distro's fault? NO! I think, though, it would be nice if some of those who begrudge the neophytes attempts to learn and ask, would keep their fingers off the key board unless they have some CONSTRUCTIVE words to say!!!!! */
Oh wait.....this quote is from one of YOUR postings.
http://lists.suse.com/archive/suse-linux-e/2005-May/3934.html
];X
Regards,
Ken
On Monday 13 June 2005 21:02, OldSarge wrote:
To Mr. Columbo: So what is wrong with the quote?
Hi John, I think Columbo was saying live as you preach Users have expectations, and it's only right that they should voice their concerns and requests for future features. But shouting "boycott" is just confrontational. If you have issues, then by all means bring them out, but if you just send a mail screaming and ranting, people will just take it as a troll and either get upset or simply ignore it. Politeness pays The latest version of suse pro contains the latest versions of the software packages (with a few exceptions). And the bleeding edge will almost always have problems. It is a tradeoff. Do you want the latest and greatest, or do you want stability. The two are almost always mutually exclusive. They don't have to be, but I dare you to show me any software on any OS where it isn't true. If you want stability, you have to stay a few releases behind the bleeding edge. Use the versions that have been out long enough to have the kinks worked out. It's the way software works everywhere. It is also the major idea behind products such as SLES (and RHES, and Debian Stable, and...) Also note that you have something like two years to get "full use" out of the version you have. No one is forcing you to upgrade. I do it because I like to get the new features, but I am fully prepared for the fact that the ride can be a little bumpy at times. But with something like 3000+ packages in the distro, running on god knows how many hardware combinations, I think the shock absorbers are working pretty well.
On Monday 13 June 2005 15:02, OldSarge wrote:
To Mr. Columbo: So what is wrong with the quote? What you and too many others do NOT understand is that most users are NOT programmers and it is really ridiculous to act otherwise! :-)
Hi OldSarge, It appears that in your previous email you chastised two groups of people. New users (for blaming everything that went wrong on the distro) and old hacks (for not being patient with new users). I agree with both those assertions to a certain extent. In this current post, though, you are taking your frustration out on the distro and condemning it without informing the list as to what your major malfunction is at this time. It appears that you are undercutting what you previously stated. My suggestion, at this point, is to follow your own advice and ask for help. Identify your system as completely as possible (distro, version, desktop used, kernel version, etc., etc.) and as much depth as possible in the issues encountered (symptoms, current status, error msg's, etc., etc.). Ask, ask, and ask. The longer the thread the more complete the information is for any others who may be experiencing the same issues. By the way, I'm no programmer either. I hack along just like you do. Regards, Ken (Using Suse 9.3 with no apparent issues at this time)
On Friday, My Suse 9.3 loaded into a grey screen with the Suse Lizard on it. My only option is to login, so I did. Once I logged in, I cannot reboot or shutdown the computer with out using a term window. The only option is to log off wich brings me back to the grey screen. I was told by a friend who had the same problem that it is the TWM login screen. We both just reloaded our machines, which becomes a hassal. I am very new to the linux world and Suse and would like to know what to do in the future if this was to happen again. I use Gnome desktop. Also, my desktop picture changed. Could my system do that our have been Hacked????? Any input will be helpful. --- columbo <columbo@wowway.com> wrote:
On Monday 13 June 2005 15:02, OldSarge wrote:
To Mr. Columbo: So what is wrong with the quote? What you and too many others do NOT understand is that most users are NOT programmers and it is really ridiculous to act otherwise! :-)
Hi OldSarge,
It appears that in your previous email you chastised two groups of people. New users (for blaming everything that went wrong on the distro) and old hacks (for not being patient with new users). I agree with both those assertions to a certain extent.
In this current post, though, you are taking your frustration out on the distro and condemning it without informing the list as to what your major malfunction is at this time. It appears that you are undercutting what you previously stated.
My suggestion, at this point, is to follow your own advice and ask for help. Identify your system as completely as possible (distro, version, desktop used, kernel version, etc., etc.) and as much depth as possible in the issues encountered (symptoms, current status, error msg's, etc., etc.). Ask, ask, and ask. The longer the thread the more complete the information is for any others who may be experiencing the same issues.
By the way, I'm no programmer either. I hack along just like you do.
Regards,
Ken
(Using Suse 9.3 with no apparent issues at this time)
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On Monday 13 June 2005 22:41, Clinton Post wrote:
On Friday, My Suse 9.3 loaded into a grey screen with the Suse Lizard on it. My only option is to login, so I did. Once I logged in, I cannot reboot or shutdown the computer with out using a term window. The only option is to log off wich brings me back to the grey screen. I was told by a friend who had the same problem that it is the TWM login screen.
No, it's the xdm login screen. twm is a window manager, it doesn't have a login screen Have a look at http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/search/searchtid.cgi?/en/2005/04/dregen_xd...
Also, my desktop picture changed. Could my system do that our have been Hacked?????
It seems unlikely. What did it change to?
Clinton Post wrote:
On Friday, My Suse 9.3 loaded into a grey screen with the Suse Lizard on it. My only option is to login, so I did. Once I logged in, I cannot reboot or shutdown the computer with out using a term window. The only option is to log off wich brings me back to the grey screen. I was told by a friend who had the same problem that it is the TWM login screen. We both just reloaded our machines, which becomes a hassal. I am very new to the linux world and Suse and would like to know what to do in the future if this was to happen again. I use Gnome desktop.
Also, my desktop picture changed. Could my system do that our have been Hacked?????
Any input will be helpful.
I had a similar problem for awhile right after an install and managed to fix it (I think). I wish I could tell you how I fixed it, but I really don't know. I just started wading through the init scripts and config files, changing things here and there, until I could get it to work consistently. Solving the problem is exacerbated by the fact that (it seems to me) suse tries to fix things by itself and changes the configuration files; these "fixes" would undo the changes I made in the scripts and config files and bring the problem back again. This just goes to the point that there's probably not one small thing to do to fix the problem; rather, it's likely that there's a few problems. What video card do you have (make and model)? Do you have the correct driver loaded? Can you correctly configure your video card with yast2? (yast2 can be run from a console if, as it seems, you can't get into X.) (yast2 can't correctly configure my video card, an ATI Radeon 9000. So I had to configure this manually in /etc/X11/xorg. You might have to do something similar.) Do you have a file called "/usr/X11R6/bin/gnome"? If so, look for a line which starts "DEFAULT_WM=" in /etc/sysconfig/windowmanager; this should be set to "gnome" (if, as you say, you wish to run the gnome window manager). There's probably a few other things which need to be worked out, but this is a start and, who knows, may fix your problem. Finally, yes, fixing the problem you have might require digging into some of the thicker parts of the OS and understanding shell and init scripts. You might need some pretty good problem-solving skills... probably all of this. If you're not ready for this and the few tips I've provided don't help, you might want to switch to a different distribution. Mandrake/Mandriva is pretty good. In fact, if I can't solve my reboot hanging pretty soon, I might go back to Mandrake myself. hth.
[....]
-- A lot of us are working harder than we want, at things we don't like to do. Why? ...In order to afford the sort of existence we don't care to live. -- Bradford Angier
On Tuesday 14 June 2005 19:36, ken wrote:
Finally, yes, fixing the problem you have might require digging into some of the thicker parts of the OS and understanding shell and init scripts. You might need some pretty good problem-solving skills... probably all of this. If you're not ready for this and the few tips I've provided don't help, you might want to switch to a different distribution.
What the hell are you talking about? It's a one line fix that's been gone over a thousand times on this list.
Mandrake/Mandriva is pretty good. In fact, if I can't solve my reboot hanging pretty soon, I might go back to Mandrake myself.
That's very good. I can't see any other mail at all from you on this list about a reboot problem. Perhaps you'd like to actually ask the list about your problem before complaining that it doesn't work.
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:29:34 -0400 columbo <columbo@wowway.com> quoted:
To the List: Actually buying and installing ANY version of Linux is the major goal of all on this list, I hope! But, when a distro has problems, instead of just bad mouthing it, people should ask for help!!
But where and how can people "ask for help" ? At about the time I updated from SuSE 9.2 to SuSE 9.3, all functions involving GNOME stopped working. The symptom common to all this is the error message (all on one line): | symbol lookup error: /opt/gnome/lib/libglade-2.0.so.0: | undefined symbol: gtk_about_dialog_get_type I posted my problem to this list. I got only one responder, who was able to clear a similar problem by re-installing Gtk. Well, I've reinstalled (from the 9.3 DVD) every package I can think of, and nothing helps. [I'm wondering if the 9.3 DVD I got is different from other people's. I ordered mine through SuSE.] I also emailed the developers, but got no answer. I had my reasons for doing an upgrade of SuSE from 9.2 to 9.3. If I am forced to do a reinstall from scratch, I'm thinking of using another distribution than SuSE -- I'm THAT disappointed. mikus
Mikus Grinbergs wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:29:34 -0400 columbo <columbo@wowway.com> quoted:
To the List: Actually buying and installing ANY version of Linux is the major goal of all on this list, I hope! But, when a distro has problems, instead of just bad mouthing it, people should ask for help!!
But where and how can people "ask for help" ?
At about the time I updated from SuSE 9.2 to SuSE 9.3, all functions involving GNOME stopped working. The symptom common to all this is the error message (all on one line):
| symbol lookup error: /opt/gnome/lib/libglade-2.0.so.0: | undefined symbol: gtk_about_dialog_get_type
I posted my problem to this list. I got only one responder, who was able to clear a similar problem by re-installing Gtk. Well, I've reinstalled (from the 9.3 DVD) every package I can think of, and nothing helps. [I'm wondering if the 9.3 DVD I got is different from other people's. I ordered mine through SuSE.] I also emailed the developers, but got no answer.
I had my reasons for doing an upgrade of SuSE from 9.2 to 9.3. If I am forced to do a reinstall from scratch, I'm thinking of using another distribution than SuSE -- I'm THAT disappointed.
mikus
Freedom of choice is one of the beautiful things about Linux. Perhaps emailing a list more familiar with Gnome and it's inner workings would help you more then mailing a huge list with an immensely diverse range of interests. You mentioned you wrote the developers. Which developers? The Gnome developers? The SuSE developers? Which developers? The thing is, there IS someone out there who knows what this error message means, and simply because that person didn't see your needle in this haystack, doesn't mean they don't exist and help is not available. Try mailing a Gnome mailing list and see if you don't get better results. -- Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ jordan@viviotech.net
On Tuesday 14 June 2005 00:55, Mikus Grinbergs wrote:
common to all this is the error message (all on one line): | symbol lookup error: /opt/gnome/lib/libglade-2.0.so.0: | undefined symbol: gtk_about_dialog_get_type
I posted my problem to this list. I got only one responder, who was able to clear a similar problem by re-installing Gtk. Well, I've reinstalled (from the 9.3 DVD) every package I can think of, and nothing helps. [I'm wondering if the 9.3 DVD I got is different from other people's. I ordered mine through SuSE.] I also emailed the developers, but got no answer.
The symbol is defined in the library libgtk-x11-2.0.so, which is provided by the package gtk2 You might want to run rpm -qa --qf "%{NAME} %{DISTRIBUTION}\n"|grep -v 9.3 and see if there are any packages from previous versions hanging around. That could mess things up.
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:55:10 -0500, you wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:29:34 -0400 columbo <columbo@wowway.com> quoted:
To the List: Actually buying and installing ANY version of Linux is the major goal of all on this list, I hope! But, when a distro has problems, instead of just bad mouthing it, people should ask for help!!
But where and how can people "ask for help" ?
At about the time I updated from SuSE 9.2 to SuSE 9.3, all functions involving GNOME stopped working. The symptom common to all this is the error message (all on one line):
| symbol lookup error: /opt/gnome/lib/libglade-2.0.so.0: | undefined symbol: gtk_about_dialog_get_type
I posted my problem to this list. I got only one responder, who was able to clear a similar problem by re-installing Gtk. Well, I've reinstalled (from the 9.3 DVD) every package I can think of, and nothing helps. [I'm wondering if the 9.3 DVD I got is different from other people's. I ordered mine through SuSE.] I also emailed the developers, but got no answer.
I had my reasons for doing an upgrade of SuSE from 9.2 to 9.3. If I am forced to do a reinstall from scratch, I'm thinking of using another distribution than SuSE -- I'm THAT disappointed.
Well, get used to the feeling because the odds are very good that you'll encounter it with whatever distro you switch to. There's a reason why most people recommend against upgrading as opposed to a reinstall. Why do people come in here and ask advice, do the exact OPPOSITE of the advice they're given, then bitch and whine when whatever they did doesn't work? BTW - your specific problem is that some program (can't tell which one from that error message) was written to a particular version of libglade, and you don't have that version of libglade on your system. You need to either recompile the problem program or install the correct libglade. I don't use gnome so I can't tell you much more. Mike- -- Mornings: Evolution in action. Only the grumpy will survive. -- Please note - Due to the intense volume of spam, we have installed site-wide spam filters at catherders.com. If email from you bounces, try non-HTML, non-encoded, non-attachments.
On Monday 13 June 2005 10:10 am, OldSarge wrote:
To All: I do not know how most of you feel, but, instead of worrying about SuSe desupporting any version of same, maybe it is time to "desupport" any new versions , to include 9.3, until they get ALL the bugs out and people have time TO MAKE FULL USE OF WHAT VERSION THEY HAVE!!!!! :-)
SuSE 9.3 is looking real good from here. I had a couple of minor issues since I decided to 'upgrade' from 9.2 rather than fresh install, but those were quickly resolved with help from this list and 9.3 is rock solid here. I don't see it as broken or bug ridden at all. Scott -- POPFile, the OpenSource EMail Classifier http://popfile.sourceforge.net/ Linux 2.6.11.4-21.7-default x86_64
participants (12)
-
Anders Johansson -
Bruce Marshall -
Christopher Shanahan -
Clinton Post -
columbo -
Jordan Michaels -
ken -
Ken Schneider -
Michael W Cocke -
mikus＠bga.com -
OldSarge -
Scott Leighton